jbg Posted November 20, 2007 Report Posted November 20, 2007 I'm sure that is what Brian Mulroney thought and after alienating his base over many years, lost the west and then the entire PC party federally.Harper strikes me as far more sincere. Also, not being a Quebecker, his overall loyalty to Canada is not deeply suspect. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jdobbin Posted November 20, 2007 Report Posted November 20, 2007 Harper strikes me as far more sincere. Also, not being a Quebecker, his overall loyalty to Canada is not deeply suspect. And yet even in Alberta many polls show that the people there don't consider him a westerner. Quote
jennie Posted November 20, 2007 Report Posted November 20, 2007 Bribery.Well, I still insist that the deal was arms length, it was comparable to the Boeing deal, we weren't ripped off. Where was the bribe? Many years after when Mulroney got paid to do consulting work? Do you expect him to never work again after office just in case someone thinks something bad happened? The government was wrong to slander him, it's proven in their speedy settlement of the issue. I insist there is nothing wrong with giving a good deal to a friend/business partner, it was clearly arms length. It was a bribe. Mulroney was paid off when he was still an MP. The final payment was (conveniently) after he was out of office. It was still a bribe. Read Mulroney's letters to Schreiber telling him how to cover it up, call it something else ... "consulting fees". It was a bribe. Quote If you are claiming a religious exemption from the hate law, please say so up front. If you have no religious exemption, please keep hateful thoughts to yourself. Thank you. MY Canada includes Rights of Indigenous Peoples.
Michael Bluth Posted November 20, 2007 Report Posted November 20, 2007 Read Mulroney's letters to Schreiber telling him how to cover it up, call it something else ... "consulting fees". It was a bribe. Sure I'll read them. Where did you find them? Quote No one has ever defeated the Liberals with a divided conservative family. - Hon. Jim Prentice
Wild Bill Posted November 20, 2007 Report Posted November 20, 2007 I'm sure that is what Brian Mulroney thought and after alienating his base over many years, lost the west and then the entire PC party federally. Quite right! This is the danger of too much game playing amongst political advisers. They can get so wrapped up in one area they forget about others or take them for granted. Also, Harper came in with many new players to his adviser team. There's a tendency in all groups for new guys to think they know it all and to disparage previous players. In effect they believe that the mere fact that they needed new blood is proof that ALL the old blood was wrong! This of course is totally illogical, being based more on arrogance than clear perspective. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day! A clear example of this would be the John Tory campaign in the recent Ontario election. A noted observer and Tory adviser named Michael Bliss quit Tory's team of advisers and was quoted as saying that the team was made up of a bunch of young Turks who thought they knew it all and had no knowledge of the history of the reaction when separate schools were first funded and the danger of making it a campaign issue today. Bliss was proven quite correct, in spades! Meanwhile, all those "young Turks" are going to frantically try to erase the record of the worst campaign in Ontario's history from their resumes. After that spectacular free fall plummet to total abject failure in the polls, having to admit you were one of the advisers is like a tv network exec admitting he was one of those who first cancelled Star Trek... Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
jefferiah Posted November 21, 2007 Report Posted November 21, 2007 And yet even in Alberta many polls show that the people there don't consider him a westerner. They actually ask on the poll "Do you consider Harper to be a Westerner?" Quote "Governing a great nation is like cooking a small fish - too much handling will spoil it." Lao Tzu
jdobbin Posted November 21, 2007 Report Posted November 21, 2007 They actually ask on the poll "Do you consider Harper to be a Westerner?" They did. The poll was posted in the forums a few months ago. http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2007/10...4550032-cp.html The Canadian Press Harris-Decima poll, an online survey of 1,400 residents from the four western provinces, found that 42 per cent said they thought of the prime minister as a western Canadian, but 58 per cent did not. Quote
capricorn Posted November 21, 2007 Report Posted November 21, 2007 Well this is interesting. http://www.canada.com/topics/news/politics...21b&k=74718 "Luc Lavoie told CanWest News Service that when Mulroney left politics in 1993, he had money pressures since he was "not a rich man" at the head of a young family with certain lifestyle expectations. snip He said the prime minister's salary was nowhere near comparable to the one Mulroney earned as president of a major corporation, Iron Ore, prior to his political career. "So when he left, he had no money. He was optimistic, he was going back to his old law firm but there is a difference between optimistic and having the revenue," said Lavoie. "So the man kind of - I wouldn't say 'anguished' - but worried about how the future would unfold." snip "Then he said 'I would give you $100,000 a year' and then he pulled out an envelope with $100,000 and Mr. Mulroney said 'what is that.' He said 'well, I want to pay you in cash.' So Mr. Mulroney asked a few questions. 'Why would you do this in cash' and all that," said Lavoie. "And he said, 'well, I'm an international businessman and that's the way I deal. I always deal in cash.' And this is when Mr. Mulroney admits today that he made a colossal mistake. He should not have gone for it." It almost sounds like this is a preview of Mulroney's testimony, whenever that happens. I wonder whether this was intentionally handed to the press. I can't think of any other reason for Lavoie speaking on this now and so candidly. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
Riverwind Posted November 21, 2007 Report Posted November 21, 2007 It almost sounds like this is a preview of Mulroney's testimony, whenever that happens. I wonder whether this was intentionally handed to the press. I can't think of any other reason for Lavoie speaking on this now and so candidly.Mulroney woudl not be in this mess if he was this candid when the matter first came up.... Quote To fly a plane, you need both a left wing and a right wing.
capricorn Posted November 21, 2007 Report Posted November 21, 2007 Mulroney woudl not be in this mess if he was this candid when the matter first came up.... You got that right! Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
jbg Posted November 21, 2007 Report Posted November 21, 2007 Mulroney woudl not be in this mess if he was this candid when the matter first came up....One has to be very intelligent to keep multiple stories straight. I'm too dumb to memorize more than one version of a story. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jdobbin Posted November 22, 2007 Report Posted November 22, 2007 Looks like the Opposition has struck a deal to get Shreiber to testify to the Ethics committee. http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories The opposition parties have struck a deal to have the House of Commons Ethics committee study the Mulroney-Schreiber affair, CTV News has learned.A motion to be voted on Thursday will also call for Karlheinz Schreiber to appear before the committee as soon as possible, according to an MP who sits on the committee. The opposition parties, which outnumber the Conservatives, want the committee to have a broad study of Brian Mulroney's dealings with Schreiber. They also want to examine Prime Minister Stephen Harper's conduct and that of the Privy Council Office in the way they handled letters Schreiber had sent Harper in March 2007. Harper has said he never received the Schreiber letter and that his officials passed it on to relevant officials at the Justice department. In those letters, Schreiber alleged that he discussed $300,000 in cash payments with Mulroney at Harrington Lake two days before Mulroney retired as prime minister. I wonder if Pat Martin will be able to control his temper long enough to let the testimony happen. Quote
M.Dancer Posted November 22, 2007 Report Posted November 22, 2007 Every time is see the title of this thread I want to scream YES YES A THOUSANDS TIMES YES> Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Argus Posted November 22, 2007 Report Posted November 22, 2007 Ever since recent revelations by The Globe and Mail and the CBC made the public aware of new facts and allegations about the relationship between Mr. Mulroney and Mr. Schreiber, opposition politicians have rushed to judgment. Recklessly, they have used innuendo, loaded language and guilt by association to blacken the reputation of people against whom there is not the slightest evidence of wrongdoing William Johnson in the Globe and Mail It seems to me that what we're witnessing is the crass misuse of the House privilage to say whatever you want without being sued by gutter-crawling opposition member who want to slander and smear anyone and everyone without being brough to task for it. As Johnson has said, there's really no evidence of any crime being commited, much less a "cover-up" by the present government. But that hasn't stopped Dion and Layton and their cadre of grasping, soulless sleazy comrades from desperately throwing as much muck as they can in hopes of making political gains. I hope more of them forget where they are and make similar statements outside the House so Mulroney and others can sue them too. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
jdobbin Posted November 22, 2007 Report Posted November 22, 2007 It seems to me that what we're witnessing is the crass misuse of the House privilage to say whatever you want without being sued by gutter-crawling opposition member who want to slander and smear anyone and everyone without being brough to task for it. As Johnson has said, there's really no evidence of any crime being commited, much less a "cover-up" by the present government. But that hasn't stopped Dion and Layton and their cadre of grasping, soulless sleazy comrades from desperately throwing as much muck as they can in hopes of making political gains. I hope more of them forget where they are and make similar statements outside the House so Mulroney and others can sue them too. So far Mulroney's lawyer has not notified anyone that they are being sued. I wonder if we ever will considering that it may eventually lead to the bottom of the $300,000 paid out to Mulroney. Quote
Shakeyhands Posted November 22, 2007 Report Posted November 22, 2007 Well this is quite interesting.... The ethics committee voted today to look into the past business dealings between former prime minister Brian Mulroney and the German-Canadian businessman. Those dealings — particularly $300,000 in cash paid to Mulroney in hotel rooms — are also the subject of a pending public inquiry The committee agreed to call Schreiber to testify next Tuesday, because he faces extradition to Germany on Dec. 1 to face fraud charges. Mulroney will be asked to appear Dec. 4, 6 and 11. But most especially this part.... The five Conservative members of the committee voted against the probe, but the seven opposition MPs approved it. I wonder why the CPC members of the Ethics Committee woudl vote against getting to the bottom of this... Despite a public inquiry, I would think this one might be interesting. http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/278991 Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
noahbody Posted November 22, 2007 Report Posted November 22, 2007 Well this is quite interesting....But most especially this part.... I wonder why the CPC members of the Ethics Committee woudl vote against getting to the bottom of this... Despite a public inquiry, I would think this one might be interesting. http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/278991 On question period, Ralph Goodale was going on and on about how the committee is needed to look into why this government did nothing after it was contacted by Schreiber. The point he didn't seem to want to address was that his former boss, Paul Martin, was contacted by Schreiber in 2003 and did nothing. Quote
Shakeyhands Posted November 22, 2007 Report Posted November 22, 2007 On question period, Ralph Goodale was going on and on about how the committee is needed to look into why this government did nothing after it was contacted by Schreiber. The point he didn't seem to want to address was that his former boss, Paul Martin, was contacted by Schreiber in 2003 and did nothing. It always comes back to the Liberals doesn't it? No matter what this current gov't does, the Liberals were always worse.... That one wears thin after a while. I simply wonder why all the CPC'rs would vote against it, I mean its not like they are able to vote without direct direction from the PMO. Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
gc1765 Posted November 22, 2007 Report Posted November 22, 2007 The five Conservative members of the committee voted against the probe, but the seven opposition MPs approved it. And this is from the party that campaigned on ethics and accountability... Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
Keepitsimple Posted November 22, 2007 Report Posted November 22, 2007 And this is from the party that campaigned on ethics and accountability... Why indeed. Knowing without fail that they would lose the vote, why would the Conservative members vote against the probe? Could it be that they are disgusted with how Schreiber and the opposition has cheapened Parliament by giving so much "credibility" to a proven perjuror? Could it be that the Conservatives believe in letting due process take it's course? Could it be that simple - a matter of principle? So lets see what in fact, this probe accomplishes - other than to provide a platform for Mr. Schreiber to take one last stab at blackmailing gullible politicians into providing him a way to avoid prosecution in Germany. Quote Back to Basics
Argus Posted November 22, 2007 Report Posted November 22, 2007 It always comes back to the Liberals doesn't it? No matter what this current gov't does, the Liberals were always worse.... That one wears thin after a while. Not when it's the very same people in the Liberal Party now making accusations. But you wouldn't care about Liberal corruption, because corruption isn't something that bothers you anyway. It's just conservatives you hate. I simply wonder why all the CPC'rs would vote against it, I mean its not like they are able to vote without direct direction from the PMO. Maybe because they know none of the opposition MPs on that committee has the slightest interest in anything even remotely approaching actual inquiry. The only point to their investigation will be to try and score political points against the tories and to make sleazy, libelous statements in a forum where they can't be sued. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 22, 2007 Report Posted November 22, 2007 So far Mulroney's lawyer has not notified anyone that they are being sued. I wonder if we ever will considering that it may eventually lead to the bottom of the $300,000 paid out to Mulroney. Comments by a Liberal MP about Brian Mulroney's dealings with jailed German-Canadian businessperson Karlheinz Schreiber were malicious and defamatory, the former Conservative prime minister is alleging in a new lawsuit. In a statement of claim filed in Ontario Superior Court, Mulroney cites several statements West Nova member Robert Thibault made in a television interview Oct. 31. London Free Press Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
jdobbin Posted November 22, 2007 Report Posted November 22, 2007 Comments by a Liberal MP about Brian Mulroney's dealings with jailed German-Canadian businessperson Karlheinz Schreiber were malicious and defamatory, the former Conservative prime minister is alleging in a new lawsuit. In a statement of claim filed in Ontario Superior Court, Mulroney cites several statements West Nova member Robert Thibault made in a television interview Oct. 31. London Free Press Thibault spoke on the subject just yesterday and says that he nor his lawyer have heard anything thus far. We're not likely to hear anything before December 11 because that is when Mulroney's suit against Shreiber is being heard and some of what Thibault says seems to touch on there. Quote
jbg Posted November 23, 2007 Report Posted November 23, 2007 It always comes back to the Liberals doesn't it? No matter what this current gov't does, the Liberals were always worse.... That one wears thin after a while. The Liberals were in for just over 12 years, 10 1/2 of them with a majority. Harper's been in with a majority just under two years. That's a distinction in and of itself. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Drea Posted November 23, 2007 Report Posted November 23, 2007 Pssst. Jbg........Harper has a minority. Quote ...jealous much? Booga Booga! Hee Hee Hee
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