We pay while Indians live in luxury

[charter.rights]

I have a great idea lets abolish the Indian act and give all the Indian's the same rights as us white people have, the right to pay taxes, work for their money and build their own houses. Then we will all be truly equal.

I have a better idea. Let's create a White Act and let us suffer with the Indians. Now that's equality!

However, an act such as wiping out the Indian Act won't change much. There is a historical and legal reason that Natives must be supported that is entrenched not only in the Constitution but in the very fabric of the country. You see legally Crown title to land in Canada is trumped by aboriginal title and if you think we can get out of that relationship by a stroke of the pen you have another thng coming. Providing the natives with services is by far the cheapest route for us to go. Otherwise they just might call in their trillions worth of trusts we hold on their behalf AND take all the land back and start charging us rent.

Edited May 1, 2008 by charter.rights

[Wild Bill]

I have a better idea. Let's create a White Act and let us suffer with the Indians. Now that's equality!

However, an act such as wiping out the Indian Act won't change much. There is a historical and legal reason that Natives must be supported that is entrenched not only in the Constitution but in the very fabric of the country. You see legally Crown title to land in Canada is trumped by aboriginal title and if you think you can get out of that relationship by a stroke of the pen you have another thng coming. Providing the natives with services is by far the cheapest route for us to go. Otherwise they just might call in their trillions worth of trusts we hold on their behalf AND take all the land back and start charging us rent.

Do you seriously expect that any government would stay in power if they caved in to such a ridiculous argument?How would natives take back ALL the land? How would they collect such rent?

It is never smart negotiating tactics to expect your opponent to cheerfully commit political suicide for you.

It simply could never happen.

[charter.rights]

Do you seriously expect that any government would stay in power if they caved in to such a ridiculous argument?How would natives take back ALL the land? How would they collect such rent?

It is never smart negotiating tactics to expect your opponent to cheerfully commit political suicide for you.

It simply could never happen.

It is happening as we speak. The "honour" of the Crown depends on it!

[AngusThermopyle]

It is happening as we speak. The "honour" of the Crown depends on it!

Wrong again. What is happening is that Canadians are dealing with these issues in a fair and equitable manner. The Government isn't just giving away the farm, much as you would like to be the case.

I find it interesting that you and your fans always revert to thinly veiled threats when your smoke arguments are revealed for what they are. WB asked you a question you refuse to answer, so I'll ask it again for him. Just how do you think Natives would "take" the land if Canadians said no?

I also notice that when I post information relating to initiatives being enacted to better the condition of Natives you remain strangely silent. You know, things like the monies allocated to water treatment and training, or the Truth and Reconciliation commission starting this summer, or granting basic protections under law for Native women. There are many others under way even as we speak. Personally I would have thought these topics would have been of great interest to you. Could it be that the truth disarms your propaganda so you want no part of it?

As for the point you raise about honour. All I can suggest is that before you throw that word around too loosely perhaps you and the lackeys who follow the example you personify try showing a little honour yourselves.

I'll admit, I am curious about one thing. Why is it that you think Natives showing personal responsibility is a bad thing? Could it be that the reason is rooted in the fact that it would blow your constant mantra of gimme gimme gimme and not my fault its theirs right out of the water?

[charter.rights]

Wrong again. What is happening is that Canadians are dealing with these issues in a fair and equitable manner. The Government isn't just giving away the farm, much as you would like to be the case.

I find it interesting that you and your fans always revert to thinly veiled threats when your smoke arguments are revealed for what they are. WB asked you a question you refuse to answer, so I'll ask it again for him. Just how do you think Natives would "take" the land if Canadians said no?

I also notice that when I post information relating to initiatives being enacted to better the condition of Natives you remain strangely silent. You know, things like the monies allocated to water treatment and training, or the Truth and Reconciliation commission starting this summer, or granting basic protections under law for Native women. There are many others under way even as we speak. Personally I would have thought these topics would have been of great interest to you. Could it be that the truth disarms your propaganda so you want no part of it?

As for the point you raise about honour. All I can suggest is that before you throw that word around too loosely perhaps you and the lackeys who follow the example you personify try showing a little honour yourselves.

I'll admit, I am curious about one thing. Why is it that you think Natives showing personal responsibility is a bad thing? Could it be that the reason is rooted in the fact that it would blow your constant mantra of gimme gimme gimme and not my fault its theirs right out of the water?

Actually Canada has already agreed to give away the farm and the quarry down in Deseronto -the latest of lands claims gone awry..... 384 acres have already been given along with a substantial amount of payment for loss of use. There are other plots that will be returned as well beofre that final deal is struck.

As for answering your strawman arguments, I won't waste my time. You use your token indian friends to make your point and continue to put them on display as if it makes you some kind of saint. Unfortunately the underlying disrespect is evident.

You don't know what personal responsibility is..now do you...It isn't about going to some useless job every day paying your masters for slave wages. No that's not responsibility. Its called cowardice and is as prevalent among the misfit army as it is in corporate dumbdom. No personal responsibility is standing up and speaking up for injustice, risking harm by police goon squads and greedy developers trying to steal land for their own personal gain. That takes guts. Something you wouldn't understand because it seems you prefer being told what to do.

[AngusThermopyle]

You don't know what personal responsibility is..now do you...It isn't about going to some useless job every day paying your masters for slave wages. No that's not responsibility. Its called cowardice and is as prevalent among the misfit army as it is in corporate dumbdom. No personal responsibility is standing up and speaking up for injustice, risking harm by police goon squads and greedy developers trying to steal land for their own personal gain. That takes guts. Something you wouldn't understand because it seems you prefer being told what to do.

Lets see. When we look at the above what we see is quite evident.

In effect what you are saying is that you are a useless drain on society and merely want to hold out your hands for perpetuity saying gimme more. What a fool I was to believe that you might find pro active solutions more desirable than hand outs. Of course hand outs would be far more to your taste than actually...dare I say it...working for a living.

Thanks for confirming what I already knew.

By the way, my "token" friends said you can go, I'll leave the rest up to you to figure out.

[AngusThermopyle]

You don't know what personal responsibility is..now do you...It isn't about going to some useless job every day paying your masters for slave wages. No that's not responsibility. Its called cowardice and is as prevalent among the misfit army as it is in corporate dumbdom. No personal responsibility is standing up and speaking up for injustice, risking harm by police goon squads and greedy developers trying to steal land for their own personal gain. That takes guts. Something you wouldn't understand because it seems you prefer being told what to do.

Lets see. When we look at the above what we see is quite evident. Spoken like a true loser.

In effect what you are saying is that you are a drain on society and merely want to hold out your hands for perpetuity saying gimme more. What a fool I was to believe that you might find pro active solutions more desirable than hand outs. Of course hand outs would be far more to your taste than actually...dare I say it...working for a living.

Thanks for confirming what I already knew.

By the way, my "token" friends said you can go, well I'll leave the rest up to you to figure out. Being Blackfoot they have quite a bit of personal pride, unlike the ones you associate with or are part of.

[charter.rights]

Lets see. When we look at the above what we see is quite evident.

In effect what you are saying is that you are a useless drain on society and merely want to hold out your hands for perpetuity saying gimme more. What a fool I was to believe that you might find pro active solutions more desirable than hand outs. Of course hand outs would be far more to your taste than actually...dare I say it...working for a living.

Thanks for confirming what I already knew.

By the way, my "token" friends said you can go, I'll leave the rest up to you to figure out.

Me? Ha ha ha ha! I earn 6 figures a year consulting with those rich natives you so vehemently condemn. Your head is full of myths about them. I have been explaining the real world but I guess that not only did you sleep through history class but you failed economics as well.

The point is that while there are some horror stories to be told, the majority live and work in the mainstream and the only ones looking for handouts are those poor white males who sit and complain about their imaginary petty loss of power. It seems, my friend that you might find yourself in that category...and I would suspect that you are balding as well....

[AngusThermopyle]

The point is that while there are some horror stories to be told, the majority live and work in the mainstream and the only ones looking for handouts are those poor white males who sit and complain about their imaginary petty loss of power. It seems, my friend that you might find yourself in that category...and I would suspect that you are balding as well....

You never cease to amaze me, just when I think you've told as big a whopper as possible you manage to trump your last tripe.

What I really enjoy is your presumptions. You know nothing about anyone yet you propound and toss about your pearls of wisdom. Debate with you consists of reading the same tired unproven opinions and having any point of merit ignored. I'll be frank with you, I believe 99% of what emanates from you to be pure bullshit. Also interesting to note is the way you resort to the same old childish feeble attempts to insult based on hair style. Pathetic really, but no less than I've come to expect from you.

So, how bout you answer WB's question, asking again, third time it's been asked.

[DangerMouse]

You never cease to amaze me, just when I think you've told as big a whopper as possible you manage to trump your last tripe.

What I really enjoy is your presumptions. You know nothing about anyone yet you propound and toss about your pearls of wisdom. Debate with you consists of reading the same tired unproven opinions and having any point of merit ignored. I'll be frank with you, I believe 99% of what emanates from you to be pure bullshit. Also interesting to note is the way you resort to the same old childish feeble attempts to insult based on hair style. Pathetic really, but no less than I've come to expect from you.

So, how bout you answer WB's question, asking again, third time it's been asked.

Charter knows the issues...all the rest of you..as Ive said before, are outright dorks... I think Ive used the term "lightbulbs" and of course cranky old bald headed farts If you don't like it...initiate the White Act and let the Indians run the show Get rid of the Indian Act and you'll be taking jobs a way from many non-natives who are sucking that money....still yet, if you don't like it--go back to Europe

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Charter knows the issues...all the rest of you..as Ive said before, are outright dorks... I think Ive used the term "lightbulbs" and of course cranky old bald headed farts If you don't like it...initiate the White Act and let the Indians run the show Get rid of the Indian Act and you'll be taking jobs a way from many non-natives who are sucking that money....still yet, if you don't like it--go back to Europe

You can say what you want, the reality is that as long as your kind exists the natives already have all they deserve. In fact they have more than they deserve in as much as native privileges outrank non-native citizens rights. As long as people like you demand that you receive at the expense of others, you have no respect from me and many others. Should you desire equality there would be many who would support your efforts, myself included. Unfortunately that is simply not the case, you ask for more than you deserve and you demand special privileges that other citizens cannot have. That makes your efforts both foolish and racist.

It is my hope that the leaders of your people wise up, and the nut cases of your people simple shut up. Maybe then the natives in this nation could hope to see some resolution within their lifetime. I think it far more likely that the nonsense will continue and that you will live your lives waiting for something that will never happen because of your own greed and ignorance. A solution could easily be found that is acceptable to all concerned, but that will simply never happen until the people of the first nations gain a little enlightenment. Not all natives are fools, yet most citizens only hear about them and from them and that puts a bad light on any effort whether real or il-conceived.

Give it some thought people, do what is right. Stop using your mouths to shoot yourselves in the feet and wake up and smell the coffee. Get a grip folks......

[charter.rights]

You can say what you want, the reality is that as long as your kind exists the natives already have all they deserve. In fact they have more than they deserve in as much as native privileges outrank non-native citizens rights. As long as people like you demand that you receive at the expense of others, you have no respect from me and many others. Should you desire equality there would be many who would support your efforts, myself included. Unfortunately that is simply not the case, you ask for more than you deserve and you demand special privileges that other citizens cannot have. That makes your efforts both foolish and racist.

It is my hope that the leaders of your people wise up, and the nut cases of your people simple shut up. Maybe then the natives in this nation could hope to see some resolution within their lifetime. I think it far more likely that the nonsense will continue and that you will live your lives waiting for something that will never happen because of your own greed and ignorance. A solution could easily be found that is acceptable to all concerned, but that will simply never happen until the people of the first nations gain a little enlightenment. Not all natives are fools, yet most citizens only hear about them and from them and that puts a bad light on any effort whether real or il-conceived.

Give it some thought people, do what is right. Stop using your mouths to shoot yourselves in the feet and wake up and smell the coffee. Get a grip folks......

Prima donna are you?

There are legal settlements that must and will be settled that will find a lot more money and land being handed over to Native people. That's the law and since the government prefers not to go to court (believing that they would expect far greater losses) they negotiate, often starting from a deficit.

Natives have no more rights than we do. Unfortunately because we can't behave, we have a lot more restrictions. We don't need to hunt and fish for sustenance as many native people do. So we are restricted on seasons and numbers we can harvest. The legal position of native people where it concerns aboriginal and land rights means that their title to land in Canada sits over ours and historically we could not have built Canada without their co-operation and treaties. The thing is had we paid up in the first pace instead of being the greedy bitches we are, there would be no land and aboriginal rights issues today. They would have been woven into the fabric of our society long ago.

Native people are no fools. There have a legal position that has backed the Crown into a corner where the only way out for us is to negotiate for a better slice of the pie and then settle with them. The unfortunate thing is that between the government and people like you ignorance and myth gets spread around, designed to demonize native people when the real demons are us, being ungrateful and plainly stupid about letting First Nations finally have their share of our profits we made off of their land. Giving land back is viable in a willing seller buyer relationship and that is the position the government generally takes. However, how long do you think you would last with smoke shops on either side of you as your neighbours cave into the reclamations and move away from your neighbourhood. The fact is the government does go out and buy land from homeowners to give back to natives. They also turn over Crown lands that have not been developed and in the long run it seems native people will get the land back one way or the other. Te question is whether we benefit from this movement by willingly selling to the government at inflated prices? Many people choose that route giving into to their greed and leaving their principles in the sewer. So talk big little man, in the end you will cave too, just as many others have when the going gets a little tough.

The most vocal of late, the Six Nations Confederacy (the Mohawks are part of this alliance) have a very unique political stature. They are not confined by chieftan leaderships like us that make secret deals under the cover of darkness and then tell the rest what they have decided. Every individual is a leader in his or her own right. Their governance is self-regulating and the Chiefs that represent them at the tables of negotiation must keep the people informed AND must seek approval from the people before accepting any major agreements. It is ironic that we condemn that preferring our secretive oligarchy to open and participatory democracy. We claim they are robbing us and demanding, when in fact we continue to allow miners and developers on their land al the while ignoring our own law that states we MUST consult and accommodate their interests BEFORE we do anything of the sort. We question two tiered justice that allows natives to block roads and inconvenience our 9:00 breakfast meetings while our corporations scheme on new ways to cheat us out of our hard earned cash.

When will people like you wise up and see that bringing natives together with us in a mutually respectful relationship will benefit us all. We will dopes and ostriches realize that our constant interference in their lives does not make their lives or our lives better, but in fact acerbates the problems. You try to boil it down to dollars and cents when in fact we need to look at it in lives and deaths. They aren't the demons. We are, and as long as people like you get stuck in ignorance, we'll never change. That doesn't mean that we will get better it jujst means that we will be in far worse shape tomorrow than we are today. If our hard earned cash is going to be given away anyway - something we cannot control - then we should be dealing with that today. Tomorrow the interest on that zillion dollar trust account will be richer by $5 trillion and doubling every 10 years.

Who cares if YOU have sympathy. That is not needed for justice to prevail when one has a solid legal case against us. Building fantasies instead of dealing with reality only drives you deeper into you nightmares, eventually replacing sanity with crazyness. We can't win so why should we kill each other trying?

[White Doors]

Who cares if YOU have sympathy. That is not needed for justice to prevail when one has a solid legal case against us. Building fantasies instead of dealing with reality only drives you deeper into you nightmares, eventually replacing sanity with crazyness. We can't win so why should we kill each other trying?

You should care. We are voters and parliament can enact legislation that can over ride any acts. If it is politically sellable, they can abolish the land claims and the Indian act, alter the constitution and apply the charter to natives and get rid of reserves. You name it.

That's why you should care.

If you don't start caring it will be to your own peril.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Prima donna are you?

When will people like you wise up and see that bringing natives together with us in a mutually respectful relationship will benefit us all. We will dopes and ostriches realize that our constant interference in their lives does not make their lives or our lives better, but in fact acerbates the problems. You try to boil it down to dollars and cents when in fact we need to look at it in lives and deaths. They aren't the demons. We are, and as long as people like you get stuck in ignorance, we'll never change. That doesn't mean that we will get better it jujst means that we will be in far worse shape tomorrow than we are today. If our hard earned cash is going to be given away anyway - something we cannot control - then we should be dealing with that today. Tomorrow the interest on that zillion dollar trust account will be richer by $5 trillion and doubling every 10 years.

Who cares if YOU have sympathy. That is not needed for justice to prevail when one has a solid legal case against us. Building fantasies instead of dealing with reality only drives you deeper into you nightmares, eventually replacing sanity with crazyness. We can't win so why should we kill each other trying?

I'm the prima donna in this thread? You are either a fool or brain dead if you really believe that.

Lets take this back to the root of the problem. The superior cultural advantage of the European settlers dominated the North American continent and successfully displaced the more primitive native cultures. South of the border our American friends attempted genocide as a solution to the problem, north of the border we choose negotiation over violence. Now you don't see a lot of southern natives making the same kind of noise down there as you do up here. In fact the government spends far less on them down there as we do up here. So it is fair to say that because of our less violent attitude at the time of those settlers that we are now facing the violence and ignorance of the northern natives now. This nation is being blamed for its treatment of natives, in the past.

For myself, and many others we have no desire to interfere in the lives of natives, yet the natives cannot say the same thing. For myself, and many others we have no desire to be treated as anything less than equal to all other citizens, yet the natives cannot say the same thing. Until those attitudes change, I and many other will oppose any negotiated settlement that will deliver advantageous benefit to the natives.

The reality is such that if the Jews could not get their land back, their property, their money, after the second world war then the natives will not either. The natives will get what is given to them only when and as it pleases the government. Lets cut the bull crap here and be real. The natives have special rights, and that does not sit well with many Canadians. If the natives want to get anywhere with the support of Canadians they need to seek an equal position to the rest of us, no more and no less. If the natives take that attitude they will immediately prevail. Somehow I don't think that this is very likely simply because of the childish positions they have already taken. I don't see them backing down on anything, therefore they will look forward to negotiating with their children's children. Such a waste.

We can and will win, because to do otherwise is to kill the entire nation and no government will willingly accept that. No government will forego its sovereignty and that is the cold hard reality that you need to understand. There is no such thing as total victory, there will be compromise or there will be no settlement. CR your version of reality is not based on the facts but instead your misguided ideals. Those ideals are your own and not applicable to the rest of us. Don't confuse your vision and opinions with the reality of this nation.

[myata]

When will people like you wise up and see that bringing natives together with us in a mutually respectful relationship will benefit us all.

Count me in. Unless that "mutually respectful relationship" means multi-billion payouts, forever.

Here's the thing. You can sit in the desolated overcrowded government build nobody giving any darn about falling apart cabin, waiting for the manna to start raining from the sky, and blaming whole world around you for your misery;

Or, you can find a job and take your life in your hands;

You have all the rights to make the choice; and the outcome will be the result of it. Simple. Your choice; your life; nobody to blame; responsibility.

[AngusThermopyle]

You have all the rights to make the choice; and the outcome will be the result of it. Simple. Your choice; your life; nobody to blame; responsibility.

Oh oh. You just said the taboo word, responsibility. This is what I've been advocating as part of the solution to these problems but as you can see from the reaction the entire concept is anathema to Natives and their advocates.

The very strong impression I'm getting is that they want autonomy to the extent that they dictate demands and ignore laws whilst being supported for perpetuity by the rest of us. This does not sit well with me on a personal level. All my adult life I've never asked for anything of another, never drawn welfare or unemployment, never used the health system, never asked for grants or dispensations. This being the case I see no reason why others should not attempt to practice this philosophy. Of course the health system and its use is entirely dependent on the health of individuals.

[jbg]

I'm the prima donna in this thread? You are either a fool or brain dead if you really believe that.

Lets take this back to the root of the problem. The superior cultural advantage of the European settlers dominated the North American continent and successfully displaced the more primitive native cultures. South of the border our American friends attempted genocide as a solution to the problem, north of the border we choose negotiation over violence. Now you don't see a lot of southern natives making the same kind of noise down there as you do up here. In fact the government spends far less on them down there as we do up here. So it is fair to say that because of our less violent attitude at the time of those settlers that we are now facing the violence and ignorance of the northern natives now. This nation is being blamed for its treatment of natives, in the past.

I suspect that smallpox rather than violence demoralized the native Americans and made their replacement by the European settlers far easier. The Mann book 1491 largely backs up my views on the subject. Apparently, there were approximately 30 million native Americans on both continents pre-Columbus, and the number rapidly dropped by 95% after the first exploration of the mainland. This disruption was without pattern, taking out leaders as well as woman, children and the elderly. My view is that so little was left of intact native culture that there was little resistance to alcohol and other pathologies introduced by the European settlers.

The reality is such that if the Jews could not get their land back, their property, their money, after the second world war then the natives will not either. The natives will get what is given to them only when and as it pleases the government. Lets cut the bull crap here and be real. The natives have special rights, and that does not sit well with many Canadians. If the natives want to get anywhere with the support of Canadians they need to seek an equal position to the rest of us, no more and no less. If the natives take that attitude they will immediately prevail. Somehow I don't think that this is very likely simply because of the childish positions they have already taken. I don't see them backing down on anything, therefore they will look forward to negotiating with their children's children. Such a waste.

We can and will win, because to do otherwise is to kill the entire nation and no government will willingly accept that. No government will forego its sovereignty and that is the cold hard reality that you need to understand. There is no such thing as total victory, there will be compromise or there will be no settlement. CR your version of reality is not based on the facts but instead your misguided ideals. Those ideals are your own and not applicable to the rest of us. Don't confuse your vision and opinions with the reality of this nation.

You are quite right that the natives cannot hold out for demands that are politcally or financially impossible. The Jews wound up losing most of their pre-WW II wealth, but have earned new money. For cultural reasons the native Americans are unlikely to take this tack.

[DangerMouse]

You should care. We are voters and parliament can enact legislation that can over ride any acts. If it is politically sellable, they can abolish the land claims and the Indian act, alter the constitution and apply the charter to natives and get rid of reserves. You name it.

That's why you should care.

If you don't start caring it will be to your own peril.

Go for it you retarded right winger

[DangerMouse]

I'm the prima donna in this thread? You are either a fool or brain dead if you really believe that.

Lets take this back to the root of the problem. The superior cultural advantage of the European settlers dominated the North American continent and successfully displaced the more primitive native cultures. South of the border our American friends attempted genocide as a solution to the problem, north of the border we choose negotiation over violence. Now you don't see a lot of southern natives making the same kind of noise down there as you do up here. In fact the government spends far less on them down there as we do up here. So it is fair to say that because of our less violent attitude at the time of those settlers that we are now facing the violence and ignorance of the northern natives now. This nation is being blamed for its treatment of natives, in the past.

For myself, and many others we have no desire to interfere in the lives of natives, yet the natives cannot say the same thing. For myself, and many others we have no desire to be treated as anything less than equal to all other citizens, yet the natives cannot say the same thing. Until those attitudes change, I and many other will oppose any negotiated settlement that will deliver advantageous benefit to the natives.

The reality is such that if the Jews could not get their land back, their property, their money, after the second world war then the natives will not either. The natives will get what is given to them only when and as it pleases the government. Lets cut the bull crap here and be real. The natives have special rights, and that does not sit well with many Canadians. If the natives want to get anywhere with the support of Canadians they need to seek an equal position to the rest of us, no more and no less. If the natives take that attitude they will immediately prevail. Somehow I don't think that this is very likely simply because of the childish positions they have already taken. I don't see them backing down on anything, therefore they will look forward to negotiating with their children's children. Such a waste.

We can and will win, because to do otherwise is to kill the entire nation and no government will willingly accept that. No government will forego its sovereignty and that is the cold hard reality that you need to understand. There is no such thing as total victory, there will be compromise or there will be no settlement. CR your version of reality is not based on the facts but instead your misguided ideals. Those ideals are your own and not applicable to the rest of us. Don't confuse your vision and opinions with the reality of this nation.

Jerry Fartin Jibberish! You just joined the ranks of the other retarded rightwingers...enjoy your full head of hair while you still got it I said it before and III say it again...who wrote the laws and the policies? Angus Throw-up-and-make-a-pile was busy whining about responsibility....and thats stated in the preamble of the constitution...how can there be responsibilty when there s a bunch of retards in government who have your attitudes....you havent got a clue about aboriginal issues....

[noahbody]

Jerry Fartin Jibberish! You just joined the ranks of the other retarded rightwingers...enjoy your full head of hair while you still got it I said it before and III say it again...who wrote the laws and the policies? Angus Throw-up-and-make-a-pile was busy whining about responsibility....and thats stated in the preamble of the constitution...how can there be responsibilty when there s a bunch of retards in government who have your attitudes....you havent got a clue about aboriginal issues....

Why do I have that 8, 6, 7, 5, 3, 0, 9 song in my head?

[jbg]

Why do I have that 8, 6, 7, 5, 3, 0, 9 song in my head?

I was thinking of "Fly Robin Fly" or "Get Up and Boogie".

[charter.rights]

You should care. We are voters and parliament can enact legislation that can over ride any acts. If it is politically sellable, they can abolish the land claims and the Indian act, alter the constitution and apply the charter to natives and get rid of reserves. You name it.

That's why you should care.

If you don't start caring it will be to your own peril.

You are delusional if you think that voters make policy or can change laws. In the 26 years that the Constitution was repatriated there has only been the Supreme Court strengthening the rights outlined, despite claims from people like you screaming that it is flawed and should be changed.

Secondly your delusion is even more apparent if you believe that rights "recognized" by the Charter can be removed. The fact is that the Charter only recognizes rights that are inherent, or acquired as a result of society and no where can a government or organization reduce those rights. Try telling a Black man he is no longer black because you say so. Try telling a Jew that he can't practice his religion because it violates your impractical sense of fairness. It can't be done. Countries have been invaded for the types of things you think parliament can do. It will never happen because it can't in a democratic society.

Acts of Parliament can be changed that is true, but it becomes redundant when those acts are found to violate the Charter of Rights. So again your twisted opinion doesn't meet the test of being in reality.

No one cares what you ar your redneck friends think, nor should I or anyone else. These are legal issues, held in high esteem by the Crown that owns us and our government. These issues are about charter rights that over ride your petty sour grapes, or anything you think you can put your equally biased Mp's up to. Maybe once you get a reality check too, you will realize how impotent voters are in the scheme of things where the people you vote for have other agendas, and those that don't realize pretty quickly how equally impotent they are.

There are the "White" doors. Now try if you think you can, to prevent any person of colour from walking through it......and you'll find yourself bitch-slapped with a constitutional lawsuit. This is NOT your country. It is ours - all of ours regardless of race, religion, creed, or gender. Get used to it.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I suspect that smallpox rather than violence demoralized the native Americans and made their replacement by the European settlers far easier. The Mann book 1491 largely backs up my views on the subject. Apparently, there were approximately 30 million native Americans on both continents pre-Columbus, and the number rapidly dropped by 95% after the first exploration of the mainland. This disruption was without pattern, taking out leaders as well as woman, children and the elderly. My view is that so little was left of intact native culture that there was little resistance to alcohol and other pathologies introduced by the European settlers.

You are quite right that the natives cannot hold out for demands that are politcally or financially impossible. The Jews wound up losing most of their pre-WW II wealth, but have earned new money. For cultural reasons the native Americans are unlikely to take this tack.

Well, I must agree that smallpox had a great deal to do with the drastic fall in population. However I was not speaking directly to that point when I said that the superior culture of Europeans displaced the native culture. Stone knives and bear skins are simply not effective against muskets and cannon. At that point in time when violence broke out the technological advantage of the Europeans precluded any real hope for victory by the natives. At least in terms of armed resistance anyhow. The native culture was totally destroyed, which is of course the European pattern. This did not change for many years.

Contrary to popular belief, the colonies were a way to get rid of the scum of the earth and undesirable elements. To a large degree those poor folks made up a significant portion of immigrants to North America. They were not the only ones to move here mind you, there were many others that choose to move here and settle into the New World.

On the other hand the natives were extremely advanced in social terms in spite of their lack of technological advancement. That is amazing in as much as their environment dictated the requirement for adaptability which as far as our culture at the time dictated was the limiting factor in our own development. The natives were far more attuned to nature than the Europeans. I suspect that the tribal nature of their cultural heritage was actually responsible for the lack of technological advancement as well as the reason for the advanced state of social development. Harsh conditions create the need for mutual assistance within the group in order to preserve the group, nothing new there. That little fact also caries over to society in general when considered in political terms, oppressed peoples become politically united in efforts of common cause.

Sadly much of the native culture that was lost could be said to have superior social theories than our own culture. The morals and ethics of that culture were designed around a far smaller political union than our own and I believe they were based on solid fundamental concepts that are still valid to this day. Unfortunately these things are likely to never see the light of day again, and that in itself is a tragic loss.

[JCAN]

You are delusional if you think that voters make policy or can change laws. In the 26 years that the Constitution was repatriated there has only been the Supreme Court strengthening the rights outlined, despite claims from people like you screaming that it is flawed and should be changed.

Secondly your delusion is even more apparent if you believe that rights "recognized" by the Charter can be removed. The fact is that the Charter only recognizes rights that are inherent, or acquired as a result of society and no where can a government or organization reduce those rights. Try telling a Black man he is no longer black because you say so. Try telling a Jew that he can't practice his religion because it violates your impractical sense of fairness. It can't be done. Countries have been invaded for the types of things you think parliament can do. It will never happen because it can't in a democratic society.

Acts of Parliament can be changed that is true, but it becomes redundant when those acts are found to violate the Charter of Rights. So again your twisted opinion doesn't meet the test of being in reality.

No one cares what you ar your redneck friends think, nor should I or anyone else. These are legal issues, held in high esteem by the Crown that owns us and our government. These issues are about charter rights that over ride your petty sour grapes, or anything you think you can put your equally biased Mp's up to. Maybe once you get a reality check too, you will realize how impotent voters are in the scheme of things where the people you vote for have other agendas, and those that don't realize pretty quickly how equally impotent they are.

There are the "White" doors. Now try if you think you can, to prevent any person of colour from walking through it......and you'll find yourself bitch-slapped with a constitutional lawsuit. This is NOT your country. It is ours - all of ours regardless of race, religion, creed, or gender. Get used to it.

I will just say what we all are thinking SHUT UP. We are all tired of your verbal diarrhea you try to pass off as intelligible which it is not you rely on the same tired argument and say nothing you are either a politician or an invalid either way it is the same thing, you and DM can live in your quaint little world of make believe but unless you can start to back up anything, answer some basic questions posed or be constructive keep it shut.

[charter.rights]

I will just say what we all are thinking SHUT UP. We are all tired of your verbal diarrhea you try to pass off as intelligible which it is not you rely on the same tired argument and say nothing you are either a politician or an invalid either way it is the same thing, you and DM can live in your quaint little world of make believe but unless you can start to back up anything, answer some basic questions posed or be constructive keep it shut.

Well then...I'll say it for you! STFU, FOAD!

And then go back to sleep. Reality doesn't look good on you.