TerrorStorm: Free movie

[kimmy]

I also think its obvious that the wtc collapse was done by CD by criminal elements of the US gov.

I figure that if you can't see this you must either (1) think you are in on it (2) be unbelievably stupid. It certainly doesn't require high school level physics to see the controlled demolition. You just ahve to watch wtc 7 collapse.

Well, I'm pretty sure I wasn't in on it, so I guess I must be unbelievably stupid, because I certainly don't see anything that I could consider proof that it was a controlled demolition. Are you just referring to WTC7, or were WTC1 and WTC2 also obviously controlled demolitions?

Are the professors at Northwestern University, and the universities of Edinburgh and Sydney who put their names and professional reputations on studies supporting professional collapse also unbelievably stupid? The MIT grad students who did research on the issue? Or were they all in on it?

I have a degree in engineering and have also done some rough calculations on it.

Which branch of engineering? If you're going to go around trumpeting your credentials, your specific branch of engineering is an important detail, don't you think?

And please outline some of these rough calculations you've done as well. I'm interested to hear.

I believe the official version is a lie and that criminal element of US government did this. I think the case can be proven about five different ways using independent evidence.

And please outline these five ways, as well. I'm curious to know if you've happened upon something that hasn't already been debunked.

-k

[Riverwind]

I figure that if you can't see this you must either (1) think you are in on it (2) be unbelievably stupid. It certainly doesn't require high school level physics to see the controlled demolition. You just have to watch wtc 7 collapse.

You cannot explain the collapse of complex structures with high school physics. Anyone who thinks they can is hopelessly naive.

I believe that a skyscraper will collapse into its footprint when subjected to internal structural damage and out of control fires. My proof at the moment is based on experimental observations since 3 out of 3 buildings that have collapsed as a result of structural damage and fires have collapsed into their footprints. I realize that it is rather difficult to repeat experiments to verify this theory so the only way to invalidate this theory is to find an example of a building that did not collapse into its footprint after being subject to structural damage and fires.

If you feel by theory is invalid then please provide a counter example.

[geoffrey]

I figure that if you can't see this you must either (1) think you are in on it (2) be unbelievably stupid. It certainly doesn't require high school level physics to see the controlled demolition. You just have to watch wtc 7 collapse.

Sure, you can clearly see the collapse of one support in this picture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wtc7-after.jpg

Then the whole thing starts collapsing around it. Similar one critical support collapse as the Sampoong department store collapse in South Korea. The rest were then overloaded and the building fell. Small fires could easily weaken one support to collapse, then the rest just collapse with the increased load.

A demolition? Why, what's your proof? I have high school and university physics and I'm not seeing anything that supports a demolition.

[PolyNewbie]

See 911 Mysteries: Part 1: Demolition.

Also James Fetzer says that the collapse violates the second law of thermodynamics - exactly what I said after I saw the collapses on TV. The collapse was too orderly and expedient for it to be accidental.

I'm an EE.

Don't be the last to figure this out.

[PolyNewbie]

You cannot explain the collapse of complex structures with high school physics. Anyone who thinks they can is hopelessly naive.

Lots of Phd's say that you can see Hoffman. I see that you can and I am just an EE. Perhaps it is you that is niave.

You do not have to understand much about science to see that there is something very unnatural about these collapses.

[PolyNewbie]

"A lot of these pieces of information, taken together, prove that the official story, the official conspiracy theory of 9/11 is a bunch of hogwash. It’s impossible. … There’s a second group of facts having to do with the cover up. … Taken together these things prove that high levels of our government don’t want us to know what happened and who’s responsible. … Who gained from 9/11? Who covered up crucial information about 9/11? And who put out the patently false stories about 9/11 in the first place? When you take those three things together, I think the case is pretty clear that it’s highly placed individuals in the administration with all roads passing through Dick Cheney. I think the very kindest thing that we can say about George W. Bush and all the people in the U.S. Government that have been involved in this massive cover-up, the very kindest thing we can say is that they were aware of impending attacks and let them happen. Now some people will say that’s much too kind, however even that is high treason and conspiracy to commit murder."

-Col. Robert Bowman, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Director of Advanced Space Programs Development "Star Wars Program" under Presidents Ford and Carter. U.S. Air Force fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions. (PhD in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering, Cal Tech).

[Riverwind]

You cannot explain the collapse of complex structures with high school physics. Anyone who thinks they can is hopelessly naive.

You do not have to understand much about science to see that there is something very unnatural about these collapses.

Scientists from Newton to Bohr to Heisenberg were constantly confronted with experimental evidence that did not explain the current theories. These scientists recognized that scientific theory is a work in progress and that it is often necessary to change theories to explain new phenomena. These scientists would have looked at the experimental evidence and concluded that they needed to fix the theories instead of creating elaborate and improbable explanations based on the current theories.

Explaining the collapse of the towers on 9/11 with a controlled demolition theory is equivalent to explaining the gaps in evolution theory with divine intervention. Both are examples of lazy science and tunnel vision.

Incendently, claims of credentials on these forums usually mean nothing if they are not backed up with posts that demonstrate a deep understanding of the subject involved.

[Michael Hardner]

It is indeed strange that otherwise lucid people fall into such things as conspiracy theories, cults and the like. But whatever makes him believe in these ideas - it's not supported by facts.

The idea that a huge project like this could be planned, approved and executed is preposterous.

Anybody who stood to gain, stood more to gain from the status quo - rich, well-connected, people with lots of political contacts - than from giving it an earth shaking blow and risking the loss of power.

[Charles Anthony]

It is indeed strange that otherwise lucid people fall into such things as conspiracy theories, cults and the like.

Accept it.

The vast majority of people living today on Earth devoutly either believe in God or some form of the supernatural.

What I find strange is that a flock of sheep will cower away and run from a noisy barking dog when all of them could easily turn and over-power him if they so choose -- but they do not.

[kimmy]

I'm an EE.

So in other words, you don't really have any particular credentials on this subject. I mean, my dad's an electrical engineer, and he can't even put up a shelf. My special guy is also an electrical engineer, and while he's a lot handier than my dad is, I just spoke to him and he affirms that he has no particular knowledge of building skyscrapers.

On the bright side, at least you're not a computer engineer... those guys can barely tie their shoes, in my observation. Still, when you use your Electrical Engineering degree to try to "big-man" me into accepting your expertise on a subject that you don't actually have any expertise in, it strikes me as a little dishonest.

Also James Fetzer says that the collapse violates the second law of thermodynamics - exactly what I said after I saw the collapses on TV. The collapse was too orderly and expedient for it to be accidental.

This is interesting... surely neither you nor Dr Fetzer (who being a doctor of philosophy is probably about as much an expert as most electrical engineers are on the subject of skyscraper construction...) are suggesting that the avalanche of rubble and dust had less or equal entropy to the standing skyscraper?

If you can, please direct me to Dr Fetzer's explanation of how the collapse violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Because his explanation can't possibly be as lame as you make it sound.

"Orderly and expedient" is a purely qualitative description and has no scientific value. A doctor of philosophy might (if he was an idiot...) look at the collapse and say "gee, that was awfully orderly." A doctor of physics would look at the collapse and see a vast increase of entropy in progress.

A massive amount of potential energy was transformed into entropy (heat, sonic, seismic). Dr Fetzer says the collapse was orderly... I disagree. I think the swirling plumes and rolling clouds of dust, the flying debris, and the massive sonic and seismic vibrations are all evidence of chaos aplenty.

Thermodynamics takes a beating in a lot of philosophical debates-- especially creationism and evolution-- and more often than not it's being used by people who don't actually know what it means to argue a point to other people who don't know what it means either.

There are a number of different ways to state the 2nd law of thermodynamics, but I don't think that either you or Dr Fetzer can find a definition which states that a process that looks "orderly" is in violation of the law.

(and further... whatever caused the collapse, the characteristics of the collapse don't change. If it violated the 2nd law of thermodynamics, it violated the 2nd law of thermodynamics whether it was caused by fires or by controlled demolition. Whatever secret ninja skills the Black Ops demolitions crews might have, you're not suggesting they can suspend the laws of physics, are you?)

Don't be the last to figure this out.

I think for myself, and I apply logic and critical thinking to every decision I make, and I judge my success or failure by how well I've applied that process, not by what conclusion I arrive at.

I've just seen nothing compelling from these conspiracy theories to make me believe that it's the most likely explanation.

-k

[Led Boots]

It is indeed strange that otherwise lucid people fall into such things as conspiracy theories, cults and the like. But whatever makes him believe in these ideas - it's not supported by facts.

It's become a new age religion. All you need is faith, facts be damned.

[PolyNewbie]

One of the greatest mind control experiments ever performed must have been when the establishment convinced the general public that conspiracies do not exist. It in itself is proof that mind control is really being used on an unsuspecting public.

The idea that the US gov did 911 is the only idea that fits the facts. The rediculous idea that Bin Laden did this from a cave in Afganistan is both rediculous in itself and does not fit facts in any way.

For people that don't think conspiracies exist, what did all those people in prisons actually do to get there ? The mafia itself was just a conspiracy theory at one point, same as the existence of the CFR.

See 911 Mysteries: Part 1: Demolition. Its free on Google video and shows a lot of evidence not shown in other 911 movies. This is the best video on NY on 911 by far.

I do not believe that anyone who is agruing the official version actually believes it. They think they are in the inner circle, low level "Free" Masons, professionals, etc have the arrogant assumption that the system cannot work without them and that they will benefit from the outcome of 911 - through more business or an elevated position in the New World Order. Standard "Divide & Conquer" strategy - to be used against people that are not nearly as intelligent on these matters as they think they are.

[Led Boots]

One of the greatest mind control experiments ever performed must have been when the establishment convinced the general public that conspiracies do not exist. It in itself is proof that mind control is really being used on an unsuspecting public.

The idea that the US gov did 911 is the only idea that fits the facts. The rediculous idea that Bin Laden did this from a cave in Afganistan is both rediculous in itself and does not fit facts in any way.

For people that don't think conspiracies exist, what did all those people in prisons actually do to get there ? The mafia itself was just a conspiracy theory at one point, same as the existence of the CFR.

See 911 Mysteries: Part 1: Demolition. Its free on Google video and shows a lot of evidence not shown in other 911 movies. This is the best video on NY on 911 by far.

I do not believe that anyone who is agruing the official version actually believes it. They think they are in the inner circle, low level "Free" Masons, professionals, etc have the arrogant assumption that the system cannot work without them and that they will benefit from the outcome of 911 - through more business or an elevated position in the New World Order. Standard "Divide & Conquer" strategy - to be used against people that are not nearly as intelligent on these matters as they think they are.

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/tabs/m/misc...e_theme_tab.htm

[Michael Hardner]

One of the greatest mind control experiments ever performed must have been when the establishment convinced the general public that conspiracies do not exist. It in itself is proof that mind control is really being used on an unsuspecting public.

The fact that people don't believe in mass mind control is proof that it exists ?

The idea that the US gov did 911 is the only idea that fits the facts. The rediculous idea that Bin Laden did this from a cave in Afganistan is both rediculous in itself and does not fit facts in any way.

The confession, and the video of Bin Laden with the hijackers doesn't sway you ?

For people that don't think conspiracies exist, what did all those people in prisons actually do to get there ? The mafia itself was just a conspiracy theory at one point, same as the existence of the CFR.

You can assign a motive to the mafia, and everything they do follows logically from that. It all fits.

9/11 doesn't work that way. The 'powers that be' would never attack themselves in order to get more power. How much sense does that make ?

See 911 Mysteries: Part 1: Demolition. Its free on Google video and shows a lot of evidence not shown in other 911 movies. This is the best video on NY on 911 by far.

As I have said, go to 911myths.com and you can see how 'Loose Change' and so called 'truth' videos actually contain more disinformation than any official story could.

I do not believe that anyone who is agruing the official version actually believes it. They think they are in the inner circle, low level "Free" Masons, professionals, etc have the arrogant assumption that the system cannot work without them and that they will benefit from the outcome of 911 - through more business or an elevated position in the New World Order. Standard "Divide & Conquer" strategy - to be used against people that are not nearly as intelligent on these matters as they think they are.

I believe it. I'm not a freemason, the system works well without me, and I didn't benefit from 911.

I don't know how intelligent I am, but I knows what I knows...

[PolyNewbie]

Michael Hardner: The fact that people don't believe in mass mind control is proof that it exists ?

-No, thats not what I said. see http://www.starfall.com/

Michael Hardner: The confession, and the video of Bin Laden with the hijackers doesn't sway you ?

-That video was of a fake Osama Bin Laden. His eyes were too close togather, his nose was too long, he was 50 pounds heavier and looked ten years younger. Plus Osama never wears jewelry. Its a joke that people think that was Osama. The real Osama was mainstream on a few weeks after 911 explaining that he promised the Taliban that he would not do anything against the USA while in Afganistan. Also the Taliban said they would turn him over to USA to stop war. The US war in Afganistan is to protect their heroine trade from the Taliban who was burning the crops. Heroine production went down by 90 % just before the invasion. Shortly after it was restored. The US needs heroine money to conduct military coups and such without it being on the budget.

Michael Hardner: You can assign a motive to the mafia, and everything they do follows logically from that. It all fits.9/11 doesn't work that way. The 'powers that be' would never attack themselves in order to get more power. How much sense does that make ?

-Nero burned Rome to blame it on the Christians. Hitler burned the Reichtag to set the Germans against Poland. Its nothing new.

Michael Hardner: As I have said, go to 911myths.com and you can see how 'Loose Change' and so called 'truth' videos actually contain more disinformation than any official story could.

- Yes those kinds of sites are full of misinterpretations. The popular Mechanics book is a joke too. I heard an interview with the writers of that book. They said the bodies from the jet in Pennyslavania was buried underground from the impact and that they recovered all the bodies. Thats just one example.

- Loose Change was made soon after the event. The best video on 911 is 911 Mysteries: Part1 Demolition. The official version contains misinformation - it doesn't discuss the evidence coverup & destruction, how the air defences were made disfunctional, who benefitted or the money trails. Did you know that the evidence from the Murrah building in Oklahoma is still under armed guard ?

[JerrySeinfeld]

9-11 was actually planned by the US government . Bill Clinton started the plot in an attempt to win the 2004 election for the democrats.

[kimmy]

The idea that the US gov did 911 is the only idea that fits the facts. The rediculous idea that Bin Laden did this from a cave in Afganistan is both rediculous in itself and does not fit facts in any way.

We've gone from "the 2nd law of thermodynamics" to Bin Laden's living arrangements? Does this mean you're not going to address my questions about your (and Fetzer's) thermodynamics argument? I was really looking forward to reading that.

As for Bin Laden's cave... why is it ridiculous? what doesn't fit the facts? Is anybody claiming that Bin Laden never left the cave during the planning, or that his allies never met him at his cave?

In a country where the government had declared Bin Laden a "Hero of Islam", I don't believe there was any barriers to his movement in Afghanistan prior to 9/11, and his allies were likewise free to run their camps and travel about the country. What barrier do you see that would have prevented Bin Laden from organizing the attacks?

I do not believe that anyone who is agruing the official version actually believes it. They think they are in the inner circle, low level "Free" Masons, professionals, etc have the arrogant assumption that the system cannot work without them and that they will benefit from the outcome of 911 - through more business or an elevated position in the New World Order. Standard "Divide & Conquer" strategy - to be used against people that are not nearly as intelligent on these matters as they think they are.

Ha ha. Well, you've outed me. As a member of the shadowy Zurich Waitresses Coven, I'm not just spreading 9/11 misinformation, I helped plan the whole thing. Why? It's all about the greenbacks. With all the military spending since 9/11, and especially the rise in world oil prices, the right people have more money than ever before. Instead of a bunch of college deadbeats at my tables, now my customers are filthy rich oilmen and weapons makers. $4 french fries. $10 glasses of beer. And don't even ask how much the nachos cost. HAHA! Hahahah! It all means one thing: huge tips. Immense tips, in fact. For me and for other waitresses all over the world. That's why we did it. But now you know too much, and you have to die.

-k

[Michael Hardner]

Michael Hardner: The fact that people don't believe in mass mind control is proof that it exists ?

-No, thats not what I said. see http://www.starfall.com/

That's pretty close to what you said.

Michael Hardner: The confession, and the video of Bin Laden with the hijackers doesn't sway you ?

-That video was of a fake Osama Bin Laden. His eyes were too close togather, his nose was too long, he was 50 pounds heavier and looked ten years younger. Plus Osama never wears jewelry. Its a joke that people think that was Osama. The real Osama was mainstream on a few weeks after 911 explaining that he promised the Taliban that he would not do anything against the USA while in Afganistan. Also the Taliban said they would turn him over to USA to stop war. The US war in Afganistan is to protect their heroine trade from the Taliban who was burning the crops. Heroine production went down by 90 % just before the invasion. Shortly after it was restored. The US needs heroine money to conduct military coups and such without it being on the budget.

The video looked like the same person - no joke.

Was the 'real' Bin Laden turned over ?

Afghanistan was invaded for heroin money ?

That's a new one.

Michael Hardner: You can assign a motive to the mafia, and everything they do follows logically from that. It all fits.9/11 doesn't work that way. The 'powers that be' would never attack themselves in order to get more power. How much sense does that make ?

-Nero burned Rome to blame it on the Christians. Hitler burned the Reichtag to set the Germans against Poland. Its nothing new.

Those incidents are still debated. Regardless, the situation in each of these cases wasn't the same.

- Yes those kinds of sites are full of misinterpretations. The popular Mechanics book is a joke too. I heard an interview with the writers of that book. They said the bodies from the jet in Pennyslavania was buried underground from the impact and that they recovered all the bodies. Thats just one example.

- Loose Change was made soon after the event. The best video on 911 is 911 Mysteries: Part1 Demolition. The official version contains misinformation - it doesn't discuss the evidence coverup & destruction, how the air defences were made disfunctional, who benefitted or the money trails. Did you know that the evidence from the Murrah building in Oklahoma is still under armed guard ?

Did you even go to 911myths.com ? There is good information there if you have an open mind...

[Canadian Blue]

-That video was of a fake Osama Bin Laden. His eyes were too close togather, his nose was too long, he was 50 pounds heavier and looked ten years younger. Plus Osama never wears jewelry. Its a joke that people think that was Osama. The real Osama was mainstream on a few weeks after 911 explaining that he promised the Taliban that he would not do anything against the USA while in Afganistan. Also the Taliban said they would turn him over to USA to stop war. The US war in Afganistan is to protect their heroine trade from the Taliban who was burning the crops. Heroine production went down by 90 % just before the invasion. Shortly after it was restored. The US needs heroine money to conduct military coups and such without it being on the budget.

Show us undeniable proof, sorry but when some dingbat makes accusations like that while I have friends that are going to be going over there I want to see some idea of what you believe. The sad thing is that so many Canadian's died so that you could spout off this nonsense, its close to spitting on the graves of the soldiers that died in my opinion. As well the majority of the members of the military that I have talked to that went over don't seem to substantiate anything that your saying. Unless they were brainwashed.

-That video was of a fake Osama Bin Laden. His eyes were too close togather, his nose was too long, he was 50 pounds heavier and looked ten years younger. Plus Osama never wears jewelry. Its a joke that people think that was Osama. The real Osama was mainstream on a few weeks after 911 explaining that he promised the Taliban that he would not do anything against the USA while in Afganistan. Also the Taliban said they would turn him over to USA to stop war. The US war in Afganistan is to protect their heroine trade from the Taliban who was burning the crops. Heroine production went down by 90 % just before the invasion. Shortly after it was restored. The US needs heroine money to conduct military coups and such without it being on the budget.

Then how is that the majority of the media doesn't believe it who are primarily unbiased. Down in the US, and around the world I would doubt the majority of people are brainwashed. If they were then we wouldn't see all these massive protests.

-Nero burned Rome to blame it on the Christians. Hitler burned the Reichtag to set the Germans against Poland. Its nothing new.

The difference being is that the war right now is very unpopular. Bush had absolutely nothing to gain in the end as he is now one of the most unpopular presidents in history.

The idea that the US gov did 911 is the only idea that fits the facts. The rediculous idea that Bin Laden did this from a cave in Afganistan is both rediculous in itself and does not fit facts in any way.

Other then the terrorists being identified, the confession by Osama, and nearly all intelligence reports and investigation done into 9/11. As well what would be the point of crashing a jet into a Pennsylvania field, what is the hell kind motive would be behind that.

Personally I'm more then sick of all this BS that comes from conspiracy theorists, you'd have a better time proving that Aliens crashed at Roswell in 1947 then trying to tell us that the West attacked itself so they could go and fight for mountains and sand in Astan. How many people have BS theories about the "Jewish conspiracy" or that Elvis is still alive, the moon landing was a fake, whatever. Somehow I think these people simply are so paranoid to the point where they can't trust any authorities and it drives them crazy. A perfect example is militia groups down in the US, the cult in South America that drank posinous koolaid, etc.

Despite the fact that you are intelligent, you seem to suffer from paranoia, perhaps you should get counselling. It's scary that your that paranoid.

As well, if those troops that died in Afganistan were in on it, then why would they die for a cause thats completely untrue? Please answer this question.

100% Pure BS

[PolyNewbie]

Canadian Blue: The sad thing is that so many Canadian's died so that you could spout off this nonsense, its close to spitting on the graves of the soldiers that died in my opinion.

I dissagree. I think the sadest thing is when people are over there fighting a war and getting killed because they are ordered to and people like you are allowing it to happen by supporting it without being aware of some important facts about the Afganistan mission.

The most import fact is the 911 was an inside job done by the US gov and its the stated reason for us being there. In your line of thinking a soldier only becomes important after he is dead. We are not there to save little school children from the Taliban. Thats silly, naive, emotional and romantic. These do not make war. Money makes war and war is about money.

Most of the population can be fooled into thinking that its some evil dictator without looking beyond what they see on TV. In reality we replace peoples governments with evil dictators so that they can put their people to work for our corporations.

Drugs is big business in Afgnaistan and its not the farmers who make all the money. The Taliban squashed the drug production in Afganistan and US were in there a few months later. Drug trade now restored and that is supported by UN statistics. You should look at these numbers, there is a big dip and then the war starts and it returns to normal. There are other geophysical and strategic reasons for being there. None of them will ever benefit the people who are fighting the war. Plus there is a pipeline.

Just because the Bush administration stole the election, Enron got away with almost everything, A police state is being put into place while there are still open borders with a fear of terrorism, 911 eveidence was removed before investigation of physical evidence could take place illegally, A few companies such as Haliburton getting no bid contracts without work actually being done, press blockage on Haiti, secret North American Union negotiations that most people still think is a conspiracy, and all this going on while the news is talking about Britney Spears. Everything is OK as long as you live in the box- if "they" say we should have war than we should have war( it wasn't an election issue but could have been if facts were what people were interested in).

If you step outside the box and take a look at some "conspiracy sites" you will find not only a high degree of consistency with what they are saying are the relevant facts, but a number of qualified experts and highest level political insiders with required expertise saying 911 was an inside job. When you step outside the box you see a very different reality of global affairs that is quite a bit clearer and logical than what is on corporate controlled press. It is also more consistent with history.

[PolyNewbie]

Minchael Hardner: That's a new one. (re Afganistan drug trade)

No. Its an old one. Thats pretty much in the UN statistics as well.

[PolyNewbie]

Michael Hardner: The video looked like the same person - no joke.

Was the 'real' Bin Laden turned over ?

Afghanistan was invaded for heroin money ?

Take a look at whatreallyhappened.com. They show pictures of that guy beside ones of Bin Laden. There is no way they are the same guy. Bin Laden died in a hospital in Pakistan in 2002 and so did the CIA guy that brought back that info and released it.

If you look at the stats on heroine and the fact that these represent huge amounts of money and that money flow was restored as a result of the invasion you cannot ignore the possibility. One can never know for sure. So thats when you look at character - so would the USA invade a country for nothing more than pure profit ? Who really runs the USA ? Is it really George Bush or is it financial and corporate interests ? Who really decided that we should go to war ?

[PolyNewbie]

kimmy:We've gone from "the 2nd law of thermodynamics" to Bin Laden's living arrangements? Does this mean you're not going to address my questions about your (and Fetzer's) thermodynamics argument? I was really looking forward to reading that.

As for Bin Laden's cave... why is it ridiculous? what doesn't fit the facts? Is anybody claiming that Bin Laden never left the cave during the planning, or that his allies never met him at his cave?

In a country where the government had declared Bin Laden a "Hero of Islam", I don't believe there was any barriers to his movement in Afghanistan prior to 9/11, and his allies were likewise free to run their camps and travel about the country. What barrier do you see that would have prevented Bin Laden from organizing the attacks?

I am just an EE and I recognised that the collapse was to orderly and expedient to be natural. It occured to me that it could be a violation of the second law of thermo dynamics. Jeff King is the one that explains it that way. There are many different ways of showing 911 wasn't scientifically possible according to the official version. st911.org and 911Research.org are good places to get arguements for controlled demolition based on physical evidence, as well as mountains of circumstantial evidence. The case for controlled demolition of all three buildings is hard to dispute.

I do not believe that Bin Laden could get Norad to stand down and have those planes fly the way they did on 911 from a computer in Afganistan. The planes had to have flown with autopilots/computer assistance or guidance that would have to be prearranged. The maneuver at the Pentagon could not have happened without guidance or assistance. It hit the safest/strongest and least populated area of the Pentagon and the physical evidence of a plane even being there in many ways is non existent.

Bin Laden is on the FBI 10 most wanted list and its not on there for 911. They don't have enough evidence to get an indictment for him on 911.

I'm not going to get into a thermo dynamics arguement because I am not an expert and the other theories I have heard from people supporting the official version are flat out foolish. There are enough people speaking about the technical aspects of 911 that are more qualified than me.

[Michael Hardner]

Poly: Almost all of the things you say have been debunked by 911myths.com.

There was no stand down.

There were no computer guided jets.

The powers that be could have drummed up support for war in Iraq without 911. They didn't want to control the heroin trade.

I don't think you will ever be convinced, though.

[Canadian Blue]

I dissagree. I think the sadest thing is when people are over there fighting a war and getting killed because they are ordered to and people like you are allowing it to happen by supporting it without being aware of some important facts about the Afganistan mission.

The most import fact is the 911 was an inside job done by the US gov and its the stated reason for us being there. In your line of thinking a soldier only becomes important after he is dead. We are not there to save little school children from the Taliban. Thats silly, naive, emotional and romantic. These do not make war. Money makes war and war is about money.

I am a fulltime reg force soldier, unfortunately with my posting I'm am not on the list to go to Astan, hopefully will be though by the end of my contract. From every other soldier that has gone there they are more then proud to have gone over there, and in fact a member of my trade got shot in the head while in Afganistan. I am more then aware about the Afgan mission since it affects all of us in the CF, every single member. What members of the CF don't really like is when people try to undermine them back home, it demoralizes the troops to hear such BS.

But then again pretty well everybody that disagrees with you is a simply minded idiot. Paranoia will get you nowhere in life, try growing up, and maturing a little bit. The only reason why you have this freedom is because of blood spilled on foreign soil for your freedom.