The NDP Supports Our Troops

[uOttawaMan]

Rage on.

[Argus]

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/afghan.html

Afghan energy potential. None of which can be exploited till the fighting ends.

Is this the real reason our troops are dying in Afghanistan????

You clearly know nothing whatever about energy production. If you did you'd have read the cite with more understanding. Note the area which says Northern Afghanistan has proved, probable and possible natural gas reserves of about 5 trillion cubic feet (Tcf). Just FYI for comparison purposes Canada's PROVEN natural gas reserves currently stand at over 56 trillion cubic feet. Also Afghanistan’s crude oil potential is more modest, with perhaps up to 100 million barrels of medium-gravity recoverable from Angot and other fields Canada's PROVEN oil reserves are approximately 178 BILLION barrels.

Starting to realize just how minor those oil and gas reserves are in Afghanistan?

[Argus]

Yes. That, in fact, has been the case. The tory leader, or previous, the Alliance or Reform leader, and the entire party, for that matter, have been held directly responsible for every opinion held by anyone even remotely connected to anyone in the party.

So you feel obliged to adopt the same tactics?

These are the tactics the NDP has pioneered.

Look, if holding the leadership or entire membership responsible for the actions or beliefs of a few is wrong, then don't do it.

I'm using the NDP's standards. What? They can't live up to the standards they demand of other parties? I guess that kind of makes them hypocrites, right?

Uh...why should the party leader comment on a single resolution? If a CPC riding association put forward a resolution calling for the internment of all Muslims in Canada, would you expect Harper to comment?

You're damned right he'd be required to comment on it. Every reporter would be shouting out a demand for his comment everywhere he went until he did and you damned well know it. Jack Layton would be on every channel demanding Harper expell the entire riding association from the party, and sadly shaking his head as he reminds us all that this is what the Conservative party stands for. Oh yes he would be, and you know it. He and his predecessors have done it before.

One can only imagine the national furor if a conservative riding association put forward a similar resolution and Harper refused to talk about it. But the media shrugs off these kinds of things by anyone other than conservatives.

Which is why the o.p has articles from both national newspapers on the NDP resolution. Because they are ignoring the issue.

Did I say they were ignoring it? But there is no great furor. There's some smirking and head shaking and eye rolling, but there isn't a bus load of reporters camped out everywhere Layton might show up demanding his opinion and asking what he plans to do about his riding association. And now that the wording has been changed the national press will allow it to be quietly forgotten.

[August1991]

Did I say they were ignoring it? But there is no great furor. There's some smirking and head shaking and eye rolling, but there isn't a bus load of reporters camped out everywhere Layton might show up demanding his opinion and asking what he plans to do about his riding association. And now that the wording has been changed the national press will allow it to be quietly forgotten.

I may have missed it, but I heard nothing on CBC radio news about this.

[jbg]

For starters there is no way economies in most third world countries will ever be developed similar to ours the U.S. or Europe.

Really? What evidence do you have to support that? Would you say that 25 years ago someone would have predicted that India would be a player in the global economy? Or Korea?

Would you say that someone 50 years ago would have predicted that Japan would become the world's leading auto manufacturer?

Where does, Malaysia or Singapore fit in to your already antiquated opinion?

What do India and Singapore have in common? They speak English. And Malaysia looks like it's going down the Muslim sh*thole.

[M.Dancer]

Iam really not certain how you can predict the future relating to economies in to-days volatile world especially Afghanistan's in which I predict will not advance or progress very far from it's present state.

Import vehicles are Not leading the way in Canada and had in 2005 only a 32% market share.

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/060214/d060214a.htm

I don't know what this India thing you have but per capita income of a 496.4 million working population was $3,400 U.S. and ranks 122nd world wide in 2005.

Har! you are not certain how I can predict the future and then you go ahead and make an uneducated prediction!!!

Lets look at the meat of your post...

Autos: Nice of you to pick Canada but the subject is international. The top selling automotive brand in the World is Toyota

India: 7.6% rise in GDP( US 3.5% GDP)..a purchasing power of $3.6 Trillion USD

[M.Dancer]

Import vehicles are Not leading the way in Canada and had in 2005 only a 32% market share.

At least try to be honest in your irrelevent data..you said import vehicles.....the data is a comaprison between north ameican and over seas......

[M.Dancer]

Import vehicles are Not leading the way in Canada and had in 2005 only a 32% market share.

At least try to be honest in your irrelevant data..you said import vehicles.....the data is a comparison between north american and over seas......

I consider autos made in Mexico to be foriegn (detroit too)

[Leafless]

Import vehicles are Not leading the way in Canada and had in 2005 only a 32% market share.

At least try to be honest in your irrelevant data..you said import vehicles.....the data is a comparison between north american and over seas......

I consider autos made in Mexico to be foriegn (detroit too)

Where is your data????

[M.Dancer]

What do India and Singapore have in common? They speak English. And Malaysia looks like it's going down the Muslim sh*thole.

5.3% GDP Growth. Malaysia actually has a very positive forecast and is being bouyed by strong oil prices and consumer demand for electronics.

[Black Dog]

These are the tactics the NDP has pioneered.

Whoops! I thought this was about the dured CPC-hatin' media. Can you cite any examples of when the NDP has deployed those tactics?

I'm using the NDP's standards. What? They can't live up to the standards they demand of other parties? I guess that kind of makes them hypocrites, right?

Nice dodge. Look, I don't give a shit if the NDP pioneered those tactics. If you think they're wrong, then employing them makes you a hypocrite as well. And, if they aren't wrong, then the NDp ain't hypocrites, all's fair in love and war and you're just whining. Take yer pick.

You're damned right he'd be required to comment on it. Every reporter would be shouting out a demand for his comment everywhere he went until he did and you damned well know it. Jack Layton would be on every channel demanding Harper expell the entire riding association from the party, and sadly shaking his head as he reminds us all that this is what the Conservative party stands for. Oh yes he would be, and you know it. He and his predecessors have done it before.

I call bullshit. I looked for coverage of the last CPC convention, which incluided resolutions against abortion and gay marriage, and turned up bupkiss. If you have some cites, by all means bring them forward. Remember: we're looking for comparable examples here, so reaction to MP comments don't count.

Did I say they were ignoring it? But there is no great furor. There's some smirking and head shaking and eye rolling, but there isn't a bus load of reporters camped out everywhere Layton might show up demanding his opinion and asking what he plans to do about his riding association. And now that the wording has been changed the national press will allow it to be quietly forgotten.

And why should there be a great furor? This is a non-issue. A handful of NDP members brought forward a resolution for debate at the policy convention, as is their right. It was unlikely to succeed from the get go and has since been modified. Now, like I said, if you can find a comparable example of where the media made a big deal out of a CPC policy initiative (and I'm talking about bus loads of reporters camped out everywhere Harper might show up, demanding his opinion), I'll consider it and offer my tut tuts at the horrible double standard. But if, as I suspect, you're simply going on the basis of an imaginary scenario, well, I'm afraid I can't take your whining all that seriously and neither should anyone else.

[kimmy]

So an NDP riding association submits a cockamamie resolution (one of 600 that will be debated) that would most certainly have been defeated at the convention, and they are damned as a whole. I can't wait until the next CPC policy convention to see what some of the fringe of that party comes up with.

Well, going by the logic of CPC opponents, this isn't a "cockamamie resolution", it's a look into the heart of the REAL NDP, the wild-eyed grassroots extremists that Jack Layton can't keep quiet. Yes, this isn't an isolated resolution from some mavericks, it's a glimpse at what these people *really* believe and a reminder that even though the party wants to deceive people into thinking they've become moderate, they're still the same bunch of wackos.

(I assume this all sounds pretty familiar. Should we go back to the CPC policy convention threads and check?)

At any rate, how sure are you that this is just a renegade kook? The riding association president says that the resolution echoed with other Vancouver Island riding associations, and probably with delegates from across Canada.

The National Post mentions that there are "a number" or similar resolutions, though presumably only one that equates Canadian soldiers with terrorists. One apparently describes the current Afghan regime as "barbarous warlords little better than the Taliban." The article also mentions a resolution calling for an end to trade with Israel.

And, Stephen Taylor's blog mentions a number of resolutions calling for the nationalization of resources, media, communications, manufacturing, banking...

Yes. That, in fact, has been the case. The tory leader, or previous, the Alliance or Reform leader, and the entire party, for that matter, have been held directly responsible for every opinion held by anyone even remotely connected to anyone in the party.

So you feel obliged to adopt the same tactics? Look, if holding the leadership or entire membership responsible for the actions or beliefs of a few is wrong, then don't do it. If not, well, don't bitch about it when it happensto your guys. Simple.

You guys (not you in particular, BD, but many on the left) have always made a big deal about the "extreme" elements within the Conservative party. For as long as I've been following politics, the left has informed me that it's an Important, Scary Thing that there are extreme elements within a party. But now you want me to just ignore this? I'm so confused.

Mainstream Canadians of all political stripes take notice when some extremist within the CPC says something outrageous. Why would this case be any different? You guys can dish it out but you can't take it? Nah, screw that. We get to watch your crew do damage control on this. If anything, it should be a lesson to your guys in refining their message as they move towards an election within the next year.

Layton has not only refused to state that he holds a contrary opinion, the MP of that riding has refused to state they hold a contrary opniion. Given the dispicable nature of the opinion I am going to assume, therefore, that both Layton and that MP, Jean Crowder, agree wholeheartedly with that opinion, and are presently consulting the polls and advisors to see what their response should be.

Uh...why should the party leader comment on a single resolution? If a CPC riding association put forward a resolution calling for the internment of all Muslims in Canada, would you expect Harper to comment? What you'd get would be a spokesman saying something along the lines of "the democratic process...blah bhal blah..open to many viewpoints...blah blah blah...up to the party membership to decide..blah bhlah blah." And rightly so.

If a CPC riding association came out with a resolution that was as outrageous as your example, I'd expect Harper to act immediately to condemn it and strike it from the agenda. Some things *aren't* open for discussion. If he didn't, he'd be roundly condemned for his inaction. And rightly so.

The G'n'M article indicates that the outrageous portion of the proposed resolution has been withdrawn, so it appears that the NDP have recognized as much.

-k

[M.Dancer]

I look forward to the wild eyed ravings of NDPers as much as I look forward to the xenophobic paranoid mutterings of CPCers.......both are equally entertaining and well worth the price of admission.

[Black Dog]

Well, going by the logic of CPC opponents, this isn't a "cockamamie resolution", it's a look into the heart of the REAL NDP, the wild-eyed grassroots extremists that Jack Layton can't keep quiet. Yes, this isn't an isolated resolution from some mavericks, it's a glimpse at what these people *really* believe and a reminder that even though the party wants to deceive people into thinking they've become moderate, they're still the same bunch of wackos.

(I assume this all sounds pretty familiar. Should we go back to the CPC policy convention threads and check?)

Sure. Knock yerself out.

At any rate, how sure are you that this is just a renegade kook? The riding association president says that the resolution echoed with other Vancouver Island riding associations, and probably with delegates from across Canada.

What's he going to say? "This is a totally out there reolution and I'm surprised I'm getting away with it?"

The National Post mentions that there are "a number" or similar resolutions, though presumably only one that equates Canadian soldiers with terrorists. One apparently describes the current Afghan regime as "barbarous warlords little better than the Taliban." The article also mentions a resolution calling for an end to trade with Israel.

And, Stephen Taylor's blog mentions a number of resolutions calling for the nationalization of resources, media, communications, manufacturing, banking...

You mean the party of choice for left-wing, socialist, anti-war types has a whack of left-wing, socialist, anti-war resolutions? I'm stunned!

You guys (not you in particular, BD, but many on the left) have always made a big deal about the "extreme" elements within the Conservative party. For as long as I've been following politics, the left has informed me that it's an Important, Scary Thing that there are extreme elements within a party. But now you want me to just ignore this? I'm so confused

There are extreme elements in every party. And nowhere did I said this should be ignored, just put in perspective. Some folks are demanding mor emedia scrutiny of this matter and claiming the media is basically ignoring it, which is evidence of a media double standard because the media doesn't give the CPC eh same benefit of the doubt. Well, at least in the imaginary scenario being offered up. Like I said, I haven't seen and don't recall the media kicking a bigger fuss up over any comprable CPC resolutions.

Mainstream Canadians of all political stripes take notice when some extremist within the CPC says something outrageous. Why would this case be any different? You guys can dish it out but you can't take it? Nah, screw that. We get to watch your crew do damage control on this. If anything, it should be a lesson to your guys in refining their message as they move towards an election within the next year.

My guys? You have me mistaken for a Dipper. I ain't. As for "dishing it out etc.", it's like I said to Argus: if that's the attitude, then alls fair in love and war. But there's no way you guys can claim the moral high ground if you're willing to engage in political manuvering that you decry otherwise. IOW, "you can dish it out but can't take it" cuts both ways.

If a CPC riding association came out with a resolution that was as outrageous as your example, I'd expect Harper to act immediately to condemn it and strike it from the agenda. Some things *aren't* open for discussion. If he didn't, he'd be roundly condemned for his inaction. And rightly so.

Right. But I'm dying to see if there's a real-life comparable example of the media giving the CPC hell over a policy resolution proposed by a section of its membership.

[M.Dancer]

Right. But I'm dying to see if there's a real-life comparable example of the media giving the CPC hell over a policy resolution proposed by a section of its membership.

Given HArper's penchant for absolute control over the message, I would be suprised if resolutions didn't have to be vetted first. As far as the media is concerned, lets not forget how much fun there was when various reform/CCRAP whackoes said things like:

Bring back Caning of minors

okay to put blacks in the back office (if it meant better sales)

ASIAN INVASION

Anything out of the limber lips of Stockwell Day.............

[Black Dog]

Given HArper's penchant for absolute control over the message, I would be suprised if resolutions didn't have to be vetted first.

Good point. The CPC has been roasted in the past and has learned. the NDP still needs to learn, but then the challenges of message control are far greater in that party due to to the much broader range of viewpoints.

[M.Dancer]

...on terrorism they go all the way from appeasement to justification and endorsement

[Black Dog]

...on terrorism they go all the way from appeasement to justification and endorsement

Amazing. From reasonable to jackass in two posts. Well done.

[M.Dancer]

...on terrorism they go all the way from appeasement to justification and endorsement

Amazing. From reasonable to jackass in two posts. Well done.

If you can show they have a third position, be my guest.

[M.Dancer]

...on terrorism they go all the way from appeasement to justification and endorsement

Amazing. From reasonable to jackass in two posts. Well done.

To know me is to ....awww nevermind

[Hicksey]

...on terrorism they go all the way from appeasement to justification and endorsement

Amazing. From reasonable to jackass in two posts. Well done.

The NDP referring to our soldiers as terrorists is reasonable? Sometimes one has to fight fire with fire. And in this fight, you're either with us or against us. If you call our soldiers terrorists, then you are against us. They might as well be out there with the Taliban shooting at our troops for all the good they have done.

The NDP says they support our troops. I say that's BS because their actions (trying to undermine their mission at every turn) have spoken louder than those words. With friends like that who needs enemies?

It's about time the NDP got the ridiculous notion that soldiers are social workers with guns out of their heads.

[Black Dog]

The NDP referring to our soldiers as terrorists is reasonable?

Read for comprehension: it's easy and fun.

Sometimes one has to fight fire with fire. And in this fight, you're either with us or against us. If you call our soldiers terrorists, then you are against us.

And in this fight we shall leave no cliche unuttered!

They might as well be out there with the Taliban shooting at our troops for all the good they have done.

Yup. I can just see the Taliban sitting in their caves, reading the Globe and exulting over the actions of a small fragment of the fourth party of Canadian politics. Jesus Christ.

The NDP says they support our troops. I say that's BS because their actions (trying to undermine their mission at every turn) have spoken louder than those words. With friends like that who needs enemies?

You mean their words have spoken louder than their actions. Unless you actually think the NDP has people in Afghanistan ambushing troops with poorly-worded policy documents.

[Argus]

I look forward to the wild eyed ravings of NDPers as much as I look forward to the xenophobic paranoid mutterings of CPCers.......both are equally entertaining and well worth the price of admission.

Said admission price going neatly into the pockets (under the table, of course) of our nearest crooked Liberal party candidate.

[uOttawaMan]

I look forward to the wild eyed ravings of NDPers as much as I look forward to the xenophobic paranoid mutterings of CPCers.......both are equally entertaining and well worth the price of admission.

Said admission price going neatly into the pockets (under the table, of course) of our nearest crooked Liberal party candidate.

Agreed.

The only thing to do now, is call the whole thing a crapshoot, pound back some cold ones, and go streaking down at the Quad.

[kimmy]

My guys? You have me mistaken for a Dipper. I ain't. As for "dishing it out etc.", it's like I said to Argus: if that's the attitude, then alls fair in love and war. But there's no way you guys can claim the moral high ground if you're willing to engage in political manuvering that you decry otherwise. IOW, "you can dish it out but can't take it" cuts both ways.

The CPC and it's predecessors and supporters have been "taking it" for far longer than I've been following politics, I think they've more than proven they can take it, and have more than earned the right to comment when others make the same mistakes.

As for whether "all's fair in love and war", you've seen enough elections in this country to know that it's not even a question.

-k