Technology and your Privacy and Freedom.

[GostHacked]

We have seen it in the U.S.A. and now we see it here as well. The more technology we use the more potential of it being abused.

Over at CTV.ca there is an article about Sympatico warning us of Big Brother online. Here is the full article.

Most of you have GPS tracking cell phones. Most of you use the Internet. Some use pagers. Some use PDAs some use wifi laptops. All this can be used to track and trace any given person who poseses and used the devices. Do you not find that alarming? I mean most of us try to use the technology to research things, talk to friends, organize parties. We all use this technology for leisure and work. In comes Big Brother to save us all. But from what? What are they looking for? Are they looking for terrorists? This CTV artle hints on it a bit.

Bell Sympatico has informed its customers that it intends to "monitor or investigate content or your use of your service provider's networks and to disclose any information necessary to satisfy any laws, regulations or other governmental request.''

Their policy has already changed and this is what you get when you have Sympatico now. They flat out tell you your stuff is being monitored. You. The average Canadian.

I have posted a few other articles on this forum regarding technology and how it can be abused. But I really just don't think people get it.

Hows this. I work in IT. I have some pretty neat diagnostic tools for cable modems. I can throw that MAC ID into the program and it will tell me how that modem is doing. I can tell if it went offline, for how long ect. I can also see devices connected to it. So when I tell a customer ' Oh you have a linksys router there, let's do this ...' Rarely do I get someone asking me. 'How do you know it is a Linksys?' Now also I work in Ottawa, I support people in the US. I have access to hotel networks in the US. When people call for support in the hotel they are 'OH you are in Canada.... um you can log into the hotel routers and gateways from there? OH yes I can. I can reboot stuff remotely if needed. Now on the surface this may not be a big deal to most. And really it isn't for most people are not malicious. Out of all the people I work with, there are really only a couple shady characters. But again, they are not really malicious in any way. I work with about 500 people in my building. And now legistlation is trying to go through that would make it mandatory for ISPs to keep data records on their customers for up to six months. So 6 months of your Internet habits are being tracked, traced, categorized and stored... just in case. How comfortable are you with this? So when the government asks for the info, the ISP can hand it all over quite easily.

Your laptop can be tracked to any location you are at. Heck if given the right tools, I can tell when and where you are plugged in, whenever you plug in. EVEN if you are using Wifi with all your encryption on.

So all your information can be monitored through your PC. Cell phones are another great way to track you using GPS, how confident are you that no one else is listening to your conversations? It is merely an electronic signal passing through the air. It also uses triangulation, in order to give you the best signal possible, move to far and the system switches you seamlessly to a closer tower.

We don't have to look no farther than our home on the web here at MapleLeafWeb.com, which was hacked a couple weeks ago. I was pissed, for it installed a virus on my work PC, and really the IT team did not have the systems patched up. Could have compromised my work network instantly. This can cascade to other systems easily.

Take a look at London England. A friend of mine was there recently and was astounded by the amount of close circuit tv cameras that he can plainly see out in the open. All this is to combat crime and terrorism. But despite all that.. well you know what happened. And now the government reigns are pulled even tighter.

How comfortable are you with technology? Post all your concerns. We all wage a political battle online and we are free to express our views and concerns. This can change the way we even post here on MapleLeafWeb. I want to be able to post without fearing prosecution from Big Brother. Some would say, well if you are not doing anything wrong then there is no harm done. True, but if I am doing no harm, why the hell am I being monitored (or actually the possibility of me being monitored) without a warrant and without my knowledge?

We have seen recently the U.S. and the NSA wiretapping issues rasing concerns. And we also see the datamining of financial institutions around the world. Money flow is being monitored as well. Which birngs me to this point. Your bank account. How secure is it? How do you pay for things mostly? Credit card, debit card. Yeah that is me. Recently at my work 4 people were victims of debit card fraud (they had their accounts cleaned out). A local Scotia Bank ATM (in the mall I work in) was to blame. Never using that one again. But you see that often now. ATM's being hacked and modified to steal those funds. So electronic banking, it is easy and convienient, but can be easly abused. All your financial history now is just 1's and 0's. I hope alot of you still ask for printed receipts and have printed bank statements. Run your debit card through a machine at the grocery store. Is the device compromised? Is the clerk malicious in any way? Is someone trying to look at my pin? Where are those security cameras? Are they pointing at the debit machine to check what PIN I enter (Ok that may be extreme but with all this technology %100 possible.

All this technology is great. I am a nerd/geek and I really love technology. But I am also aware that a darker side exists. I just want to let you all know what is at stake. Your privacy, and your freedom.

I apologize if this post seems a little disjointed. Let's hear it.

[Michael Hardner]

Do you not find that alarming?

Yes, I find it not alarmed, ie. I'm not alarmed

How comfortable are you with technology? Post all your concerns. We all wage a political battle online and we are free to express our views and concerns. This can change the way we even post here on MapleLeafWeb. I want to be able to post without fearing prosecution from Big Brother. Some would say, well if you are not doing anything wrong then there is no harm done. True, but if I am doing no harm, why the hell am I being monitored (or actually the possibility of me being monitored) without a warrant and without my knowledge?

All that's being monitored is your web activity. The urls that you visit, presumably if they're on a watch list. YOU are not being monitored.

All this technology is great. I am a nerd/geek and I really love technology. But I am also aware that a darker side exists. I just want to let you all know what is at stake. Your privacy, and your freedom.

What freedom is this ? Freedom to download detailed instructions on how to build explosives without anybody knowing ? I'm willing to forgo that freedom for more security.

If you walk in a major urban area, you're being videotaped constantly as you pass by store windows and banks. Do you feel violated knowing that ? I don't. If there's a security advantage in putting cameras in public, and I think there is, then we should do it.

Terms like 'big brother' and so forth evoke strong feelings about a police state, but we're nowhere near such a thing happening, and if it did eventually happen it wouldn't matter anyway. People have to let go of these knee-jerk reactions to security and surveillance and think about the real advantages that these technologies bring.

Would you give up the person you love the most for the knowledge that you can walk down the street without being videotaped, or the knowledge that the police can't trace your calls (if they wanted to) ? It seems like a pretty easy question to me.

[FTA Lawyer]

Do you not find that alarming?

Yes, I find it not alarmed, ie. I'm not alarmed

How comfortable are you with technology? Post all your concerns. We all wage a political battle online and we are free to express our views and concerns. This can change the way we even post here on MapleLeafWeb. I want to be able to post without fearing prosecution from Big Brother. Some would say, well if you are not doing anything wrong then there is no harm done. True, but if I am doing no harm, why the hell am I being monitored (or actually the possibility of me being monitored) without a warrant and without my knowledge?

All that's being monitored is your web activity. The urls that you visit, presumably if they're on a watch list. YOU are not being monitored.

All this technology is great. I am a nerd/geek and I really love technology. But I am also aware that a darker side exists. I just want to let you all know what is at stake. Your privacy, and your freedom.

What freedom is this ? Freedom to download detailed instructions on how to build explosives without anybody knowing ? I'm willing to forgo that freedom for more security.

If you walk in a major urban area, you're being videotaped constantly as you pass by store windows and banks. Do you feel violated knowing that ? I don't. If there's a security advantage in putting cameras in public, and I think there is, then we should do it.

Terms like 'big brother' and so forth evoke strong feelings about a police state, but we're nowhere near such a thing happening, and if it did eventually happen it wouldn't matter anyway. People have to let go of these knee-jerk reactions to security and surveillance and think about the real advantages that these technologies bring.

Would you give up the person you love the most for the knowledge that you can walk down the street without being videotaped, or the knowledge that the police can't trace your calls (if they wanted to) ? It seems like a pretty easy question to me.

I'll give you that the "Big Brother" thing is often way overdone, but I am with GostHacked in the sense that he is trying to actually get people to critically think about the issue of their privacy and trying to combat complacency.

Our Supreme Court has said that it is okay for police to hover over your house in a helicopter with FLIR infra-red radar and track the sources of heat emanating from your home without a warrant...many people do not know that. Now, we're some distance away from a true police state, but a few more of these kinds of decisions, and we start dangerously eroding our ability as citizens to be unmolested by our government.

You also have, as most people do, a strong sense of trust in the "authorities" to not misuse their powers for improper purposes. As someone that has seen police fabricate a 911 call in order to effect a warrantless entry to a home, make up confidential informants or anonymous tipsters in order to justify unlawful surveillance and intentionally refuse to disclose information to prosecutors about questionable interrogations or investigative techniques, I do not have the same level of calm comfort.

Take a look at this link for example:

Edmonton Police Shenanigans

P1: I hope the information that they have that he is leaving shortly is good.

P5: Yeah. Apparently it comes in via an anonymous caller, so -- (laughing) -- inside job. How is my cloak now, Glenn?

------

P3: Do you want to hear the message? We just had it forwarded to us.

P3: FYI an anonymous caller stated that target, his occupation, is extremely 10-18 (drunk) at the O.T. (Overtime) downtown and will be driving home in a dark-coloured vehicle. You know what that is, the make, parked at the location. This is a regular occurrence for so-and-so, the target, T1, and the caller is fed up with T1's hypocritical editorials about drunk drivers and any police comments.

When you read the whole thing you can see this is senior police officers inventing a story of an anonymous caller to give them reasonable grounds to detain an individual and attempt to charge him with impaired driving...unfortunately for the hundreds of unlawful man hours put into this b-s "sting" operation, the "target" took a cab home...

I think more people ought to stay in touch with just how far the government and the police are allowed to go...and just how far they go even when not allowed...to ensure that we are not going down a dangerous path all in the name of the ever-elusive "security" of a nation.

FTA

[Charles Anthony]

All this technology is great. I am a nerd/geek and I really love technology. But I am also aware that a darker side exists. I just want to let you all know what is at stake. Your privacy, and your freedom.

To all of the spies listening in on my cell phone conversations: "Can any of you help me change my TIME settings and show me how to find the REDIAL button on my new cell phone???" This wacky new technology is getting so complicated that I can not even get it to work myself!!!!

In all seriousness, I think the concerns of privacy violations are very valid. However, I have no (or very little) power to oppose it personally. Therefore, I resign myself to accepting it mainly because I am not afraid of it. Maybe I am naive but I think there are more important things that my municipal, provincial and federal government do that need to be changed -- whereby I have more ability to have make an impact on things that matter and things that I can see.

My parents came from totalitarian communist countries. They told me and my siblings stories of people getting wisked away at night in the old country. Also, my grandmothers do not know where my grandfathers are buried. We thought our parents were crazy and we did not believe them when we were younger. It is only as an adult (and hearing similar stories from other adults from other countries -- in fact, some posts on this forum!) that I realize that maybe the evil stories of totalitarian communist governments are in fact valid. Compared to what happens in other countries, I feel safe in Canada. I am glad my parents left their old country.

On the other hand, I will not dismiss the fear that these potential privacy violations are just a crack in the door that can open up into something more severe. One may say that at these early stages, it may be easier to nip it in the bud before the hidden bureacracy behind it all becomes too big. Exactly how or even what we should do, I do not know.

[Michael Hardner]

FTA Lawyer,

Thanks for your input...

I'll give you that the "Big Brother" thing is often way overdone, but I am with GostHacked in the sense that he is trying to actually get people to critically think about the issue of their privacy and trying to combat complacency.

I didn't mean to come down too hard on Gost. I knee jerk with the best of them, I guess. Good for him for starting a thread on such an important topic. My reaction was mostly based on the superficial articles I read in mainstream newspapers that use the same hoary cliches from Orwells novel over and over again.

You also have, as most people do, a strong sense of trust in the "authorities" to not misuse their powers for improper purposes. As someone that has seen police fabricate a 911 call in order to effect a warrantless entry to a home, make up confidential informants or anonymous tipsters in order to justify unlawful surveillance and intentionally refuse to disclose information to prosecutors about questionable interrogations or investigative techniques, I do not have the same level of calm comfort.

I know that police behave badly, but the nature of the crimes being investigated leads me to think that this is less of a threat. We're not sending 'beat cops' after international terrorists, after all. We presumably have special teams whose sole mandate is to monitor for terrorist activity. Although government agencies are capable of pretty stupid things, I can't think of examples of abuse that would outweigh the advantages of these types of surveillance.

Can you ?

[GostHacked]

FTA, thanks... you give me a great idea for a website now.

It's alot of what I have seen in the past 10 years in regards to technology. Before it was not that intertwined into our daily lives. Now it's so common, it's like it is a permanent part of us. Many who use these technologies do not understand what goes on behoind the scenes. They just want it to work. The less you know, (let's say a computer connected to the Internet) the easier you can be duped to think everything is ok. These are the people that need to wake up and learn the technology. We are in the Information Age, and it is going to get much more techy in the near future. Talking about RDIF chip implants under the skin. Hell, it may be that those nano bots that can fight off desieses can be hacked by a third party and boom, they have complete control of you. This is extreme, but we have all seen this in the movies. And real life seems to imitate movies (or the other way around)

With all I have seen in regards to monitoring things to catch terrorists to me is a false security. If you look at the rhetoric before, that terrorists want to harm us and our freedoms (little tired of hearing the same thing over and over again) These terrorists were from abroad. And now they say the fear of homegrown terrorism is more of a threat than OUTSIDE terrorism. No longer are they monitoring international calls/emails, they are monitoring .. ok let's use the right word here SPYING on the average Canadian. Because now you are a threat to the system. Yes you the average Canadian.

Bit by bit things change, and the government gets more access to your personal information, less and less hurdles to overcome. First it was phone numbers being tracked, then emails, then financial institutions. All your electronic data is being monitored somehow.

Did you know this about websites? Each time you visit this website Greg has the ability (part of the functionality of it) to track your IP address. Those funky numbers. Now we know Greg is not a jerk. And you hope he would not use the information against you. So what if this website is being run on a Sympatico connection? Not only is he being monitored, but everyone who visits this site. And if the government wants those records, they get them. Greg may not even be aware of it.

So the webpage can track your IP. You can take that number 123.123.123.123(example) and do a whois, or a lookup on it. Now that way I can tell what ISP you are with. Let's say for the heck of it, I fear I am being hacked by that IP address. I can talk to the help desk of that company and get information on who was connecting and causing me harm at that time. It is not hard to do. Although the ISP may not want to give that information to you as a person, but if you are an authoritive figure, it can be handed to them instantly and without question. Also with DSL and cable connections, you can be monitired 24/7.

IN the 70s and 80s you have your basic telephone. Since wireless phones have not been invented, it was hard to spy on any given person. You had to use small devices (bugs) to hear things. These had to be planted in the place to be effective. You can get wiretaps, but the there were long processes of getting a warrant to spy on you. So if they have a warrent, they have already been tracking you and suspect you are a criminal. The eveidence they gather through these methods is slow but effective.

Zoom ahead to 2006. No such warrants are really needed anymore. Your PC is the weakest link. How many of you realize that your webcam can be used against you? Leave your PC on? Do you leave the camera on? If someone can access your PC through a back door (plenty of viruses that facilitate just this) I would be able to look right into your home. At anytime. All it takes is the pressing of a few keystrokes and it is all done. And it can be done from anywhere.

I want to make people aware of the slippery slope we are going down. More technology. The government wants to control the technology as well, that is why these new clauses are comming out and even our laws are changing to make it easier for one to be monitored.

It does not happen over night, but when you look back in the past 30 years and see how far we have come. And you see the issues that have arisen with the technology, but you say still, meh I am not really concerned. The government is not always up to good. Not everyone in the government is a good guy. So learn to protect yourself.

CharlesAnthony. I know what you are saying. And that is the part that needs to change. You can make a difference. Never think that you can't. With that line of thinking you have already been defeated. And it is a crack in the door.

[Michael Hardner]

It all comes down to fear, Gost.

I'm more afraid of a proven and tangible threat that exists here and now than this:

Hell, it may be that those nano bots that can fight off desieses can be hacked by a third party and boom, they have complete control of you.

With all due respect, your fears seem to be rooted in fiction, fantasy and 'what ifs'. My fears are rational, and have been realized in New York, London, and Madrid. Unfortunately, there are enough people who are afraid of these abstractions that you may actually win out in the political arena.

As much as I enjoyed that book, sometimes I really wish Orwell hadn't written it.

[GostHacked]

It all comes down to fear, Gost.

I'm more afraid of a proven and tangible threat that exists here and now than this:

Hell, it may be that those nano bots that can fight off desieses can be hacked by a third party and boom, they have complete control of you.

With all due respect, your fears seem to be rooted in fiction, fantasy and 'what ifs'. My fears are rational, and have been realized in New York, London, and Madrid. Unfortunately, there are enough people who are afraid of these abstractions that you may actually win out in the political arena.

As much as I enjoyed that book, sometimes I really wish Orwell hadn't written it.

40 years ago, all this technology we have and use now, was classified as science fiction.

[August1991]

I know that police behave badly, but the nature of the crimes being investigated leads me to think that this is less of a threat. We're not sending 'beat cops' after international terrorists, after all. We presumably have special teams whose sole mandate is to monitor for terrorist activity. Although government agencies are capable of pretty stupid things, I can't think of examples of abuse that would outweigh the advantages of these types of surveillance.

Can you ?

Michael, I think you are being a bit naive. Sometimes it's a good idea to consider the "worst case scenario" and when it comes to intrusive police tactics, imagine the police were utterly corrupt or politically motivated.

In general, we protect against corrupted power by creating oversight and counterweights. We must extend the rules for evidence to new technologies. I think the police should have to obtain a search warrant which requires them convincing a judge of the need to investigate.

I'm not certain a police state is any safer than an open society.

[Michael Hardner]

Michael, I think you are being a bit naive. Sometimes it's a good idea to consider the "worst case scenario" and when it comes to intrusive police tactics, imagine the police were utterly corrupt or politically motivated.

You can consider any scenario, but if things got to that point would it really be helpful that we didn't have these things today ?

In general, we protect against corrupted power by creating oversight and counterweights. We must extend the rules for evidence to new technologies. I think the police should have to obtain a search warrant which requires them convincing a judge of the need to investigate.

All of this has to be considered in the context of the threat involved.

And - in order to ask for a search warrant, the police first have to have suspects. Monitoring internet use, and cross-referencing to telephone records and watch lists would produce a list of suspects from which to work. The police could then ask for warrants on those people.

I'm not certain a police state is any safer than an open society.

That's a light-years leap from where we are today: an open society threatened by terrorism. I'd say, let's split it down the middle. Again, consider the real threats here. Even if one attack happens, we'll feel far less secure than we would if there were one hundred cameras pointing at us walking down the street.

[August1991]

Michael, my basic idea was that we grant the State tremendous power and so we must protect ourselves against its abuse. In general, we do that by creating oversight (police must obtain a search warrant) and counterweights (CSIS operates separately from the RMCP).

These principles should be adapted to new technologies.

[Michael Hardner]

Michael, my basic idea was that we grant the State tremendous power and so we must protect ourselves against its abuse. In general, we do that by creating oversight (police must obtain a search warrant) and counterweights (CSIS operates separately from the RMCP).

These principles should be adapted to new technologies.

New technologies have a different character than old technologies, so new approaches are needed. There are examples of suspicious activity that automatically triggers reporting in non-digital society.

If you deposit large sums of cash into a bank account, the bank will note that activity and pass it on.

If you receive packages that look questionable, or from agencies that are suspicious, then you will be reported.

There's no question of people "listening in" on the phone calls of average Canadians here, it's a question of being able to trace communications.

[FTA Lawyer]

Michael, my basic idea was that we grant the State tremendous power and so we must protect ourselves against its abuse. In general, we do that by creating oversight (police must obtain a search warrant) and counterweights (CSIS operates separately from the RMCP).

These principles should be adapted to new technologies.

New technologies have a different character than old technologies, so new approaches are needed. There are examples of suspicious activity that automatically triggers reporting in non-digital society.

If you deposit large sums of cash into a bank account, the bank will note that activity and pass it on.

If you receive packages that look questionable, or from agencies that are suspicious, then you will be reported.

There's no question of people "listening in" on the phone calls of average Canadians here, it's a question of being able to trace communications.

Bank reporting is not gratuitous, it's pursuant to money laundering legislation...and of course, legislation is how the government keeps tabs on us. Your example is actually in support of GostHacked's original point, not yours...it is just another instance of government collecting information about us...if not constantly kept in check, the potential for abuse is huge.

Really, what business is it to the government if I deposit $10,000.00 or more in cash into my bank account?

It makes it far more liekly that I am a successful businessman than a terrorist or a money-launderer. Does this reporting requirement make society safe from these evils? I can't see how.

And really, with how easy it can be done (and maybe Gosthacked can enlighten us about the security of VOIP phone conversations i.e. how easily they can be intercepted) what other than blind faith makes you say "there's no question of people "listening in" on the phone calls of average Canadians here..."

How do you know this with such certainty?

And I'm not a conspiracy theorist...I have information from a police officer acquaintance who tells me that it is commonplace for them to use illegal wiretaps to help further an investigation...the cops just don't document them and don't try to introduce the recordings or statements contained therein as evidence in court...SO NOBODY OTHER THAN THE COPS WHO DID IT EVER KNOW IT WAS DONE!!!

FTA

[Charles Anthony]

If you deposit large sums of cash into a bank account, the bank will note that activity and pass it on.

If you receive packages that look questionable, or from agencies that are suspicious, then you will be reported.

There's no question of people "listening in" on the phone calls of average Canadians here, it's a question of being able to trace communications.

My initial gut reaction (before trying to reason it through) is that I object to all of the above. However, I derive some comfort in the following facts:

1) if everybody in Canada is being snoopervized, we are dealing with a huge amount of information most of which will be the same

2) only real oddballs will stand out

I try to put myself in the shoes of a "spy" snoopervizer (whatever you want to call them) and I bet that normal (who are not conspiring to overthrow the government or plan terrorist attacks) people who deposit large sums of money or receive weird packages will still look different from truly dangerous people. The worst thing that could happen is for the "spies" to make a grand mistake and blow their own cover. For their "spy" tactics to continue to work, they must be a lot more careful than we can imagine.

Statistically, the odds are in the favor of innocent people.

[Michael Hardner]

FTA,

Your example is actually in support of GostHacked's original point, not yours

This is true, if you turn around the banking regulation as an example of too much government power. My point, though, is that regulations - triggers - like this already exist all over the place. It seems to me that they don't get the same sort of breathless comparison to Orwell, I suppose because they use old technology.

And really, with how easy it can be done (and maybe Gosthacked can enlighten us about the security of VOIP phone conversations i.e. how easily they can be intercepted) what other than blind faith makes you say "there's no question of people "listening in" on the phone calls of average Canadians here..."

How do you know this with such certainty?

Does the government have the resources to listen to tens of millions of calls per day ? Otherwise, is there any point to listening in to random conversations to see if terrorism conversations are happening ?

If you gave the power to trace and match phone numbers to a dedicated anti-terror team, I don't see how it could be abused, as that team wouldn't be interested in other types of crime.

[Michael Hardner]

I love that word, Snoopervisor, by the way.

[GostHacked]

In reply to the VOIP.

Since it goes through your Internet connection, yes it can be monitored as well. I think it may be easier to monitor since you need an Internet connection and they require an IP address to get online. Easier to track and trace. I don't know if there is a 'hide number' when using it. There is no *69 to get the number of who just called you. Most of the VOIP services do not have even essential 911 services.

The privacy issues are still there with VOIP and almost anyone on the net can intercept or monitor the call.

http://www.networkworld.com/weblogs/convergence/012219.html This is an example of the NSA/ATT fiasco currently going on in the U.S. (I posted this in the US Forums some time ago) And by reports it happened in late 2001 or early 2002. 10 Different locations around the US at ATTs major datacenters.

I am not a real expert on VOIP so I cannot say all that it could entail. But just being connected to the Internet eventhought it may use a slightly different protocol, it is subject to the same monitoring methods.

[Topaz]

There's lots going on in Canada and the US that people don't know about. I've read were the NSA used satellite through Belgium to monitor US citizens phone, e-mails etc. I read were the CIA asked Canada for info on Canadian bank accounts, (they were looking for terrorists) . I also notice since Harper has come down on the media, that Yahoo.ca has taken away the "discuss" option at the bottom of their news pages. I e-mail ask why and got back a "bush reply" alot of nothing! They didn't answer my question ! There's too many secrets in this govt for a govt that said that they would be open....NOT!!!!

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear GostHacked,

A very interesting thread. Thanks for posting some very valuable 'inside information'.

I found out some years ago that the police monitor payphones as well. When 'voice recognition' programs were developed, some years ago, I was (back in my pot-smoking days) going to pick up a bag o'weed from a friend of mine, and a co-worker asked me to get one for him too. I hadn't got it yet, but I called my buddy from a payphone to ask him for the money up front, and in his best 'gangster voice', he asked "Where's my dope?"

I replied "Where's your money?"

We both chuckled, and I asked him to meet me at a specific Taco Time location, at 11:30 am. Lo and behold, guess who was waiting? Two (obviously rookie) undercover cops, complete with an unmarked Crown Vic in the parking lot. As soon as my buddy (and his friend) came over and sat with me (the place was almost empty, lunch rush hadn't started yet) the pair of them turned and stared at us. Since I didn't have the weed with me, we got up and left, gave a 'nod and a wink' to them, had a good chuckle, and 'did our thing' later in the day.

Later, from some other friends, I heard pretty much the same story, an arrangement over a paypphone to meet behind a 7-11 in Lethbridge, and a couple of buddies got busted for possession.

I don't know if public phones are considered 'public domain' or not, but we were kids, and learned our lesson.

[GostHacked]

Another article in the Ottawa Citizen regarding Canadian ISPs monitoring your information. Brought a few more things to light. There is a new article in the Bell/Sympatico agreement (since they have reserved the right to 'change services/policy without notice') Article is on page A10 of the Ottawa Citizen (Monday July 3, 2006, writer - David Reevely.

They have revised the service agreement to :

'monitor or investigate content or your use of your service provider's networks and to disclose any information necessary to satisfy any laws, regulations or other governmental requests'

The article questions what 'other governmental requests' means. What does it mean? Leaves it pretty open in my opinion. What kind of things can they ask? I guess anything.

Hows this to further this thread. I know you have some questions regarding technology and I would like to answer it as best I could. If I cannot find the answer, I will do my best to locate it somehow.

Kind of a poll here :

What forms of communication technology do you understand most? (and scale it 1-10)

What forms would you LIKE to understand more?

Where do you think your privacy(information) can be easily compromised?

Where do you think your privacy(information) can be easily abused?

[Topaz]

Does this mean we can't say anything hasty about the politicans or Bush?? We can't say that our PM , whose not really cozying up the the US president, is going to the White House for a 60th birthday bash with Bush??OK, I didn't say! Or Yahoo.ca all of a sudden, quite putting forums at the end of their "news reports". I guess we aren't suppose talk about the new govt. I guess I shouldn't talk about how the US used satellites, directed from Belgium to spy on Americans.

[GostHacked]

Does this mean we can't say anything hasty about the politicans or Bush?? We can't say that our PM , whose not really cozying up the the US president, is going to the White House for a 60th birthday bash with Bush??OK, I didn't say! Or Yahoo.ca all of a sudden, quite putting forums at the end of their "news reports". I guess we aren't suppose talk about the new govt. I guess I shouldn't talk about how the US used satellites, directed from Belgium to spy on Americans.

Actually the more you talk about it, the more people will take note of it. I would hate for all this stuff to get swept under the rug because 'you are not suposed to talk about it' Screw that. Be a patriot and QUESTION authority. So yeah talk about it, make people aware of it. Know your own rights and freedoms. Don't let the government take away your freedoms and privacy.

If you have any articles of imortance please post them in this thread!. This was part of the purpose of this thread is to make people aware of how all this wonderful technology can be used against you, when it is to benifit you and society as a whole.

[geoffrey]

Some of this technology is important and even a few minor privacy issues can result in major security gains for all society. Generally I agree with you on this topic Gost, I don't trust the government knowing everything about me either. But we must be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear GostHacked,

What forms of communication technology do you understand most? (and scale it 1-10)

I'll assume 10 to be highest...

telephones:7

cell-phones:6

internet: 5

'voip':1 (don't even know what the hell it is)

e-mail: 8

conversation: 2-10

They say that chaos is the lowest form of communication, but I have to suggest it is 'farting'.

What forms would you LIKE to understand more?

Hell, I don't even know how to use all of the features on this forum, and I haven't a clue how to work the wife's new TV remote. It took me about 6 months to learn how to change the channel. That's about all I know, since I don't watch it a whole lot.

Where do you think your privacy(information) can be easily compromised?

Generally, the selling of information amongst companies of my 'comsumer info' is an irritant, but I don't know what the limits are and what rules they must follow. It even bothers me when stores ask for my postal code or phone # for demographic studies.

Really, you and FTA Lawyer seem to be best placed for this kind of info...

[GostHacked]

Some of this technology is important and even a few minor privacy issues can result in major security gains for all society. Generally I agree with you on this topic Gost, I don't trust the government knowing everything about me either. But we must be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

No exactly. The bathwater is still good. Many people do not understand alot of this new technology and can easily be taken advantage of, by ciminals, and your own government. Technology is changing, and so are our laws governing its use. One should be aware of what they are getting into. Read the policies ect.

If any of you people have installed software, a game or office suite, you were to be sure to read the entire End User License Agreement{EULA). Right?