Terrorists in Canada? You bet.

[Nocrap]

I challenge the Prime Minister and Mr. Solberg to pass legislation that would cause the end of this foolishness.

Couldn't agree more.

And for the post below, A Canadian is someone who's paid taxed for atleast 15 years or is born on Canadian soil.

People who target innocent lives in the name of Allah and overseas politics are NOT Canadian. I don't care what their peice of paper says. It's this that we must change to make our society strong again.

Of couruse we don't have the leadership that will do this.. it would be policitcal suicide.

I guess maybe we DO have to have a dissaster happen for people like you to finally admit that we are under attack and there is a crisis happening to Canada. (or maybe you just have to come here and see the 1000's here ghettoizing and segregated first hand).

Always keep in mind - this country is private, it's a privelage to be here, and NOT a right for anyone to come as they please.

This is our country.

'Their' country if you asked them is 'Pakistan' 'Jamaica' 'Tamilnadu' 'Bangledesh' 'Samolia'.

People who target innocent lives in the name of Allah and overseas politics are NOT Canadian. I don't care what their peice of paper says. It's this that we must change to make our society strong again.

What about people who take innocent lives in the name of Jesus, God or George Bush?

North America has been a haven for immigrants for centuries and Canada is indeed a nation of immigrants. Every Canadian should be judged on their own merit and not their country of origin or their ancestors' country of origin.

These young men acted out of desperation over their country's decision to continue the violent assaults on inncocent civilians and calling it a war against terror. They also acted out of anger over being blamed for the acts of a few militant muslims post 911.

We need to put this into perspective.

[Argus]

Forty percent of British Muslims told a survey they wanted Sharia law in the UK.

I'm not buying this "only a tiny percentage of Muslims are Islamists" nonsense.

Even those Islamists who don't want to blow things up right now want to send adulterous women to prison, along with homosexuals and sexual deviants. I don't believe their ideas for a properly run society can possibly be reconciled with mine. Therefore, I want no more of them in Canada.

Perhaps you haven't met enough muslims? I know many muslims who are very kind and would never hurt anyone.

Don't be silly. You have no idea whether someone would or wouldn't hurt anyone.

While their religious views may differ from mine (actually just about everyone's religious views differ from mine), they are non-judgemental and none have tried to force their beliefs upon me or society in general. Don't they deserve to stay in this country they call home?

You really don't know what their views are, of religion, of society in general, of the way we ought to live our lives. Most of those I have seen and talked to, and most people who know something about Muslims would disagree with you.

That's not to say that, yes, most Muslims, like any other community, are relatively harmless in terms of their likelihood of commiting violence against others, at least in this society. That does not mean their views of life are the same as mine or Canada's. It does not mean that, if given the opportunity to vote on the matter, they wouldn't agree that strippers should be shot, homosexuals burned at the stake, and women forbidden from wearing any skirt which doesn't cover their ankles.

[Argus]

I didn't suggest that Canada halt immigration. There are many people from many nations and backgrounds that would provide great bennifits to our country. My point was that Muslims would by default, be considered the least desirable population to allow at this point in time, for example: Being a Natzi didn't mean that you gassed Jews, but givin that your allignment was with those that kill Canadians, puts you at the botttom of the list.

I don't have the exact statistics but I would be willing to bet money that the majority of murders in Canada are commited by caucasians.

You would probably lose. However, caucasions make up the great majority of the population. And no one with any credibility has ever suggested they are responsible for more violence per person than other races. On the other hand, people have said that about other groups, particularly Jamaicans, Vietnamese, and Natives. In the US, where statistics are kept, Blacks are responsible for half of violent crime. We're not sure about whites because they are lumped in with Hispanics in the same group. Most authorities agree Hispanics commit a very disproportionate amount of crime.

In Nordic countries, there have been strong suggestions backed up by statistics, that Muslims are responsible for a vastly disproportionate amount of sex crimes. Primarily commited against local (ie, white) women who the Muslims consider are whores anyway.

[Nocrap]

I can imagine a new field of study called "Canadian Social Engineering, Racial Profiling and Bigotry 101" that should be taught in our public schools.

I can imagine a new field of study called "Canadian Social Engineering, Racial Profiling and Bigotry 101" that should be taught in our public schools.

Good Heavens, don't suggest that to our PM. He will probably mandate it, though I believe most of his caucus already aced such a course.

However, this is not the time to start blaming particular ethnic groups. This was a planned criminal act and should be viewed as such. I heard one of the lawyers for the accused speak of the attitude of the public and indeed the government with regard to all Muslim youths. Apparently, they are now being questioned about their internet activities and political views.

She asked whether when Mark Levine went on his rampage, if all ex soldiers from Quebec were profiled. Or when Paul Berardo was found quilty of horrendous sexual crimes, were all white male accountants potential suspects.

Tim McVeigh acted out of protest to his government's gun control laws. Did the US then round up all young white men with brush cuts?

This was a criminal act and had no links to any Terrorists groups other than a desire to help rid the Middle East of Invaders. It was said that when Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan got word of the arrests they became more dedicated to the 'mission'. Sadly it's the mission that prompted the planned criminal actions of 17 young Canadian men.

[Argus]

What about people who take innocent lives in the name of Jesus, God or George Bush?

There are none in this country that I'm aware of.

North America has been a haven for immigrants for centuries and Canada is indeed a nation of immigrants. Every Canadian should be judged on their own merit and not their country of origin or their ancestors' country of origin.

But we're not judging Canadians, we're judging potential Canadians.

These young men acted out of desperation over their country's decision to continue the violent assaults on inncocent civilians and calling it a war against terror. They also acted out of anger over being blamed for the acts of a few militant muslims post 911.

We need to put this into perspective.

"I hate it that you kill innocent lives! So I'm--- I'm going to kill innocent lives! As many as I can!"

This is total bullshit. These men identify with the Muslim diaspora and not Canada. That is why they want to attack us. Because they don't consider themselves to be Canadians, but Muslims. And radical Islamist muslims at that.

And what people are saying is that we need to let in fewer of this type of person. Because they'll never beome real Canadians. They'll always be semi-hostile foreigners living resentfully in our midst.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Argus,

This is total bullshit. These men identify with the Muslim diaspora and not Canada. That is why they want to attack us. Because they don't consider themselves to be Canadians, but Muslims. And radical Islamist muslims at that.

And what people are saying is that we need to let in fewer of this type of person. Because they'll never beome real Canadians. They'll always be semi-hostile foreigners living resentfully in our midst.

How would it be possible to let in 'fewer of this type of person' (really, it should be none at all of this type of person) when there is no way to screen what is in 'their hearts and minds'?

[wellandboy]

These young men acted out of desperation over their country's decision to continue the violent assaults on inncocent civilians and calling it a war against terror. They also acted out of anger over being blamed for the acts of a few militant muslims post 911.

This was a criminal act and had no links to any Terrorists groups other than a desire to help rid the Middle East of Invaders. It was said that when Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan got word of the arrests they became more dedicated to the 'mission'. Sadly it's the mission that prompted the planned criminal actions of 17 young Canadian men.

I've been away from this forum for a while but its good to know the apologists and appeasers are still convinced this threat is some how our fault. First we don't know the full extent of the links to foreign Islamic terrorist groups, however we can say for certain the inspiration for these Canadian terrorists is clearly from foreign Islamic groups. This is Canada and we have a process for dealing with political change as part of the democratic process. The so-called anger of these young men should inspire them to change perceptions of Muslims not embrace terrorism as a means to change perceptions. What a niave and absurd argument. Responsible Muslims are doing just that; they must be encouraged and applauded for their efforts.

What's truly sad is Canadians who believe our mission in Afghanistan to create a stable democracy in that sad and tragic country is justification for militant action here.

[scribblet]

name='Nocrap' date='Jun 9 2006, 04:05 AM' post='116829']

These young men acted out of desperation over their country's decision to continue the violent assaults on inncocent civilians and calling it a war against terror. They also acted out of anger over being blamed for the acts of a few militant muslims post 911.

We need to put this into perspective.

We certainly do, acting in desparation my foot.

I personally don’t care one iota what their religion is or how they feel about our society, when they or anyone plans mass murder they are crossing the line big time; they do not deserve my empthay or sympathy. Neither should I be willing to share my habitat with these homicidal maniacs.

The idea that because they might be unemployed, under-employed, frustrated unloved or whatever does not give them the right to engage in such heinous activities.

These barbarians both within and without the gates should be dealt with firmly and absolutely; if they refuse to accept our social standards and values and engage in lawlessness they should be excluded from our society, by deportation or jail.

Canadians should not be willing to be victims, these scum have no reason to prey on us and neither should we accept any excuses offered by them or their advocates. If they feel that strongly about Canada fighting for Afghani freedom and democracy they can leave Canada for good and live in Afghanistan. Maybe our soldiers will get lucky and run into them there !

[betsy]

These young men acted out of desperation over their country's decision to continue the violent assaults on inncocent civilians and calling it a war against terror. They also acted out of anger over being blamed for the acts of a few militant muslims post 911.

I can't believe you just said that!

You have justified these acts by reason of.... perceived desperation.

Let's be brutally frank here: whose side are you really on?

[gc1765]

Don't be silly. You have no idea whether someone would or wouldn't hurt anyone.

While I can not say for certain whether someone would harm someone else, I can say that it is unlikely. I have been friends with some of these people for years now and they certainly have never harmed me (even though I'm not muslim) and I have no reason to believe that they would even consider harming anyone else.

You really don't know what their views are, of religion, of society in general, of the way we ought to live our lives. Most of those I have seen and talked to, and most people who know something about Muslims would disagree with you.

Thanks but I know enough about Islam to know what their religious views are.

That's not to say that, yes, most Muslims, like any other community, are relatively harmless in terms of their likelihood of commiting violence against others, at least in this society. That does not mean their views of life are the same as mine or Canada's. It does not mean that, if given the opportunity to vote on the matter, they wouldn't agree that strippers should be shot, homosexuals burned at the stake, and women forbidden from wearing any skirt which doesn't cover their ankles.

I have never met a muslim that has said any of those things (though I'm not denying that some muslims do). Not all muslims are so conservative.

You would probably lose. However, caucasions make up the great majority of the population. And no one with any credibility has ever suggested they are responsible for more violence per person than other races. On the other hand, people have said that about other groups, particularly Jamaicans, Vietnamese, and Natives. In the US, where statistics are kept, Blacks are responsible for half of violent crime. We're not sure about whites because they are lumped in with Hispanics in the same group. Most authorities agree Hispanics commit a very disproportionate amount of crime.

Perhaps per capita, though that's not what I said in my original post. The point I was trying to make is that all races and all religions are guilty of violent crimes, so it would be dangerous to stereotype muslims as the only evil in this country, when it is well known that whites, blacks, hispanics etc all commit violent crimes.

What about people who take innocent lives in the name of Jesus, God or George Bush?

There are none in this country that I'm aware of.

How about people who take innocent lives in the name of Oil? There's lots of them in the U.S.

This is total bullshit. These men identify with the Muslim diaspora and not Canada. That is why they want to attack us. Because they don't consider themselves to be Canadians, but Muslims. And radical Islamist muslims at that.

And what people are saying is that we need to let in fewer of this type of person. Because they'll never beome real Canadians. They'll always be semi-hostile foreigners living resentfully in our midst.

You have admitted that not all muslims are terrorists, but you can't admit that not all muslims are radical islamists who hate Canada. I still believe that is the minority. I agree that anyone who 'hates' Canada so much should not live here, but like I said I have met many muslims (some of them recent immigrants) who are proud to call themselves Canadian.

[betsy]

but like I said I have met many muslims (some of them recent immigrants) who are proud to call themselves Canadian.

So find out when and where they'll have the big rallies protesting and denouncing terrorist acts and show massive support to Canada....perhaps other Canadians will join. I will.

This way, no one can mis-interpret their quick reaction to protest and rally (like regarding those cartoons), as support for radical Islam and terrorism.

[gc1765]

Well, I agree that not all Muslims are terrorist...nor do they all support terrorism. But they better start PUBLICLY voicing their disapproval of terrorism and begin speaking LOUDLY against the terrorists...just so to show that they are not silent supporters by virtue of sharing the same Islamic faith.

This is the time to hold protests and rallies DENOUNCING terrorism and showing support for Canada and other parts of the world!

So find out when and where they'll have the big rallies protesting and denouncing terrorist acts and show massive support to Canada....perhaps other Canadians will join. I will.

This way, no one can mis-interpret their quick reaction to protest and rally (like regarding those cartoons), as support for radical Islam and terrorism.

Dick Cheney, George Bush and (as far as I know) Donald Rumsfeld are all Christians who waged a war in Iraq that has killed over a hundred thousand people. Therefore all Christians must publicly voice their disapprval of the war and hold big anti-war rallies, according to your logic.

[killjoy]

Therefore all Christians must publicly voice their disapprval of the war and hold big anti-war rallies, according to your logic.

They don't?

.

[gc1765]

Therefore all Christians must publicly voice their disapprval of the war and hold big anti-war rallies, according to your logic.

They don't?

Some do. Not all do though.

[Argus]

I can imagine a new field of study called "Canadian Social Engineering, Racial Profiling and Bigotry 101" that should be taught in our public schools.

I can imagine a new field of study called "Canadian Social Engineering, Racial Profiling and Bigotry 101" that should be taught in our public schools.

Good Heavens, don't suggest that to our PM. He will probably mandate it, though I believe most of his caucus already aced such a course.

Typical liberal bigotry.

However, this is not the time to start blaming particular ethnic groups.

Why not? I'd think this was precisely the time to blame a particular ethnic group.

Tim McVeigh acted out of protest to his government's gun control laws. Did the US then round up all young white men with brush cuts?

You're joking, right? After Tim McVeigh every group of cub scouts that went out into the woods to practice with their sling shots had the FBI looking over their shoulders.

[betsy]

So find out when and where they'll have the big rallies protesting and denouncing terrorist acts and show massive support to Canada....perhaps other Canadians will join. I will.

This way, no one can mis-interpret their quick reaction to protest and rally (like regarding those cartoons), as support for radical Islam and terrorism.

Dick Cheney, George Bush and (as far as I know) Donald Rumsfeld are all Christians who waged a war in Iraq that has killed over a hundred thousand people. Therefore all Christians must publicly voice their disapprval of the war and hold big anti-war rallies, according to your logic.

No. My logic is Muslims who had CHOSEN to come VOLUNTARILY to LIVE IN CANADA, and HAD CHOSEN TO BECOME CANADIANS MUST PUBLICLY SHOW THEIR SUPPORT for this country that had welcomed and given them a haven and a home! Furthermore, it is the obligation and the duty of every citizens of a country to show and give their support to their country. ESPECIALLY in times of need!

And most ESPECIALLY when public perceptions are of tantamount importance! It is more to their own benefit, actually.

Distrust and suspicions will only go on.....unless the Muslim Community really show that they are with the rest of Canada. Public denounciation and protest against terrorism is one major step in showing this.

[Riverwind]

Distrust and suspicions will only go on.....unless the Muslim Community really show that they are with the rest of Canada. Public denounciation and protest against terrorism is one major step in showing this.

Besty, why don't you start demanding that the Christian community denounce the homegrown Christian terrorists? (see http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....0entry116930)

[Charles Anthony]

No. My logic is Muslims who had CHOSEN to come VOLUNTARILY to LIVE IN CANADA, and HAD CHOSEN TO BECOME CANADIANS MUST

Stop right there.

Nobody in this country MUST do anything other than obey the law. Period.

Stop the bigotted blame game. Nobody has to speak for anybody else's actions but their own. If the bigotry of other Canadians singles out Muslims and blames them for the actions of other Muslims, then it is the bigots who should start shaping up.

What about the Muslims in Canada who mind their own business???? and live peacefully? Why paint everybody with the same brush?

Your logic is dangerous. Sorry.

[betsy]

Charles and Riverwind,

Care to read my post again? You're reacting to my statement in auto-mode without seeing what I'm trying to say.

I said: FREEZE immigration for Muslims til the immigration officials and law enforcers can do their jobs. I should've added that apparently (according to discussions on MDuffy), with the former government of 13 years dramatically increasing the quota for immigration, plus the refugees that came in droves....immigration department was swamped, thus practically no proper screening was done.

And I said, and will repeat again.... showing LOUD and Highly VISIBLE rallies and protests....this time, in support of Canada...is to the benefit of the Muslim community.

Why???

Well, for one....the Muslim community is worried of retaliation, lumping-together and increasing anti-Muslim sentiments among Canadians, and it is not a far-fetched worry.

Second, even before this terror arrest, it had already been widely suspected that certain imams were and are still preaching hatred and support for violence to infidels.

Third, even before this terror arrest, we already know we've got terrorists embedded among the Muslim community.

Fourth, the quick reaction to rally and protest (peaceful it may've been), but a show of support and kinmanship to the other protests worldwide nevertheless, and an attempt to stifle certain rights in Canada...can only have resulted in more concern for other citizens of this country. Where are those same people who organized and joined those rallies?

Right, the muslims who've been minding their own business and had never participated in previous protests...why should they rally now?

If you think voicing out the need to freeze immigration and urge the Muslim community to show a solidarity with the rest of Canada is an unfairness and bigotted reaction to all Muslims, then so be it.

Nobody had ever mentioned a possible dire consequence if things do escalate, and suspicions and fear prevail. I would like to emphasize that I'm not bringing it out of bigotry, but simply as one who tends to look farther down the road and speculate on other possible dire scenarios.

Think Japanese-Canadians during World War 2.

[scribblet]

There's a good article here from Jona G.

I tend to agree with a moratorium on immigration until Canada has more, and better trained staff to cope with the influx of refugees. We also need to take another hard look at immigration policies in general, particularly the family reunification program.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commen...omment-opinions

Jonah Goldberg: The price of 'nice' for Canada

Our northern neighbor thinks being all multicultural and sucking up to the United Nations will keep the terrorists away. Think again.

June 8, 2006

-snip-

Canada is arguably the most deluded industrialized nation in the world. Because elite Canadians think the U.S. is the font of the world's problems, they think being different than the U.S. and sucking up to the United Nations will buy them grace on the cheap. They claim to be "a nation of peacekeepers," but they rank 50th among U.N. peacekeeper nations in the number of troops sent. They've bravely contributed to the war in Afghanistan, where 2,300 troops still serve, but refused to join the effort in Iraq, believing that jihadists would honor such fine distinctions. That was awfully nice of them. Too bad nice has nothing to do with it.

The presence of a profoundly evil, homegrown terror cell in Canada has understandably provoked a lot of soul-searching to our north. As one Canadian editorial put it: "We are Canada, peacekeepers to the world, everybody's nice guy. Who would want to harm us, and why?" Or as Audrey Macklin, a University of Toronto law professor, confessed to the L.A. Times, Canadians "picture themselves as being thought of as nicer than the United States." Why on earth would terrorists want to hurt a "nice" country? Well, for starters, nice isn't all it's cracked up to be. The frog who carried the scorpion on his back in Aesop's fable was nice. It didn't make the scorpion's sting any less poisonous.

Indeed, there's good reason to believe that niceness is part of the problem, not the solution. Many Canadians (and Americans and Europeans) cling to a deep-seated belief that more multiculturalism, more interfaith dialogue, more "understanding," more Western apologies, more acceptance of Sharia, more "niceness" will fix the problem.

-snip-

In Canada, the retreat into denial was instantaneous. At the news conference announcing the arrests, officials said the alleged plotters came from "a variety of backgrounds" and the "broad strata" of Canadian society because "some are students, some are employed, some are unemployed." They might as well have said the accused plotters were diverse because they all liked different ice cream. The relevant fact was that they were all Muslim and nearly all attended a single radical mosque. But it would be rude to mention that.

In a meeting with Muslim leaders the day after the news conference, Toronto's chief of police reportedly boasted that the government never mentioned the alleged terrorists' religion. Well, isn't that sweet. I'm sure the next time Islamists set out to chop off lawmakers' heads or murder the staff of the Canadian Broadcasting Co., they'll keep in mind how nice you were about all this.

[gc1765]

No. My logic is Muslims who had CHOSEN to come VOLUNTARILY to LIVE IN CANADA, and HAD CHOSEN TO BECOME CANADIANS MUST PUBLICLY SHOW THEIR SUPPORT for this country that had welcomed and given them a haven and a home! Furthermore, it is the obligation and the duty of every citizens of a country to show and give their support to their country. ESPECIALLY in times of need!

So we should basically all pledge allegiance to the flag of Canada, as they do in the U.S.? Or just muslims should have to do that? Or just immigrants?

[Argus]

No. My logic is Muslims who had CHOSEN to come VOLUNTARILY to LIVE IN CANADA, and HAD CHOSEN TO BECOME CANADIANS MUST PUBLICLY SHOW THEIR SUPPORT for this country that had welcomed and given them a haven and a home! Furthermore, it is the obligation and the duty of every citizens of a country to show and give their support to their country. ESPECIALLY in times of need!

So we should basically all pledge allegiance to the flag of Canada, as they do in the U.S.? Or just muslims should have to do that? Or just immigrants?

I think it should be incumbent upon immigrants to recognize that this is the land and society they have chosen to make their homes in, have chosen to raise their children in, and where their descendants will be born and raised. And in light of that they should seek to assimilate without destroying who they are, seek to raise their children at least with the respect due the nation which they have adopted, and not with contempt for it and its people and institutions and cultural values. And if they can't do that they should not come, and if here already they should be encouraged to return from whence they came.

If you teach your children that local women are whores who are unfit for them to the degree they must return "home" for a proper bride, and that the local men are worthless and godless so that they must again return "home" for a husband, then you are teaching your children contempt for Canada and Canadians, and have no business calling yourself a Canadian.

[gc1765]

No. My logic is Muslims who had CHOSEN to come VOLUNTARILY to LIVE IN CANADA, and HAD CHOSEN TO BECOME CANADIANS MUST PUBLICLY SHOW THEIR SUPPORT for this country that had welcomed and given them a haven and a home! Furthermore, it is the obligation and the duty of every citizens of a country to show and give their support to their country. ESPECIALLY in times of need!

So we should basically all pledge allegiance to the flag of Canada, as they do in the U.S.? Or just muslims should have to do that? Or just immigrants?

I think it should be incumbent upon immigrants to recognize that this is the land and society they have chosen to make their homes in, have chosen to raise their children in, and where their descendants will be born and raised. And in light of that they should seek to assimilate without destroying who they are, seek to raise their children at least with the respect due the nation which they have adopted, and not with contempt for it and its people and institutions and cultural values. And if they can't do that they should not come, and if here already they should be encouraged to return from whence they came.

If you teach your children that local women are whores who are unfit for them to the degree they must return "home" for a proper bride, and that the local men are worthless and godless so that they must again return "home" for a husband, then you are teaching your children contempt for Canada and Canadians, and have no business calling yourself a Canadian.

I agree that those who show contempt for Canada and who would do harm against Canadians simply for being Canadians, should not be in this country. I would hope that anyone who hates Canada would not come to this country and it makes no sense to me why they would, but I realize that some do. However I disagree with betsy that all muslims must publicly show their support for this country, especially when we do not apply those same standards to other religous or ethnic groups. Living a productive life and not harming others is enough support for this country that I would expect from anyone. For example, I myself love this country and would never do harm to anyone, especially my own country. However, I don't think I need to prove my support for this country publicly nor does any other Canadian, whether they are born and raised here, immigrants, muslim or non-muslim.

[August1991]

No. My logic is Muslims who had CHOSEN to come VOLUNTARILY to LIVE IN CANADA, and HAD CHOSEN TO BECOME CANADIANS MUST PUBLICLY SHOW THEIR SUPPORT for this country that had welcomed and given them a haven and a home! Furthermore, it is the obligation and the duty of every citizens of a country to show and give their support to their country. ESPECIALLY in times of need!

If you teach your children that local women are whores who are unfit for them to the degree they must return "home" for a proper bride, and that the local men are worthless and godless so that they must again return "home" for a husband, then you are teaching your children contempt for Canada and Canadians, and have no business calling yourself a Canadian.

I agree with gc. What are we going to Argus & Betsy? Send people to re-education camp? How would even know who to send? Argus, are we going to listen in on family conversation? Betsy, we now have Citizenship Courts where people swear an allegiance. Do you really think that if someone swears allegiance to the Maple Leaf that will prevent the person becoming a suicide bomber? Is it so easy to have some change their radical religious beliefs?

These are all knee-jerk reactions and are not credible solutions at all. They would just create large headaches for good people and do nothing to deter bad people.

[betsy]

Betsy, we now have Citizenship Courts where people swear an allegiance. Do you really think that if someone swears allegiance to the Maple Leaf that will prevent the person becoming a suicide bomber? Is it so easy to have some change their radical religious beliefs?

These are all knee-jerk reactions and are not credible solutions at all. They would just create large headaches for good people and do nothing to deter bad people.

You're right there, August, I must say. I do know and believe that a lot of Muslims are innocents and have nothing at all to do with terrorism. It's just sad that they are being used by those who hides among them...and of course, it breeds suspicion and paranoia.

This is like Vietnam in a way...when they did not know who their enemies were. Rubbing elbows during the day, only to get blown up at night by the very guy you thought was a friend/co-worker/etc. Soldiers were easily spooked.

Although I agree with you to a certain extent, qc1675....except for this statement:

"However I disagree with betsy that all muslims must publicly show their support for this country, especially when we do not apply those same standards to other religous or ethnic groups"

Your rationale behind having the same standards on this particular issue do not apply. We are talking about terrorism by Islamic fundamentalists.