Why medical assistance in dying (MAID) or euthanasia is wrong.

[John Stone]

Common sense tells you that the  MAID option is saving any Nation with Universal Health Care, tens of millions $$ ...........more.

Common sense also tells you that Life Insurance premiums would (will) be affected. 

MAID is also likely more class-conscious, those more affluent have the means $$ to seek / afford options to prolong life in a more  dignified and comfort aided manner. 

MAID is ripe for abuse in terms of escalation. 

Standby for the rhetoric promoting it on a more broad scale .................. what(?) .............. it's happening now???

The devil you say! 

[TreeBeard]

On 12/29/2025 at 4:56 AM, John Stone said:

Common sense tells you that the  MAID option is saving any Nation with Universal Health Care, tens of millions $$

So you made up the numbers….  Based on your “common sense”.  Can your “common sense” ever be wrong about something? 

[User]

3 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

So you made up the numbers….  Based on your “common sense”.  Can your “common sense” ever be wrong about something? 

The point is still correct on its face though. Maybe the numbers are not precise, but the concept is sound. 

How much does it cost the government to provide health care a year to someone who is likely to also be the most in need of those services?

Lets ball park it around 9K a person, and that is just splitting up total costs, not even assuming these people are most likely using more than that. 

So, how many dead? Like 16K last year? So, what is 16,000 people times 9,000 a year?

 

[John Stone]

37 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

So you made up the numbers….  Based on your “common sense”.  Can your “common sense” ever be wrong about something? 

Alex Schadenberg is one of the world’s premier opponents of euthanasia and assisted suicide. He is the co-founder and executive director of the Euthanasia Prevention Coalition, founded in 1998 and based in the Canadian Province of Ontario.

 Schadenberg said he has long wondered what role, if any, MAiD’s potential cost savings played in its introduction and rapid expansion in Canada.

“Remember, dead people don’t cost money,” he said. “Dead people don’t need treatment.” / common dogfk, Bucky

Schadenberg said he thinks no one in Canada would be “so crass” as to actually say that they support MAiD because it saves money. “But there is a reality at the same time that it does save a lot of money, and a lot of people know that it saves money,” he said. “Just because they won’t say it, doesn’t mean it’s not true.”

In fact, the federal government’s Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer said in a report made public in October 2020 that its calculations showed that, throughout the country, MAiD would save the health-care system $86.9 million in 2021.

[TreeBeard]

1 hour ago, John Stone said:

In fact, the federal government’s Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer said in a report made public in October 2020 that its calculations showed that, throughout the country, MAiD would save the health-care system $86.9 million in 2021.

Actual numbers!  Un-cited, but let’s assume they’re correct.  
 

That’s a drop in the bucket in terms of health budgets.  It also allows doctors and nurses to treat other ailments when someone can choose death with dignity rather than waste away taking up a hospital bed.  We call that a win-win.  
 

A win for rights of the individual and a win for the system.  

I’ve seen nothing to object to in your analysis of MAID.  

[Zeitgeist]

On 12/28/2025 at 11:40 PM, User said:

"suffer"

Yeah, folks want to pretend this program is about people in chronic pain slowly and agonizingly dying... when in reality the program was expanded and is killing people for more than this now.

When you see someone about to jump off a bridge, you might as stop to help shove them off... 

 

We’ve had morphine and other drugs to deal with severe pain.  MAID is lazy and unethical so-called “healthcare”.  Canada is seen internationally as a cautionary tale for countries considering legalizing assisted suicide.  As so often seems to be the case these days, Canadians are largely unaware of what a bad look this legislation is.  

[User]

8 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Actual numbers!  Un-cited, but let’s assume they’re correct.  
 

That’s a drop in the bucket in terms of health budgets.  It also allows doctors and nurses to treat other ailments when someone can choose death with dignity rather than waste away taking up a hospital bed.  We call that a win-win.  
 

A win for rights of the individual and a win for the system.  

I’ve seen nothing to object to in your analysis of MAID.  

Typical dishonest discussion tactics. 

First, you deny it, demand proof, and deny basic common sense numbers. 

Now you downplay it and say you are all for it!

 

[TreeBeard]

18 minutes ago, User said:

First, you deny it, demand proof, and deny basic common sense numbers.

He showed the numbers.  That’s good. It gives us actual facts to discuss.  Otherwise we’re just discussing the poster’s “feelings”.  
 

20 minutes ago, User said:

Now you downplay it and say you are all for it!

I didn’t downplay it.  The numbers are the numbers.  
 

Why should we pay to keep someone dying alive against their will, and take up valuable medical resources to do so?
 

  I’m the compassionate conservative here, it seems.  

[John Stone]

 

[blackbird]

10 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Why should we pay to keep someone dying alive against their will, and take up valuable medical resources to do so?

You are confused.   Euthanasia is actively killing someone.  You and everyone should be providing compassionate care for people in need of it, not offering to end their misery by killing them.  That is just plain wrong.  

What are you saying about "taking up valuable medical resources"?   Everyone is entitled to health care as long as they are alive.  It's not up to you to decide who can live and who must die.  That is God's business.  

People who are suffering should be given every possible resource to ease their pain.  There are many types or kinds of pain killers and methods that are used.  If a person no longer wants extraordinary medical intervention, that is different than taking steps to actively kill them.  MAID is killing by poison, plain and simple.  It is active killing.

The purpose of the medical system is to provide compassionate care for everyone until our Creator takes them out of this life.  It is grossly wrong to think you can play God.

Edited December 31, 2025 by blackbird

[User]

10 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

He showed the numbers.  That’s good. It gives us actual facts to discuss.  Otherwise we’re just discussing the poster’s “feelings”.  

LOL, you denied the obvious. 

10 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

I didn’t downplay it.

Yes, you did:

"That’s a drop in the bucket in terms of health budgets."
 

 

10 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Why should we pay to keep someone dying alive against their will, and take up valuable medical resources to do so?

Once again, it has been pointed out to you here that this has expanded and is not just people dying like you keep portraying. You are also dishonestly flipping this around, as the issue is not keeping them alive against their will, but helping them kill themselves. 
 

10 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

I’m the compassionate conservative here, it seems.  

You might think you are compassionate, but a conservative you are not. 

[ironstone]

On 12/24/2025 at 5:58 PM, herbie said:

No one forces you into MAID the decision is yours.
Unfortunate4 the decision may be made on the grounds of financial ability, medical unavailability or poor decision making. Those causes should be eliminated.

There have been reports that some veterans who have contacted Veterans Affairs asking for assistance have had those staffers suggesting or offering MAID instead of providing them with the help they were asking for.

Leaders and staff at some food banks have reported that clients have expressed despair due to grinding poverty, poor mental health, and a lack of supports — and that some have asked how to apply for MAID or spoken about considering it because they feel they can’t live under such conditions.

Think about that, people reaching a point of desperation because of sky high grocery prices which is causing them to consider ending their own lives.

[TreeBeard]

6 hours ago, blackbird said:

Euthanasia is actively killing someone. 

Under their own direction and choice.  

 

6 hours ago, blackbird said:

You and everyone should be providing compassionate care for people in need of it, not offering to end their misery by killing them. 

Those two things are often the same.  It’s compassionate to let someone end their own suffering.  
 

6 hours ago, blackbird said:

It's not up to you to decide who can live and who must die.  That is God's business.  

So you would leave it up to God if you got an infection and not take antibiotics?

[John Stone]

On 12/31/2025 at 1:26 AM, Zeitgeist said:

We’ve had morphine and other drugs to deal with severe pain.  MAID is lazy and unethical so-called “healthcare”.  Canada is seen internationally as a cautionary tale for countries considering legalizing assisted suicide.  As so often seems to be the case these days, Canadians are largely unaware of what a bad look this legislation is.  

............ relation just pegged out 6 months after a cancer diagnosis. 

His decision was to die at home, surrounded by family ............ he too believed drugs could control pain (unconsciousness notwithstanding).

Unfortunately, he was mistaken. 

RIP, Pete.  

[Zeitgeist]

10 hours ago, John Stone said:

............ relation just pegged out 6 months after a cancer diagnosis. 

His decision was to die at home, surrounded by family ............ he too believed drugs could control pain (unconsciousness notwithstanding).

Unfortunately, he was mistaken. 

RIP, Pete.  

One can die at home on a morphine drip, treating the pain until death arrives.  It’s a peaceful, painless way to go as the body naturally dies.  That’s quite different from pulling the trigger on a substance that paralyzes your lungs as they fill up with liquid.  If most people knew how this lethal injection works, they might feel quite differently about MAID.  It’s akin to an abortion without the slicer and vacuum.

Edited January 1 by Zeitgeist

[TreeBeard]

10 hours ago, John Stone said:

............ relation just pegged out 6 months after a cancer diagnosis. 

His decision was to die at home, surrounded by family ............ he too believed drugs could control pain (unconsciousness notwithstanding).

Unfortunately, he was mistaken. 

RIP, Pete.  

What happened to the slippery slope?

[John Stone]

13 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

What happened to the slippery slope?

 

 

13 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

One can die at home on a morphine drip, treating the pain until death arrives.  It’s a peaceful, painless way to go as the body naturally dies.  That’s quite different from pulling the trigger on a substance that paralyzes your lungs as they fill up with liquid.  If most people knew how this lethal injection works, they might feel quite differently about MAID.  It’s akin to an abortion without the slicer and vacuum.

I'm not defending MAID.

However .........being at home, unconscious- catheter and shitting ur diaper while wasting away to the point of resembling a holocaust survivor is not my idea of a dignified exit. 

It is a personal decision ................ but is the decision increasingly being  made without coercion (?) ............ 

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, John Stone said:

 

 

I'm not defending MAID.

However .........being at home, unconscious- catheter and shitting ur diaper while wasting away to the point of resembling a holocaust survivor is not my idea of a dignified exit. 

It is a personal decision ................ but is the decision increasingly being  made without coercion (?) ............ 

I think we’re becoming inured to the significance of the state “helping” people kill themselves.  As life becomes cheaper in Canada and MAID becomes normalized and routine, the conversations are changing in predictable ways: “Really, I haven’t been feeling great lately and my nursing home fees are high.  My kids could use that money.  I’m tired of feeling like a 5th wheel at family events now that my husband is gone.  The doctor on my last checkup said he’ll sign off on MAID no problem when I’m ready.  His sister did it recently and it there was a beautiful celebration of life beforehand.  My neighbour down the hall checked out in January.  She seemed pretty comfortable with the idea.  I don’t know, I wanted to be alive to see my son’s newborn, my third grandchild, but I just think it would be easier if I went away this spring. They’ll have their hands full soon and don’t need to be worrying about my declining health.”

Edited January 2 by Zeitgeist

[John Stone]

25 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I think we’re becoming inured to the significance of the state “helping” people kill themselves.  As life becomes cheaper in Canada and MAID becomes normalized and routine, the conversations are changing in predictable ways: “Really, I haven’t been feeling great lately and my nursing home fees are high.  My kids could use that money.  I’m tired of feeling like a 5th wheel at family events now that my husband is gone.  The doctor on my last checkup said he’ll sign off on MAID no problem when I’m ready.  His sister did it recently and it there was a beautiful celebration of life beforehand.  My neighbour down the hall checked out in January.  She seemed pretty comfortable with the idea.  I don’t know, I wanted to be alive to see my son’s newborn, my third grandchild, but I just think it would be easier if I went away this spring. They’ll have their hands full soon and don’t need to be worrying about my declining health.”

..........well said - the option itself is coercion to a degree. 

'normalized and  routine' ?

How about, 'more inclusive and normalized'

[TreeBeard]

1 hour ago, John Stone said:

the option itself is coercion to a degree.

Having the option to buy alcohol is coercion to drink?   How weak minded are you guys?  And the answer is to not allow that “coercion” by not allowing it?  Of course not. 
 

4 hours ago, John Stone said:

but is the decision increasingly being  made without coercion

So it shouldn’t be available for your friend if there is any potential for abuse? 

[User]

2 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Having the option to buy alcohol is coercion to drink?   How weak minded are you guys?  And the answer is to not allow that “coercion” by not allowing it?  Of course not. 

Except, having the option to go to the grocery store or liquor store to buy a beer is not the same as a doctor having a professional obligation to inform you of the MAID program and refer you to someone for care if they themselves do not feel comfortable helping. 

So, the MAID program does not just merely exist, it is a medical treatment patients will be advised of. Must be given guidance and care for if interested in. 

I mean, it would be like seeing someone upset and then saying, here, why not have a drink to drown your sorrows away! 

 

2 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

So it shouldn’t be available for your friend if there is any potential for abuse? 

Do you agree there should be any limits? Your arguments are very much generalized that if a person wants it then who are we to say no. So, perfectly healthy adult wants to die, you are cool with that?

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Having the option to buy alcohol is coercion to drink?   How weak minded are you guys?  And the answer is to not allow that “coercion” by not allowing it?  Of course not. 
 

So it shouldn’t be available for your friend if there is any potential for abuse? 

The healthcare system has zero business killing people.  This is basic medical ethics and morality.  

Edited January 2 by Zeitgeist

[John Stone]

2 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Having the option to buy alcohol is coercion to drink?   How weak minded are you guys?  And the answer is to not allow that “coercion” by not allowing it?  Of course not. 
 

So it shouldn’t be available for your friend if there is any potential for abuse? 

- it was available,  as an option - relatively young, he was going  to beat it - hope was his option. 

coercion is having the option available and it being subtly promoted ............. or feeling self guilt having not taken advantage of it for the sake of the family.  

My grandfather died of cancer in Palliative care some time ago ............ at least once a day he'd confess that he felt he was a burden to the family.  

 

Edited January 2 by John Stone

[TreeBeard]

48 minutes ago, User said:

Do you agree there should be any limits?

There are already limits.  Of course there should be.  No one said there shouldn’t. 

 

23 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The healthcare system has zero business killing people.  This is basic medical ethics and morality.  

In your opinion.  But in actual medical ethics and morality, it makes perfect sense. 
 

14 minutes ago, John Stone said:

it was available,  as an option

But you don’t think it should’ve been. You would have rather seen him suffer.  Yikes. 

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, TreeBeard said:

There are already limits.  Of course there should be.  No one said there shouldn’t. 

 

In your opinion.  But in actual medical ethics and morality, it makes perfect sense. 
 

But you don’t think it should’ve been. You would have rather seen him suffer.  Yikes. 

Your way of thinking is dangerous.  I wouldn’t want you in charge of any seniors’ homes, palliative care units, or military hospitals.