What do you believe?

[DarkAngel_]

This is clearly the weirdest, most aburd, thread that has ever existed.

Thanx!

[DarkAngel_]

the 10th dimension is awesome, in fact it explains the complexities of energy matrixing between any given point, and the paradox between those points intersecting, as if free energy is just a make up of a matrix that makes up a dimension that has its own matrix that has its own universe, it is absolutely outstanding!

maybe we are but subatomic particles to an even more, incomprehensible universe of greater dimensions, this is awe inspiring, i need to tell all the nerds and geeks i know!!

[GostHacked]

This is clearly the weirdest, most aburd, thread that has ever existed.

Don't get around much on the net? I know a couple sites where absurdity happens on a daily basis.

[betsy]

You have completely misinterpreted what I said. Leaving aside the commercialism, Santa Claus is used to manipulate children into doing what adults want (caveat - I am as guilty of using this as anyone else!) The concept of God is used similarly - do what he tells you to, and you will be rewarded. If you don't, you will be punished - only instead of a lump of coal in your stocking, you will burn with the coal for all eternity. Both are based on an external motivation for rewards or punishment, not by internal motivation to do what is right because it is right.

So, that method of manipulation is not confined to religion. As I've pointed out...there is the boogeyman...the big bad wolf.

How can children know exactly what is right...without being introduced to its concept? Aesop fables and other stories have manipulated children for centuries.

Positive discipline has nothing to do with manipulation - it has to do with people (adults or children) determining their behaviour based on their own powers of reasoning, not based on some artificial benefit or threat.

Of course it has something to do with manipulation. It's right in there....the powers of reasoning.

And yes it could be based on some artificial benefit!

[DarkAngel_]

You have completely misinterpreted what I said. Leaving aside the commercialism, Santa Claus is used to manipulate children into doing what adults want (caveat - I am as guilty of using this as anyone else!) The concept of God is used similarly - do what he tells you to, and you will be rewarded. If you don't, you will be punished - only instead of a lump of coal in your stocking, you will burn with the coal for all eternity. Both are based on an external motivation for rewards or punishment, not by internal motivation to do what is right because it is right.

So, that method of manipulation is not confined to religion. As I've pointed out...there is the boogeyman...the big bad wolf.

How can children know exactly what is right...without being introduced to its concept? Aesop fables and other stories have manipulated children for centuries.

Positive discipline has nothing to do with manipulation - it has to do with people (adults or children) determining their behaviour based on their own powers of reasoning, not based on some artificial benefit or threat.

Of course it has something to do with manipulation. It's right in there....the powers of reasoning.

And yes it could be based on some artificial benefit!

as to be so rude as to interrupt, positive roles in a Childs life are based on influence, manipulation is 1 way to help teach as an influence, and i have no idea how you 2 got into a discussion of the boogie man and Santa clause in relation to personal belief, and the finding of the truth, this is clearly off topic.

but to make it relative, lets say that you believe in Santa as an adult, is it so wrong to share that belief with a child?

[DarkAngel_]

This is clearly the weirdest, most aburd, thread that has ever existed.

Don't get around much on the net? I know a couple sites where absurdity happens on a daily basis.

hey i've been trying to figure this one out for awhile on my own, thanx for the info, very enlightening.

go as one with the tomato sauce, and may the meat balls flow steadily down the throat... Ramen

[DarkAngel_]

oops! i choked on it!

just trying to get along, well peoples, i got a theory on what the 11th dimension is, as in 1 existence everything that can exist, does exist, and as anything that cannot exist does not exist, it splits into possible properties of universal existence, as in nothingness existing as shape without form, or a color without wavelength or as a universe, that is not in it's sense universal, that the existence as a something can then be broadened between nothing and the existences of what cannot exist,

think that might be it?

[ClearWest]

I could not put my faith in something I could not understand the purpose of. Even before the age of 10 I knew that a god just could not exist when it is all said and done. I never grew up with religion, so I have always been a person outside looking in on religion. I guess I just don't have the inside scoop on the real deal. I find it fascinating that one can put so much faith into something that cannot be understood. I always question people about how they feel the way they do about religion. I just simply cannot wrap my head around the concept of a god. I have an easier time understanding the 10th Dimension.

I don't know how useful this will be to you, but if you get the chance: 1 Corinthians 2:14.

PS, don't be scared.

[betsy]

so, is science the proof of existance in time? or are we to follow 'the path of roses' so to speak...

Who knows, science may crack the mystery of existence...and humans' full potentials. Through the guidance of God. It's highly possible, no?

[DarkAngel_]

so, is science the proof of existence in time? or are we to follow 'the path of roses' so to speak...

Who knows, science may crack the mystery of existence...and humans' full potentials. Through the guidance of God. It's highly possible, no?

i did not tell you? i was to quick to mention, I’m writing a book and it calls any base path a 'path of roses,' you see to me, god as he is perceived, cannot exist, so in turn the only course is that their either is no god, or the universe or 10th dimension is alive in a far more complex manner, meaning technically, it is god.

the guidance is one thing we don't have, i wish we did... but in fact we have no identity, we are knowledge and a millennia of pain, all we are can be summed up into the events proceeding today,

"we are not but a match in a dark place, all it takes is a whisper, and we will no longer be..."

isn’t that sad?

it is probable that in 1 existence of an energy, or being, the universe is summed into 1 being, and as an entity of childish power, grew apart a multitude of smaller existences, but this is well on the side of science fiction, it's like a screwy kind of scientology.

my worry is that, in fact, the human race has not made up its mind on what to say, or as i so proudly poetically put on another post;

all that could have been. the world, about to speak, although... what to say?

we hesitate...

i'm waiting to see what you all will say......

[Melanie_]

So, that method of manipulation is not confined to religion. As I've pointed out...there is the boogeyman...the big bad wolf.

Manipulation is defined by the Oxford Dictionary Online as: control or influence cleverly or unscrupulously; alter or present (data) so as to mislead. Oxford Dictionary Just as parents mislead their children to believe that their behaviour will lead to rewards from Santa, or to being terrorized by the boogeyman, religions mislead their followers to believe that their behaviour will lead to rewards from god. My point was to draw the analogy, and you seem to agree.

I ask...what's wrong about that? Is that not a sample of the modern day educators' version of "positive reinforcement" to discipline?

~snip~

I certainly don't buy into the notions of today's educators that you need to bribe children)! A lot of left-leaning educators seem as confused as the children!

BTW, as a left leaning educator, I can assure you that manipulating children is not part of what I teach my students about positive discipline.

[betsy]

Just as parents mislead their children to believe that their behaviour will lead to rewards from Santa, or to being terrorized by the boogeyman, religions mislead their followers to believe that their behaviour will lead to rewards from god. My point was to draw the analogy, and you seem to agree.

Seeing that you used the plural form in religion, yes I do agree for the most part....except that MINE does not mislead. Of course I talk as a firm believer of my faith.

[Melanie_]

Seeing that you used the plural form in religion, yes I do agree for the most part....except that MINE does not mislead. Of course I talk as a firm believer of my faith.

Sure, Betsy, whatever gives you comfort...

[betsy]

Anyway, for all you Atheists and non-believers in God, I'm curious: Do you have any back-up plan?

You know....in case you're all wrong?

Me, if I happen to be wrong in believing that there is an afterlife (which means that you guys have been right about the whole thing all along)....well, that must really be a let down. Except that I wouldn't know how I really messed up...because as soon as I died..poof. I'm nothing. No realization...no dawning of the truth moment...no comprehension...nothing. I'm erased. Gone.

But what about if I'm the one who's been right all along? Which then means you guys are all wrong.

What if you died....expecting it to be the end. Back to nothing. Only to suddenly find yourself still being...somewhere...anywhere....everywhere...but not nowhere. The dawning...realization...the comprehension....

What then?

Oooops.

[cybercoma]

Anyway, for all you Atheists and non-believers in God, I'm curious: Do you have any back-up plan?

You know....in case you're all wrong?

Me, if I happen to be wrong in believing that there is an afterlife (which means that you guys have been right about the whole thing all along)....well, that must really be a let down. Except that I wouldn't know how I really messed up...because as soon as I died..poof. I'm nothing. No realization...no dawning of the truth moment...no comprehension...nothing. I'm erased. Gone.

But what about if I'm the one who's been right all along? Which then means you guys are all wrong.

What if you died....expecting it to be the end. Back to nothing. Only to suddenly find yourself still being...somewhere...anywhere....everywhere...but not nowhere. The dawning...realization...the comprehension....

What then?

Oooops.

I'd like to think that if there is a God, he'd be more appreciative of someone who was using their free will and 'God-given intelligence' to debunk Him than someone who merely believes in Him just because they don't want to be wrong.

Besides faith, what empirical evidence do you have that it is YOUR God that exists in the 'after-life' (if there is an after-life)? What if it is some evil demonic being, that allows suffering and brutality to be a regular occurance on earth and continues the torment for eternity once we die?

I'm still going with the more than likely not a God approach.

[DarkAngel_]

Anyway, for all you Atheists and non-believers in God, I'm curious: Do you have any back-up plan?

You know....in case you're all wrong?

Me, if I happen to be wrong in believing that there is an afterlife (which means that you guys have been right about the whole thing all along)....well, that must really be a let down. Except that I wouldn't know how I really messed up...because as soon as I died..poof. I'm nothing. No realization...no dawning of the truth moment...no comprehension...nothing. I'm erased. Gone.

But what about if I'm the one who's been right all along? Which then means you guys are all wrong.

What if you died....expecting it to be the end. Back to nothing. Only to suddenly find yourself still being...somewhere...anywhere....everywhere...but not nowhere. The dawning...realization...the comprehension....

What then?

Oooops.

oh i got it! i'll scream like a banshee and hide under an emotional table! sorry, no oops.

i always think i'm wrong, if there is an after life, oh well, i can tolerate it because: yay! i still exist! kinda like the first time on an airplane...

if i go to hell... well that'de be just unfair! but i could deal with it in the fact i have no choice, so coddles to Satan!! and several games of poker and fiddle contests.

if i go to heaven, i'll talk gods ear off and insult ever Jew that walks by.

also do what the Romans did!

if i appear in purgatory, that'll be plain boring, i think i'd need alot of video games to be there. i most likely try to create a pretend world in my head and live in it, who knows it works for some people.

if its like nirvana, or the 7 fold path, i obviously failed in this life so i'd just be reborn.

if i just exist as a ghost, i'll cry my eye's out for several years and join a whole bunch of dead actresses in strip poker (nothing else to do) or i'll watch star treks endless marathon.

if scientology is true, get me a beer!

or paganism then i'll just become a spiritual coach potato.

you may think i'm joking, but i'm not, what ever comes; bring it on! i got a remote in one hand and a pretend plastic dagger in the other!!!

i think i can take it.....

[Slavik44]

Anyway, for all you Atheists and non-believers in God, I'm curious: Do you have any back-up plan?

You know....in case you're all wrong?

Do doctors have a back up plan? You know just incase babies really do come from storks?

[gc1765]

Do doctors have a back up plan? You know just incase babies really do come from storks?

[DarkAngel_]

Do doctors have a back up plan? You know just incase babies really do come from storks?

man, think about it, that stork is the PIMP! look at our cuurent population? how much money does this guy pay for child support?!

[betsy]

Anyway, for all you Atheists and non-believers in God, I'm curious: Do you have any back-up plan?

You know....in case you're all wrong?

Do doctors have a back up plan? You know just incase babies really do come from storks?

But it's proven that babies don't come from storks. Doctors know they don't need a back-up plan.

[betsy]

I'd like to think that if there is a God, he'd be more appreciative of someone who was using their free will and 'God-given intelligence' to debunk Him than someone who merely believes in Him just because they don't want to be wrong.

Would a dad be more appreciative if his ex debunk him to his children by saying "he's never been your dad. You're not his children," then introduces the new boyfriend as "this is your real dad."

And not only that, but put an ad in the paper and start to promote the idea to everyone that the real dad is not the real dad at all. So it's like someone who's sided with an enemy...trying to take his children away from him.

Some may merely believe in Him because they don't want to be wrong....although it is not perfectly through faith....there is still some amount of faith. It is a start to building faith.

Besides faith, what empirical evidence do you have that it is YOUR God that exists in the 'after-life' (if there is an after-life)?

Faith! Evidence is not necessary. Much more "empirical evidence." The same that you don't have any evidence at all that MY God does not exists. Much more GOD or a CREATOR for that matter.

What if it is some evil demonic being, that allows suffering and brutality to be a regular occurance on earth and continues the torment for eternity once we die?

Not MY God. You're more likely referring to that other so-called god.

[Melanie_]

I don't really think a back up plan is necessary, but it seems like it would be a false plan anyway, easily seen through by any potential higher power. Oh well, to humour you, I'll consider my options. Zeus, Hera, Aphrodite? Odin, Freya, Thor? Anubis, Isis, Osiris? Shiva, Brahma, Vishnu? Christian God in any one of the many denominations that all claim to understand him best? Allah? Yahweh? The Earth Mother? Gitchi Manitou? The Flying Spaghetti Monster? Iluvatar and the Ainur from Tolkien's The Silmarillion? Or maybe I'll just make up my own and call that my back up plan.

But do you have a back up plan? You seem to think there are only two options - either you are right, and all is good, or atheism is right, and there is nothing to worry about. What if we are both wrong? Maybe we will find ourselves barred from the gates of Valhalla together, or condemned to Hades, or spirited off to another dimension and turned into Orcs. Maybe we'll be reincarnated as a goat. Maybe Fred Phelps is right, and only the 8 of them will enter heaven, and the rest of us will burn in agony for eternity. Seems like you need a back up plan, too.

[betsy]

But do you have a back up plan? You seem to think there are only two options - either you are right, and all is good, or atheism is right, and there is nothing to worry about. What if we are both wrong? Maybe we will find ourselves barred from the gates of Valhalla together, or condemned to Hades, or spirited off to another dimension and turned into Orcs. Maybe we'll be reincarnated as a goat. Maybe Fred Phelps is right, and only the 8 of them will enter heaven, and the rest of us will burn in agony for eternity. Seems like you need a back up plan, too.

No, I don't need one. I'm pretty sure!

At least I've got documented history to back up my belief. Zeus and company were based on nothing but a need to explain. And that's the same for all pagan religions from Aztec to Wiccan. Islam is based on prophetic declaration, you might as well believe Jimmy Jones or Charles Manson...or even Jean chretien as believing Mohammed. Mohammed said "I heard from Allah blah-blah-blah..." and they believed. And they still believe.

You don't have to believe my documented history. But I do.

[betsy]

I don't really think a back up plan is necessary, but it seems like it would be a false plan anyway, easily seen through by any potential higher power.

I wonder how many atheists suddenly embraced faith on their deathbed?

[Slavik44]

But it's proven that babies don't come from storks. Doctors know they don't need a back-up plan.

But you just need to have faith in the stork. I mean people have just lost faith these days can you believe that they now think that Earthquakes are a result of a collision of the earths crust and not God...just have faith.

I wonder how many atheists suddenly embraced faith on their deathbed?

I am sure there are probabley a few, but so what? This is simply a case of desire, no different then me wanting to believe in Santa Clause and suddenly he existed