"Labrador communities fear losing net connection"...

[Rovik]

The Conservatives in all their wisdom are cutting vital funds for labrador communities to connect ot the Internet. These communities are some of most remote communities in all of Canada and don't have the money of a typical Albertan town. It will be devastating to many in these communites. If the Conservatives have a heart they should cancel this cut in funds.

From the article Labrador communities fear losing net connection

Residents of isolated communities along the Labrador coast fear they may lose vital connections to the internet.

The federal government announced last week that its participation in the cost-shared Community Access Program will end in December, as part of a $1-billion cost-cutting plan.

The cut may mean the closure of 21 internet sites in Labrador. In many coastal communities, the only efficient way to connect to the internet is via satellite.

[watching&waiting]

this is just so much BS that I have to laugh. Anyone anywhere can now get full interenet access by satellete no phone required any where in canada as long as you have a computer and of course the hydro to run it. The initial cost of the equipment is $600.00 and the plans start at $49.95 per month. So where it there a problem here. You can get this any where in Canada. There is no need for the Federal government to be involved with any of this, as it is affordable and reliable, and and it makes any llandline based internet look down right slow. So it is about time the government realised this and got out of the internet access business

See here for details http://www.xplornet.com/

[geoffrey]

There ya go, it's not an expensive as it once was. Can't afford it? Get the community involved, one satellite connection can support a small internet cafe, costs everyone like .40 cents a month and $6 to get in for a community of 100 people.

Why must everyone expect the government to do everything for them? Sheesh.

[sharkman]

Yeah, those nasty Tories are making government smaller, the weasels!

[Leafless]

Yeah, those nasty Tories are making government smaller, the weasels!

Residents of Labrador won't be getting all that FREE Liberal anti-Conservative propaganda anymore.

Hopefully the tax-payer funded CBC will be next.

You want to watch your brand of political propaganda, YOU PAY FOR IT and stop forcing all Canadians to pay for Liberal anti-Conservatism propaganda.

[Argus]

The Conservatives in all their wisdom are cutting vital funds for labrador communities to connect ot the Internet. These communities are some of most remote communities in all of Canada and don't have the money of a typical Albertan town. It will be devastating to many in these communites. If the Conservatives have a heart they should cancel this cut in funds.

Gotta love this. Not only is the federal government "heartless" for not providing cheap internet access to people, but he manages to get in a shot at Albertans too, for no particular reason other than Albertans don't vote Liberal.

[Rovik]

My goodness, quite the backlash from the right-wingers here.

Several points here:

- The article cites $220 a month, therefore say about $2680 a year per community, so in a 100 redisent community this would be almost $27.00 per person. How about a family of 4 in this 100 resident community; well that's $27 x 4 = $108 per family.

- Second, many of these communities have less than 100 residents, therefore the costs to residents would much more per person.

- Third, many of these people are seasonal workers, therefore cash flow (when the fishery is in offseason) would be a problem. Even an extra $27 might be a luxury when one is on a tight budget.

- Fourth, many people don't have a computer and/or Internet access in their own homes, therefore for people who can't afford a computer or Internet, this access is a no-cost tool for them to do such things as research for a school project or email to friends and relatives elsewhere and too put them on a more even level field with families who can afford computers and Internet service

I made the example of the Albertan town because, most because they can afford to put in place such an activity (because of the benefits of been in such an oil-rich province,) many of these towns on the Labrador Coast can't. And to suggest it has anything to do with Albertans not voting Liberal is completely ludicrous.

[Leader Circle]

"The cut may mean the closure of 21 internet sites in Labrador."

The main word there is "MAY"! Nothing is for sure, but this nitwit is saying it like it is a for sure!

More chicken little Liberal BS!

[Rovik]

"The cut may mean the closure of 21 internet sites in Labrador."

The main word there is "MAY"! Nothing is for sure, but this nitwit is saying it like it is a for sure!

More chicken little Liberal BS!

"This nitwit"...well, well...I've either flustered you or you don't know how to respond civically so you resort to childish name calling.

Tell you what. If it doesn't go ahead, I'll post that info as well. Be the fair thing to do

[Leader Circle]

"The cut may mean the closure of 21 internet sites in Labrador."

The main word there is "MAY"! Nothing is for sure, but this nitwit is saying it like it is a for sure!

More chicken little Liberal BS!

"This nitwit"...well, well...I've either flustered you or you don't know how to respond civically so you resort to childish name calling.

Tell you what. If it doesn't go ahead, I'll post that info as well. Be the fair thing to do

If I could have thought of another name for someone who posts such foolishness, I would have used it, but nitwit was what came to mind. Can I get you a kleenex?

[Rovik]

If I could have thought of another name for someone who posts such foolishness, I would have used it, but nitwit was what came to mind. Can I get you a kleenex?

I'm sure that the people in coastal Labrador don't think it's foolishness.

Kleenex sounds nice, the three-ply Ultra if you got it.

[Higgly]

How many of you who are playing up the triviality of this have actually ever been to one of these communities? For the most part, these people have few resources to call on. Considering the bags o' dough that get ploughed into major centres, highways, what have you, and which these people never see a penny of, I would say that a couple of thousand bucks per community per year for something like this is really very small potatoes. Begrudging something like this to them is pretty petty IMHO.

As usual, some right wing hysteric has got to drag the CBC into the fray. I would rebutt his comment but I DON'T WANT TO HIJACK THE THREAD.

[Ricki Bobbi]

My goodness, quite the backlash from the right-wingers here.

- Third, many of these people are seasonal workers, therefore cash flow (when the fishery is in offseason) would be a problem. Even an extra $27 might be a luxury when one is on a tight budget.

I made the example of the Albertan town because, most because they can afford to put in place such an activity (because of the benefits of been in such an oil-rich province,) many of these towns on the Labrador Coast can't. And to suggest it has anything to do with Albertans not voting Liberal is completely ludicrous.

The Internet is a luxury. Not a necessity of life.

Let me get this straight, you start your comeback by attacking *right-wingers* but you aren't anti-Albertan. Hmmm, interesting.

Why not attack Ontario, with the benefits of years of lopsided industrial policy and proximity to big U.S. markets?

Why not attack BC, with a resource and tourism rich economy?

Because Ontario and BC vote more along the lines of your thinking. i.e. not right wing....

Good work Rovik.

[watching&waiting]

What I posted is the cost and I do know of what I talk about. I gave my brother a satellite company years ago and he is one of the main installers for Explornet for eastern ont. The prices are real and it can be had anywhere in Canada even the artic. There is no need to have the federal government pay for this access and if I can afford it as a single family then so can they. The fact that were quoted in the original article are totally false and the costs are nowhere near what they say. Also the point was made that this can easily be networked to give many families access to the net. This is not a right wing agenda, but just a good old common sense reaction to a wrongful story. It takes all of two hours to have it installed and running, and that includes stopping for a coffee. I would guess if you had to have someone fly north to do this it would be more, but I can teach a person from scratch in less then a day, and then their community would have that ability themsleves.

Once again this story was a non starter and shoudl never have been used in this way, as it only makes the writers of it look bad.

[August1991]

How many of you who are playing up the triviality of this have actually ever been to one of these communities? For the most part, these people have few resources to call on. Considering the bags o' dough that get ploughed into major centres, highways, what have you, and which these people never see a penny of, I would say that a couple of thousand bucks per community per year for something like this is really very small potatoes. Begrudging something like this to them is pretty petty IMHO.

Petty? Is it?

Higgly, it happens that I really, really want to live on a beautiful, small island in a river flowing into James Bay. (It's a long story to explain how I know about this island but suffice to say it involved a canoe trip.)

Now then, do I have the right to insist that other Canadians send me every month all the food and supplies so that I can fulfil my dream to live decently on a small island in the middle of nowhere? To what extent are we our brother's keeper?

If these are not question enough, consider this last one. At one point do my brothers prefer to stop working and do nothing rather than have a portion of their grocery cart taken from them and sent to me?

[Riverwind]

Now then, do I have the right to insist that other Canadians send me every month all the food and supplies so that I can fulfil my dream to live decently on a small island in the middle of nowhere? To what extent are we our brother's keeper?

Good question. We seem to have a knee jerk nostalgic response to family farms and rural communities that does not seem to have any rational basis. I don't see the benefit of keeping people in rural communities if there is no source of economic activity that can generate enough revenue to pay the cost of keeping them there.

[Rovik]

The Internet is a luxury. Not a necessity of life.

Let me get this straight, you start your comeback by attacking *right-wingers* but you aren't anti-Albertan. Hmmm, interesting.

Why not attack Ontario, with the benefits of years of lopsided industrial policy and proximity to big U.S. markets?

Why not attack BC, with a resource and tourism rich economy?

Because Ontario and BC vote more along the lines of your thinking. i.e. not right wing....

Good work Rovik.

Let me get this straight. Just because I question right wingers, I'm automatically anti-Albertan?!?!

Well, it could also be a typical town in BC or Ontario. Uh Oh. Guess i might be labelled as anti-BC or anti-Ontario now.

Askl students that don't have a computer and Internet access at home if the Internet isn't important. They are at a big disadvantage iin regard to studying and research for homework assignments without the Internet , that is just a fact of life in this day and age.

[Rovik]

What I posted is the cost and I do know of what I talk about. I gave my brother a satellite company years ago and he is one of the main installers for Explornet for eastern ont. The prices are real and it can be had anywhere in Canada even the artic. There is no need to have the federal government pay for this access and if I can afford it as a single family then so can they. The fact that were quoted in the original article are totally false and the costs are nowhere near what they say. Also the point was made that this can easily be networked to give many families access to the net. This is not a right wing agenda, but just a good old common sense reaction to a wrongful story. It takes all of two hours to have it installed and running, and that includes stopping for a coffee. I would guess if you had to have someone fly north to do this it would be more, but I can teach a person from scratch in less then a day, and then their community would have that ability themsleves.

Once again this story was a non starter and shoudl never have been used in this way, as it only makes the writers of it look bad.

If you believe that the writers of this article have cited inaccuracies, then perhaps you should contact them and question them about it and then post their response here.

And even if the costs are closer to say $1500 instead of $2000, many people still wouldn't able to afford it. You have to remember that the coast of Labrador is one of the poorest parts of Canada and coming up with that kind of money would be hard for a lot of families

[Rovik]

...it happens that I really, really want to live on a beautiful, small island in a river flowing into James Bay. (It's a long story to explain how I know about this island but suffice to say it involved a canoe trip.)

Now then, do I have the right to insist that other Canadians send me every month all the food and supplies so that I can fulfil my dream to live decently on a small island in the middle of nowhere? To what extent are we our brother's keeper?

If these are not question enough, consider this last one. At one point do my brothers prefer to stop working and do nothing rather than have a portion of their grocery cart taken from them and sent to me?

We are not talking about some vacation home or some dream home. We are talking about people who work hard for half of the year and live on EI for the other half because there is no work. They are not leaving in luxury, that's for sure. There are no movie theatres, there are no stadiums, there are no Tim Horton's or even MacDonalds. Economic realities are much different here than much of the rest of Canada.

[Charles Anthony]

We are not talking about some vacation home or some dream home. We are talking about people who work hard for

You are missing the point.

Those people choose to live there. I have driven to Labrador (not all of it but enough of it) and I have seen that:

1) it is peaceful and beautiful

2) there is not much commercial activity there for me to earn a living.

The point is: to what degree must OTHER people pay for what people in Labrador (or anywhere for that matter) want or need? You must answer that question.

Now, I will stop playing the devil's advocate and go back to playing the devil...

Now then, do I have the right to insist that other Canadians send me every month all the food and supplies so that I can fulfil my dream to live decently on a small island in the middle of nowhere? To what extent are we our brother's keeper?

The same right that you have to insist that other Canadians pay for your law and order and garbage pickup and road maintenance and national security and national currency and all of the other things behind which statists hide.

Are we (in the bigger cities) willing to give up our dependence on the state too???

[Leader Circle]

...it happens that I really, really want to live on a beautiful, small island in a river flowing into James Bay. (It's a long story to explain how I know about this island but suffice to say it involved a canoe trip.)

Now then, do I have the right to insist that other Canadians send me every month all the food and supplies so that I can fulfil my dream to live decently on a small island in the middle of nowhere? To what extent are we our brother's keeper?

If these are not question enough, consider this last one. At one point do my brothers prefer to stop working and do nothing rather than have a portion of their grocery cart taken from them and sent to me?

We are not talking about some vacation home or some dream home. We are talking about people who work hard for half of the year and live on EI for the other half because there is no work. They are not leaving in luxury, that's for sure. There are no movie theatres, there are no stadiums, there are no Tim Horton's or even MacDonalds. Economic realities are much different here than much of the rest of Canada.

Hey, I grew up in a town just like that, but I left, because I did not want the dole. I wanted to work year round. (Sorry if that word, "work" scares you lefties!) I had no theater, no Timmy's, no McDee's and no high speed internet either yet, my story never made national news??? Maybe my skin is the wrong color? Or my sexual preference is wrong? If I was a flamer, I'd have made the news no problem or an indian. Instead, I am a lowly white guy who had to travel 5500 kms to find some steady work!

So my suggestion...leave that frozen hole and go find some work, if you won't you're a lazy sack of shit

[Ricki Bobbi]

b]We are talking about people who work hard for half of the year[/b]

Why not move somewhere where they can work hard *all* year. Like a lot of us on this site?

[Rovik]

[Hey, I grew up in a town just like that, but I left, because I did not want the dole. I wanted to work year round. (Sorry if that word, "work" scares you lefties!) I had no theater, no Timmy's, no McDee's and no high speed internet either yet, my story never made national news??? Maybe my skin is the wrong color? Or my sexual preference is wrong? If I was a flamer, I'd have made the news no problem or an indian. Instead, I am a lowly white guy who had to travel 5500 kms to find some steady work!

So my suggestion...leave that frozen hole and go find some work, if you won't you're a lazy sack of shit

I don't live on the coast of Labrador or any outports in Newfoundland, work at a good job in St. John's (and hard work doesn't scare me), never been on EI but I'm glad that there is something there that these people can fall back on.

Most of the younger people in these communities have left for the west or if they were lucky found a job in the St. John's area or the nickel or iron ore mines up in Labrador. The seasonal workers tend to be older, late 40s and up with little or no education and all they know how to do is fish. Many have built their own houses or have houses pasted down by their parents with little or no mortgage. So would you tell these people to work at some menial job in Alberta, living in a basement apartment paying >$1000 month rent. Many of these people would be worse off, not better and you expect these people to willingly go to where they would be not as happy?

Before you left to find your job, did you have an education? Were relatively young? Have a job waiting for you? Have accomdations waiting for you? If you said yes to even one of these questions, you were in much better shape then many of the people I talked about.

There was a interesting interview on CBC Newfoundland last week with a lady in Calgary who dealt with the homeless. She basically said that unless you have a place to stay before you get to Calgary, it would be best not to come. She said that she has seen many people from Atlantic Canada with good paying jobs lined up but were forced to live on the streets or out of their cars because there were no where they could stay. One individual who came from Newfoundland and who secured a good job before he left Newfoundland ended up on the streets for he had no place to stay and got hooked on some heavy drugs. This was pretty scary stuff to me and made me glad that I wasn't in that position.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Most of the younger people in these communities have left for the west or if they were lucky found a job in the St. John's area or the nickel or iron ore mines up in Labrador. The seasonal workers tend to be older, late 40s and up with little or no education and all they know how to do is fish. Many have built their own houses or have houses pasted down by their parents with little or no mortgage. So would you tell these people to work at some menial job in Alberta, living in a basement apartment paying >$1000 month rent. Many of these people would be worse off, not better and you expect these people to willingly go to where they would be not as happy?

There was a interesting interview on CBC Newfoundland last week with a lady in Calgary who dealt with the homeless. She basically said that unless you have a place to stay before you get to Calgary, it would be best not to come. She said that she has seen many people from Atlantic Canada with good paying jobs lined up but were forced to live on the streets or out of their cars because there were no where they could stay. One individual who came from Newfoundland and who secured a good job before he left Newfoundland ended up on the streets for he had no place to stay and got hooked on some heavy drugs. This was pretty scary stuff to me and made me glad that I wasn't in that position.

Wouldn't force these people to move if they didn't want to. But that still doesn't mean the government should pay for their internet. If they want it they can pay for it.

I've been back in Calgary for about six months. In the last week or so I have noticed the housing market cooling off. Apartment buildings with for rent signs that are up for weeks. Houses and condos staying on the market for weeks and months instead of hours and days.

>$1,000 a month for basement apartments might be in Fort McMurray but not in Calgary or Edmonton.

It is much, much easier to find an apatment now than it was four months ago, when I luckily found my place.

I pay a good price for my apartment. I talked to the landlord when I took it for July 1st. He easily could have gotten at least $300 a month more than I am paying in the market as it was then. He said that there was no reason to be greedy and if he charged the top of the market people would leave as soon as things cooled off a little. A short four months later he is looking pretty shrewd with that one.

[Leader Circle]

[Hey, I grew up in a town just like that, but I left, because I did not want the dole. I wanted to work year round. (Sorry if that word, "work" scares you lefties!) I had no theater, no Timmy's, no McDee's and no high speed internet either yet, my story never made national news??? Maybe my skin is the wrong color? Or my sexual preference is wrong? If I was a flamer, I'd have made the news no problem or an indian. Instead, I am a lowly white guy who had to travel 5500 kms to find some steady work!

So my suggestion...leave that frozen hole and go find some work, if you won't you're a lazy sack of shit

I don't live on the coast of Labrador or any outports in Newfoundland, work at a good job in St. John's (and hard work doesn't scare me), never been on EI but I'm glad that there is something there that these people can fall back on.

Most of the younger people in these communities have left for the west or if they were lucky found a job in the St. John's area or the nickel or iron ore mines up in Labrador. The seasonal workers tend to be older, late 40s and up with little or no education and all they know how to do is fish. Many have built their own houses or have houses pasted down by their parents with little or no mortgage. So would you tell these people to work at some menial job in Alberta, living in a basement apartment paying >$1000 month rent. Many of these people would be worse off, not better and you expect these people to willingly go to where they would be not as happy?

Before you left to find your job, did you have an education? Were relatively young? Have a job waiting for you? Have accomdations waiting for you? If you said yes to even one of these questions, you were in much better shape then many of the people I talked about.

There was a interesting interview on CBC Newfoundland last week with a lady in Calgary who dealt with the homeless. She basically said that unless you have a place to stay before you get to Calgary, it would be best not to come. She said that she has seen many people from Atlantic Canada with good paying jobs lined up but were forced to live on the streets or out of their cars because there were no where they could stay. One individual who came from Newfoundland and who secured a good job before he left Newfoundland ended up on the streets for he had no place to stay and got hooked on some heavy drugs. This was pretty scary stuff to me and made me glad that I wasn't in that position.

When I left I was 23, I went to college, but never graduated. I left home with 2 bags of clothes and $1000 and no plan, but a couch at my buddies apartment. I was willing to work and that was all the requirment for finding a job. That was 10 years ago and things couldn't be better. Smart move for many, but you have to accept that you may never return home and be willing to work...and that is tough for some!