Six Nations Crisis- “Canada’s Pandora’s Box?”

[NativeCharm]

You can put whatever spin you want on my words Riv, but you are what you are. FYI and others, I don't mind when people disagree with me, I'm here for the debate in hopes of positive outcomes...lol...but to me, you truly ARE FUNNY!

You are not worth my having to prove my logical or rational arguments. We have all seen the limits to your mind, and ability to comprehend.

And I'm not asking for respect and most certainly not yours as its worthless. I am merely asking for RESPECT FOR THE ISSUES!

Try another spin, I need another chuckle.

[Riverwind]

You can put whatever spin you want on my words Riv, but you are what you are. FYI and others, I don't mind when people disagree with me, I'm here for the debate in hopes of positive outcomes

That is laughable - you have no interest in debate. Whenever you are faced with arguments that you cannot counter you start throwing insults. You previous post is typical.

And I'm not asking for respect and most certainly not yours as its worthless. I am merely asking for RESPECT FOR THE ISSUES!

I respect these issues a lot - I think they are very important. If I did not respect the issues I would not spend my time talking about them.

You aren't looking for a debate - you are looking to find people to repeat the holy liturgy of the native rights movement and call for the jihad against the infidels.

[NativeCharm]

LOL, thanks:) I knew you'd give me another chuckle, you're always good for it. You must spend alot of time coming up with these swift remarks. It would be nice if you spent half as much time absorbing the true History of " Canada" and trying to share REAL solutions to these issues.

You say you "respect", but I dont think any of us have really seen it.

p.s. LMAO@holy liturgy...damn that was a good one (wipes my eyes) you crack me up!

[Riverwind]

It would be nice if you spent half as much time absorbing the true History of " Canada"

I don't think there is such as thing as "true" history. History is nothing but a story told to justify the present. That statement applies to your version of the history as well as the version of history that used to be taught in schools in this country.

and trying to share REAL solutions to these issues.

Excellent. Something we agree on. I would like to find a real solution to those issues and I know that a real solution is not going to found by telling aboriginals like yourself to FOAD. However, handing over ownership of all land and resources in the country to native groups is not a real solution either. Are you really interested in finding real solutions that require real compromises or are you simply looking find people that will agree with the "solutions" that you have already decided on?

You say you "respect", but I dont think any of us have really seen it.

As I said respect is two way street. If you want to be shown respect then you have to show respect to others - even if they completely disagree with your point of view.

p.s. LMAO@holy liturgy...damn that was a good one (wipes my eyes) you crack me up!

Its funny because its true...

[scribblet]

It would be nice if you spent half as much time absorbing the true History of " Canada"

I don't think there is such as thing as "true" history. History is nothing but a story told to justify the present. That statement applies to your version of the history as well as the version of history that used to be taught in schools in this country.

[

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As I said respect is two way street. If you want to be shown respect then you have to show respect to others - even if they completely disagree with your point of view.

Its funny because its true...

Excellet points riverwind, some of these posts from the 'natives' here have certainly opened my eyes to the true nature of their intentions - and they are not pretty, indeed I see more racism in their words and language than in anything else I've read.

[Who's Doing What?]

Well, well. It seems as though this discussion has answered the question that initiated this thread.

My apologies for my absence, I was beckoned by the Mother Earth and the drums. If I had been here, I would have attempted to discontiue the disgusting racist remarks that grew completly out of control. I wish I had the powers to change some of the ignorance that exists in Canada, however some people will never change and they are happy to pretend they have all the answers, and sadly, some of them are here in this forum.

For those of you new posters....Welcome and BIG thank you for participating in this forum. There are many posters here who have attempted to hide their racism through carefully chosen words and fabricated statements, however there are the people here that have asked to be educated and are willing to listen, share and learn for the sake of a brighter future for all generations.

Jerry Fortin: I was most amused by your post..you were NEVER a Native supporter, I'm shocked that you would lie about your false conversion. You're more likely to be a drag queen preaching gay rights before you EVER even attempt to embrace an understanding of Native people's. YOU FOOL NO ONE! Please continue with your act, I truly enjoy watching people make an ass of themselves. (applauds)

As for the gutbusting "Riv", well he's the forums ol' local headlining comedy act, he'd be banned if he wasn't so darned funny ( tosses Riv a buffalo nickel). None of what he has to say should EVER be taken seriously. Him and many of his wannabe buddies have issues with Natives having their own economy or any sort of financial gain. They will say anything, and even go so far as to inventing facts so long as it appears as though Native SHOULD NOT...blah blah blah. He lives in a dream world of his own where Native people and treaties and Canadian history do not exist. DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT ever do business witrh this man, as his handshake is as worthless as his word and he will never open his eyes to look at a contract. If he was Native, he'd belong to the trickster family.

I invited many Native and Non-Native people to this forum to witness and participate in discussions in hopes of eliminating racism through knowledge sharing and enlightening discussions. I hope many of us will strive for this goal.

We face many issues with our people and the relationship to Canada, please everyone ~much respect.

Good to hear you invited people here. I can't wait for thier reaction to the news you want their homes and their land and would be willing to starve them out if neeed be, to get it. Or even that Natives feel they have the right bring a fire arm onto anyone's property and hunt game.

Edit: The worst thing possible for the Native cause if for people to actually understand the Native cause. When it is clear to everyone, what the ultimate goal of natives is, sympathy will dry up.

[NativeCharm]

Well then the title of this posting IS indeed very accurate. Not one of you here have yet to take a postion outside your box of hatred. Racism stems from hatred.

I understand that you wish you could rewrite history (love how you deny our history too Riv)and well, it simply won't happen. You folks proved my point. The incident at Caledoina IS going to fester nationwide racism from the non_natives, because you all FEAR that we will gain some of the control that you hold so dearly to your complacent hearts.

I'm sure the fact that the Native people could not be killed off, supressed or be the petting farm marketing ploys for the country is in fact~a tough pill to swallow, but the sooner you all wake up and accept that we are here to stay on our own land, and we will continue to flourish success. The sooner our country will have more pride. The only people that this bothers are racist anglo's. And a few in between.

Many of you are still standing from a racist point of view. Paint your attitudes with whatever words the english language can give you to use, but there is only one that truly identifies what it is. R A C I S M.

As I have said before, yeah we are a race and society of people. It's not our fault , it's our blessing. Just because there is a race involved does not mean we are all racists. The ultimate goal of our people...you still do not understand or we would not be having this discussion, and Now you try to preaCH WHAT YOU think YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS.

It your types of attitudes that breed more stupid people. Know it alls, who really know CRAPOLA.

It is kinda sad really what will be happening to people that are living on stolen land, but AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE, it's their fault too for not doing proper reseach before making a purchase. It's "almost" like history repeating itself, but the shoe is on the other foot, and count your blessings for you have far more options than ever before. The gov't is already graciously putting their arm around the poeple affected and handing them their welfare cheques, on time too They are doing this..WHY????? because they know they have majorly f#@ked up and are hoping if they send you money and options, you won't notice.

Aren't you people getting tired of pointing the finger at the "indian"? calling US RACISTS? Now thats a joke and half! I hope you're not going to charge me for putting up with this comedy act.

It is CRYSTAL CLEAR who has the racist attitudes on this forum, you all self identify with your remarks and verbal attacks. I won't respond anymore to the likes of any of you's unless you got something intelligent to say in respects to these issues.

P.S. Riv Dahlin, I don't throw insults when I feel threatened, it's gonna take alot more than some net bugs to threaten me. I throw them once I get fed up with repeating myself to ignorant people with racist attitudes. Some people here are so ignorant they CAN'T even see their own racism within themselves. Your attempts to discredit my ability to debate with "funnies" such as yourself has failed, again. Time for you to get some new material or better reinforcements.

[jdobbin]

P.S. Riv Dahlin, I don't throw insults when I feel threatened, it's gonna take alot more than some net bugs to threaten me. I throw them once I get fed up with repeating myself to ignorant people with racist attitudes. Some people here are so ignorant they CAN'T even see their own racism within themselves. Your attempts to discredit my ability to debate with "funnies" such as yourself has failed, again. Time for you to get some new material or better reinforcements.

Please refrain from sexist language.

[NativeCharm]

LOL@sexist, oh boy some of you's just jump on the funny wagon too easy...No wonder some of our folks were wagon burners...LOL

[ponyboy]

Take a look around the world riverwind,tell me why you would blindly support people of our genetic make up after the Havoc they have caused.

Where did I say that those 500,000 deserve rights because they are white? I would assume that a good percentage of them are not white. They deserve to have their democratic rights respected because they are human. Their race has nothing to do with it.

As for your other idiotic statement whites have denied democratic rights to every country they have ever set foot in,they had the guns so they had the powered are such an easy target.

As yes, your racism comes out again. Sorry, I don't buy that all white people are guilty crap. People of all races have committed atrocities over the ages and whites are no exception. However, there are a few principals that are designed to ensure that such atrocities do not happen in the future. One of those principals is that everyone has equal rights not matter what their genetic heritage. That is a principal that you claimed to support during the civil rights movement. However, that is a principal that you have abandoned when it comes to Six Nations. Why is that?

You truly do talk in circles riv.Oh! I was also supporting the civil rights movement so that they could receive the forty acres and a mule that old Abe promised them.But like the two-faced governments of this country,they don't honor their promises in" Merica "either.

God! This is too easy!

[jdobbin]

LOL@sexist, oh boy some of you's just jump on the funny wagon too easy...No wonder some of our folks were wagon burners...LOL

Quite simply, if you have a disagreement with someone, don't use sexist language.

[ponyboy]

Posted by Ponyboy

Message to Who's Doing what.I got taken to school with a job that took me all over this country for the last forty years.I've seen how the likes of you treat all minorities,don't talk to me until you've spent some time walking in someone elses shoes.Oh! Ya! mommy and daddy gave you everything you ever wanted you wouldn't last a day.

Here's a message back at ya. I have no issue at all with any minority. You are the racist here. It is you who is saying one group deserves something for no other reason than birthright.

A week ago I would have said Give the Natives half of all crown land left undeveloped. I didn't care about a treaty then either. I just felt it was more than a generous offer and it would put and end to this militantism that is becoming a pattern. The Natives would have more than enough land to practice their way of life and ancient traditions. I thought it would be something good.

But now I know even that much land would never be enough. All the Land, is what they want. Apparently, as it has been expressed on this board, they are more willing to go as far as to starve people out of their homes if that what it takes.

Well that is another, Native supporter the extremist Natives of this board have converted.

Didn't you read my post,i said i learned it in my travels,WHAT's that got to do with First Nations posts here?

What is it with you and riv whenever you get the chance you scream racist.I'm not the one trying to steal someone elses land.I bet you've got a government job Right?

[NativeCharm]

Oh Im sorry, the word "dahlin" offends you? Not only have I been calling Riv "dahlin" since I first came here, but I call many people dahlin. I fail to see how this matters to you. Do you usually poke into everyones biz, or were you looking for a reason to interact with me?

You can hardly call the term "dahlin" a form of sexist "language" lol. Now I have certainly heard it all.

[jdobbin]

Oh Im sorry, the word "dahlin" offends you? Not only have I been calling Riv "dahlin" since I first came here, but I call many people dahlin. I fail to see how this matters to you. Do you usually poke into everyones biz, or were you looking for a reason to interact with me?

You can hardly call the term "dahlin" a form of sexist "language" lol. Now I have certainly heard it all.

I'm interested to hear what you consider sexist language and what you don't consider sexist language. If you can make you point without it, then do so.

[NativeCharm]

I sure get a kick out of the pople that mention land for " way of life" and "ncient customs". What if we want OUR LAND BACK for economical purposes. If we want to make money, then you label us as greedy. WTF we do with our land is our business. Seriously, thats what many of you are scared of, the fact that we will surpass you with success, you claim EQUALITY but only when you are in a position of the majority. No one likes to be wrong, and I don't think any of you (THAT ARE) will have the gonads to admit it. Like my dahlin Riv, who has a serious issue with Native pople having ANY eco-power at all. They can not stomach Native people having ANY power, whether its financial, political or even spiritual.

Don't label us as extremists when we are only doing the best we can to get our points across to those with closed eyes and ears. Pretending we don't exist will not make the issues go away. Many of you "CLAIM" to be or once were supporters but ONLY when you thought we wanted sympathy, which we don't. Now you say we are too extreme and will not support any of our issues. Frankly, that suits us fine for in the long run, it's YOUR childredn and great grand children you are subjecting to generations of racism, for you lack the ability to come to a table of discussion with eyes and ears open at the same time.

[Riverwind]

Like my dahlin Riv, who has a serious issue with Native pople having ANY eco-power at all. They can not stomach Native people having ANY power, whether its financial, political or even spiritual.

I have never said any such thing. I would love to see native communities develop a self-sustaining economy. I simply reject the argument that natives have a right to whatever they demand simply because their ancestors were here first.

[Okwaho]

What Riverbend is saying Native Charm is that he would be happy if we were assimulated into mainstream Canadian society. Sound familiar? They claim we are the "R" word because we will not comply! But we're the "R" word.

[Riverwind]

What Riverbend is saying Native Charm is that he would be happy if we were assimulated into mainstream Canadian society.

I have never said that that I feel that native culture should be assimilated into mainstream society. I have simply said that natives are not entitled to special rights simply because of who their ancestors are.

[NativeCharm]

Riv dahlin, do you suffer from multiple personalities? When asked what do Natives want? When discussing fisheries and etc you clearly stood your position, insisting that our actions were greed based. You and I have have had many discussions on this matter. Go re-read your posts please. But then again, even when its black and white in your face, you will deny deny deny.

We were here first. Land deals were made with us first. NO DENYING THIS FACT. Some of these deals have been honored and many have not. The gov't and the queen have been dragging this on and on for their own selfish agenda, based on resources and corporate powers. Why you fail to realize this is beyond me.

FYI: there are many First nations communities that already have self sustaining economy, with no help from the taxpayers, some of which who foolishly think they pay for "everything" in a Natives life.

Why do I feel that no matter what our demands were, you would reject it? I presume Fear Based Actions. It has been stated over and over again that Native people want to pursue a fair and realistic avenue for land claim resolutions but ignoring the history of the treaties and pretending these "DEALS" did not exist or should not be honored IS NOT FAIR.

If you want to dismiss "inherent rights" then you will also be angering many non-natives. Much of their land, possessions and political powers have been passed down over the years as well.

[Riverwind]

Riv dahlin, do you suffer from multiple personalities? When asked what do Natives want? When discussing fisheries and etc you clearly stood your position, insisting that our actions were greed based.

Your rediculous demands are pure greed based. For example, asking that the entire annual GDP of Canada be turned over to a group 22,000 people has nothing to do with economic development and everything to do with greed.

Why do I feel that no matter what our demands were, you would reject it?

Not all. I am favour of negotiated deals that will require that the status quo be upset in different ways. However, I feel that any negotiated deal should be based on the realities of today and the text of old treaties is irrelevant.

If you want to dismiss "inherent rights" then you will also be angering many non-natives. Much of their land, possessions and political powers have been passed down over the years as well.

No one (other than aboriginals) have political powers that are passed down from generation to generation. I have no problem with land, property and other tangible assets being transferred from generation to generation. I have a big problem with rights and privileges being inherited.

[cybercoma]

I'm such an ignorant non-native. I don't think there should be any treaties or special rights. Welcome to Canada....build your life like everyone else. Hell, immigrants landing here on boats as recently as a couple decades ago have built better lives than some native canadians.

I'm not very understanding of any of this.

[Okwaho]

I'm such an ignorant non-native. I don't think there should be any treaties or special rights. Welcome to Canada....build your life like everyone else. Hell, immigrants landing here on boats as recently as a couple decades ago have built better lives than some native canadians.

I'm not very understanding of any of this.

We know you told us. You're ignorant how could you understand?

[cybercoma]

I choose not to understand why there should be special rights for certain races.

[Who's Doing What?]

I sure get a kick out of the pople that mention land for " way of life" and "ncient customs". What if we want OUR LAND BACK for economical purposes. If we want to make money, then you label us as greedy. WTF we do with our land is our business. Seriously, thats what many of you are scared of, the fact that we will surpass you with success, you claim EQUALITY but only when you are in a position of the majority. No one likes to be wrong, and I don't think any of you (THAT ARE) will have the gonads to admit it. Like my dahlin Riv, who has a serious issue with Native pople having ANY eco-power at all. They can not stomach Native people having ANY power, whether its financial, political or even spiritual.

Don't label us as extremists when we are only doing the best we can to get our points across to those with closed eyes and ears. Pretending we don't exist will not make the issues go away. Many of you "CLAIM" to be or once were supporters but ONLY when you thought we wanted sympathy, which we don't. Now you say we are too extreme and will not support any of our issues. Frankly, that suits us fine for in the long run, it's YOUR childredn and great grand children you are subjecting to generations of racism, for you lack the ability to come to a table of discussion with eyes and ears open at the same time.

Straight up, you are extremists. What the hell else would you call road blocks and intimidation of an entire community, if not extreme?

Damn right people are changing their minds. When the entire country finds out that the natives don't just want more, but they want it all, a heck of a lot more minds will be changed, right quick.

[Okwaho]

Riv dahlin, do you suffer from multiple personalities? When asked what do Natives want? When discussing fisheries and etc you clearly stood your position, insisting that our actions were greed based.

Your rediculous demands are pure greed based. For example, asking that the entire annual GDP of Canada be turned over to a group 22,000 people has nothing to do with economic development and everything to do with greed.

Why do I feel that no matter what our demands were, you would reject it?

Not all. I am favour of negotiated deals that will require that the status quo be upset in different ways. However, I feel that any negotiated deal should be based on the realities of today and the text of old treaties is irrelevant.

If you want to dismiss "inherent rights" then you will also be angering many non-natives. Much of their land, possessions and political powers have been passed down over the years as well.

No one (other than aboriginals) have political powers that are passed down from generation to generation. I have no problem with land, property and other tangible assets being transferred from generation to generation. I have a big problem with rights and privileges being inherited.

Oh come on Riverbend, would you be willing to give away a few acres of your property for nothing? The greed is purely in the hearts of those who seek to take our land. We are not and never where a conquered people. The treaty of Paris which established the border between Canada and the U.S. is as old as some of our treaties and agreements. Go and tell the Americans; "However, I feel that any negotiated deal should be based on the realities of today and the text of old treaties is irrelevant." Why have a border Canada isn't at war with the U.S.? It's obsolete have it taken out. No sense wasting tax payers money on a 300 year old treaty when you're no longer at war.

You see the problem you have with our rights and priviliges is the fact that they are given to us not by you but, by the Creator or God if you will. They've been in place long before Europeans came to visit us here. What you seek to do with us has been tried for generations without success. Now it'll be even harder for you because we are educated this time.