We pay while Indians live in luxury

[charter.rights]

Are you saying the repeal of any pre-1982 statute requires an amendment?

To change the term "Indian" would require a constitutional amendment. However, that does raise one other point. SCoC rulings pre-1982 - especially where they concern Native rights must be re-visited by the court and re-issued with the Charter Rights in mind. That is why post 1982 decisions are critical to the application of law, since they must consider Charter Rights as a component of their final determination. And as we see when native issues hit the SCoC the court is prone to upholding right that the government has matter-of-factly legislated against in the past. This would also include I believe, that striking down of the Indian Act as a racist document should any native wish to make the challenge.

[DogOnPorch]

Nah. It is gun-loving, law in their hands, road kill dining, right wing rednecks. Gang problems are not the primary source of problems in these major centres.

Let's see...go by what I know and see each day or listen to you. No...I'm pretty sure that the idiots in those gangs promoting drugs, child prostitution and violent crime who are the problem. But, go ahead...blame the problem on 'rednecks'...which I suppose is people w/ normal jobs in your world.

Aboriginal youth gangs swarming festival goers and robbing buskers at the Fringe.

A weekend house party on Ave. H ending with 17 year old stabbed to death over a baseball cap. While police "interview witnesses" the home invasions by revenge seekers have begun - one involving the grandparents of a youth who was at the party. When they couldn't find him, they trashed their home and vehicles.

Last night a 52 year old man answered a knock at his door and was hit with a baseball bat by one of four home invaders in masks. Holding a knife to his throat, they demanded cash and his video game system. A fourteen and a sixteen year old are in custody.

http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/002488.html

http://www.firstnationsdrum.com/Fall2003/CrimeGangs.htm

http://www.firstnationsdrum.com/culture/wint00_gangster.htm

http://www.insideprison.com/prison_gang_profile_NS.asp

http://www.insideprison.com/prison_gang_profile_RA.asp

http://www.opinion250.com/blog/view/8329/3...o+prince+george

http://mikeoncrime.com/article/5658/winnip...st-a-click-away

There's more...

Care to provide links that "rednecks" are the problem?

------------------------------------------------------

Duffman: Duffman wants to party down with the man who sent in 10,000 Duff labels to bring me here today. I've got a bottomless mug of new Duff Extra Cold for, Barney Gumbel!

All: Chug! Chug! Chug! Chug! Chug! Chug!

Barney: I can't, I'm the designated driver!

---The Simpsons

Edited April 14, 2008 by DogOnPorch

[myata]

All agreements and proclamations were on the basis of a nation to nation relationship. This is recognized by the government already.

Nope of course not; agreements and laws enacted within Canada (e.g. between provinces) will have no effect on its relations with other countries (unless Canada choses so).

As has already been pointed out to you by other users, you can't be both within (for Canada to be bound by past agreements), and without (pretending an outside authority exists to interpret or enforce such agreements), all at the same time.

So in summary you are wrong on all counts.

Nope, having a representative democratic government isn't in any way equivalent to maintaining a claim for independence. All provinces have such government, but should any one of the put forward a claim for independence, it'll be decided based on realities of today, not 200 years back.

To claim full sovereignity over all historic land a constistent ongoing claim would have to be made throughout most of the past time; such claim would include consistent settlement and / or use of land in question; maintaining or consistently attempting to maintain control over the terrtitory, and so on. As there's little evidence of that happening over the years, the claim to "90% of Canada", even if it was ever valid, is now null and void. The only land natives can fairly and reasonably claim are those that they settled, used and controlled. As I said, I have no issue with that whatsoever and would support any mothion calling on the government to facilitate resolution of all such claims.

In all of this you have to be learning something.....even if you don't retain it long... what a druppy....

I always find it amusing to observe how thinning of arguments almost invariably (with some users of course) translates into thickening of insults.

Edited April 14, 2008 by myata

[DangerMouse]

Let's see...go by what I know and see each day or listen to you. No...I'm pretty sure that the idiots in those gangs promoting drugs, child prostitution and violent crime who are the problem. But, go ahead...blame the problem on 'rednecks'...which I suppose is people w/ normal jobs in your world...Care to provide links that "rednecks" are the problem?

hey dogonporch! all your sites end with ".com" meaning they are selling something...and you bought it your just like bozos who use wikis as references thats a problem now

------------------------------------------------------

Duffman: Duffman wants to party down with the man who sent in 10,000 Duff labels to bring me here today. I've got a bottomless mug of new Duff Extra Cold for, Barney Gumbel!

All: Chug! Chug! Chug! Chug! Chug! Chug!

Barney: I can't, I'm the designated driver!

---The Simpsons

[DogOnPorch]

hey dogonporch! all your sites end with ".com" meaning they are selling something...and you bought it your just like bozos who use wikis as references thats a problem now

Scathing....ooooo...take that society.

---------------------------------

We popped the heads off dandelions

Assuming roles from nursery rhymes

Rested on the riverbank

And grew up by and by...

---Emmylou Harris

[Canadian Blue]

Nah. It is gun-loving, law in their hands, road kill dining, right wing rednecks. Gang problems are not the primary source of problems in these major centres.

Can you back up any of your statements?

[DangerMouse]

Scathing....ooooo...take that society.

---------------------------------

We popped the heads off dandelions

Assuming roles from nursery rhymes

Rested on the riverbank

And grew up by and by...

---Emmylou Harris

Do you believe everything you read? I have a bit of advise for you--Don't believe everything you think!

[DogOnPorch]

Do you believe everything you read? I have a bit of advise for you--Don't believe everything you think!

Tell that to this young girl and her family.

April 15, 2008: Toddler's shooting followed 3 weeks of violence on reserve

Native leaders and police were struggling Tuesday to cope with the violence that has gripped their central Alberta reserve in recent weeks, leaving a toddler with critical injuries.

Twenty-three-month-old Asia Saddleback was shot Sunday night by a stray bullet during a drive-by shooting. The bullet tore through the wall of her house, hitting her in the liver and spine as she ate dinner with her family.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/20...r-shooting.html

http://news.aol.ca/article/Gang-Crisis-Bla...hooting/195527/

--------------------------------------------

Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in his error.

---Cicero

Edited April 15, 2008 by DogOnPorch

[Canadian Blue]

I blame those goddamn white rednecks who were not in the vicinity of the shooting. Now if you'll excuse me I've gotta put my head in the sand.

Edited April 15, 2008 by Canadian Blue

[manasketa]

Throwing money at the First Nations is not going to help them improve their quality of life, it's just wasting our tax dollars. A lot of efforts to help are viewed with disdain, partly justified because the initiatives are ill-conceived by people who do not understand the Indian paradigm, let alone aspirations.

I say, let's pay our outstanding debts from treaties, and leave them be! We have tried "development" from above, it obviously does not work (and indeed this asbestos repair business is yet another example of bandaging bullet wounds), so lets let each group go their way and develop themselves, with the resources they have a right to (the treaty money). If they choose to build casinos, that's their business, not ours.

But since policy dictates we must improve conditions for the Tsu Tina (even though asbestos, I read somewhere, was 1000x less likely to cause fatalities than car accident deaths), I don't think it's reasonable to leave them homeless during the repairs. And where else in Calgary is there room for 600 people, with a vacancy rate of almost zip?

[AngusThermopyle]

Beat me to it DOP.

What I find really nice is those like DM who bury their heads in the sand and refuse to acknowledge these problems. By doing so they merely make it easier for the bums to run rampant. So DM, do you believe this little girl deserved to be shot by "non-existent" gang members?

How many times do I have to say this before it sinks in? A bum is a bum is a bum, doesn't matter what race or colour they are, they're still a bum. Yes DM, Natives have their share of bums, just like everyone else.

I should know, my "trophy" friends (according to CR) have affirmed this many times to me. They have also expressed disgust with the behaviour of some of the people they live on the Res with. It appears both of you will go to extreme length to excuse these people and their unacceptable behaviour.

[jbg]

I say, let's pay our outstanding debts from treaties, and leave them be! We have tried "development" from above, it obviously does not work (and indeed this asbestos repair business is yet another example of bandaging bullet wounds), so lets let each group go their way and develop themselves, with the resources they have a right to (the treaty money). If they choose to build casinos, that's their business, not ours.

I agree. The FN's have to become serious about addressing their own problems of alchohol and drugs before any outside effort will help.

[DangerMouse]

I blame those goddamn white rednecks who were not in the vicinity of the shooting. Now if you'll excuse me I've gotta put my head in the sand.

You....Jerry Fartin, Angus, etc etc all really need to think about why it really bothers you so much? You know what they say, when you find faults in others, it really is a reflection of yourself? Look deeply and think about why they bother you so much? WHat is it about you? Why are you walking around with a dirty conscience?

[DogOnPorch]

You....Jerry Fartin, Angus, etc etc all really need to think about why it really bothers you so much? You know what they say, when you find faults in others, it really is a reflection of yourself? Look deeply and think about why they bother you so much? WHat is it about you? Why are you walking around with a dirty conscience?

A drive-by shooting is a reflection of yourself? So...what gang do you belong to, anyways?

Redd Alert, Indian Posse, FRB, Ruthless Posse, Alberta Warriors, Saskatchewan Warriors, Manitoba Warriors, Native Syndicate, Crypts, West End Boys, The Crew, Death Do Us Part, Zig Zags, Wolf Pack, Mixed Blood, Deuce...or other?

----------------------------------

Get your motor running....head out on the hi-way...

---Steppenwolf

[DangerMouse]

A drive-by shooting is a reflection of yourself? So...what gang do you belong to, anyways?

Redd Alert, Indian Posse, FRB, Ruthless Posse, Alberta Warriors, Saskatchewan Warriors, Manitoba Warriors, Native Syndicate, Crypts, West End Boys, The Crew, Death Do Us Part, Zig Zags, Wolf Pack, Mixed Blood, Deuce...or other?

----------------------------------

Get your motor running....head out on the hi-way...

---Steppenwolf

Wow! I'm impressed that you know all the names of the gangs I've never heard of! Congrats! What gang do you belong too?

[DogOnPorch]

Wow! I'm impressed that you know all the names of the gangs I've never heard of! Congrats! What gang do you belong too?

I have to live with several of them...and their good works around the community.

My gang = The Tax Payers. Perhaps you've heard of them.

--------------------------------------

Native gang activity is on the rise in urban and rural communities across Saskatchewan, according to a government report released on Monday.

Bearing names like the Native Syndicate, Crazy Cree and the Tribal Brotherz, adult gangs have maintained a presence in the province since the 1990s. The gangs are associated with violent crimes, drug trafficking, prostitution and cross-border smuggling.

---http://www.indianz.com/News/2005/007036.asp Winnebago Reservation, Nebraska

Edited April 16, 2008 by DogOnPorch

[Canadian Blue]

You....Jerry Fartin, Angus, etc etc all really need to think about why it really bothers you so much? You know what they say, when you find faults in others, it really is a reflection of yourself? Look deeply and think about why they bother you so much? WHat is it about you? Why are you walking around with a dirty conscience?

I have a clear conscience, more or less because I have never wronged the toddler that was shot. However I do believe in punishing those who shot her, something which you probably wouldn't agree with due to your moral relativism.

[AngusThermopyle]

You....Jerry Fartin, Angus, etc etc all really need to think about why it really bothers you so much? You know what they say, when you find faults in others, it really is a reflection of yourself? Look deeply and think about why they bother you so much? WHat is it about you? Why are you walking around with a dirty conscience?

Huh! Dont think so sport, I've never harmed a child, much less shot a twenty three month old girl in the stomach while she's eating dinner.

Once again you contribute nothing of substance, merely scrabble to try and score some sort of intangible points.

Once again you conciede that you have nothing intelligent to say by resorting to facile juvenile slurs.

Once again you make unfounded assumptions with no substance.

Once again you prove to be dependably predictable.

Thank you, once again.

[DangerMouse]

Huh! Dont think so sport, I've never harmed a child, much less shot a twenty three month old girl in the stomach while she's eating dinner.

Once again you contribute nothing of substance, merely scrabble to try and score some sort of intangible points.

Once again you conciede that you have nothing intelligent to say by resorting to facile juvenile slurs.

Once again you make unfounded assumptions with no substance.

Once again you prove to be dependably predictable.

Thank you, once again.

Angus! Don't believe everyrhing you think!

[AngusThermopyle]

Angus! Don't believe everyrhing you think!

Ironic advice coming from someone obviously not well versed in thinking.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

It seems that my CPC elected representative has no desire to deal with FN. He fears something, what I don't know. It appeas that for at least the moment, we will continue to listening to the garbage being spewed about the issue at hand. Its a sad commentary on our society that put race and privilege ahead of rights.

[charter.rights]

It seems that my CPC elected representative has no desire to deal with FN. He fears something, what I don't know. It appeas that for at least the moment, we will continue to listening to the garbage being spewed about the issue at hand. Its a sad commentary on our society that put race and privilege ahead of rights.

I agree. For years the white Anglo-Saxon male has had far too power to the detriment of other non-Anglo Canadians. I am glad that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms removes that power and allows other whom the Anglos have oppressed with his tyranny, to participate in government and in corporate systems.

The CPC knows that law and cannot go against it. Fortunately for those of us who know the law and support individual and collective rights, your opinion is worthless.

And in spite of your ignorance on the subject I would suggest that race has nothing to do with it. It is all about law and historical evolution....but then again, if you knew the law, you would have already known that.

Edited April 17, 2008 by charter.rights

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I agree. For years the white Anglo-Saxon male has had far too power to the detriment of other non-Anglo Canadians. I am glad that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms removes that power and allows other whom the Anglos have oppressed with his tyranny, to participate in government and in corporate systems.

The CPC knows that law and cannot go against it. Fortunately for those of us who know the law and support individual and collective rights, your opinion is worthless.

And in spite of your ignorance on the subject I would suggest that race has nothing to do with it. It is all about law and historical evolution....but then again, if you knew the law, you would have already known that.

Let me be clear you racist idiot, the time has come to face reality. Your race is no longer discriminated against, mine is. Add to that point my sex is now being discriminated against as well. The "white man" is treated as pond scum and moved to the bottom of the pile. That is simply legal discrimination, as is the entire concept of affirmative action. It is wrong, and in my opinion it should be stopped.

The right thing to do is make qualifications and opportunity blind to both race and sex to make an even foundation. That is what the law should do, protect individual rights.

In my opinion rights apply to all, not any specific group because when you enact legislation in that manner you in fact create privilege instead of rights. That is where we are going wrong here!

People of First Nations deserve no more and no less than any other person in this country. The entire concept of doing anything else in in way shape or form is disgusting to me. Yet some here believe otherwise, and for them their ways seem to be superior. I believe that to be a racist attitude.

I must repeat that no citizen in this country should have any more right than another. The concept that natives of the First Nations group should be entitled to own land when no other citizen in this country has that legal right is immoral and fundamentally flawed in my opinion. That is the basis of my argument, the flawed constitutional document that we now have divests all other citizens of this right while it protects the land already in possession of First Nations and leaves the door open for even greater gains for these people while ignoring the rights of the rest of the citizens.

Do I think that natives have been wronged at some point in history, yes. Yet that does not mean that the proper solution to that problem is to punish everyone else forever. It does not mean that this nation should go belly up or kowtow to this group or any other specific group of citizens. It does mean that ALL citizens should have equal rights. I favour native self government, I honestly view that as a form of municipal government nothing more or less. As such they would be granted no more and no less than any other group of Canadian citizens. In my view that is the proper way to seek resolution to the current problem. The entire concept of giving away huge tracts of land is foolish. Enough land to set up and operate a municipality where they can govern themselves is sufficient. As far as hunting and fishing rights go, I believe they already have the right to hunt on crown land and that is sufficient so there is no requirement for lands for this purpose. I truly do want a resolution to the problems we face, yet I am unable to simply give away the farm, not at the expense of others.

[AngusThermopyle]

but then again, if you knew the law, you would have already known that.

Love the irony.

[Qwerty]

I've heard that white people are not allowed to take pride in their own race otherwise they be labeled as racist. Also I heard that it appears that whites are systemicly made to feel guilty about their skin colour so resort to taking pride in others race(s) instead of their own.

I could be hearing the wrong things, that's just what I've heard from regular people.