Netherlands to propose burqa ban

[Guest Warwick Green]

There are a "just a few dozen women in the Netherlands who choose to wear the burqa" and this "disturb(s) public order"?

The Dutch cabinet has backed a proposal by the country's immigration minister to ban Muslim women from wearing the burqa in public places.

The burqa, a full body covering that also obscures the face, would be banned by law in the street, and in trains, schools, buses and the law courts.

The cabinet said burqas disturb public order, citizens and safety.

Immigration Minister Rita Verdonk is known for her tough policies, and has clashed with past coalition partners.

Late last year she said the government would look into a ban after a majority in the Dutch parliament said they were in favour.

An estimated 5% of people living in the Netherlands are Muslims.

But there are just a few dozen women in the Netherlands who choose to wear the burqa, a traditional Islamic form of dress.

Critics of the proposed ban say it would violate civil rights.

The country's relationship with its Islamic community has been under scrutiny since the murder of film-maker Theo van Gogh by Islamic extremists in November 2004.

The decision by the centre-right government comes days ahead of an election in which questions of immigration and nationality are likely to play a key role.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6159046.stm

[Ladyjen]

This is too extreme and a slippery slope. We may feel uncomfortable around women who wear them for reasons of equality or whatever. It is our individual right to ask someone to remove it in our presence but they should have the right to choose whether they do or not. We are offended when we hear of middle eastern countries that outlaw female western dress in public places for religious reasons. We think it's silly. In the west, "freedom" is our mantra and let's not forget that.

[Guest Warwick Green]

This is too extreme and a slippery slope. We may feel uncomfortable around women who wear them for reasons of equality or whatever. It is our individual right to ask someone to remove it in our presence but they should have the right to choose whether they do or not. We are offended when we hear of middle eastern countries that outlaw female western dress in public places for religious reasons. We think it's silly. In the west, "freedom" is our mantra and let's not forget that.

I know. This means that the state would determine proper dress for just walking down the street.

[Argus]

This is too extreme and a slippery slope. We may feel uncomfortable around women who wear them for reasons of equality or whatever. It is our individual right to ask someone to remove it in our presence but they should have the right to choose whether they do or not. We are offended when we hear of middle eastern countries that outlaw female western dress in public places for religious reasons. We think it's silly. In the west, "freedom" is our mantra and let's not forget that.

I know. This means that the state would determine proper dress for just walking down the street.

Doesn't the state already do this?

[Higgly]

Doesn't the state already do this?

No.

[Black Dog]

Doesn't the state already do this?

To a degree. Plus, in as much as they do enforce dress codes, they apply them universally. This is not the case with a burqa ban.

[jdobbin]

This is too extreme and a slippery slope. We may feel uncomfortable around women who wear them for reasons of equality or whatever. It is our individual right to ask someone to remove it in our presence but they should have the right to choose whether they do or not. We are offended when we hear of middle eastern countries that outlaw female western dress in public places for religious reasons. We think it's silly. In the west, "freedom" is our mantra and let's not forget that.

I have no problem with the veil as long as someone can identify who the person is when needed.

Does anyone know the rules as they apply to driver's licenses? Or passports?

[Riverwind]

I know. This means that the state would determine proper dress for just walking down the street.

The state already does this - no one is allowed to walk down the street nude. That said, a ban on burkas is too extreme. I would rather simply make it clear that no gov't official or business person should be required to deal with someone wearing a viel if they don't want to.

[Guest Warwick Green]

I know. This means that the state would determine proper dress for just walking down the street.

The state already does this - no one is allowed to walk down the street nude. That said, a ban on burkas is too extreme. I would rather simply make it clear that no gov't official or business person should be required to deal with someone wearing a viel if they don't want to.

Or anybody for that matter. If she wants to shop in a store she should take her head covering off if requested.

[betsy]

Maybe this is not merely about banning burquas. Maybe it's a way of making a statement.

[Chuck U. Farlie]

You've gotta love the Dutch... they allow open drug use, euthanasia, no real drinking age, prostitution is legal, and everyone is encouraged to stick their finger in a dike, but burqa's are illegal... hilarious... I am glad I am Dutch descent.

[Ladyjen]

You've gotta love the Dutch... they allow open drug use, euthanasia, no real drinking age, prostitution is legal, and everyone is encouraged to stick their finger in a dike, but burqa's are illegal... hilarious... I am glad I am Dutch descent.

Chuck your name is very funny!

[scribblet]

Maybe this is not merely about banning burquas. Maybe it's a way of making a statement.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Betsy, they are trying to take a stand against a growing problem of social and religious tensions and unrest.

Maybe Muslim women should revolt and burn their Burkhas (or at least the veil)

[136GreenRoad]

Maybe this is not merely about banning burquas. Maybe it's a way of making a statement.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Betsy, they are trying to take a stand against a growing problem of social and religious tensions and unrest.

Maybe Muslim women should revolt and burn their Burkhas (or at least the veil)

Depends on how politically active these women are. This may result in even more women wearing burqas. But somehow I don't think banning them will stop terrorist activity.

[jdobbin]

Maybe Muslim women should revolt and burn their Burkhas (or at least the veil)

The only thing Muslim women do is burn themselves.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061118/ap_on_...suicide_by_fire

[scribblet]

Maybe Muslim women should revolt and burn their Burkhas (or at least the veil)

The only thing Muslim women do is burn themselves.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061118/ap_on_...suicide_by_fire

Very sad, strange how some people think we should get out of Afghanistan and ignore these human rights issues, but not ignore the Chinese human rights issues.

[136GreenRoad]

Very sad, strange how some people think we should get out of Afghanistan and ignore these human rights issues, but not ignore the Chinese human rights issues.

And the people who are insisting we challenge China on their human rights record are the same ones telling up to get out of Afghanistan (read Jackbo) so that the Taliban can come and take over and turn the country back into the Middle ages - once again.

[jdobbin]

Very sad, strange how some people think we should get out of Afghanistan and ignore these human rights issues, but not ignore the Chinese human rights issues.

Can't recall saying that we should ignore or pay attention to human rights in either country.

Certainly, we didn't go to Afghanistan to protect human rights otherwise we would have been there years earlier than 2001.

And long after we leave Afghanistan, there will probably be honor killings and abuse of women. Our being there won't change that. We're not behind the closed doors of every Afghan home. The only thing that will change things there is the Afghan people themselves.

[jbg]

Maybe this is not merely about banning burquas. Maybe it's a way of making a statement.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Betsy, they are trying to take a stand against a growing problem of social and religious tensions and unrest.

Maybe Muslim women should revolt and burn their Burkhas (or at least the veil)

I think it's time the Muslim immigrant communities made a statement as to whether they want to be part of their hosts, or the parasite that destroys their hosts.

[betsy]

Maybe this is not merely about banning burquas. Maybe it's a way of making a statement.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Betsy, they are trying to take a stand against a growing problem of social and religious tensions and unrest.

Maybe Muslim women should revolt and burn their Burkhas (or at least the veil)

I think it's time the Muslim immigrant communities made a statement as to whether they want to be part of their hosts, or the parasite that destroys their hosts.

From what I've read regarding "moderate" Muslims in Britain...those who would wish to be part of the western societies should grapple with only one crucial decision: give up Islam.

It is suspect for a muslim to insists on living in a western world under western ideologies if he is not willing to give up his religion. His religion sees the west and what it stands for as the epitome of "evil". Why would he insist on living in "hell?"

Btw, 80% of British Muslims polled had placed their religion to be top priority...over their citizenship.

Freedom of religion (in our society) should not apply to those whose belief is, death to all non-believers...or death to anyone, for that matter.

We do not tolerate Satanism carving out hearts of infants as sacrifice, do we? Hell, even PETA goes ballistic over animals being used in lieu of humans in such sadistic rituals!

[betsy]

There is a shift happening in Europe.

This burqua banning is so seemingly petty actually (with only a few women affected)....but because of its seeming "pettiness," it does speaks quite loudly!

The message is clear.

[136GreenRoad]

Btw, 80% of British Muslims polled had placed their religion to be top priority...over their citizenship.

What was the figure for other groups - Sikhs, Hindus, Jews, Catholics, Anglicans? All well represented in the UK.

[Charles Anthony]

Btw, 80% of British Muslims polled had placed their religion to be top priority...over their citizenship.

What was the figure for other groups - Sikhs, Hindus, Jews, Catholics, Anglicans? All well represented in the UK.

Actually, I would expect any sane person to put religion ahead of citizenship.

Not to exclude the irreligious from sanity, I say that (given nobody has control over who their parents are or their country of birth) it would make even more sense for a sane person to treat every person of the world with equal rights and respect. In other words, citizenship and religion would be bottom priorities.

[136GreenRoad]

Btw, 80% of British Muslims polled had placed their religion to be top priority...over their citizenship.

What was the figure for other groups - Sikhs, Hindus, Jews, Catholics, Anglicans? All well represented in the UK.

Actually, I would expect any sane person to put religion ahead of citizenship.

Not to exclude the irreligious from sanity, I say that (given nobody has control over who their parents are or their country of birth) it would make even more sense for a sane person to treat every person of the world with equal rights and respect. In other words, citizenship and religion would be bottom priorities.

The question then is, what relevance is the 80% figure for Muslims?

[Charles Anthony]

The question then is, what relevance is the 80% figure for Muslims?

I agree.