The Liberals' phony EV plan

[I am Groot]

Much like their phony trade diversification plan, this one runs up against some pretty bald and obviously unworkable numbers.

With great fanfare, Carnival Carney unveiled his new EV plan, which is basically Justin Trudeau's EV plan with another name. Instead of making the manufacturers sell mostly EVs he plans to increase the tailpipe emissions requirements to the point they will still basically not have any choice but to sell mostly EVs. Let the market decide? Not a chance! Big government knows what's good for you!

The plan is for 75% of vehicles sold to be EVs within ten years (from 15% today), and 90% five years later.

Ok. Where's the power for that going to come from?

Canadians pioneered much of the technology needed to pull electricity from rivers or uranium, including the CANDU nuclear reactor and high-voltage transmission lines. Whole global industries — most notably the energy-intensive aluminum sector — were dominated by Canada for no other reason than that we had the excess power to run them.Article content

Everywhere from Quebec to B.C., Canada’s muscular electricity sector was a point of national pride. In the 1960s, the Quebec Liberal Party printed posters of a clenched fist holding bolts of lightning as a symbol of the province’s hydroelectricity sector.Article content

But now, at the precise moment that electricity is becoming one of the world’s most consequential commodities, Canada is barely able to keep its own lights on. 

Canada, virtually alone among developed countries, has been in decline on this metric for much of the last 30 years, with the indicator taking a noticeable dive in just the last decade.In 1995, the average Canadian lived in a country where their personal share of national electrical generation was 18,937 kilowatt-hours (kWh). As of the last count in 2024, it’s now at 16,023 kWh.

 

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/first-reading-how-canada-squandered-its-most-valuable-national-asset

For the technically challenged

[suds]

25 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Ok. Where's the power for that going to come from?

To my surprise, Canada is actually a net importer of electricity. Here's how the plan is likely being set up to unfold....first they'll force all of us into buying EV's (which I don't really have a problem with), but then they'll ration electricity usage so it won't really make any sense to buy one. They're also discussing about doubling the power grid and making it net zero by 2050. Hah! I'll believe it when I see it.

[TreeBeard]

Are you people still on about this?   When they invented lightbulbs and electric appliances, didn’t they upgrade the electrical grid at the same time?  
 

Did we lose the ability to upgrade in the last century or so?   Were people just smarter then?

Edited February 9 by TreeBeard

[herbie]

Shallow opinions depending on the most pessimistic negative predictions.

A: we aren't, can't and wont increase electrical production. Even as we are, and as data centers and crypto mining operations are growing and gobbling more power than madium size cities and tens of thousands of EVs each.

B: the continued nonsense you are being forced into anything. Especially now when there is no threat of stopping ICE vehicles entirely

C- that there is something wrong with reducing tailpipe emissions.

D- that in 2035-2040 you will still be a dedicated blockhead opposing EVs without reason and trying to deny others the ability to switch.

If you're still a total troglodyte and failed to notice the demand these days is for HYBRID vehicles that are partially electrified. They already reduce emissions as they improve mileage. Plugin hybrids are even better at that and they are included.

The rebates only apply to models made in Canada or by favoured trad partners. They only apply to models under $50K so there's no more handouts for those wealthy enough to buy a Cadillac EV. In that, the plan is already better than the previous one.

Granted, there's gonna be massive dealer dodges, twists and hoops to screw you out of every penny they can gouge and they'll laugh at you blaming the govt all the way.to the bank.

And in the end, you'll still be able to buy a Dodge Charger (if Dodge is still around) that smokes, pollutes and breaks eardrums like the whole 700 odd people in Canada did so last year. You can count yourself among the old farts I run into today who'll stick out their chest, thump it, and declare proudly that "I've never used one of them computers"
Just keep up the BS that delivering at most 40% of your energy content to the road is better than 90%

 

[TreeBeard]

2 hours ago, suds said:

To my surprise, Canada is actually a net importer of electricity. Here's how the plan is likely being set up to unfold....first they'll force all of us into buying EV's (which I don't really have a problem with), but then they'll ration electricity usage so it won't really make any sense to buy one. They're also discussing about doubling the power grid and making it net zero by 2050. Hah! I'll believe it when I see it.

No, Canada is an exporter of electricity. 
 

• Canada is typically a net exporter of electricity.^Footnote 2 In 2023, net exports were 27.6 TWh, a 46% decrease from 51.3 TWh in 2022, mainly due to abnormally dry weather in 2023.^Footnote 3 All electricity trade is with the U.S. and mostly occurs from the provinces of Quebec, Ontario, Manitoba, and B.C.        https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles-canada.html

[Legato]

2 minutes ago, herbie said:

Shallow opinions depending on the most pessimistic negative predictions.

A: we aren't, can't and wont increase electrical production. Even as we are, and as data centers and crypto mining operations are growing and gobbling more power than madium size cities and tens of thousands of EVs each.

B: the continued nonsense you are being forced into anything. Especially now when there is no threat of stopping ICE vehicles entirely

C- that there is something wrong with reducing tailpipe emissions.

D- that in 2035-2040 you will still be a dedicated blockhead opposing EVs without reason and trying to deny others the ability to switch.

If you're still a total troglodyte and failed to notice the demand these days is for HYBRID vehicles that are partially electrified. They already reduce emissions as they improve mileage. Plugin hybrids are even better at that and they are included.

The rebates only apply to models made in Canada or by favoured trad partners. They only apply to models under $50K so there's no more handouts for those wealthy enough to buy a Cadillac EV. In that, the plan is already better than the previous one.

Granted, there's gonna be massive dealer dodges, twists and hoops to screw you out of every penny they can gouge and they'll laugh at you blaming the govt all the way.to the bank.

And in the end, you'll still be able to buy a Dodge Charger (if Dodge is still around) that smokes, pollutes and breaks eardrums like the whole 700 odd people in Canada did so last year. You can count yourself among the old farts I run into today who'll stick out their chest, thump it, and declare proudly that "I've never used one of them computers"
Just keep up the BS that delivering at most 40% of your energy content to the road is better than 90%

 

 

7 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

No, Canada is an exporter of electricity. 
 

 

• Canada is typically a net exporter of electricity.^Footnote 2 In 2023, net exports were 27.6 TWh, a 46% decrease from 51.3 TWh in 2022, mainly due to abnormally dry weather in 2023.^Footnote 3 All electricity trade is with the U.S. and mostly occurs from the provinces of Quebec, Ontario, Manitoba, and B.C.        https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles-canada.html

Drought conditions in several regions of Canada in 2025 continued to impact electricity generation and electricity trade in October.

Total electricity generation in Canada decreased 2.1% year over year to 46.2 million megawatt-hours (MWh) in October. The decline was mainly due to hydroelectric generation, which fell 6.2% year over year to 23.4 million MWh, amid prolonged dry conditions.

Exports of electricity to the United States fell 29.2% year over year to 1.9 million MWh in October, the lowest export level since April 2024. Manitoba, historically a significant exporter, was the largest contributor to the decline. October 2025 marked the fifth month in which Canada has been a net importer of electricity since this series was redesigned in 2016; electricity imports also exceeded exports in February, March and April 2024, as well as in March 2025.

To compensate for lower levels of domestic generation, imports of electricity jumped 54.8% year over year to 2.2 million MWh in October, largely driven by Manitoba and Quebec. Both provinces rely heavily on hydroelectricity generation and have faced low water levels throughout 2025.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/260109/dq260109d-eng.htm

 

[suds]

1 hour ago, TreeBeard said:

No, Canada is an exporter of electricity. 
 

 

• Canada is typically a net exporter of electricity.^Footnote 2 In 2023, net exports were 27.6 TWh, a 46% decrease from 51.3 TWh in 2022, mainly due to abnormally dry weather in 2023.^Footnote 3 All electricity trade is with the U.S. and mostly occurs from the provinces of Quebec, Ontario, Manitoba, and B.C.        https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles-canada.html

My bad. Yes, Canada is a net exporter of electricity with the U.S.  Then in 2024 and 2025 something changed where Canada was only a net exporter for 8 months of both years and a net importer for the other 4 months of both years. I realize it doesn't change the fact that Canada was indeed a net exporter of electricity for both 2024 and 2025, only that something changed. Whether these changes are permanent, temporary, or a sign of things to come, I really don't know.

https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-commodities/electricity/statistics/electricity-trade-summary/index.html#a1

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, suds said:

I realize it doesn't change the fact that Canada was indeed a net exporter of electricity for both 2024 and 2025, only that something changed.

Things are changing - changed sounds more like a one off.

4 minutes ago, suds said:

Whether these changes are permanent, temporary, or a sign of things to come, I really don't know.

The clue is probably in the abnormality of the dry weather - that abnormalities are becoming more normal is the sign of things to come.  We're seeing more abnormal weather in other telling ares too that lead to increases in the price of food.

I think its safe to say the state of abnormality is becoming less temporary and more permanent. So the question is what's causing an increase in abnormalities and is that a sign that there's more to come?

[suds]

1 hour ago, Legato said:

 

Drought conditions in several regions of Canada in 2025 continued to impact electricity generation and electricity trade in October.

Total electricity generation in Canada decreased 2.1% year over year to 46.2 million megawatt-hours (MWh) in October. The decline was mainly due to hydroelectric generation, which fell 6.2% year over year to 23.4 million MWh, amid prolonged dry conditions.

Exports of electricity to the United States fell 29.2% year over year to 1.9 million MWh in October, the lowest export level since April 2024. Manitoba, historically a significant exporter, was the largest contributor to the decline. October 2025 marked the fifth month in which Canada has been a net importer of electricity since this series was redesigned in 2016; electricity imports also exceeded exports in February, March and April 2024, as well as in March 2025.

To compensate for lower levels of domestic generation, imports of electricity jumped 54.8% year over year to 2.2 million MWh in October, largely driven by Manitoba and Quebec. Both provinces rely heavily on hydroelectricity generation and have faced low water levels throughout 2025.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/260109/dq260109d-eng.htm

 

Interesting. Even hydro electric can have its ups and downs. I'm wondering that if the government plans on doubling its net zero power generation by 2050, how much of that would have to be baseload? Nuclear is more reliable, but then hydro electric is safer. But then again you can't stick a hydro electric generating plant just any old place and then there's the drought thing. I wish I would have read this before replying to Treebeard's post.

[suds]

2 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Are you people still on about this?   When they invented lightbulbs and electric appliances, didn’t they upgrade the electrical grid at the same time?  
 

Did we lose the ability to upgrade in the last century or so?   Were people just smarter then?

It's not the ability but the will to do great things. It's like were stuck on mediocrity.  What we need in this country is no more Trudeau's but an FDR. Is Carney that man? I don't know, and talk is cheap. This is a huge undertaking and the costs are only going to go way higher as the price of materials grows exponentially with the expected supply and demand. There's no excuse to fu*k around with this. The time is now. Now you know how I feel.