What do you believe?

[DarkAngel_]

i put this as a reply to be honest, but it had a 'new topic' feel.

this is my scientific basis for the creation of everything in its complexity,

(its complicated, and most likely wrong)

where ever a space exists, something must exist in it, whether it be black emptiness, or a galaxy of stars. that in universal intelligence is a binding between what there is, and can be, and that as a universal language, only the most basic form of energy can be arranged freely or communicated with the same meaning, so in my theory, that something comes from the organization of energy into matter in space, as an event of change or perpetual motion occures, as energy, causes chain reactions to change the energy outside of it to form into strings or 1 dimensional lines of energy, and as the effect reacts with other energy, it creates similar strings in effect that link together. this is a "downward spiral" and is a form of chaos, or destabilization in 'inert' energy, as an effect then takes place and branches off, it becomes a little different each time, and as the variety grows the interaction of these strings become more susceptible to an effect or result, in that effect it also damages or changes other strings and branches the matrix into 'Y' or a split between 1 energy into 2.

the points between matrixes are 1 dimensional, and i do not know the math on it, but any 2 points together i believe make a 0 dimensional point in space, so as this spiral of energy collapses it turns those points into matter, that as the reaction broadens may have some how branched the matrix into a totally different form of matter, until of course, many kinds of matter are expanded in their properties, and as the change was so huge the matter that was changed from energy, is then capable of its own atomic properties, and so then can interact, changing and bonding with the other forms of matter to make molecules, which then do the same to form raw elements, that once put into those reactions and interactions cause effects in organization, and the reaction becomes more elemental, as in chemistry, and like the event that originally took place, the reorganized forms of chemicals form together and hold the events of this chaos and reorganize, then as larger objects that all fit and fall into place hence making other parts in the shape of a "downward spiral" or "DNA" that store this information chemically and reorganize that material into a working matrix, our human form.

the 'energy string matrixing' theory ...gotta love it.

maybe god did make us in his image...

hence the universe is our sculptor.

what do you think of it? and what is your belief?

[cybercoma]

maybe god did make us in his image...

hence the universe is our sculptor.

what do you think of it? and what is your belief?

Einsteinian God -- the universe -- is not God in the sense of religion, where an entity lives in the sky answering prayers.

[DarkAngel_]

maybe god did make us in his image...

hence the universe is our sculptor.

what do you think of it? and what is your belief?

Einsteinian God -- the universe -- is not God in the sense of religion, where an entity lives in the sky answering prayers.

as metaphor, the universe is our carver so in a sense others may call it 'god'.

i am atheist and would agree, but i love man too much to just say he is wrong, so would you not speak to their pride instead of against it? it is the way we find truth, help me out: what is your truth and THE truth.

i told you my possible truth, but indeed i look and see that what is so, is so, and in turn is my reality. the truth is whats in front of me.

also i reformed my theory:

where ever a space exists, something must exist in it, whether it be black emptiness, or a galaxy of stars. that in universal intelligence is a binding between what there is, and can be, that nothingness cannot exist, and that as a universal language, only the most basic form of energy can be arranged or communicated freely, so in my theory, that something comes from the organization of energy into matter in space, as an event of change or perpetual motion occurs in energy, it causes chain reactions to change the energy outside of it to form into strings or 1 dimensional lines of energy, and as the effect reacts with other energy, it creates similar strings in effect that link together in the form of a matrix or "downward spiral", and is a destabilization in 'inert' energy, and as the effect then takes place and branches off, it becomes a little different each time, and as the variety grows the interaction of these strings become more susceptible to an effect or result, in that effect it also damages or changes other strings and branches the matrix into 'Y' or a split between 1 energy into 2.

the points between matrixes are 1 dimensional, and i do not know the math on it, but any 2 points together i believe make a 0 dimensional point in space, so as this spiral of energy collapses it turns those points into matter, that as the reaction broadens may have some how branched the matrix into a totally different form of matter, until of course, many kinds of matter are expanded in their properties, and as the change was so huge the matter that was changed from energy, is then capable of its own atomic properties, and so then can interact, changing and bonding with the other forms of matter to make molecules, which then do the same to form raw elements, that once put into those reactions and interactions cause effects in organization, and the reaction becomes more large, as in chemistry, and like the event that originally took place, the reorganized forms of chemicals form together and hold the events of this chaos and reorganize, then as larger objects that all fit and fall into place hence making other parts in the shape of a "downward spiral" or "DNA" that store this information chemically and reorganize that material into a working matrix, our human form.

[betsy]

See Christ. He simplified everything.

Instead of molecules and calculations of space and all those scientific terms that makes simple folks like me reel in all its complexities...that after reading it numerous times, I feel so stupid because I could not understand anymore than I did the first time. Don't get me wrong, I am not criticizing your view points.

You've got enquiring minds, and a more sort of obssessive-compulsive need to see through. I am not trying to convert you or anything. I am just suggesting, read the New Testatment...and focus on it...contemplate the possibilities...about what Christ could be really teaching and showing mankind. Do not look at it as a religious book. Look at it as a Self-Help, how-to.

[cybercoma]

See Christ. He simplified everything.

Instead of molecules and calculations of space and all those scientific terms that makes simple folks like me reel in all its complexities...that after reading it numerous times, I feel so stupid because I could not understand anymore than I did the first time. Don't get me wrong, I am not criticizing your view points.

You've got enquiring minds, and a more sort of obssessive-compulsive need to see through. I am not trying to convert you or anything. I am just suggesting, read the New Testatment...and focus on it...contemplate the possibilities...about what Christ could be really teaching and showing mankind. Do not look at it as a religious book. Look at it as a Self-Help, how-to.

Invoking a creator doesn't simplify things, it does the exact opposite. Read Darwin or seek out a good science teacher to explain it to you. Darwinism comes from simple beginning and are built upon like a crane creating a skyscraper.

Richard Dawkins described it as the most complex machine you could imagine sitting at the top of a summit. On the front side of the summit is a 200' drop, straight to the ground below; however, the back side of this summit is a slow gradual climb. Those who invoke a creator believe that this device was, in an instant, placed at the summit by jumping to the top of the front side with it. Darwinians believe that piece by piece this device was built upon by carrying each part up the gradual slope on the back. Which answer is simpler?

Invoking a creator creates all sorts of complexities, not to mention the endless spiral of how the creator got to where he is. Presumably, something so powerful to create mankind would be vastly more complex than mankind itself; therefore, if we invoke a creator to answer the complexities of the beginning of man, we must invoke a creator to answer the complexities of the creator.

I'm not saying there is no God, but what I'm getting at is that it is very highly improbable many times more improbable than the simple beginnings of Darwinism.

I was born into a Catholic family and went to Catholic schools and I feel as though I missed out on some very important teachings because of this. Catholic Schools most certainly have a very different curriculum from public schools. If I may be anecdotal for a moment, for Grade 12 english I had to attend summer school. We read Aldous Huxley's Brave New World; however, in my Catholic high school this was not one of the books we were taught, for obvious reasons (if you're familiar with the story).

What I'm getting at is, yes, I have read the Bible. I have personal read through it all, several times, and I have heard passage upon passage read to me in churches and at masses in school. Do I understand the message of Jesus Christ and the 'self-help' you claim it gives? Probably more than the average Joe. That's all fine and everything, but I would prefer not to believe in lies. I would prefer not to have faith (an irrational belief in something, contrary to whatever evidence may be against it) in something that facts and evidence can so easily debunk.

Now, if you're the type of person -- I don't believe you are -- that wants to be lied to because it's more comforting, more power to you. But, I don't think you are that type of person, nor do I feel most people out there are. The truth is beautiful and magnificent many times more than religion to me. Those complexities that make your head spin, just think of the magnificence of this universe. Think of how we interact with our environment; think of how animals exist and live; think of how precise the conditions must've been for earth to sustain life; break it down even further and think about how molecules and chemicals interact with each other throughout the world, throughout the universe, every day.

Nature and all of its complexities are beautiful and even awe inspiring, and a very large portion of it is already explained through science for those who are patient enough to take the time and learn. It's OK that we don't have all the answers yet, that just means there is more for us to explore. I feel the better our understanding of things is the more we'll appreciate them. I simply can't take the easy way out and invoke a creator, when the truth really is out there.

[betsy]

What I'm getting at is, yes, I have read the Bible. I have personal read through it all, several times, and I have heard passage upon passage read to me in churches and at masses in school. Do I understand the message of Jesus Christ and the 'self-help' you claim it gives? Probably more than the average Joe. That's all fine and everything, but I would prefer not to believe in lies. I would prefer not to have faith (an irrational belief in something, contrary to whatever evidence may be against it) in something that facts and evidence can so easily debunk.

But what lies?

If you mean of how events were perceived, written and translated....yes, possibly there could've been some inaccuracies, after all they were all written by men. Perhaps important, significant messages were missed and perceived in a different way.

You've been less enamored of the Catholic religion, and it seems that emotion is keeping you from looking at what could be possible from an objective point of view.

If we speak of mistakes, well science has a load of it too.

And if we speak of lies, well society had been told lies by propagandas in the name of science....depending on what "truth" or agenda is being pushed for public consumption.

[newbie]

"...I am just suggesting, read the New Testatment...and focus on it...contemplate the possibilities...about what Christ could be really teaching and showing mankind. Do not look at it as a religious book. Look at it as a Self-Help, how-to.

I would include reading books that weren't included in the Bible (Gospel of Thomas for example) and consider other spiritual leaders (such as Buddha) and modern spirituality. And throw in a sprinkle of evolution and you'll have a good mix. I would never limit myself to just one narrow path such as Christianity.

[betsy]

"...I am just suggesting, read the New Testatment...and focus on it...contemplate the possibilities...about what Christ could be really teaching and showing mankind. Do not look at it as a religious book. Look at it as a Self-Help, how-to.

I would include reading books that weren't included in the Bible (Gospel of Thomas for example) and consider other spiritual leaders (such as Buddha) and modern spirituality. And throw in a sprinkle of evolution and you'll have a good mix. I would never limit myself to just one narrow path such as Christianity.

I would suggest reading just the New Testament. Focusing on it. Contemplate on it. Really tinker with it.

For now.

Read it as you would read any other old book of philosophy and self-development.

And I strongly suggest that when you do decide to read the New Testament, you do so without contaminating your perception by thinking outright, "this is just a narrow path of Christianity."

You defeat the purpose by judging it on the outset.

I find that Jesus seemed to have addressed issues on health and preventing/handling stress (although of course they were worded...and presented quite so differently).

Who knows, maybe it is poor health and a lot of stress that distracts us from achieving our true potentials!

[gc1765]

Invoking a creator creates all sorts of complexities, not to mention the endless spiral of how the creator got to where he is. Presumably, something so powerful to create mankind would be vastly more complex than mankind itself; therefore, if we invoke a creator to answer the complexities of the beginning of man, we must invoke a creator to answer the complexities of the creator.

Precisely!

A lot of people argue for creation on the grounds that it is "simpler" or easier to believe than evolution. In reality though, evolution is much "simpler" than creation, when you consider that creationism must explain how the creator got to where he is.

[DarkAngel_]

A lot of people argue for creation on the grounds that it is "simpler" or easier to believe than evolution. In reality though, evolution is much "simpler" than creation, when you consider that creationism must explain how the creator got to where he is.

ummm... i am a theoretical physicist, not good at math but i got friends that help me out, and actually 'evolution' is more probable, the thing is, its very broad so hard to get a mathematical standing point to start from, but the theory i just specified is a good example of energy matrixing or the conversion of 'still' energy into matter. not easy, but if you want me to explain a probable god i will...

And I strongly suggest that when you do decide to read the New Testament, you do so without contaminating your perception by thinking outright, "this is just a narrow path of Christianity."

You defeat the purpose by judging it on the outset.

I find that Jesus seemed to have addressed issues on health and preventing/handling stress (although of course they were worded...and presented quite so differently).

Who knows, maybe it is poor health and a lot of stress that distracts us from achieving our true potentials!

read it from the age of 4 (bed time stories) tell 14, i don't remember a load of it, but i know of what i felt in it's teachings, every morning i'd pray, walk outside and watch a sun rise. i asked god every day the questions i do know, i tryed to find them on my own, i questioned my faith to strengthen it, i went as far as to try to find god in me! but it is not in me as much as it is by me, i adopted those morals and in a sense, he was morally real, but it was no truth, you see i had a conflict with god: freedom, i wanted to die at my time once done. i wanted to be individual, 'the one' but i saw that hole unfilled in me so i read 'Thus Spoke Zarathustra' and found a freedom that is so, REAL! and now my passions are back, i don't have to be happy to be complete, and that is when you can see a rainy day and still be yourself, that the situation is separate from the moral, i wish to be free of your moral gods, i am becoming.

and that is good health.

If you mean of how events were perceived, written and translated....yes, possibly there could've been some inaccuracies, after all they were all written by men. Perhaps important, significant messages were missed and perceived in a different way.

If we speak of mistakes, well science has a load of it too.

And if we speak of lies, well society had been told lies by propagandas in the name of science....depending on what "truth" or agenda is being pushed for public consumption

in history, all the great minds turned to their own mind, and did so in the ways of science! did you ever hear Da Vinci say "he said so!"? no, and i look to science for truth, not history. but corporations are damning science's prestige with lies and public agenda, i will have a stop to it, and have the resources to find truth amongst rabble, but the bible never told me the truth, now i must find it, but why on my own? the truth would be true to everyone! why resist its finding? in science, a mistake is more of a lesson then a success

Nature and all of its complexities are beautiful and even awe inspiring, and a very large portion of it is already explained through science for those who are patient enough to take the time and learn. It's OK that we don't have all the answers yet, that just means there is more for us to explore. I feel the better our understanding of things is the more we'll appreciate them. I simply can't take the easy way out and invoke a creator, when the truth really is out there.

i agree cybecoma, it is beautiful to understand something, but even more beautiful if you come to understand it on your own! so every day i make a note: don't trust any 1 word, find it out your own, even science has lie's and i have seen them! in my theory i can now look at the reality of energy matrixing, and in this theory their is potential, and a flaw, what caused the chain reaction?

[DarkAngel_]

also betsy, let me simplifiy it, believe me, i barely understood it myself, lol!

as uncharged or unchanged energy-'inert' energy (as in kinetics or a still object before movement) is swept up by an event (like the big bang) energy spirals out of control and the chaos of the event is so powerful, it changes the energies into other energies similar to the first, they link together and form a 'reflection' or imprint of the event, or the 'downward spiral' as a matrix of interacting energies, (like a whole bunch of magnets rejecting and attracting eachother, in the form of a tree) hence are super-charged and then cause effects to the 'inert' energy around them, linking the matrix to other forms of energy.(like playing marbles with 100 sets and seeing where they clump together, the matrixes interaction is like the braker ball) then as it becomes too massive in its energy, it collapses into a form of matter,(like streeching rubber to far, the recoil is that it forms into a ball) as at first it was 1 dimensional, or 2 points in the form of a string or matrix, then forms into a 0 dimensional object, or a focused point in space (atomic and subatomic) but as similar the energy was in the matrix, only a few kinds of matter where made,(like cooking with only flour and sugar) so the subatomic effect was to spiral into an organized form, or to compress (like pushing a car through mud, the imprint and effect of the motion are still there) then doing the same to atomic particles, or elements that then turned out many more forms of matter that had a better chance of interaction and reaction (like in chemistry) which then spun these atoms into masses that then spun complex singular hyper-reactive objects that also mimicked the event, or us. (DNA is nick named the 'downward spiral')

[ClearWest]

A lot of people argue for creation on the grounds that it is "simpler" or easier to believe than evolution. In reality though, evolution is much "simpler" than creation, when you consider that creationism must explain how the creator got to where he is.

Who created the original materials that initiated the evolution process?

[DarkAngel_]

A lot of people argue for creation on the grounds that it is "simpler" or easier to believe than evolution. In reality though, evolution is much "simpler" than creation, when you consider that creationism must explain how the creator got to where he is.

Who created the original materials that initiated the evolution process?

did you read my theory??

if you mean the energies then please, enlighten us.

if you mean to say god made matter, then i'd say that we would need a basis of science, as in a value to observe, any suggestions?

[cybercoma]

A lot of people argue for creation on the grounds that it is "simpler" or easier to believe than evolution. In reality though, evolution is much "simpler" than creation, when you consider that creationism must explain how the creator got to where he is.

Who created the original materials that initiated the evolution process?

Elements are created by stars using fusion.

[gc1765]

Who created the original materials that initiated the evolution process?

No one. They were created spontaneously. It's much 'easier' for me to believe that protons, electrons, neutrons etc. were created out of nothing, then came together to form atoms, which came together to form molecules, which came together to form molecules that are capable of self-replication, which formed life than it is to believe that God was created out of nothing.

Both theories have to explain how the original materials of the Universe came about, it's just 'simpler' to explain the formation of simple matter than it is to explain the formation of some super intelligent being.

[ClearWest]

if you mean to say god made matter, then i'd say that we would need a basis of science, as in a value to observe, any suggestions?

I have made observations, not with a microscope, not will a telescope, nor admittedly using any chemical or mathematic formula. But I have observed the way people conduct their lives... and I've noticed something different, something special about people who live in what they (and I) would call a righteous manner. By keeping the commandments and being faithful, something has touched their lives and made them better people, and brought them a kind of inner peace. That something, I believe, is God.

It's a personal thing that you can't really teach in classrooms or study in laboratories. But if you seek out truth, I expect that that something will touch your life too. Jesus said, "ask and ye shall receive, knock and it shall be opened unto you". God exists, and he is our eternal father, he won't leave you in the dark.

[Drea]

It's a personal thing that you can't really teach in classrooms or study in laboratories. But if you seek out truth, I expect that that something will touch your life too. Jesus said, "ask and ye shall receive, knock and it shall be opened unto you". God exists, and he is our eternal father, he won't leave you in the dark.

That "something" touching your life is YOU! You have a sane inner self that brings peace and enlightenment when "touched".

Nothing comes from anywhere but our own human selves.

Of course if you "knock" on your subconscience it will "be opened to you". If you don't, you will forever live in the dark.

God does not exist. God is a fantasy made up by humans in their effort to alleviate life's difficulties and understand death.

Death is the end. There is no heaven, no hell, no reincarnation, no resurrection. You are gone.

Sad eh. Well, the truth hurts sometimes.

So live your life as though there is no forgiveness at the end. There is no judgement. No pearly gates or firey pit. Just nothingness.

But don't worry, you won't know because you will no longer "be".

Cheerios!

Gotta go make the best of my short life here on earth

[guyser]

if you mean to say god made matter, then i'd say that we would need a basis of science, as in a value to observe, any suggestions?

I have made observations, not with a microscope, not will a telescope, nor admittedly using any chemical or mathematic formula. But I have observed the way people conduct their lives... and I've noticed something different, something special about people who live in what they (and I) would call a righteous manner. By keeping the commandments and being faithful, something has touched their lives and made them better people, and brought them a kind of inner peace. That something, I believe, is God.

It's a personal thing that you can't really teach in classrooms or study in laboratories. But if you seek out truth, I expect that that something will touch your life too. Jesus said, "ask and ye shall receive, knock and it shall be opened unto you". God exists, and he is our eternal father, he won't leave you in the dark.

Then I guess you missed observing the workings of the Boston Diocese? You missed meeting Ted Haggerty?

Jimmy Swaggert?

Pat Buchanan?

All of them, with the exception of Buchanan, got "piece" all right.

Living ones life based on the ten commandments will provide a nice blue print for living right. They are good rules to live by whether atheist, agnostic or Catholic .

But it does not make them better people in and of itself.

I suspect you found people who were good already, and avoided those who were not.Sort of preaching to the choir so to speak.

But one cannot say they are better for it.

In my observations, religious people are the worlds biggest hypocrites on the face of this earth ,bar none.Time and time again this is borne out on my dealings. The biggest hypocrite my company has is a devout Jehovah Witness. This guy is a cheating lying backstabbing sob. And I have the proof too ! But are they all like that? Nope, haven't met enough of them to know.

But that is merely an opinion based on who I deal with and interact with.

[guyser]

It's a personal thing that you can't really teach in classrooms or study in laboratories. But if you seek out truth, I expect that that something will touch your life too. Jesus said, "ask and ye shall receive, knock and it shall be opened unto you". God exists, and he is our eternal father, he won't leave you in the dark.

That "something" touching your life is YOU! You have a sane inner self that brings peace and enlightenment when "touched".

Nothing comes from anywhere but our own human selves.

Of course if you "knock" on your subconscience it will "be opened to you". If you don't, you will forever live in the dark.

God does not exist. God is a fantasy made up by humans in their effort to alleviate life's difficulties and understand death.

Death is the end. There is no heaven, no hell, no reincarnation, no resurrection. You are gone.

Sad eh. Well, the truth hurts sometimes.

So live your life as though there is no forgiveness at the end. There is no judgement. No pearly gates or firey pit. Just nothingness.

But don't worry, you won't know because you will no longer "be".

Cheerios!

Gotta go make the best of my short life here on earth

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh......man, no 72 virgins when I leave?

That sucks. I was looking forward to meeting them.

ps I like the way you think.

[newbie]

God does not exist. God is a fantasy made up by humans in their effort to alleviate life's difficulties and understand death.

Death is the end. There is no heaven, no hell, no reincarnation, no resurrection. You are gone.

So let me get this straight: in your world

- Jesus is reduced to a charlatan, as are the people who witnessed his miracles,

- everyone who has ever had a vision or seen/felt a presence of God are nuts,

- all mediums and psychics are bogus, and

- every religion is wrong.

Hmm, centuries of belief out the window. Thanks for clearing that up for us.

[Melanie_]

God does not exist. God is a fantasy made up by humans in their effort to alleviate life's difficulties and understand death.

Death is the end. There is no heaven, no hell, no reincarnation, no resurrection. You are gone.

So let me get this straight: in your world

- Jesus is reduced to a charlatan, as are the people who witnessed his miracles,

- everyone who has ever had a vision or seen/felt a presence of God are nuts,

- all mediums and psychics are bogus, and

- every religion is wrong.

Hmm, centuries of belief out the window. Thanks for clearing that up for us.

As Karl Marx said, "Religion is the opiate of the masses." (Waiting for the accusations of being a Commie)

All those centuries of belief were based on simple people trying to understand the world, and falling back on a paternalistic safety net. (Now I'm a feminist Commie)

God reminds me of another fairy tale figure you may be familiar with around this time of year. You know, "He sees you when you're sleeping, He knows when you're awake, He knows if you've been bad or good so be good for goodness sake." Remember boys and girls, if you are really good you will get rewarded, but if you are bad.........

[cybercoma]

God does not exist. God is a fantasy made up by humans in their effort to alleviate life's difficulties and understand death.

Death is the end. There is no heaven, no hell, no reincarnation, no resurrection. You are gone.

So let me get this straight: in your world

- Jesus is reduced to a charlatan, as are the people who witnessed his miracles,

- everyone who has ever had a vision or seen/felt a presence of God are nuts,

- all mediums and psychics are bogus, and

- every religion is wrong.

Hmm, centuries of belief out the window. Thanks for clearing that up for us.

Of course it's centuries of belief out of the window. Did you ever consider why it's centuries old?

Children take the religion of their parents. They're segregated and taught from the time they're born. It is frowned upon for kids to marry outside of their religion; therefore, they will bring their kids up in much the same way.

What distinguished the Irish Catholics from the Irish Protestants during all the death and destruction that happened there? Nothing other than the unfortunate circumstance of being born into one side of the battle or the other. The children looked the same, talked the same and acted the same; but they were taken and segregated into protestant schools or catholic schools right away.

Take away this label and there would be no way of knowing who was on what side.

It's centuries old because it's passed on from parent to child and in religion unquestioning belief (the religious types like to call it FAITH) is held as a virtue.

As for your mystics, etc. Anytime one of them sees fit to get $1 million or have a $1 million sent to their favourite charity, then can go see James Randi and prove their worth. As of yet, not a single peson has been able to.

And the historical documents of the Bible are sketchy at best. Even the most educated theologians have passed the Bible off as 'metaphorical' and 'symbolic'.

[DarkAngel_]

Who created the original materials that initiated the evolution process?

No one. They were created spontaneously. It's much 'easier' for me to believe that protons, electrons, neutrons etc. were created out of nothing, then came together to form atoms, which came together to form molecules, which came together to form molecules that are capable of self-replication, which formed life than it is to believe that God was created out of nothing.

Both theories have to explain how the original materials of the Universe came about, it's just 'simpler' to explain the formation of simple matter than it is to explain the formation of some super intelligent being.

its not that believing in a god is hard, its just silly. to me at least.

maybe their is a god, but i keep raving! not as it is worshiped!!

[DarkAngel_]

God does not exist. God is a fantasy made up by humans in their effort to alleviate life's difficulties and understand death.

Death is the end. There is no heaven, no hell, no reincarnation, no resurrection. You are gone.

So let me get this straight: in your world

- Jesus is reduced to a charlatan, as are the people who witnessed his miracles,

- everyone who has ever had a vision or seen/felt a presence of God are nuts,

- all mediums and psychics are bogus, and

- every religion is wrong.

Hmm, centuries of belief out the window. Thanks for clearing that up for us.

As Karl Marx said, "Religion is the opiate of the masses." (Waiting for the accusations of being a Commie)

All those centuries of belief were based on simple people trying to understand the world, and falling back on a paternalistic safety net. (Now I'm a feminist Commie)

God reminds me of another fairy tale figure you may be familiar with around this time of year. You know, "He sees you when you're sleeping, He knows when you're awake, He knows if you've been bad or good so be good for goodness sake." Remember boys and girls, if you are really good you will get rewarded, but if you are bad.........

oh dear, this is bad, a reward in death? how morbid, i wish to exist in life! do not be the black glove that slopes the babies heads, i am godless, remeber that for the others as well...

[DarkAngel_]

God does not exist. God is a fantasy made up by humans in their effort to alleviate life's difficulties and understand death.

Death is the end. There is no heaven, no hell, no reincarnation, no resurrection. You are gone.

So let me get this straight: in your world

- Jesus is reduced to a charlatan, as are the people who witnessed his miracles,

- everyone who has ever had a vision or seen/felt a presence of God are nuts,

- all mediums and psychics are bogus, and

- every religion is wrong.

Hmm, centuries of belief out the window. Thanks for clearing that up for us.

though not pertaining to me:

- Jesus is reduced to a charlatan, as are the people who witnessed his miracles,

no, he was in his greatness, ahead of the herd.

- everyone who has ever had a vision or seen/felt a presence of God are nuts,

no, unexplained, i could tell you why...

- all mediums and psychics are bogus

also unexplained and very interesting might i add

- every religion is wrong.

yes, the truth would be true to everyone, you see "art" is in the eye of the beholder, not truth.