"Young British Muslims Groomed To Kill"

[betsy]

"In an stark public warning, Eliza Manningham Buller, director-general of the service commonly known as M15, revealed that the agency's caseload had risen by 80 percent since January and was now involved in about 30 "Priority 1" plots.

M15 has identified 200 terrorist networks involving at least 1,600 people, many under the direct control of al-Qaeda leaders in Pakistan.

"More and more people are moving from passive sympathy toward active terrorism through being radicalized or indoctrinated by friends, families, in organized training events here and overseas," she said. "Young teenagers are being groomed to be suicide bombers."

"Killing oneself and others in response is an attractive option for some citizens of this country and others around the world. The threat is serious, is growing and will, I believe, be with us for generation. It is a sustained campaign, not a series of isolated incidents. It aims to wear down our will to resist."

by Michael Evans

From the Ottawa Citizen

10 Nov 2006

England has enemies from within. Somehow I cannot help but think the terrorists had learned from and are implementing some of the effective tactics of warfare that had ended the Vietnam War: become "invisible," and weaken the enemy through the pressures from its own citizens (divided they'll fall).

Only this time, the terrorists had decided to bring "Vietnam" to their enemies' own soil.

It is hard to fight your enemies....when you don't know who they are. When they are mixed with the population and seemingly leading normal, every-day lives.

Just like the Viet Congs had worked as civilians alongside Americans in US bases in Vietnam...and were fighting and killing Americans during their off-hours.

What is happening in Europe, especially this latest report from England...must be causing major concern for a lot of other countries, whom are also vulnerable to such a scenario. The only sort of hope for countries like us who as of now have not yet experienced any massive-scale attacks...is that hopefully, plans are already being developed to deal with this kind of warfare tactic.

And hopefully when the time comes that our government need to act in however shape or form it deems necessary....we be all united to stand behind it.

100%.

[jbg]

These kind of tactics will be successful for a time. Then, the worm will turn rather suddenly and a lot of these "people" will be fighting for their very existence, much less the right to live in Europe in peace.

Europe has a millenium-old tradition of turning viciously on perceived outsiders, even harmless, productive ones such as the Jewish people. I cannot see the European people dieing the death of 1000 cuts forever.

[betsy]

Maybe they are starting to. Perhaps the "veil" incident involving Straw was a simple act of defiance...the beginning.

"Piggybacking On Terror In Britain

By DANIEL PIPES

August 29, 2006

Two days after British authorities broke up an alleged plot to blow up multiple aircraft over the Atlantic Ocean, the "moderate" Muslim establishment in Britain published an aggressive open letter to Prime Minister Blair.

It suggested that Mr. Blair could better fight terrorism if he recognized that the current British government policy, especially on "the debacle of Iraq," provides "ammunition to extremists." The letter writers demanded that the prime minister change his foreign policy to "make us all safer" One prominent signatory, the Labour member of Parliament Sadiq Khan, added that Mr. Blair's reluctance to criticize Israel increased the pool of people whom terrorists can recruit.

In other words, Islamists working within the system exploited the thwarted Islamist terror plot to pressure the British government to implement their joint wishes and reverse British policy in the Middle East. Lawful Islamists shamelessly leveraged the near death of thousands to forward their agenda.

Despite its reported fears of Muslim street unrest, the Blair government heatedly rejected the letter. Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett called it "the gravest possible error." The Foreign Office minister, Kim Howells dismissed it as "facile." Home Secretary John Reid deemed it a "dreadful misjudgment" to think that the "foreign policy of this country should be shaped in part, or in whole, under the threat of terrorism activity."Transport Secretary Douglas Alexander rejected the letter as "dangerous and foolish."

Undaunted, the "moderate" Muslim establishment pushed even harder on the domestic front.

In an August 14 meeting with high government representatives, including the deputy prime minister, it made two further demands: that a pair of Islamic religious festivals become official holidays and that Islamic laws pertaining to marriage and family life be applied in Britain.A Muslim present at the meeting later warned the government against any plans to profile airport passengers, lest this step radicalize Muslim youths further.

Why these ultimata and why at this time?

According to the Daily Mail, the leader of the August 14 Muslim delegation, Syed Aziz Pasha, explained his group's logic: "If you give us religious rights, we will be in a better position to convince young people that they are being treated equally along with other citizens." More ominously, Mr. Pasha threatened the government leaders. "We are willing to cooperate, but there should be a partnership. They should understand our problems. Then we will understand their problems," he said.

The press reacted furiously to these demands.

The Guardian's Polly Toynbee condemned the open letter as "perilously close to suggesting the government had it coming."The Daily Mirror's Sue Carroll portrayed Mr. Pasha's position as "perilously close to blackmail."

This was not the first such attempt by "moderate" British Muslim leaders at political jujitsu, to translate Islamist violence into political clout. The same happened, if less aggressively, in the aftermath of the July 2005 London bombings, when British Muslim leaders piggybacked on the death of 52 innocents to demand that British forces leave Iraq.

That pressure did succeed, and in two major ways. First, the Home Office subsequently issued a report produced by "moderate" Muslims, "Preventing Extremism Together," that formally accepted this appeasing approach. As Dean Godson of Policy Exchange summarizes the document, Islamist terror "provided a wonderful, unexpected opportunity for these moderates to demand more power and money from the State."

Second, 72% of British subjects now accept the Islamist view that Mr. Blair's "backing for action in Iraq and Afghanistan" has made Britain more of a target for terrorists, while a negligible 1% say the policies have improved the country's safety, according to a recent poll. The public solidly backs the Islamists, not the prime minister.

I have argued that terrorism generally obstructs the progress of radical Islam in the West by stimulating hostility to Muslims and bringing Islamic organizations under unwanted scrutiny. I must admit, however, that the evidence from Britain — where the July 7 terrorism inspired more self-recrimination than it did fury against jihad — suggests that violence can also strengthen lawful Islamism.

And here's another reconsideration: While I maintain that the future of Europe — whether continuing in its historic Christian identity or becoming an adjunct of Muslim North Africa — is still an open question, the behavior of the British public, that weakest link in the Western chain, suggests that it, at least, may be too confused to resist its Londonistan destiny."

Mr. Pipes (www.DanielPipes.org) is director of the Middle East Forum and author of "Miniatures" (Transaction Publishers).

http://www.nysun.com/article/38748?page_no=2

[jbg]

Maybe they are starting to. Perhaps the "veil" incident involving Straw was a simple act of defiance...the beginning.

Unfortunately, and not that I hold Hitler to be a model for anything postive, the rise of the Nazis is a pretty good indicator of how Europe, particularly the Continent, responds to perceived threats from outsiders.

I am Jewish and am in no way a Nazi supporter. It's just the experience of how Europe behaves; the Nazis had lots of help from other Europeans in filling the death camps.

[betsy]

Maybe they are starting to. Perhaps the "veil" incident involving Straw was a simple act of defiance...the beginning.

Unfortunately, and not that I hold Hitler to be a model for anything postive, the rise of the Nazis is a pretty good indicator of how Europe, particularly the Continent, responds to perceived threats from outsiders.

I am Jewish and am in no way a Nazi supporter. It's just the experience of how Europe behaves; the Nazis had lots of help from other Europeans in filling the death camps.

There might have been help for the Nazis from anti-semites in Europe...are you suggesting that Nazis and Europeans are equivalent? A pretty good indicator of how the world reacts is the 5 year war to free Europe and the Jews from Nazi tyranny.

There had also been massive help from Europeans and from the allies in support of the Jews. And that is known to be a good thing because most Jews were either unable, or unwilling to defend themselves. Fortunately for the Jews, Israel has reversed that trend and become one of the most efficient and dedicated defenders of democracy and freedom in the Middle east and the world.

Presumably you are comparing the Islamists to the Nazis. Otherwise are you suggesting that the Muslims are the equivalent of the Jews in the war?

All civilizations have a history of rejecting "strangers" in their midst. Why would you expect Europe to be different. We're talking about the 21st century now. Whatever problem you have about historical rejection, today's problem is one of an enemy in our midst.

[jbg]

There might have been help for the Nazis from anti-semites in Europe...are you suggesting that Nazis and Europeans are equivalent? A pretty good indicator of how the world reacts is the 5 year war to free Europe and the Jews from Nazi tyranny.

Remember who did most of the serious fighting. They fought in and spoke one language. Any guess which language? I believe that, with some shining exceptions (the eventual Pope John, the protagonist in Diary of Anne Frank) Continental Europe was shamefully complicit in the Holocaust. They helped load the Jews onto the death trains. Even Canada's PM, "One Jew is Too Many" a/k/a William Lyon Mackenzie King, and President Roosvelt may not have actively helped the Jews die, but didn't care too much either way. The "world" fighting the Germans were the English-speakers, and the Russians, who had their own near-death experience with Hitler.

There had also been massive help from Europeans and from the allies in support of the Jews. And that is known to be a good thing because most Jews were either unable, or unwilling to defend themselves. Fortunately for the Jews, Israel has reversed that trend and become one of the most efficient and dedicated defenders of democracy and freedom in the Middle east and the world.

What support, east of the channel, and south of Scandinavia? The constant drumbeat of UN resolutions?

I find Continental Europe has some good tourism, gave rise to some good classical music, but otherwise has contributed little of value. It turned itself into a charnel house with a millenium of wars leading into WW II, restrictive class and social structures, and feudalism with different labels, i.e. mercantalism, corporatism, and finally "socialism".

Presumably you are comparing the Islamists to the Nazis. Otherwise are you suggesting that the Muslims are the equivalent of the Jews in the war?

The former. But what I expect to happen will be an ugly European turn against the Islamists, again, because they are now in a near-death experience, the former Europe I mean.

All civilizations have a history of rejecting "strangers" in their midst. Why would you expect Europe to be different. We're talking about the 21st century now. Whatever problem you have about historical rejection, today's problem is one of an enemy in our midst.

The Jews have always found a relatively warm welcome in those societies that care what a person has to offer, not what their faith is. Those countries are, roughly speaking, the US, Canada, Australia, Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Iceland. And guess which countries have the highest standards of living? Those that don't impose artificial distinctions on people.

[betsy]

Jbg,

I am at a loss as to why there was...and there is, anti-semitism. I resent it. And now, there is even more anti-semitism, more so because of the Islamists. It is insidious.

But it is not clear to me what you're saying in the sense of persecution. Are you suggesting that you're worried Muslims might become the equivalent of the Jews during the holocaust?

Surely not. Islam represent the Nazis, the infidels are the new Jews.

If England takes the lead in stomping out the Islamic threats, the rest of Europe might follow. There are hopeful signs in England and in Holland now.

But it is the US - the leader of the Anglosphere - along with Australia and England, that will be the ultimate defender of our way of life.

[jbg]

Jbg,

I am at a loss as to why there was...and there is, anti-semitism. I resent it. And now, there is even more anti-semitism, more so because of the Islamists. It is insidious.

The way I see it is that we're outsiders. That isn't so bad if you're relatively inconspicuous. However, when we dominate the news, both for good and bad things, it inflames prejudices and most importantly, jealousy.

But it is not clear to me what you're saying in the sense of persecution. Are you suggesting that you're worried Muslims might become the equivalent of the Jews during the holocaust?

Surely not. Islam represent the Nazis, the infidels are the new Jews.

What I'm saying is that if the relatively cerebral, peaceful, constructive Jews were too different and too much for Europe to tolerate, can we expect any better toleration, long run, for people who really are destroying Europe, and Canada, bomb by bomb, airplane by airplane?

If England takes the lead in stomping out the Islamic threats, the rest of Europe might follow. There are hopeful signs in England and in Holland now.

But it is the US - the leader of the Anglosphere - along with Australia and England, that will be the ultimate defender of our way of life.

It always has been what's now called the Anglosphere that has straightened out the world's messes.

[Higgly]

Islam represent the Nazis....

Have you ever associated with Moslems socially, worked with some of them, had an intelligent conversation with some of them them? In short Betsy, does your personal experience derive from anything other than CNN, Fox News, or the Jewish Post?

[betsy]

Islam represent the Nazis....

Have you ever associated with Moslems socially, worked with some of them, had an intelligent conversation with some of them them? In short Betsy, does your personal experience derive from anything other than CNN, Fox News, or the Jewish Post?

Yes I've associated with some Muslims Higgly, socially and business-wise.

[betsy]

What I'm saying is that if the relatively cerebral, peaceful, constructive Jews were too different and too much for Europe to tolerate, can we expect any better toleration, long run, for people who really are destroying Europe, and Canada, bomb by bomb, airplane by airplane?

Let's not be simplistic. It's obvious the envy factor is prevalent in hate and prejudice. The English suffered hate and prejudice because of the fact that their subjects felt inferior to them. Canadians constantly belittle Americans mostly I think because they feel inferior to them. The question isn't what people feel about Jews or why. It's about a war against Islam.

We don't want toleration for our enemy...whether they're on foreign shores or in our midst. I hope there won't be toleration of Islam in our society, if this is what Islam has to offer.

I understand there are those in our society, liberals such as Jack Layton, that would imagine Islam can be appeased. But Islam does not imagine that. Islam's idea of appeasement is, become a Muslim or die.

You seem confused. Why would you even think of our society tolerating somebody that's trying to change it. By force. To suit their own insane beliefs?

[jbg]

You seem confused. Why would you even think of our society tolerating somebody that's trying to change it. By force. To suit their own insane beliefs?

Toleration is one thing. Brooking another Holocaust is another. It would take me a great leap to advocate a mass slaughter of any people, though the Muslims are doing their level best to invite it.

[betsy]

You seem confused. Why would you even think of our society tolerating somebody that's trying to change it. By force. To suit their own insane beliefs?

Toleration is one thing. Brooking another Holocaust is another. It would take me a great leap to advocate a mass slaughter of any people, though the Muslims are doing their level best to invite it.

We're talking of enemies, many of whom are within our borders. What holocaust?

Was it a holocaust when we defeated the Nazis?

Admittedly this is a different kind of war, and nobody knows exactly how it's going to be resolved.

But, it is going to be resolved. And the west is not going to fall.

[scribblet]

Mark Steyn has written a book called America Alone in which he describes Europe's "civilizational exhaustion," and how they are entering into a demographic deathspiral that will end only when they buy the farm, as it were, in Eurabia.

Steyn is am excellent writer and amusing, he writes that in the neo-medieval Mosque, the imam

and his circles rule by the divine right of God and his Prophet (the Tehran model). Both sacerdotal and totalitarian forms of government come from the mists of antiquity -- which, alas, doesn't mean they have necessarily run out ofsteam.

Militant Islam, as Steyn sees it, is certainly poised to take over Europe. "The only question is," he writes, "how bloody the transfer of real estate will be. Anti Semitism - we ain't seen nuthing yet.

There is another book John O'Sullivan's "The President, The Pope, and the Prime Minister:" Three who changed the world, that and Mark Steyn's America Alone have a few things in common, one of which is they are not available apparantly in Canada, including libraries.

[betsy]

Mark Steyn has written a book called America Alone in which he describes Europe's "civilizational exhaustion," and how they are entering into a demographic deathspiral that will end only when they buy the farm, as it were, in Eurabia.

Steyn is am excellent writer and amusing, he writes that in the neo-medieval Mosque, the imam

and his circles rule by the divine right of God and his Prophet (the Tehran model). Both sacerdotal and totalitarian forms of government come from the mists of antiquity -- which, alas, doesn't mean they have necessarily run out ofsteam.

Militant Islam, as Steyn sees it, is certainly poised to take over Europe. "The only question is," he writes, "how bloody the transfer of real estate will be. Anti Semitism - we ain't seen nuthing yet.

There is another book John O'Sullivan's "The President, The Pope, and the Prime Minister:" Three who changed the world, that and Mark Steyn's America Alone have a few things in common, one of which is they are not available apparantly in Canada, including libraries.

It was mentioned in an article how it's so hard to get Mark Steyne's book in Canada. One of the largest book company (I think it's Chapters) refused to carry it. If true, then we are being manipulated to read what we are only "allowed" to read. It really makes you sit back and wonder....what is Canada?

[Michael Hardner]

If true, then we are being manipulated to read what we are only "allowed" to read.

Betsy, it's up to Chapters whether they want to carry it or not. I don't see how that amounts to us being manipulated. Isn't Chapters still owned by Gerry Schwartz ?

[betsy]

If true, then we are being manipulated to read what we are only "allowed" to read.

Betsy, it's up to Chapters whether they want to carry it or not. I don't see how that amounts to us being manipulated. Isn't Chapters still owned by Gerry Schwartz ?

I wonder why they wouldn't carry it? If there is a demand for it, surely they can accomodate customers, right?

Just so to show that they (Chapters) are neutral when it comes to politics.....they have tons of anti-Bush, anti-American, anti-Iraq war non-fiction books....so what's wrong with Steyn's book? of course one would easily deduce that Steyn's philosophy does not agree with the powers that be controlling Chapters.

[Remiel]

Actually, Schwartz' wife, Heather Reisman, owns Chapters/Indigo. Also, as I recall, they don't carry Mein Kampf either, and likely other books in the same vein. Sun Tzu would be displeased, that they would deny us knowledge of our enemy.

[jbg]

Just so to show that they (Chapters) are neutral when it comes to politics.....they have tons of anti-Bush, anti-American, anti-Iraq war non-fiction books....so what's wrong with Steyn's book? of course one would easily deduce that Steyn's philosophy does not agree with the powers that be controlling Chapters.

Similar to art museums that eschew patriotic art, but are stock-full of sculptures of people urinating on Jesus.

Welll, the Steyn book can always be found on the Internet I suppose.

[jbg]

Actually, Schwartz' wife, Heather Reisman, owns Chapters/Indigo. Also, as I recall, they don't carry Mein Kampf either, and likely other books in the same vein. Sun Tzu would be displeased, that they would deny us knowledge of our enemy.

I can imagine a listing for Mein Kampf, which would say "Customers who bought this item also bought ":

1. Numb Chimpsky - Hegemony or Survival: America's Quest for Global Dominance (The American Empire Project)
   
2. Iron Man; The Defiant Reign of Jean Chretien
   

[Black Dog]

Mark Steyn has written a book called America Alone in which he describes Europe's "civilizational exhaustion," and how they are entering into a demographic deathspiral that will end only when they buy the farm, as it were, in Eurabia.

Yep. Mark Steyn, a theatre critic by trade, is venturing into the field of demographics. I wonder if his predictions on the fate of Europe will prove as accurate as his prongnostications on Iraq* and teh recent U.S. mid-term elections**.

*

"Isolated atrocities will continue to happen in the days ahead, as dwindling numbers of the more depraved Ba'athists confront the totality of their irrelevance. But these are the death throes: the regime was decapitated two weeks ago, and what we've witnessed is the last random thrashing of the snake's body."

-mark Steyn, May 4, 2003

**

said months back that the Republicans would hold both houses, and I’m stuck with that even if the polls show Rosie O’Donnell winning the Utah Senate race by a landslide. But fortunately for me the GOP will come out ahead on the night, more or less. I figure a Republican majority in the House of three-to-five seats, and the Senate not so different from what it is now, except for the loss of Lincoln Chafee’s seat.

-Mark Steyn, November 7, 2006

I'm dying to know why anyone takes this smarmy c**t seriously.

It was mentioned in an article how it's so hard to get Mark Steyne's book in Canada. One of the largest book company (I think it's Chapters) refused to carry it. If true, then we are being manipulated to read what we are only "allowed" to read. It really makes you sit back and wonder....what is Canada?

As with most things Mark Steyn, the "boycott" is a crock of shit.

Mr. Steyn has charged that Indigo and its chief executive officer, Heather Reisman, underestimated demand for his book as a means of "boycotting" it.

...

Sorya Gaulin, vice-president of public relation for Indigo, sought to quell the brouhaha yesterday, saying the company has in no way sought to boycott the book.

The company offered America Alone for sale as soon as it came out in September, but it quickly sold out, she said. Ms. Gaulin could not say how many books were originally ordered.

"Upon realizing we had grossly underestimated the demand for this title, Indigo immediately reordered several thousand more books, but Mr. Steyn's U.S. publisher was unable to fulfill our order because they, too, underestimated demand in the U.S. and Canada," Ms. Gaulin said.

Like other book stores in Canada, Indigo is now waiting for shipments that are expected to arrive this month, she said.

Mr. Steyn's U.S. publisher, Regnery, has said the book is in reprint and that all back orders will be filled.

Get that? The publisher simply didn't print enough books. Only a total idiot would interpret a simple lack of supply as evidence of malice. But then, Mark Steyn is probably the stupidest man alive, so there you go.

Toleration is one thing. Brooking another Holocaust is another. It would take me a great leap to advocate a mass slaughter of any people, though the Muslims are doing their level best to invite it.

So, really, it's not that great a leap for you, eh?

Welll, the Steyn book can always be found on the Internet I suppose.

Along with more enlightening and intelligent stuff like German scheisse porn.

I can imagine a listing for Mein Kampf, which would say "Customers who bought this item also bought ":

Well given the whole book is premised on the fear of race suicide, I can pretty much guarantee America Alone would be on there.

[betsy]

I've read critiques of this book of Mark Steyn, and the thing is: I noticed all the negative name-calling critics have nothing constructive to say. Not surprising considering they're coming from the lips of liberals.

[Black Dog]

I've read critiques of this book of Mark Steyn, and the thing is: I noticed all the negative name-calling critics have nothing constructive to say. Not surprising considering they're coming from the lips of liberals.

I've taken on the faulty logic behind Steyn's race panic before.

Short version: demographics is a tricky field. Trying to make predictions about how demographics will change 50 years from now is dicey business at the best of times. When you actually ignore evidence that contradicts the theisis (such as the fact that birth rates decline as education and economic status increases; or the fact that Muslims make up such a small percentage of Europe's population that it will take centuries for them-and that's assuming a consistently high birthrate-to catch up, just to name two), as Steyn does, you're flirting with disaster. IOW, Steyn is playing Malthus's game. And, like Malthus, he'll lose. Basically: it's paranoid, racist jibber jabbber for consumption by idiots.

[Black Dog]

Bump.

Above I compared Steyn to Malthus. That's not quite correct and probably does a disservice to Malthus. Steyn is more of a latter-day Madison Grant. But even Grant seems to have, through his conservation work, had at least some degree of positive impact on the world, which is mor ethan can be said for Canada's worst export.

[jbg]

Bump.

Above I compared Steyn to Malthus. That's not quite correct and probably does a disservice to Malthus. Steyn is more of a latter-day Madison Grant. But even Grant seems to have, through his conservation work, had at least some degree of positive impact on the world, which is mor ethan can be said for Canada's worst export.

Good BUMP. However, I read your "Madison Grant" link with both interest and horror. There was and is nothing inherent, even in Muslim immigrants, that creates violence. What Mark Steyn is correctly pointing out, I believe, is that most of the nations organized as Muslim nations are, as a result of the Wahabist orientation of Islamic education, turning into dangerous nuisances. I believe the problem is that the oil money has gone primarily to the Wahabist regimes, and they are funding Madrassa education even in previously relaxed Muslim jurisdictions as Pakistan and Indonesia.