Did the Pope Slander Islam?

[daddyhominum]

http://tinyurl.com/j7uuh

or

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict...ensburg_en.html

Read the actual speech that has angered Muslims around the world.

[Argus]

http://tinyurl.com/j7uuh

or

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict...ensburg_en.html

Read the actual speech that has angered Muslims around the world.

As I HIGHLY doubt many Muslims have read the actual speech (illiteracy being quite high in the Muslim world), I would say "read the actual speech which had a small portion quoted out of context and then brayed out to the Muslim world so they could start tearing at their beards again."

[Riverwind]

Read the actual speech that has angered Muslims around the world.

You don't need to read the speech to know the comments were likely taken out of context. On the other hand, the previous Pope apparently had all of his speeches reviewed by people who looked for anything that could be taken out of context. I suspect the current Pope will be doing the same thing from now on.

[Argus]

Read the actual speech that has angered Muslims around the world.

You don't need to read the speech to know the comments were likely taken out of context. On the other hand, the previous Pope apparently had all of his speeches reviewed by people who looked for anything that could be taken out of context. I suspect the current Pope will be doing the same thing from now on.

The current pope is an academic and was speaking to a crowd of academics - not to illiterate goat herders.

[gerryhatrick]

I read the speech. It is just as bad when taken in full context.

This Pope is no stranger to being an idiot. Recall what he said about Turkey entering the EU.

Look at what he did to protect pedophiles in the church

(see my topic post "Let's not forget what Pope Benidict is...")

[gerryhatrick]

The current pope is an academic and was speaking to a crowd of academics - not to illiterate goat herders.

The current pope is a criminal for obstructing justice in cases of pedophilia. Is that what you consider an "acedemic"?

I'll take an illiterate goat herder over that.

[Riverwind]

The current pope is an academic and was speaking to a crowd of academics - not to illiterate goat herders.

The Pope is also _the_ Pope and his words will be reported around the world no matter who he was talking to. If he wants to have academic discussions with academics he will have to do it in private. I have some sympathy for the guy - I see the line of argument that he was making and don't think the slur was intended. People in high public positions must mind what they say - that is a fact of life.

[Argus]

I read the speech. It is just as bad when taken in full context.

This Pope is no stranger to being an idiot. Recall what he said about Turkey entering the EU.

He was opposed to it. Is everyone opposed to it an idiot? Do you truly find it amazing a Catholic cardinal would not want the European Union - which is mainly Christian - to have a large Muslim component?

Look at what he did to protect pedophiles in the church

Nothing, so far as I know. Do you know differently? The fact he, as head of a particular organization, wanted the Church to investigate it's own in secret is hardly surprising. That does not suggest he was trying to "protect pedophiles". From what I've read of the man he could have nothing but contempt for such people, particularly in priestly vestments.

[geoffrey]

The current pope is a criminal for obstructing justice in cases of pedophilia. Is that what you consider an "acedemic"?

I'll take an illiterate goat herder over that.

Throw out lawyer-client privledge too while your at it?

--

Anyways, back in reality, it's as simple as this. Most of these Islamists would rather burn Churches and kill nuns then read the text, or accept the reality that what the Pope said is true, whether a historical citiation or current observation.

[Higgly]

The current pope is an academic and was speaking to a crowd of academics - not to illiterate goat herders.

Argus, you are a bigot.

[Leafless]

The current pope is an academic and was speaking to a crowd of academics - not to illiterate goat herders.

Argus, you are a bigot.

How can that be when August1991 says Argus is one of his favourite posters and August has been here like ---forever!

August1991 Sep 14 2006, 03:49 PM Post #6

I'll indulge in this. These are the posters that I usually read (in no particular order):

FTA Lawyer

Riverview

kimmy

geoffrey

Bakunin

BlackDog

TheloniousMonk

Hardner

Argus

Hicksey

Melanie

RB

jbg

Dobbin

KrustyKidd

Cybercoma

Canuck

Bubbler

Argus has an inimitable style. Kimmy should be a journalist (although it might corrupt her style). BD has the best snappy responses to stupidity. uOttawaMan has the best one-line summaries of long debates. rue is good but far too verbose. I miss Hugo. (Charles Anthony is good but no replacement for Hugo.) I wish gerryhatrick was less blindly partisan. (We need more Lefties here.)

--------------------

[geoffrey]

The current pope is an academic and was speaking to a crowd of academics - not to illiterate goat herders.

Argus, you are a bigot.

Maybe. I'd make a stronger case for those that attack Christianity and everything the Pope says with impunity but mutter hardly a whisper when high ranking Islamic Clerics call for the death and destruction of our entire civilization on a regular basis.

It's like this culture of ours is on a constant guilt trip. Deal with it, the Pope called it like it is. Don't like it, take some LSD to escape the reality of the situation.

[Higgly]

Maybe. I'd make a stronger case for those that attack Christianity and everything the Pope says with impunity but mutter hardly a whisper when high ranking Islamic Clerics call for the death and destruction of our entire civilization on a regular basis.

OK. Here is the difference. The Moslem world does not have an identifiable leader who speaks for hundreds of millions of people and has the power of the Prince of Rome.

I believe that it is the responsibility of the leaders of the world to find harmony and peace. I believe, like Robert Fisk, that war is a failure of the human spirit.

I have few heroes in the Moslem or the Arab world. Certainly not **cough**jackjass**cough**Osama , nor **cough***moron**cough**Ahmadinejad, nor **cough**clown**cough**Arafat...

I believe that we are currently very badly served by a collection of half-wits, scoundrels, and cowards. On all sides. I believe we are particularly badly served by people who shoot their mouthes off without having made any serious effort to understand what the hell they are talking about. It is our civic reponsibility to monitor our governments and speak out about what we see happening. When that ends, we will no longer have a democracy.

[Riverwind]

Maybe. I'd make a stronger case for those that attack Christianity and everything the Pope says with impunity but mutter hardly a whisper when high ranking Islamic Clerics call for the death and destruction of our entire civilization on a regular basis.

Can you produce references to statements by Islamic clerics like this? And if you can you demonstrate that they are actually 'high ranking' clerics and not simply 'Pat Robertson'-like yahoos?

[Argus]

The current pope is an academic and was speaking to a crowd of academics - not to illiterate goat herders.

Argus, you are a bigot.

Nonsense. I'm a snob. My disrespect towards obnoxious, moronic cretins is impossible to hide.

Surely YOU have noticed that.

[Argus]

The current pope is an academic and was speaking to a crowd of academics - not to illiterate goat herders.

Argus, you are a bigot.

Nonsense. I'm a snob. My disrespect towards obnoxious, moronic cretins is impossible to hide.

Surely YOU have noticed that in our previous discussions.

[Black Dog]

Argus, you are a bigot.

Nonsense. I'm a snob. My disrespect towards obnoxious, moronic cretins is impossible to hide.

Surely YOU have noticed that in our previous discussions.

Actually, you are a bigot. According to the American Heritage Dictionary, a bigot is "one who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ." I think that about describes you to a "t". The only question is why you would deny it.

[jbg]

Fortunately, I happened by this thread before posting a third "Pope Thread". I intend to link this response to the other thread, and have linked my response here to that thread.

http://tinyurl.com/j7uuh

or

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict...ensburg_en.html

Read the actual speech that has angered Muslims around the world.

As I HIGHLY doubt many Muslims have read the actual speech (illiteracy being quite high in the Muslim world), I would say "read the actual speech which had a small portion quoted out of context and then brayed out to the Muslim world so they could start tearing at their beards again."

I have stated my views elsewhere. Below is a snapback link and summary of my views.

If anyone took the trouble (and it was a fair amount of trouble, admittedly) to find an English or Canadian translation of the Pope's remarks, you would find that the Pope was telling the truth about Islam. Now, you will read that the Pople was merely quoting Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologus (the "Byzantine Emporor") in Constantinople, and thus was not expressing his own opinion. I do not agree. I think the Pope was "telling it like it is", something that upsets the jihadi elements (link) quite a bit. The relevant excerpts from the the Pope's address (link) is at the referenced URL link.

[Argus]

Argus, you are a bigot.

Nonsense. I'm a snob. My disrespect towards obnoxious, moronic cretins is impossible to hide.

Surely YOU have noticed that in our previous discussions.

Actually, you are a bigot. According to the American Heritage Dictionary, a bigot is "one who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ." I think that about describes you to a "t". The only question is why you would deny it.

I'm not intolerent to those who "differ". I'm intolerent of idiots. I'm intolerent of religious fanatics. I'm intolerent of simpletons - regardless of race, creed or colour. And when I see goat herders, barefoot peasants in ragged clothes with ragged beards and unkempt turbans and burkhas jumipng up and down and waving their fists as they denounce cartoons or the pope or whatever - yes, my lip does curl somewhat with contempt. I'm supposed to respect these violent minded holdovers from the dark ages? Do you? Tell me you respect their opinions and beliefs - including those on women and gays.

As for being partial to my political beliefs and intolant of those who differ - well that pretty much makes you a bigot too.

[jbg]

I'm intolerent of idiots. I'm intolerent of religious fanatics. I'm intolerent of simpletons - regardless of race, creed or colour. And when I see goat herders, barefoot peasants in ragged clothes with ragged beards and unkempt turbans and burkhas jumipng up and down and waving their fists as they denounce cartoons or the pope or whatever - yes, my lip does curl somewhat with contempt. I'm supposed to respect these violent minded holdovers from the dark ages? Do you? Tell me you respect their opinions and beliefs - including those on women and gays.

Weel said, particularly when those "goat herders, barefoot peasants in ragged clothes with ragged beards and unkempt turbans and burkhas jumipng up and down and waving their fists as they denounce cartoons or the pope or whatever" haven't read the "offending" passages, and are yelling for blood because someone tells them to.

[Charles Anthony]

I do not know if I am tolerant but I am afraid.

I am afraid of being attacked by an army of goat herders, barefoot peasants in ragged clothes with ragged beards and unkempt turbans and burkhas jumipng up and down and waving their fists and its onslaught. I might get struck by one of their "waving fists" if I get too close to their personal space.

By the way, does anybody have a link for the "unkempt burkhas" part? I have seen some doctored photographs of everything else but none which clearly demonstrates the condition of the burkhas. [i hope I did not misinterpret that quote....]

[PocketRocket]

Admittedly, I have not read the full text of the speech; I simply don't have time this morning.

But according to the news, the Pope called Islam a religion that "lives by the sword".

Apparently this is the statement that ignited all the foofoorah. (note: "apparently")

And to protest this statement, they are burning the Pope in effigy.

Anyone else see the humor in this???

[M.Dancer]

In his apology he explained.....

Look. I-- I'd had a lovely supper, and all I said to my wife was, 'That piece of halibut was good enough for Jehovah.'

[jbg]

Admittedly, I have not read the full text of the speech; I simply don't have time this morning.

But according to the news, the Pope called Islam a religion that "lives by the sword".

Apparently this is the statement that ignited all the foofoorah. (note: "apparently")

And to protest this statement, they are burning the Pope in effigy.

Anyone else see the humor in this???

Same as in the Muslims protesting AU's PM John Howard. They were yelling "peace now" as they pelted his car with rocks.

[Chuck U. Farlie]

"We tell the worshipper of the cross (the Pope) that you and the West will be defeated, as is the case in Iraq,

Afghanistan,

Chechnya," said a Web statement by the Mujahideen Shura Council, an umbrella group led by Iraq's branch of al Qaeda.

"We shall break the cross and spill the wine ... God will (help) Muslims to conquer Rome ... (May) God enable us to slit their throats, and make their money and descendants the bounty of the mujahideen," said the statement, posted on Sunday on an Internet site often used by al Qaeda and other militant groups.

Yep... the Pope says that Moslems "live by the sword", and how do Moslems react? With the sword. Kind of proves his point.