Merry Fitzmas!

[BHS]

RIIIGHT.

Zarcawi is whacked after how many years? While Bin Laden is still at large? This is as much of a flash in the pan as capturing Saddam. So bask in the "glow" while you can.

This is too funny. The "Bush could have got Zarkman years ago" meme meets the "Iraq is a huge waste of time because Bin Laden is still alive" meme. Not mentioned: the "Bin Laden wouldn't be in hiding if Clinton had taken him off the Sudanese governments' hands years before any of this mess started" meme. Guess you forgot about that one.

Bush makes a surprise visit to Iraq IN A U.S. FORTRESS. Why? Because the outside isn't secure. Not much to celebrate there either.

I hear the White House is pretty solidly fortified as well. The man's quite clearly a bloody coward.

Now Rove isn't indicted THIS TIME. Moreover, what kind of pathetic party needs to celebrate "non indictment"

Clearly not the sort of party that celebrates a election "non win".

-- that's the sort of thing that organized crime celebrates. You'll note that the White House isn't lauding itself for that: as incompetent as they are, they STILL have more sense than you do!

And if things had gone the other way, and Rove had been indicted, it would have been the greatest day of your life and we never would have heard the end of it. We're just rubbing it in that THAT'S NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. HA HA! The difference is, a week from now we'll never speak of this again.

The more you talk, the more damage you do your dogma. In other words, KEEP TALKING, you open up so many cans of worms in your meat-fisted posting that you are a real assett to the middle. I just hope you don't turn off so many Americans that it swings the pendulum ALL THE WAY TO THE LEFT at some future point. After all, I find Hillary Clinton's positions and politics as cynical and as ill informed as Georgie!

You think that Hillary is on the extreme left? And you're also assuming that the media is so anti-Democrat that they'll keep this defeat in the headlines long enough to turn off voters over GOP gloating? And you're questioning our analysis on this issue? Which by the way has been CORRECT ALL ALONG.

You've gone a bit beyond the facts, America1 (damn, I wish folks like you wouldn't embarass the rest of us abroad by linking your neocon mentality to patriotic sounding screen names - you don't even represent a majority opinion anymore, but in fact a rather pathetic minority).

I tried, very quickly, to come up with a snappy comeback for this, but there's nothing funnier I could think of than that you go by the name Darth Buddha. Which, by the way, is tres unique.

Libby is still on trial,

...on charges not related to the material facts of the underlying case...

the Abramov visits to Herr Rove are a new area of scrutiny. Rove outed a CIA operative and got away with it, but Libby could still cut a deal that fries him if the heat gets to be too much.

Yeah, Libby's going to make up stuff about Rove (in essense, perjure himself) to get himself out of a perjury charge that boils down to his word against the word of reporters about if and when particular conversations took place. That's likely.

He's still at risk in the Plame case, just not in the immediate future.

"He" in this sentence could be referring to either Libby or Rove. Who are you talking about (not that it really matters)?

Then too, the Abramov bribery is another chance at winding up in the dock. If Abramov lives up to his menacing suggestions regarding the White House, there's still PLENTY of opportunity for Mr. Rove to spend some quality time in a federal prison.

Abramov, Nancy Pelosi would have us believe, is the epitome of the Republican corruption machine. That you would take him at his word as a means of feeding your scandal fantasies is pretty pathetic.

He's innocent? Just when was THAT announced?

Oh, yeah. Never.

You need a remedial course in civics too, Shady. What must our friends to the north THINK of our education system when we have the likes of you not comprehending the basics of the American legal system? Weren't you supposed to cover that in your sophomore year (of HIGHSCHOOL).

And yet, your reading comprehension sucks. Shady was clearly stating his opinion, and not citing a legal finding. And no, we don't study American civics in grade 10. We barely touch on Canadian civics. (See, 'cause Shady's from London, Ontario, as his margin profile makes clear.)

[BHS]

Keep Meltingdown..

Meltdown? Is that the best you can do? Come ON, you can do better than that. Where are your spoon fed talking points? Where is your

I enjoy sharpening my teeth with folks like you: I'm schooled in philosophy and logic, so dealing with your kind of BS doesn't come natural. You're a freaking posterboy for dogmatic ignorance, lies, and irrationality.

Too bad I have to go to a leftist blog to practice on your mirror images amongst lefties.

Oh, and do keep your head in a dark place.

Heaven forbid you use your own eyes, or your own brain.

You wouldn't be of any use to me at all if you did that.

Because there's just so much philosophy, so much logic, in your ad hominem screed. You're practically Noam Chomsky here. (I'm assuming you'll take that as a compliment.) I'm getting goosebumps.

[BHS]

While logic isn't what I use to earn a living, it's NOT an asset in dealing with Johnny boy, Burnsy, and their ilk. I actually mean JUST what I said: dealing with folks who lie, distort, and get their facts bassackwards are tough for me because I don't usually have to deal with such blatant examples on a day to day basis. In undergrad, I would have been docked for even acknowledging that sort of crap. In debunking neocon falsehoods and half truths, that's a REAL liability.

In a modern American university, I can believe it. Say, did you go to Yale?

I really DO want to get better at dealing with them, and I'm a bit out of practise. In this case, education in one field (logic) is a DISADVANTAGE in the other (pure retoric, fielding smears and lies, etc.)

They actually still offer a degree in pure rhetoric? Who says classical education is dead!

so I'm not pumping myself up, I'm admitting a real weakness.

For those of you at home keeping score of literary devices, this is a fairly decent example of litotes.

[BHS]

Dear Shady,

And I'm quite capable of comprehending that, when one isn't charged with a crime, it's very difficult to be guilty of it.

LOL. You are mincing words in your favour. By that logic, no one who does anything is 'guilty' before they get caught, so why would they ever be arrested? You are trying to substitute legal declarations for fact by implication . 'Not being found guilty' doesn't mean you didn't do it. Just ask Orenthal.

Let me go the other way: when one hasn't committed a crime, it's very difficult to be found guilty of it.

Just to save time, if your response to this that Rove committed the crime but hasn't been charged yet, then I suggest you've committed murder and haven't been charged yet. There. Now you and Rove are in similar circumstances. Enjoy.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear BHS,

How is "Turd Blossom" clever? I guess I don't read enough lefty stuff afterall, because I've never seen this particular scatalogical masterpiece adequately explained.

This isn't 'lefty stuff' (except when used disparagingly, I guess), it is Bush Jr.'s nickname for Rove. Evidently there is a flower that thrives in cattle excrement in Texas, and Bush himself thought that this vernacular term was a fitting comparison to Rove.

Let me go the other way: when one hasn't committed a crime, it's very difficult to be found guilty of it.

I agree, and this is much better wording.

Just to save time, if your response to this that Rove committed the crime but hasn't been charged yet, then I suggest you've committed murder and haven't been charged yet. There. Now you and Rove are in similar circumstances. Enjoy.

Feel free to suggest away. Both are equally possible.

[Shady]

Just ask Orenthal

At least Orenthal was charged with a crime and found guilty in a civil suit. Rove's had a Special Counsel in conjunction with a Grand Jury look into any suggested wrong-doing, and wasn't charged. Give it a rest. It's over.

[Black Dog]

How is "Turd Blossom" clever? I guess I don't read enough lefty stuff afterall, because I've never seen this particular scatalogical masterpiece adequately explained.

"Turd Blossom" is Bush's pet name for Rover. I believe it's a Texanism for a flower that blooms from cow shit (a reference to Karl's ability to fall into a pile of shit and come out smelling like a rose.)

At least Orenthal was charged with a crime and found guilty in a civil suit. Rove's had a Special Counsel in conjunction with a Grand Jury look into any suggested wrong-doing, and wasn't charged. Give it a rest. It's over.

What is it with you right wingers and your inability to grasp basic legal concepts like the difference between civil and criminal proceedings. No one can be found guilty in a civil suit. Civil suits impose judgements of liability, wherein the standard is lower than the rigorous "beyond a reasonable" doubt standards of criminal suits.

[BHS]

I just did a quick calculation, and post #26 on this thread was my 1000th post, and none of you noticed.

Yay me.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear BHS,

I just did a quick calculation, and post #26 on this thread was my 1000th post, and none of you noticed.

Well done. Welcome to the exclusive club of "People Who Won't Shut Up". (just kidding, as I'm higher than you in that club!)

[BHS]

Dear BHS,

I just did a quick calculation, and post #26 on this thread was my 1000th post, and none of you noticed.

Well done. Welcome to the exclusive club of "People Who Won't Shut Up". (just kidding, as I'm higher than you in that club!)

"Thank you, thank you all. I'd like to give a shout out to God, 'cause he's like, my biggest supporter. And I'd like to thank my mom for having me, 'cause without her I wouldn't be here. And I'd like to thank The Red Hot Chili Peppers, and Sloan, and Aretha Franklin, Mitsou..."

Hey, I gotta pad my posting numbers somehow, if I expect to make it to 2000.

[sharkman]

You forgot to thank the little people! I'm only at 500 and something posts, oh well.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear BHS and sharkman,

Hey, I gotta pad my posting numbers somehow, if I expect to make it to 2000.

It is the quality, not the quantity, that matters (the motto of my wiener, Mr. Wiggleby).

[BHS]

Dear BHS and sharkman,

Hey, I gotta pad my posting numbers somehow, if I expect to make it to 2000.

It is the quality, not the quantity, that matters (the motto of my wiener, Mr. Wiggleby).

And so it is, that a thread about the evil of KKKarl Rove has decended into dick jokes. Somehow that seems appropriate.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear BHS,

And so it is, that a thread about the evil of KKKarl Rove has decended into dick jokes. Somehow that seems appropriate

Oh yeah...Rove. Nothing is beneath him. It seems he will walk away from this with Scooter taking the fall. The only thing we know for sure is that Rove declared "Wilson's wife is fair game". Tantamount to 'giving the green light' to expose a CIA operative, an illegal act. It must be nice to have friends in high places, that have the power to say "We decided not to charge him".

[BHS]

Oh yeah...Rove. Nothing is beneath him. It seems he will walk away from this with Scooter taking the fall. The only thing we know for sure is that Rove declared "Wilson's wife is fair game". Tantamount to 'giving the green light' to expose a CIA operative, an illegal act. It must be nice to have friends in high places, that have the power to say "We decided not to charge him".

You mean, "expose a covert CIA operative". Which Valerie Plame was not, by her husband's own indirect admission in his book. And Fitz is no friend of Karl Rove. He just has more sense than that nimrod in the Duke rape case. Speaking of which, do we have a thread going about that?

And also, Scooter Libby isn't going to take a fall. He's going to get out of the charges without penalty, and the Republican party will quietly foot all of his legal bills and set him up with a nice retirement. Sheesh. I thought you anti-Bush guys were fully up on all of this stuff.

[Shady]

Oh yeah...Rove. Nothing is beneath him. It seems he will walk away from this with Scooter taking the fall. The only thing we know for sure is that Rove declared "Wilson's wife is fair game". Tantamount to 'giving the green light' to expose a CIA operative, an illegal act. It must be nice to have friends in high places, that have the power to say "We decided not to charge him".

Sooter Libby isn't "taking the fall" for anything. He's charged with lying under oath, not for "outing a CIA operative". No one has been charged with "outing a CIA operative". You need to better understand the American laws related to that type of crime, because you're way off base. But it all comes down to the Dems and their human shields as policy advocates. It was absolutely legitimate to expose Wilson as a liar. The VP didn't send him to Niger as he liked to imply, it was his wife. If he was so worried about her privacy, maybe he shouldn't have submitted an Op-Ed to the New York Times. You can't enter the political arena and not expect people to call you on your lies and false statements. No more human shields in politics! Ann Coulter is right!

Some of Wilson's Lies:

Former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, dispatched by the CIA in February 2002 to investigate reports that Iraq sought to reconstitute its nuclear weapons program with uranium from Africa, was specifically recommended for the mission by his wife, a CIA employee, contrary to what he has said publicly.

The panel found that Wilson's report, rather than debunking intelligence about purported uranium sales to Iraq, as he has said, bolstered the case for most intelligence analysts. And contrary to Wilson's assertions and even the government's previous statements, the CIA did not tell the White House it had qualms about the reliability of the Africa intelligence that made its way into 16 fateful words in President Bush's January 2003 State of the Union address

The report also said Wilson provided misleading information to The Washington Post last June. He said then that he concluded the Niger intelligence was based on documents that had clearly been forged because "the dates were wrong and the names were wrong."

"Committee staff asked how the former ambassador could have come to the conclusion that the 'dates were wrong and the names were wrong' when he had never seen the CIA reports and had no knowledge of what names and dates were in the reports," the Senate panel said. Wilson told the panel he may have been confused and may have "misspoken" to reporters

You cannot lie like that and not expect to be called on it. And it's especially dangerous when your wife is a CIA operative. What was he thinking?

[Oddman]

Oh yeah...Rove. Nothing is beneath him. It seems he will walk away from this with Scooter taking the fall. The only thing we know for sure is that Rove declared "Wilson's wife is fair game". Tantamount to 'giving the green light' to expose a CIA operative, an illegal act. It must be nice to have friends in high places, that have the power to say "We decided not to charge him".

Sooter Libby isn't "taking the fall" for anything. He's charged with lying under oath, not for "outing a CIA operative". No one has been charged with "outing a CIA operative". You need to better understand the American laws related to that type of crime, because you're way off base. But it all comes down to the Dems and their human shields as policy advocates. It was absolutely legitimate to expose Wilson as a liar. The VP didn't send him to Niger as he liked to imply, it was his wife. If he was so worried about her privacy, maybe he shouldn't have submitted an Op-Ed to the New York Times. You can't enter the political arena and not expect people to call you on your lies and false statements. No more human shields in politics! Ann Coulter is right!

Some of Wilson's Lies:

Former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, dispatched by the CIA in February 2002 to investigate reports that Iraq sought to reconstitute its nuclear weapons program with uranium from Africa, was specifically recommended for the mission by his wife, a CIA employee, contrary to what he has said publicly.

The panel found that Wilson's report, rather than debunking intelligence about purported uranium sales to Iraq, as he has said, bolstered the case for most intelligence analysts. And contrary to Wilson's assertions and even the government's previous statements, the CIA did not tell the White House it had qualms about the reliability of the Africa intelligence that made its way into 16 fateful words in President Bush's January 2003 State of the Union address

The report also said Wilson provided misleading information to The Washington Post last June. He said then that he concluded the Niger intelligence was based on documents that had clearly been forged because "the dates were wrong and the names were wrong."

"Committee staff asked how the former ambassador could have come to the conclusion that the 'dates were wrong and the names were wrong' when he had never seen the CIA reports and had no knowledge of what names and dates were in the reports," the Senate panel said. Wilson told the panel he may have been confused and may have "misspoken" to reporters

You cannot lie like that and not expect to be called on it. And it's especially dangerous when your wife is a CIA operative. What was he thinking?

He was probably thinking "Gee, if Bush and Cheaney and Wolfy and Condi and Rummy can lie through their teeth about a plethora of subjects, all for the purpose of going to war, then surely I can tell half truths about a piece of paper and get away with it."

Alas, he is not as skilled or connected as the mafia in the White House.

[BubberMiley]

The worst lies of all were Bush saying that his administration would be held to something higher than a legal standard, and that whoever was responsible for leaking her name would be fired.

And Scott McLellan saying that Rove and Libby were not in any way involved.

Any pathetic swift-boating of Wilson won't change that.

[BHS]

Any pathetic swift-boating of Wilson won't change that.

You're funny, using the Swift Boat Veterans as a metaphor for railroading (which, I know, is itself a metaphor) political opponents. Except that the Swifties were responding to John Kerry's implication, by using Democrat-voting veterans as a backdrop, that his version of the events surrounding his service in Vietnam was unassailable and that he had the full support of the men he served with. Which he did not. Coming forward and publicly stating that you refuse to sit silently by while a politician uses you like that is hardly railroading, is it? It's more like dissent. Which the Dems claim to consider the ne plus ultra of patriotism, when it goes in their favour or against their opponents.

[LonJowett]

Except he didn't actually serve with any of those particular Swiftboat Veterans, but the ones he did serve with backed up his story.

But that's another election, another time...

[BubberMiley]

No one has been charged with "outing a CIA operative".

Still, a CIA agent was illegally outed. That's why there's an investiation.

It was absolutely legitimate to expose Wilson as a liar. The VP didn't send him to Niger as he liked to imply, it was his wife.

A out-and-out lie. What are your sources?

If he was so worried about her privacy, maybe he shouldn't have submitted an Op-Ed to the New York Times.

What? He should have expected the administration would compromise national security for political spite?

You can't enter the political arena and not expect people to call you on your lies and false statements.

Then why do you make them?

And it's especially dangerous when your wife is a CIA operative..

Especially if the administration will stoop to any level to get what they want politically.