Stephen Harper in his own words

[Saturn]

I came across some great quotes from Steve, so I just have to share them with his supporters here:

"It's legendary that if you're like all Americans, you know almost nothing except for your own country. Which makes you probably knowledgeable about one more country than most Canadians."

- Conservative leader Stephen Harper, then vice-president of the National Citizens Coalition, in a June 1997 Montreal meeting of the Council for National Policy, a right-wing American think tank.

"I don't know all the facts on Iraq, but I think we should work closely with the Americans."

- Stephen Harper, Report Newsmagazine, March 25th 2002.

"This party will not take its position based on public opinion polls. We will not take a stand based on focus groups. We will not take a stand based on phone-in shows or householder surveys or any other vagaries of pubic opinion... In my judgment Canada will eventually join with the allied coalition if war on Iraq comes to pass. The government will join, notwithstanding its failure to prepare, its neglect in co-operating with its allies, or its inability to contribute. In the end it will join out of the necessity created by a pattern of uncertainty and indecision. It will not join as a leader but unnoticed at the back of the parade."

- Stephen Harper indicating that, if elected, Canada will join the US occupation of Iraq, Hansard, January 29th 2003.

"I do not intend to dispute in any way the need for defence cuts and the need for government spending cuts in general. …I do not share a not in my backyard approach to government spending reductions."

- Stephen Harper, Hansard, May 23rd 1995.

"It is imperative to take the initiative, to build firewalls around Alberta... "

- Stephen Harper in an "Open letter to Ralph Klein," January 24th 2001.

"It was probably not an appropriate term, but we support the war effort and believe we should be supporting our troops and our allies and be there with them doing everything necessary to win."

- Stephen Harper supporting the US-lead war on Iraq, Montreal Gazette, April 2nd 2003. Harper also called then-Defence Minister John McCallum an "idiot."

And here's Stockwell being brilliant and eloquent as usual:

"Homosexuality is a mental disorder that can be cured through counselling."

- Stockwell Day, February of 1992, quoted in Alberta Report.

"I would expect the support of the party no matter what happens... even if I were to kill my grandmother with an axe."

- Then-Alliance leader Stockwell Day, according to various MPs, June 2001.

"I want to know how many women in Alberta are physically battered and not just insulted by their husbands... If we talk insulted by their husbands, then I'm afraid that I'm guilty from time to time of abusing my wife."

- Stockwell Day, 1987, disputing a poll indicating one million women had been abused physically, emotionally, sexually or economically.

[August1991]

So what.

Tommy Douglas: "Instead of treating [homosexuality] as a crime and driving it underground we ought to recognize it for what it is. It's a mental illness; it's a psychiatric condition which ought to be treated sympathetically, which ought to be treated by psychiatrists and social workers."

----

The Douglas quote is truly frightening because it reflects the social engineering (solve the "root causes") and "fad of the decade" approach of the Left.

In 1968, Tommy Douglas wanted to "help" homosexuals and change them. In 2006, Jack Layton wants to "help" people and change them.

[mikedavid00]

I came across some great quotes from Steve, so I just have to share them with his supporters here:

He's said MUCH worse than that. Especially in the 70's when he was very anti-French and against 2 languages in Canada.

He used to support private healthcare, all the classic reform things. I'm sure he's called the US a 'better' country than ours. I'm almost sure he's said something like that way back.

He used to be a political stratagist in a previous life.

[mikedavid00]

The Douglas quote is truly frightening because it reflects the social engineering (solve the "root causes") and "fad of the decade" approach of the Left.

I completely agree. It's frightening to me too.

Remember Jean Charest "every young person should be working, in school, or doing community service!".

I was a teen at that time. Even that young I was like 'how can he tell us what we should be doing each day. He shouldn't have the right'?

[Saturn]

So what.

Tommy Douglas: "Instead of treating [homosexuality] as a crime and driving it underground we ought to recognize it for what it is. It's a mental illness; it's a psychiatric condition which ought to be treated sympathetically, which ought to be treated by psychiatrists and social workers."

----

The Douglas quote is truly frightening because it reflects the social engineering (solve the "root causes") and "fad of the decade" approach of the Left.

In 1968, Tommy Douglas wanted to "help" homosexuals and change them. In 2006, Jack Layton wants to "help" people and change them.

That's 1968 vs 1992. What's really frightening is when a conservative minister and former leader of the party in power is quarter century behind the times. Insulting his wife from time to time and expecting support from the party even if he killed his grandmother with an axe is more evidence that the minister is a lunatic.

[Saturn]

I completely agree. It's frightening to me too.

Remember Jean Charest "every young person should be working, in school, or doing community service!".

I was a teen at that time. Even that young I was like 'how can he tell us what we should be doing each day. He shouldn't have the right'?

No, nobody should be able to tell you that you cannot be a parasite.

[Ricki Bobbi]

That's 1968 vs 1992. What's really frightening is when a conservative minister and former leader of the party in power is quarter century behind the times. Insulting his wife from time to time and expecting support from the party even if he killed his grandmother with an axe is more evidence that the minister is a lunatic.

So a 38 year old quote is off limits but a 14 year old quote isn't?

Where's the line? 20 years? 25? 30?

If you don't like Harper that's fair. But when you get exposed for being as biased as you are lick your wounds and call it a day.

What are you talking about in the last part of your post?

[Riverwind]

Tommy Douglas: "Instead of treating [homosexuality] as a crime and driving it underground we ought to recognize it for what it is. It's a mental illness; it's a psychiatric condition which ought to be treated sympathetically, which ought to be treated by psychiatrists and social workers."

Tommy's opinion at the time was considered extremely progressive in an era where most people treated homosexuals as criminals. But time has moved on. There was a time when medical doctors thought high blood pressure was a sign of good health. If a doctor made such a statement today he would be dismissed as an idiot. IOW - quotations must always be taken in context.

[gc1765]

So what.

Tommy Douglas: "Instead of treating [homosexuality] as a crime and driving it underground we ought to recognize it for what it is. It's a mental illness; it's a psychiatric condition which ought to be treated sympathetically, which ought to be treated by psychiatrists and social workers."

At least Tommy's quote was a step forward. At the time, homosexuality was illegal (or very recently legalized?). He was suggesting that it should be legal, not a huge step forward, but a small step forward.

When Stockwell day said it in 1992, it was a step backward. By that time, it was legal, and most people would recognize that it's not a "mental illness".

If Abraham Lincoln abolished slavery, but did not give blacks the right to vote, should he be criticized or regarded as a hero? Lincoln made a (big) step forward, but he didn't go all the way. Should we still criticize him for not giving blacks the right to vote? (hypothetically speaking, who knows what he would have done if he lived longer)

[sharkman]

We all know what Jack's got on HIS MIND!

He should really stop undressing Harper though.

[Jean_Poutine]

I came across some great quotes from Steve, so I just have to share them with his supporters here:

"It's legendary that if you're like all Americans, you know almost nothing except for your own country. Which makes you probably knowledgeable about one more country than most Canadians."

- Conservative leader Stephen Harper, then vice-president of the National Citizens Coalition, in a June 1997 Montreal meeting of the Council for National Policy, a right-wing American think tank.

I suspect that that was delivered as a joke. It was probably taking what is true in some cases, and using it as a little self deprecating humor.

"I don't know all the facts on Iraq, but I think we should work closely with the Americans."

- Stephen Harper, Report Newsmagazine, March 25th 2002.

We should work with the Americans where it makes sense. They are our neighbors, close ally, and by far our largest trading partner. For millions of people on each side of the border, the relationship between the two countries is literally that of family or friends. So, I can understand why many want to work with Americans. That doesn't mean we should go along with everything, but some Canadians also need to get over their insecurity when it comes to the US.

"This party will not take its position based on public opinion polls. We will not take a stand based on focus groups. We will not take a stand based on phone-in shows or householder surveys or any other vagaries of pubic opinion... In my judgment Canada will eventually join with the allied coalition if war on Iraq comes to pass. The government will join, notwithstanding its failure to prepare, its neglect in co-operating with its allies, or its inability to contribute. In the end it will join out of the necessity created by a pattern of uncertainty and indecision. It will not join as a leader but unnoticed at the back of the parade."

- Stephen Harper indicating that, if elected, Canada will join the US occupation of Iraq, Hansard, January 29th 2003.

Here, I think one must be aware of partisan politics. For example, when the Liberals were in power, they used surplus to pay down debt, and the opposition pressured them to do other things with it. Now that the Conservatives are in power, they're using it to pay down debt, and the Liberals are pressuring them to do other things with it. The opposition party will almost always challenge the position of the party in power even if they'd do the same thing. It's the nature of the beast.

However, you'll notice that he talks about inability to contribute. Canada was already in Afghanistan, and it's no secret that military options were limited thanks to cuts in the budget. Therefore, I'd argue that it was more about pressuring the party in power.

"I do not intend to dispute in any way the need for defence cuts and the need for government spending cuts in general. …I do not share a not in my backyard approach to government spending reductions."

- Stephen Harper, Hansard, May 23rd 1995.

Context is important. If I recall correctly, the first surplus was in 1996. The cuts he refers to in that quote were to eliminate the deficit. However, the government has since had a decade of surplus, and only years later were the Liberals willing to restore less than half of what they cut.

[Argus]

I came across some great quotes from Steve, so I just have to share them with his supporters here:

He's said MUCH worse than that. Especially in the 70's when he was very anti-French and against 2 languages in Canada

Cite? What did Harper say that was "anti-French"? When was he against "two languages in canada" or do you even have any idea what you're talking about?

[kimmy]

It must be a slow news day if we're recycling the Liberals' campaign material from the 2004 election.

-k

{checking out the window to see if any "Team Martin" signs have sprung up overnight.}

[margrace]

Back when homosexuality was illegal the inventer of the computer was put in jail and treated with some sort of hormone shots, it changed him so much he committed suicide. This was his reword. Don't be so quck to make judgments. He was a mathematical genious and we lost a lot.

This was on the noon show Quirks and Quarks a science based show.

[sharkman]

Back when homosexuality was illegal the inventer of the computer was put in jail and treated with some sort of hormone shots, it changed him so much he committed suicide. This was his reword. Don't be so quck to make judgments. He was a mathematical genious and we lost a lot.

This was on the noon show Quirks and Quarks a science based show.

Did they offer any evidence of this? Any proof that his suicide was connected to his treatment?

[Saturn]

That's 1968 vs 1992. What's really frightening is when a conservative minister and former leader of the party in power is quarter century behind the times. Insulting his wife from time to time and expecting support from the party even if he killed his grandmother with an axe is more evidence that the minister is a lunatic.

So a 38 year old quote is off limits but a 14 year old quote isn't?

Where's the line? 20 years? 25? 30?

If you don't like Harper that's fair. But when you get exposed for being as biased as you are lick your wounds and call it a day.

What are you talking about in the last part of your post?

Yes, a 38-year-old quote suggesting that smoking may be harmful (when it was widely believed that it was not) is off limits and a 14-year-old quote saying that smoking is not harmful (when everyone knew it was) is not.

The last part of my post quotes Day himself. I take it you didn't even read the quotes in the OP.

"But when you get exposed for being as biased as you are lick your wounds and call it a day." That would make good advise for both Harper and Day.

[Saturn]

We all know what Jack's got on HIS MIND!

He should really stop undressing Harper though.

I'm sure Harper's comment on how stupid Canadians are and Day's comment on insulting his wife were just due to mispronunciation.

[kimmy]

Back when homosexuality was illegal the inventer of the computer was put in jail and treated with some sort of hormone shots, it changed him so much he committed suicide. This was his reword. Don't be so quck to make judgments. He was a mathematical genious and we lost a lot.

This was on the noon show Quirks and Quarks a science based show.

Did they offer any evidence of this? Any proof that his suicide was connected to his treatment?

She speaks of Alan Turing, whose skills in cryptography and code-breaking for Britain during World War 2 might qualify him as something of a war hero. While the claim that he invented the computer seems to be hyperbole, he seems to have contributed a great deal to the field of information theory and computer programming.

On his death:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing#P...uring.27s_death

-k

[Saturn]

Back when homosexuality was illegal the inventer of the computer was put in jail and treated with some sort of hormone shots, it changed him so much he committed suicide. This was his reword. Don't be so quck to make judgments. He was a mathematical genious and we lost a lot.

This was on the noon show Quirks and Quarks a science based show.

Did they offer any evidence of this? Any proof that his suicide was connected to his treatment?

She speaks of Alan Turing, whose skills in cryptography and code-breaking for Britain during World War 2 might qualify him as something of a war hero. While the claim that he invented the computer seems to be hyperbole, he seems to have contributed a great deal to the field of information theory and computer programming.

On his death:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing#P...uring.27s_death

-k

He is not the inventor of the computer but he was the most brilliant person in the field and contributed enormously to it. His very premature death was a great loss to all of us and it occurred because some conservative fanatics would rather kill people than have them be any different from what their narrow-minded definition of normal is.

[Canuck E Stan]

What's really frightening is when a conservative minister and former leader of the party in power is quarter century behind the times.

What's frightening is the Liberal leader who wants power to run Canada, couldn't decide to back Canada in a referendum,and presently is loyal to two countries, and.... was a former Separatist. We can't forgive him for that, can we?

Dion has said that his involvement as "an activist for the separatist cause" ended during a five-hour, rum-and-coke fueled discussion with a federalist household while he was going door-to-door for the PQ, but he did not openly commit to federalism until much later. At the time of the 1980 referendum, his sentiments were neutral. In his own words, the 'no' victory left him "neither moved nor outraged. To tell the truth, I sensed no particular feeling." ("Moi, je ne me sentais ni ému ni révolté. À vrai dire, je n'éprouvais aucun sentiment particulier.")[4]

Stephane_Dion#Early_life

.......and drinking excessive alcohol can change his mind. Woo, that's some kind of leader.

And let's not forget Jack Layton,when he accussed Martin of killing homeless people.

Layton criticized for homeless comments

"Deaths due to homelessness in this city took a rapid rise immediately after Paul Martin cancelled the affordable housing program, and their names stand in testimony to the neglect that has been rained on our city," Layton said.

Scarey stuff, coming from the mouths of politicians,on our streets, in our cities, in our Canada.

At least I can be sure you never changed your opinion on anything......or have you?

[Ricki Bobbi]

What's frightening is the Liberal leader who wants power to run Canada, couldn't decide to back Canada in a referendum,and presently is loyal to two countries, and.... was a former Separatist. We can't forgive him for that, can we?

Of course we should forgive him of that. He is after all Quebecois and a Liberal. It's only Conservatives that should be held up to a higher standard if you ask the likes of Saturn...

[Saturn]

"Deaths due to homelessness in this city took a rapid rise immediately after Paul Martin cancelled the affordable housing program, and their names stand in testimony to the neglect that has been rained on our city," Layton said.

Scarey stuff, coming from the mouths of politicians,on our streets, in our cities, in our Canada.

At least I can be sure you never changed your opinion on anything......or have you?

Well, it may be scary and unpleasant but the truth isn't always pretty. Are you somehow shocked that there would be more homeless people freezing in the streets when housing programs are canceled? Would you be shocked if more people die of treatable disease if health-care programs are canceled?

[Saturn]

Of course we should forgive him of that. He is after all Quebecois and a Liberal. It's only Conservatives that should be held up to a higher standard if you ask the likes of Saturn...

I expect very little of the Conservatives. Or the Liberals for that matter. But when they claim that they are the warriors of clean government, democracy, etc. I expect them to not do the exact opposite. Their mouths and their actions should agree at least once in a while.

[Canadian Blue]

Trudeau said alot of crazy things in his youth as well.

I hate debating over a bunch of quotes taken out of context since all it is, is partisan bashing at its worst.

Maybe we should have a debate over actual issues instead of what some person said or wrote that was no more than two sentences. I'm sure every politician has said something which can be considered extreme.

[stignasty]

Trudeau said alot of crazy things in his youth as well.

I hate debating over a bunch of quotes taken out of context since all it is, is partisan bashing at its worst.

Maybe we should have a debate over actual issues instead of what some person said or wrote that was no more than two sentences. I'm sure every politician has said something which can be considered extreme.

That's a good thought. Of course it wouldn't apply to this thread alone. I'm thinking of the Dion = Kerry garbage, but I'm sure there are many other similar threads.