Can we separate Morality from Religion? (Poll)

[Electric Monk]

Why?

[Figleaf]

I voted yes, but I'd like to split a hair here ... in my usage I think 'morality' refers to a received set of beliefs about right and wrong based on religious beliefs, and 'ethics' refers to the method and process of deciding right from wrong outside of religious dogma.

Accordingly, I would say that ethicality is separate from religion and that is what I mean by my yes-vote.

Why? Personal experience. Most of my friends are skeptical about religious claims, and as far as I can tell they all behave ethically both interpersonally and socially. I presume that this behaviour is deliberate rather than merely random.

[PocketRocket]

Yes, we can. Simply put, do not cause harm to others.

If you want to take it one step further, do not, through inaction, allow harm to come to others.

[BubberMiley]

Do you think it's possible to have morality and religion? Judging from all the wars and hatred derived from the practice of religion, and how religion distracts a person from a true, original relationship with their creator, I'd say not.

[jbg]

Why?

Lack of religion leads to moral relativism of the worst kind.

[Figleaf]

Why?

Lack of religion leads to moral relativism of the worst kind.

What is your basis for that assertion?

[Riverwind]

The question itself only really makes sense in Judeo-Christian cultures. East Asian cultures derive their sense of morality from Confucianism which is a philosophy - not a religion.

[crazymf]

I'm assuming by saying religion you mean faith in a greater deity of some kind?

Or do you mean a way of living set out in a common instruction book such as the Bible or Q'uran?

I think the two are separate issues. Hard core religious zealots commonly impose their way of life onto others such as the JW's and Mormons, not to mention the radical Muslims. Even my bible thumping regular christian cousins wind up interfering in conversations that inevitably come around to the Bible.

Religion is a problem. Faith is not.

Morality is a separate issue from religion, depending on how you define religion, IMO.

Or maybe morality based on religion merely can go to 'the dark side'.

[MightyAC]

Morals are simply a collection of beliefs relating to right and wrong. There are genereally multiple sources for an individuals set of morals and they need not be religious ones.

I am an atheist and a very moral person. I find the moral standards of many of my religious friends to be quite low. Yet some of beliefs on equality, etc make me immoral to many religious folk.

[M.Dancer]

That was a tough vote...I think agnostics and atheists have the potential to be as moral as any deist....yet, I also love cheese.

[Leafless]

Morals are simply a collection of beliefs relating to right and wrong. There are genereally multiple sources for an individuals set of morals and they need not be religious ones.

I am an atheist and a very moral person. I find the moral standards of many of my religious friends to be quite low. Yet some of beliefs on equality, etc make me immoral to many religious folk.

This is interesting!

An atheist having higher moral values than his religious friends and then asserts some of his beliefs make him immoral to many religious folks.

A contradiction to say the least.

Do you assume for one second that if in the event that this country was not dominated by Christianity but rather atheist and agnostics that morals would be totally worthless?

I really wish it would, because it would put you guys in place quick.

The only thing that is saving you now from an all out degenerative society is Christianity even though it is being beaten down by people like you. We could be though, headed in that general direction thanks also to legislation like charter rights.

[M.Dancer]

Morals are simply a collection of beliefs relating to right and wrong. There are genereally multiple sources for an individuals set of morals and they need not be religious ones.

I am an atheist and a very moral person. I find the moral standards of many of my religious friends to be quite low. Yet some of beliefs on equality, etc make me immoral to many religious folk.

Do you assume for one second that if in the event that this country was not dominated by Christianity but rather atheist and agnostics that morals would be totally worthless?

If you would have bothered to read his post and think about it, you would see he doesn't assume that at all...in fact I would think he assumes if this country was dominated by atheist and agnost like himself, morals would be just as strong.......

[Wilber]

Religions have had a large influence on what many of us consider to be moral in one way or another but to maintain that religions have a lock on what is moral and that one has to be religious to be moral is nonsense. Religions change their concept of morality over time like everyone else. How many present day Christians now consider it moral to kill and persecute non Christians or other Christians who don't abide by their concept of Christianity?

[Charles Anthony]

The strict definitions of both "morality" and "religion" make the answer to the question categoriclly "Yes" and not up to discussion.

The definition of "morality" does not place any such conditions.

The answer should be the same if we asked "Can we separate Morality from Temperature?"

[M.Dancer]

It was once part of the religion of bronze Ireland that the king would have sexual intercourse with a mare once a year......I believe they considered this act of congress to be quite moral

[Figleaf]

[

Edited July 18, 2007 by Figleaf

[M.Dancer]

It was once part of the religion of bronze Ireland that the king would have sexual intercourse with a mare once a year......I believe they considered this act of congress to be quite moral

The practice stopped a few hundred years after the introduction of christianity......

King MacGlom was standing on the platform and doing his royal duty huffing and puffing away when all the spectators started laughing at him. He was enraged and went into this long winded rant about the value of religious and cultural traditions and the decline of morality when one young turk heckled...

oh yea we kin all that ya gob shite...we be laughing at ye cause the mare ya chose is ugly.......

[Figleaf]

[

Edited July 18, 2007 by Figleaf

[Leafless]

Morals are simply a collection of beliefs relating to right and wrong. There are genereally multiple sources for an individuals set of morals and they need not be religious ones.

I am an atheist and a very moral person. I find the moral standards of many of my religious friends to be quite low. Yet some of beliefs on equality, etc make me immoral to many religious folk.

This is interesting!

An atheist having higher moral values than his religious friends and then asserts some of his beliefs make him immoral to many religious folks.

A contradiction to say the least.

How so?

He makes reference to equality which if referring to charter rights are imposed rights, not moralistic in any sense.

He makes reference that his morals trump his religious friends whose morals are lower than his yet does not state what or any of his moral values are.

This contradicts his claim of possessing higher morals.

[M.Dancer]

Morals are simply a collection of beliefs relating to right and wrong. There are genereally multiple sources for an individuals set of morals and they need not be religious ones.

I am an atheist and a very moral person. I find the moral standards of many of my religious friends to be quite low. Yet some of beliefs on equality, etc make me immoral to many religious folk.

This is interesting!

An atheist having higher moral values than his religious friends and then asserts some of his beliefs make him immoral to many religious folks.

A contradiction to say the least.

How so?

He makes reference to equality which if referring to charter rights are imposed rights, not moralistic in any sense.

He makes reference that his morals trump his religious friends whose morals are lower than his yet does not state what or any of his moral values are.

This contradicts his claim of possessing higher morals.

Dude, spare yourself the humiliation and look up contradiction in one of those word books eh/?

[Figleaf]

[

Edited July 18, 2007 by Figleaf

[MightyAC]

He makes reference to equality which if referring to charter rights are imposed rights, not moralistic in any sense.

He makes reference that his morals trump his religious friends whose morals are lower than his yet does not state what or any of his moral values are.

This contradicts his claim of possessing higher morals.

Sorry if I my statement was unclear. I was trying to illustrate that certain religious friends and I both feel that we are morally superior to each other, and that our set of morals are derived from completely different sources.

In my opinion, based on my morals I live to a higher moral standard. In their opinion and based on their moral code they would feel the opposite. Thus I feel that religion is not a requirement for being moral.

I also feel that too often people expect that others should live by their personal moral code and fail to realize that there is not one a one size fits all package that suits everyone.

[Figleaf]

The idea that ethics(morals) can't exist without religion doesn't just strike me as incorrect. It seems, moreover to be nobsensical. Maybe some religious type will help me understand by answering this question:

If you poll a religious person and a non-religious personand each one tells you she thinks "Murder is wrong", how is one moral and the other not?

[Leafless]

The idea that ethics(morals) can't exist without religion doesn't just strike me as incorrect. It seems, moreover to be nobsensical. Maybe some religious type will help me understand by answering this question:

If you poll a religious person and a non-religious personand each one tells you she thinks "Murder is wrong", how is one moral and the other not?

Although I am not overly religious but definitely support Christianity for reasons pertaining to culture and to the goodness of promoting an anti-pagan society, I will attempt to answer your question.

Relating to Christianity, God teaches "Thou shalt no kill", so killing or murdering is totally against the law of God with absolutely no justification to kill whatever the reason and which also constitutes a mortal sin. This of course is coupled with my private convictions as to why it is wrong to kill.

Relating to secularism, if I learned or came to my own conclusion that it is wrong to kill but with no conviction other than my own logic, I could be tempted to kill for reasons I consider justifiable and could very well complete the act depending on circumstance.

[M.Dancer]

Relating to Christianity, God teaches "Thou shalt no kill", so killing or murdering is totally against the law of God with absolutely no justification to kill whatever the reason and which also constitutes a mortal sin. This of course is coupled with my private convictions as to why it is wrong to kill.

You might want to consider not only reading the bible, but bible commentary. Killing according to the bible can not only be justified, but sometimes demanded by God.