Trump Calls Refusal to Execute Illegal Orders Treason

[BeaverFever]

On 11/30/2025 at 2:15 PM, User said:

That is not the definition of combat. Also, back to your being obtuse again, trying to act like the guy in the fuel truck delivering fuel to the tanks is not in combat either... 

OMFG WHAT TANKS THERE ARE NO TANKS - NO ATTACKS ON AMERICANS BY ANYONE 

You continually refuse to explain how any of these people are terrorists. Your dumbass analogy of the guys fuelling tanks RELIES ON the idea that they are still supporting attacks on Americans but in REALITY none of the Venezuelans are supporting any attacks. So its not like fuelling tanks at all. AT ALL.  

And then your next ignorant argument was to claim that the US military thousands of miles just to bomb the low-level guys who did minor jobs like “fuel tanks” when in reality they only did that to kill leaders and high value targets not the peasants who work for them. 

On 11/30/2025 at 2:15 PM, User said:

Sure they are. Regardless of your semantics, the point remains that the United States has declared them to be an enemy organization to the state and is engaged in military/combat operations against them to neutralize that threat. 

They are not, regardless of all your conspiratorial claims, just out randomly blowing up families enjoying a picnic on their sailboat. 

No they are not and it’s not “semantics” when will you MAGAs learn that words have meaning for a reason.  You’re not a terrorist just because Donald Trump says you are. He doesn’t have free license to just murder who ever he pleases and make it legal by just calling them terrorists.  
 

And you continue to lie and misrepresent what I said which again proves you have no real argument. 
 

On 11/30/2025 at 2:15 PM, User said:

No lie, you are the one here pretending there is no evidence and the US military is just out randomly blowing up people trying to enjoy their day on a sail boat. 

FACT:  NO EVIDENCE HAS BEEN PRESENTED TO THE PUBLIC AND YOU KNOW IT  For you to suggest that the fact that the military followed orders is evidence is beyond stupid even for you  

FACT:  you continue to lie about what I said 

 

On 11/30/2025 at 2:15 PM, User said:

This is not a court of law, it is a military engagement. Why can't you figure this simple concept out?

There’s an actual thing called war crimes, look it up. 
 

On 11/30/2025 at 2:15 PM, User said:

Oh great, another one of your distractions. Listen man, you run away from almost every thread you are in and can barely keep up here, stay focused. 

Not a distraction at all. The Iraq war, which was based on a President’s lies, is a valid rebuttal to your ridiculous claim that the military doesn’t carry out orders unless they’re justified so that’s “evidence” that Trump’s claims are true.  That’s not a conspiracy. The president is commander in chief of the military. They follow his orders,  they don’t refuse orders unless the President can persuade them they’re legitimate. Clearly you know nothing about the military. 
 

On 11/30/2025 at 2:15 PM, User said:

So are you. What is your point? 

Trump is not the one out there single-handedly blowing up narco terrorists and then coming back to say what he did. 

No, you and Trump are the liars  Trump is singlehandedly responsible for these attacks because he is the one who concocted up this half-baked ridiculous story about America being targeted by these fictitious “narco-terrorists” and then he ordered the military to the coast of Venezuela to hunt them down  This is his campaign that he dreamed up  You are talking as if you think the US military just bumped into these people by chance or something.
 

Are the people being killed local smugglers?  Sure, maybe. Perhaps even probably. But they’re not “terrorists” and they’re not targeting USA. SO go ahead a keep lying that I’m claiming that they’re families on sailboats because you’re off your rocker and have no rational argument, everyone who reads this thread can see that. 
 

On 11/30/2025 at 2:15 PM, User said:

Lets see, you make an ignorant claim that all terrorists were on some kind of known combat zone at war such as Afghanistan or Iraq... and I am pointing out to you they were not. 

You can't deal with those facts, so this is what you do instead. 

You’re not only ignorant about the war on terror you can’t even follow simple statements of fact. When ACTUAL terrorists targeted the USA or Americans at hime or abroad they were hunted down wherever they were hiding. 

YOUR so-called “narco-terrorists” are not actual terrorists by any stretch of the imagination and are not targeting USA or Americans. 
 

On 11/30/2025 at 2:15 PM, User said:

Oh, OK then, so you do grasp the concept that this war on narco terrorists can in fact be carried out in international waters like this. Great! Glad you came around. 

Genius, the problem isn’t with killing terrorists overseas it’s that the people Trump is targeting AREN’T TERRORISTS by any stretch of imagination. How many times does it need to be said?????

On 11/30/2025 at 2:15 PM, User said:

LOL, so... now your big conspiracy is that Obama was not in charge of the US military?! They were just running around blowing people up without permission all around the globe?!

JFC you really know nothing. Obama and Trumo don’t staybup ant night doing intelligence work finding target

Obama says “find me Al-Qaeda targets”. The military finds the targets tells Obama they’re confident it’s legitimate and clean and Obama gives the green light.  Obama doesn’t say “go bomb a wedding of innocent people and go bomb some US troops”

 

Trump says” Go bomb some smugglers off the coast of Venezuela, I’ll tell the public these are “narco-terrorists” targeting America, my gullible supporters will believe anything I say. Those smugglers are criminals anyway so who cares.” Trump hand pick the target he relies on military to identify and if some were fishermen that’s on the military but the whole fake mission is on Trump. 
 

On 11/30/2025 at 2:15 PM, User said:

Not that. 

So to recap

1) You don’t know what Trump’s justification for these attacks is 

2) You don’t know what the evidence for Trump’s claims of “narco-terrorists targeting America” is or how they even supposedly targeted America

3) You don’t know what a terrorist is

4) You don’t know what war crimes are

5) You don’t know anything about the Global War on Terror 

6) You don’t know what my arguments are so you lie and make up straw men 

[BeaverFever]

On 11/30/2025 at 4:58 PM, User said:

He has been there for 10 months now. 

That’s still new especially considering he has ZERO relevant experience or knowledge he was a Fox News tv host FFS.  

[BeaverFever]

On 11/30/2025 at 4:08 PM, Venandi said:

No one is suggesting they actually make that trip BTW. 

The fast movers meet up with another boat at a predetermined place and time and transfer the cargo. Sometimes (but not always of course) it can happen in reverse at destination. Lot's more flexibility for bad guys with that approach.

I have no idea what's actually happening there BTW... absolutely none, if I did I wouldn't be commenting on it. But, I'm guessing that a UAV was tracking these shipments from point of origin to the dock, from the dock to the boat, and the boat to international (or at least safe) waters prior to and during the engagement. I only say that because that's what I'd be doing.

Regardless though, I'm confident that there is nothing haphazard, reckless or careless about any of this.... it makes for a good story but it's just not how things like this are done.

Venezuela doesn’t produce cocaine nor is it a final hub for shipments headed to USA.
 

The Trump administration is nothing but haphazard, reckless and careless. While I am sure the US military does take steps to target actual drug dealers not random civilians, their poor record on friendly fire and civilian casualties speaks for itself 

[User]

49 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

That’s still new especially considering he has ZERO relevant experience or knowledge he was a Fox News tv host FFS.  

Are we still doing this stupid, dishonest game where you pretend like Hegseth was not in the military on the front lines serving as an Officer in wartime?

DURRRRRRRRRRRRRR i Am A lIbTaRd, HeGsEtH wAs JuSt A fOx NeWs HoSt DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

 

[User]

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

You continually refuse to explain how any of these people are terrorists.

Educate yourself:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/designating-cartels-and-other-organizations-as-foreign-terrorist-organizations-and-specially-designated-global-terrorists/
 

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

So its not like fuelling tanks at all. AT ALL.  

You always love to ignore what you said that I was responding to... which was your stupid DURRRRRRR Its not "combat" DURRRRRRRRRR
 

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

You’re not a terrorist just because Donald Trump says you are. He doesn’t have free license to just murder who ever he pleases and make it legal by just calling them terrorists.  

Trump didn't just say they were, it is not murder, it is not being done just as he pleases...

It helps if you try to be honest. Educated yourself. 

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

FACT:  NO EVIDENCE HAS BEEN PRESENTED TO THE PUBLIC AND YOU KNOW IT  For you to suggest that the fact that the military followed orders is evidence is beyond stupid even for you  

FACT:  you continue to lie about what I said 

So, you are sticking with the conspiracy theory of yours, that the entire chain of command is a bunch of mindless robots blowing up families on sailboats enjoying a picnic because Trump randomly woke up one day and said they were terrorists... 

You are not a serious person. 

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

There’s an actual thing called war crimes, look it up. 

What about them?

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

these fictitious “narco-terrorists”

As I said, you are pushing this absurd conspiracy theory. Now you don't even believe narco terrorists exist! 

Trump has broken you people. Your brains do not work, you will do or say anything to spite Trump. 

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

You’re not only ignorant about the war on terror you can’t even follow simple statements of fact. When ACTUAL terrorists targeted the USA or Americans at hime or abroad they were hunted down wherever they were hiding. 

Again, you were the one who made the ignorant arguments about locations. Like I continually have to do, I corrected you. Glad you have come around. 

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

Genius, the problem isn’t with killing terrorists overseas it’s that the people Trump is targeting AREN’T TERRORISTS by any stretch of imagination. How many times does it need to be said?????

Except, you made the argument about the location...

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

JFC you really know nothing.

You were the one trying to argue Obama was not responsible. 

 

[Venandi]

8 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Venezuela doesn’t produce cocaine nor is it a final hub for shipments headed to USA.

Saying that changes little because the Goddess of Reality doesn't care what any of us think.... Columbia is the primary producer, Venezuela serves as a transportation hub and criminal organizations there focus on distribution. Corruption in the government greases the skids and geography makes it a strategic location. 

8 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

The Trump administration is nothing but haphazard, reckless and careless.

 I can't speak to that... BUT, nothing in my experience suggests that the US military is.

I'm not trying to justify or defend anything here but I think the people who see these events as random attacks on pleasure boats would be gob smacked by the target development and continuous surveillance that takes place prior to engagements like this. 

The fact that these boats can't transit to the US coast is a given... it's not evidence of innocence and I chuckle a bit every time someone suggests that it is. Their purpose is to meet up with the mule ship (or submersible) and transfer the cargo... that's how these things are generally done.

I can't speak to all of the legalities here either but I would note that there are usually JAG officer(s) in attendance prior to and during engagements like this. As to the terrorism discussion, I would observe that the cartels, by virtue of their brutality and political influence do qualify as terrorist organizations. Their political objectives are fuelled by cocaine instead of religious ideology (for instance) but much of the associated violence is politically motivated.

As you probably know, several cartels are currently designated as terrorist organizations, to my feeble way of thinking that would make their proxies and supporting logistic entities legitimate targets. That's just an opinion BTW, as I said, the legalities here are not my forte and by the sound of things, I'm guessing it's not yours either.

  

Edited December 2, 2025 by Venandi

[BeaverFever]

35 minutes ago, Venandi said:

The fact that these boats can't transit to the US coast is a given... it's not evidence of innocence and I chuckle a bit every time someone suggests that it is. Their purpose is to meet up with the mule ship (or submersible) and transfer the cargo... that's how these things are generally done.

And yet with an entire US naval fleet in the area not one submersible (which probably couldn’t reach the US either) or “mule ship” has been reported. Why not follow these alleged drug boats to their destination? Wouldn’t that be the biggest prize?

As for the professionalism of the US military, as I said their record of friendly fire and civilian casualties speaks for itself. They have a reputation for being trigger happy and indifferent to the consequences when the wrong people get killed 

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

And yet with an entire US naval fleet in the area not one submersible (which probably couldn’t reach the US either) or “mule ship” has been reported. Why not follow these alleged drug boats to their destination? Wouldn’t that be the biggest prize?

As for the professionalism of the US military, as I said their record of friendly fire and civilian casualties speaks for itself. They have a reputation for being trigger happy and indifferent to the consequences when the wrong people get killed 

Dude...you're pissing into the wind. The Trump administration has labeled drug traffickers as terrorists. 

[Venandi]

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

And yet with an entire US naval fleet in the area not one submersible (which probably couldn’t reach the US either) or “mule ship” has been reported.

I doubt you'll be seeing surface compilation plots and intelligence summaries on MSNBC anytime soon and I think the reasons for it are obvious. 

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Why not follow these alleged drug boats to their destination? Wouldn’t that be the biggest prize?

That's an option but it's thirsty work and 24 hour surveillance for multiple days comes at a cost... in addition, the real bad guys remain unscathed because the takedowns occur at the end of the supply chain. As you walk that chain the bad guys tend to become less bad (relatively speaking of course) as you get nearer to the end user. 

This is immediate by comparison, it eliminates both the contraband and smugglers simultaneously and it has a huge chilling effect on the entire operation right at it's source.

Hands up if you want to drive a fast boat for a couple of hours?

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

They have a reputation for being trigger happy and indifferent to the consequences... 

Only with those who watch too much NETFLIX.

I have never seen anything that comes close to that, in fact, I've always found them to be careful, deliberate, methodical and professional. That's not to say things can't go wrong in the fog but the officers you label trigger happy / indifferent are few and far between... nobody wants to work with them, the guy authorizing engagements doesn't trust them and they don't last long.

That's probably why I've never (and I mean NEVER) come across a single one of them.

Edited December 2, 2025 by Venandi

[WestCanMan]

The people who cheered when Trudeau froze bank accounts, turned horses on peaceful protesters, had the police steal gas from protesters, called the unvaxed "racists and misogynists", and had peaceful protesters beaten in the street are worried about "illegal orders" now.

GFYS. You cheered on fascism for years and now you're upset because Trump is killing some drug dealers. 

Everyone knows that you shouldn't bring a ton of cocaine into the US, and FYI Trump didn't start this drug war. He became president when drugs were killing 100,000 Americans every year and now he killed 20 drug dealers. 😭 

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Why not follow these alleged drug boats to their destination? Wouldn’t that be the biggest prize?

No, for a lot of reasons.

1) The drugs don't always stay on that boat from the beginning of the trip to the end. They can drop it off in designated areas to be picked up by other vessels. 500 kilos on one boat can easily become 50 kilos on ten boats, and then 1 kilo on 500 boats. And believe me, there's enough money in moving a kilo of coke that you can find 500 willing mules.

2) The drugs don't always go all the way to the US by sea. Look how many countries and islands there are along the way where the drugs can be offloaded and then loaded into different planes, sailboats, ships, etc...

Do you really think that a cigarette boat with 500 kilos of coke that's visible by airplanes and drones was just gonna cruise into Florida?

No. 

They had the opportunity to take out one massive shipment of drugs before it was split into 500 smaller shipments of drugs which would have required an immense amount of manpower and resources to trace. 

Have you ever heard the saying "Best ya git while the gittin's good"? Or "a stitch in time saves nine"?

Trump saw an opportunity, and he took it. Good for him.

[BeaverFever]

9 hours ago, User said:

Educate yourself:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/designating-cartels-and-other-organizations-as-foreign-terrorist-organizations-and-specially-designated-global-terrorists/

LMAO. only a brainwashed MAGA twit would consider a link to Trump’s lies on the White House propaganda page is “education,” or think that the way you prove Trump’s lies are true id just to post link back to the same damn lie. Go drink some more kool-aid you fool. 
 

9 hours ago, User said:

You always love to ignore what you said that I was responding to... which was your stupid DURRRRRRR Its not "combat" DURRRRRRRRRR

Dummy:  there’s no combat. Someone fueling a tank that’s killing Americans is still helping kill Americans and that’s what makes him a legit target.  You can’t compare that to Venezuela where nobody there has any connection to any Americans being targeted and saying it’s the same thing. 

How clueless are you?  Its hilarious 

By your argument,

- Mark Carney should be allowed to declare YOU a terrorist and it’s true simply because he says so,

- he can then send the Canadian military to kill you in your sleep  or gun you down wherever, which is “combat” simply because it involves the military 

- and the evidence that automatically proves it all to be true and a legitimate kill is simply fact that the military wouldn’t have followed his orders otherwise, no further evidence needed or accepted 

- and that killing you or any other person on the planet is no different than killing a terrorist who fuels a tank that kills Canadian soldiers because neither you nor the tank filler not anyone else directly kills Canadians. 

Does this help you see how absolutely stupid your arguments are?

 

9 hours ago, User said:

Trump didn't just say they were, it is not murder, it is not being done just as he pleases...

It helps if you try to be honest. Educated yourself. 

Yes he did he simply decree these people ate terrorist. Their “terrorist group” doesn’t have a name or an ideology or any sort of political agenda or as far as I can tell any history of actually committing terrorist attacks which is of course strange for a terrorist group. There doesn’t seem be any definition of terrorist that fits and Trump doesn’t seem to be promoting one, he doesn’t really care about things like definitions anyway.   They’re “terrorists” only because he says they are because drugs are bad. 
 

9 hours ago, User said:

So, you are sticking with the conspiracy theory of yours, that the entire chain of command is a bunch of mindless robots blowing up families on sailboats enjoying a picnic because Trump randomly woke up one day and said they were terrorists... 

You are not a serious person. 

You’re just repeating your lies and ignorance about the military now. You’re have no intelligent arguments so you’re just going to sit at your computer 24/7 because you are a loser who has no life and repeat your nonsense until the the other person walks away and then you say “I won am internet argument” amd your life has meaning for a few minutes. 
 

“Ours is not to question why ours is but to donor die”.  That’s a famous saying that a clueless shmuck like you obviously hasn’t heard of. The military doesn’t get to question the President. The military doesn’t have the option to agree or disagree with presidential orders or go public if they have a concern. If you’re so hopelessly dumb that you don’t understand that, there’s no helping you. 
 

You are neither serious nor honest you just repeat your lies and asinine  arguments until the other person gives up because unlike most people you have no other life besides typing internet arguments 24/7. 
 

11 hours ago, User said:

What about them?

They exist for a reason. You can’t just order the military to kill whoever you feel like.

11 hours ago, User said:

As I said, you are pushing this absurd conspiracy theory. Now you don't even believe narco terrorists exist! 

These people Trump is targeting are not narco-terrorists. You can’t even provide a definition of what one is or how these people meet that definition. You can’t articulate what “terrorist” acts they  committed. You continue to avoid these questions and just post links back to Trump’s lies and propaganda on the white house website because you can’t answer the question. 
 

Let me help you   Narco-terrorism is where:

1) drug cartels engage in acts of terrorism such as bombings and assassination against law enforcement or government officials  > NOT THE CASE HERE…no US citizens or officials have been targeted and Trump is alleging they are working for the Venezuelan government  

2) Traditional terrorist groups with political motives engage in drug trafficking to raise money > NOT THE CASE HERE….not the case here, there are no terrorist groups operating in Venezuela 

Your BS argument is if you have drugs then you must be a “narco terrorist” which is false not to mention you haven’t even proven there are drugs.  US and Canadian ships seize tons of drugs in the Caribbean each year why haven’t any been seized here?

Why did they release survivors of a recent strike who were captured if they’re “narco-terrorists”?  I’ll tell you, because after the “kill them all” debacle of the second strike where they circled back to execute survivors clinging to wreckage someone in the kill chain understood that was a big no-no. 
 

11 hours ago, User said:

Again, you were the one who made the ignorant arguments about locations. Like I continually have to do, I corrected you. Glad you have come around. 

Nope my arguments were accurate the ignorance was in your lack of comprehension. 
 

11 hours ago, User said:

Except, you made the argument about the location...

I said they’re thousands of miles from US shores a d in short range boats so clearly not smuggling drugs into USA. 

 

11 hours ago, User said:

You were the one trying to argue Obama was not responsible. 

You are so dense.
 

The military and intelligence locates the target and makes the recommendation, the president reviews and approves based on the information they provide.  
 

So Obama is the one who said  “hunt down and kill AlQaeda” and the military/intelligence says “ok take my word for it, that gathering is an al Qaeda meeting…oops turns out after the fact that was a wedding sorry Mr president ”. You are trying to make it sound kind Obama said “go bomb a wedding full of innocent people”. 
 

Now for Trump, it went like this, with Trump saying “our new policy is that all drug smuggling off the coast of Venezuela is now called “narco-terrorism” because we say it is and we’re shameless liars for whom words have no meaning. These “narco-terrorist “ boats are to be destroyed on sight no questions asked, leave no survivors even though they’re unarmed and could be easily captured, which we think we can get away with because we’re now calling them terrorists”   And the military says “ok take my word for it, the boats we targeted had drugs in them although by blowing them to pieces on sight we don’t have any evidence….oops circling back to execute those survivors on that second boat was a little too obvious, we’ll try to kill everyone with the first shot as much as possible otherwise we might have to rescue them and let them go.”

[BeaverFever]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Dude...you're pissing into the wind. The Trump administration has labeled drug traffickers as terrorists. 

Because they’re shameless liars. They just label anyone they want as terrorists when they want to kill someone. The word “terrorist” has an actual meaning it’s not just whatever Trump says it is. The history books are full of dictators who falsely the “terrorist” label as an excuse whenever they want to justify killing someone. 

[WestCanMan]

4 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

LMAO. only a brainwashed MAGA twit would consider a link to Trump’s lies on the White House propaganda page is “education,” or think that the way you prove Trump’s lies are true id just to post link back to the same damn lie. Go drink some more kool-aid you fool. 

Oh look! Collusion Boy is trying to tell other people what constitutes propaganda 😂

How many jabs do you have, idjit?

How many times have you voted LPoC recently, and how's the country doing right now compared to 2015?  

You need to take a minute to reflect on your track record, Beave. You voted for losers, you were sucked in by propaganda dozens of times, you backed horrible policies, and you railed against facts and progress.

Are there 215 dead bodies, dummy? Were all the riots and murders for G Floyd and M Brown worth it, after you found out how and why they died? Did vax safety and efficacy justify killed & maimed children?

You're a loser, Beave. Every person and policy you backed was an epic failure. Hillary, Trudeau, Carney, Kamala 😂 You're a sad, pathetic, stupid f'ing loser.

[BeaverFever]

26 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

No, for a lot of reasons.

1) The drugs don't always stay on that boat from the beginning of the trip to the end. They can drop it off in designated areas to be picked up by other vessels. 500 kilos on one boat can easily become 50 kilos on ten boats, and then 1 kilo on 500 boats. And believe me, there's enough money in moving a kilo of coke that you can find 500 willing mules.

2) The drugs don't always go all the way to the US by sea. Look how many countries and islands there are along the way where the drugs can be offloaded and then loaded into different planes, sailboats, ships, etc...

Do you really think that a cigarette boat with 500 kilos of coke that's visible by airplanes and drones was just gonna cruise into Florida?

No. 

They had the opportunity to take out one massive shipment of drugs before it was split into 500 smaller shipments of drugs which would have required an immense amount of manpower and resources to trace. 

Have you ever heard the saying "Best ya git while the gittin's good"? Or "a stitch in time saves nine"?

Trump saw an opportunity, and he took it. Good for him.

1) Cocaine isn’t grown or made in Venezuela, if he’s truly aiming for the source it ain’t there

2) As you say the drugs that do get smuggled are distributed all around the world, Trump is suggesting it is primarily aimed at USA as part of someone’s sinister plot to destroy the USA. 

3) The unarmed go/fast boats are easy to intercept and board, no need to destroy on sight and the evidence along with it

4) Following the boats to destination could take down entire global distribution networks in jurisdictions USA has influence over rather than a rogue state US has zero influence over. 
5) The fact that Trump is massing invasion forces and carrying out special operations inside Venezuela while pardoning a convicted cocaine smuggling kingpin from Honduras just 1 year into his sentence proves this isn’t about cutting off Don Jr’s favourite party accessory after all. 

[BeaverFever]

10 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

How many jabs do you have

Several, just got one a couple weeks ago and Im perfectly healthy, probably healthier than you,  dipshit. 
 

10 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

You're a sad, pathetic, stupid f'ing loser.

LMAO My life is great!  I’m successful, educated and upper income with an awesome and fulfilling personal and professional life while you’re a dumbass ignorant high school dropout  filled with right wing lies propaganda and nutjob conspiracies, living a shitty life with a shitty job (if you even have one) with shitty income in a shitty town and blaming everyone except yourself for your miserable existence. 

[Nationalist]

20 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Because they’re shameless liars. They just label anyone they want as terrorists when they want to kill someone. The word “terrorist” has an actual meaning it’s not just whatever Trump says it is. The history books are full of dictators who falsely the “terrorist” label as an excuse whenever they want to justify killing someone. 

See the below article and graph.

https://www.consumershield.com/articles/fentanyl-deaths-per-year

Ya I think this drug thing is an emergency and those who bring it into the country qualify as "terrorists".

[Nationalist]

1 minute ago, BeaverFever said:

Several, just got one a couple weeks ago and Im perfectly healthy, probably healthier than you,  dipshit. 
 

LMAO My life is great!  I’m successful, educated and upper income with an awesome and fulfilling personal and professional life while you’re a dumbass ignorant high school dropout  filled with right wing lies propaganda and nutjob conspiracies, living a shitty life with a shitty job (if you even have one) with shitty income in a shitty town and blaming everyone except yourself for your miserable existence. 

Huh...dont have kids.

[BeaverFever]

1 hour ago, Venandi said:

doubt you'll be seeing surface compilation plots and intelligence summaries on MSNBC anytime soon and I think the reasons for it are obvious. 

Come on. They make a big public show of seizing drug ships all the time under Operation Caribe complete with photo ops and all. And they have no problem releasing footage of the boat strikes.   It’s silly to suggest they can’t show any hint of evidence of “mother ships” or submersibles without releasing classified and technical reports. 
 

1 hour ago, Venandi said:

That's an option but it's thirsty work and 24 hour surveillance for multiple days comes at a cost... in addition, the real bad guys remain unscathed because the takedowns occur at the end of the supply chain. As you walk that chain the bad guys tend to become less bad (relatively speaking of course) as you get nearer to the end user. 

This is immediate by comparison, it eliminates both the contraband and smugglers simultaneously and it has a huge chilling effect on the entire operation right at it's source.

But cocaine doesn’t come from Venezuela its a transit point. They’re not the beginning of the supply chain or “the real bad guys” as you define them, they’re just more middlemen. And the US, Canada and others already intercept drug shipments in the Caribbean through operation caribe so that’s already a thing they do. 
 

1 hour ago, Venandi said:

This is immediate by comparison, it eliminates both the contraband and smugglers simultaneously and it has a huge chilling effect on the entire operation right at it's source.

Venezuela is not the source. 
 

1 hour ago, Venandi said:

Only with those who watch too much NETFLIX.

I have never seen anything that comes close to that, in fact, I've always found them to be careful, deliberate, methodical and professional. That's not to say things can't go wrong in the fog but the officers you label trigger happy / indifferent are few and far between... nobody wants to work with them, the guy authorizing engagements doesn't trust them and they don't last long.

That's probably why I've never (and I mean NEVER) come across a single one of them.

The numbers speak for themselves including not one but two airstrikes against Canadians in Afghanistan, drone strikes on civilians, an Apache attack on Iraqi ambulances while the pilots laugh and cheer watching the doctors run for cover, there’s an endless list of incidents and atrocities both deliberate and unintentional.
 

From Vietnam to Iraq, My Lai, Rolling Thunder, Haditha, Tarnak Farms, Abu Ghraib, Fallujah, hundreds of other examples, the US is NOTORIOUS for friendly fire and collateral damage and not holding the perpetrators of war crimes responsible after the fact.  I’m not saying they have zero protocols but professional adherence to weak protocols isn’t the same thing. 

Edited December 2, 2025 by BeaverFever

[Venandi]

20 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Come on. They make a big public show of seizing drug ships all the time under Operation Caribe complete with photo ops and all. And they have no problem releasing footage of the boat strikes.   It’s silly to suggest they can’t show any hint of evidence of “mother ships” or submersibles without releasing classified and technical reports. 

You come on... those releases (with meta data removed) come at the conclusion of an operation when everyone takes a bow and congratulates themselves, not at the beginning or during the course of it.

As to the rest, everything I have to say on the matter is in the two posts above...I'm not going to spar with you, believe what you want.

Edited December 2, 2025 by Venandi

[robosmith]

10 hours ago, Venandi said:

 I can't speak to that... BUT, nothing in my experience suggests that the US military is.

The US military under Hegseth is NOT COMPARABLE to previous versions.

He has stated he is completely discarding the normal rules of engagement. 🤮

[WestCanMan]

5 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

1) Cocaine isn’t grown or made in Venezuela, if he’s truly aiming for the source it ain’t there

Look at a map ffs.

FYI drug traffickers don't respect international borders. Especially when the country that they're travelling to has an open-door policy.

Venezuela is on the Atlantic side of SA, so there is a lot of access to the eastern seaboard of the US from there. 

Drugs from all over SA go through Venezuela on their way to Europe and the US.

Quote

2) As you say the drugs that do get smuggled are distributed all around the world, Trump is suggesting it is primarily aimed at USA as part of someone’s sinister plot to destroy the USA. 

You're conflating separate issues.

1) Cocaine is just a narcotic, being created and sold for profit just like alway.

2) Fentanyl is part of a Chinese plot to kill Americans. It's kinda not murder, because addicts take it willingly, but the Chinese gov't could crack down on that instantly if they wanted to, they just don't want to. 

But the war on drugs is becoming an actual hot war now. Boots may be on the ground soon, operating in military fashion, not just a DEA-style law enforcement operation.

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3) The unarmed go/fast boats are easy to intercept and board, no need to destroy on sight and the evidence along with it

But they don't necessarily go all the way to the US. They have thousands of options for splitting up the product after they get out to the open sea. 

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4) Following the boats to destination could take down entire global distribution networks in jurisdictions USA has influence over rather than a rogue state US has zero influence over. 

Nope. It's not as simple as following one boat all the way across the Atlantic to the mother distribution hub 😂. 

It's a large network of mules, routes and distribution hubs, all operating with nearly total ignorance of each other. They compartmentalize their operations the same way as terrorists do, going back to Escobar's time. They don't all know each other. They are all operating as cells within a larger organism with no knowledge of who else does what, and there's not one gigantic gathering place where they could lose everything in one afternoon.

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5) The fact that Trump is massing invasion forces and carrying out special operations inside Venezuela while pardoning a convicted cocaine smuggling kingpin from Honduras just 1 year into his sentence proves this isn’t about cutting off Don Jr’s favourite party accessory after all. 

 Neither of us has access to all of Trump's foreign intel. 

You have no clue how much info that "kingpin" is giving Trump in exchange for his freedom, do you? Did you honestly think Trump was letting him out for nothing? Is that how he does business? Is he famous for giving valuable things away?

And I'm not even suggesting that this hasn't been the endgame all along, going back to the Biden administration. It's possible, even likely, that getting him sentenced just so that they could leverage his freedom for intel was part of the plan since day 1 of his arrest.

The Dems used the offer of reduced sentencing on Manafort et al to get false testimony against Trump during the witch hunt, remember? This is a classic Dem move.

Clearly getting that one guy into jail didn't win the war. They want a huge win, not just one guy sitting in jail forever.

[WestCanMan]

6 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Several, just got one a couple weeks ago and Im perfectly healthy, probably healthier than you,  dipshit. 

If you're perfectly healthy then you don't need the jabs at all. You truly are a dipshit if you're actually healthy and taking the jabs. 

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LMAO My life is great!  I’m successful, educated and upper income with an awesome and fulfilling personal and professional life while

You're still an idjit, Beave. 

You still believe in the jabs, the LPOC, Kamala Harris, collusion....

Your entire history here is one of being 100% wrong about everything, and then denying all evidence and carrying on like a petulant child.  

I can't for the life of me imagine how someone as dumb and childish as you are is successful at anything. I think that you're lying, as usual.

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you’re a dumbass ignorant high school dropout  

You know that BS, I'm clearly far more intelligent than you are, but unsubstantiated ad hominem attacks are all you've got. 

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filled with right wing lies propaganda and nutjob conspiracies,

Do you care to try to name 1 time that you were right and I was wrong?

• Did they find 215 bodies or did you get sucked into a leftard conspiracy theory again, stupid?
• Did they find any evidence of collusion or did you get sucked into a leftard conspiracy theory again, stupid?
• Did covid deaths and hospitalizations go down after we force-vaxed the country or did you get sucked into a leftard conspiracy theory again, stupid?
• Did the LPoC make the country better in even one way, or did you get sucked in by blatant leftard BS on CBC again, stupid?

We both know that you're not gonna try to squeak up here. You're gonna keep your pouty little head down and just offer up another generic and childish insult, right Beavey boy? 😉

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living a shitty life with a shitty job (if you even have one) with shitty income in a shitty town and blaming everyone except yourself for your miserable existence. 

Blah, blah, blah.

So all that you've got again is: "My life is gweat and yers sux and I'm super-edjoocated and yew're a dwopout 😭"... that doesn't sound like the argument of a successful and intelligent person now, does it 😉

I'll just refer you back to the information from my last post, little boy.

Instead of just feeling humiliation as you read it, try to have an open mind and learn from it. There's a lot of valuable information and insight there that an alt-left cultist like you isn't exposed to very often. 

[User]

8 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

LMAO. only a brainwashed MAGA twit would consider a link to Trump’s lies

You continually lie about, mischaracterize, and demand I explain Trump's reasoning on why these are terrorists and a threat... so I provide it to you. 

You are not interested in the facts, just your derangement syndrome, where you must hate Trump. 

8 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Dummy:  there’s no combat.

So, back to your stupid comment again. Just ike there is no "combat" with the fuel tanker delivery to the tanks... 

9 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

By your argument,

Not my argument, evidenced by the fact that you didn't quote anything I said to respond to. 

9 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Yes he did he simply decree these people ate terrorist.

Nope. This is why I provided you the White House link to the information behind this declaration. Not my fault you are such a fundamentally dishonest person. 

9 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

You’re just repeating your lies and ignorance about the military now. You’re have no intelligent arguments so you’re just going to sit at your computer 24/7 because you are a loser who has no life and repeat your nonsense until the the other person walks away and then you say “I won am internet argument” amd your life has meaning for a few minutes. 

As usual, you can't defend your assertions and your being a cowardly liar, so you have to criticize me for being on the same forum you are wasting your life on. LOL

9 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

The military doesn’t have the option to agree or disagree with presidential orders or go public if they have a concern. If you’re so hopelessly dumb that you don’t understand that, there’s no helping you. 

And yet here we are talking about the orders... ROFL How are you this dumb?
 

9 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

You are neither serious nor honest you just repeat your lies and asinine  arguments until the other person gives up because unlike most people you have no other life besides typing internet arguments 24/7. 

You do love to type a bunch of crap that has next to nothing to do with anything. That is your problem, not mine. 

 

9 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

They exist for a reason. You can’t just order the military to kill whoever you feel like.

What. Is. Your. Point? No one is killing whoever they feel like here. 

9 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

These people Trump is targeting are not narco-terrorists.

So... back to your families out on their sailboats, enjoying a picnic, conspiracy again...
 

9 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

I said they’re thousands of miles from US shores a d in short range boats so clearly not smuggling drugs into USA. 

This is beyond dumb. So... how do drugs ever get here then - I guess your next big argument is that all drugs consumed in America were never smuggled here, they were all manufactured here. LOL

Trump has eaten your brain. You have no intelligence left.

9 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Now for Trump

And... another string of lies. 

[BeaverFever]

On 12/2/2025 at 9:15 PM, User said:

You continually lie about, mischaracterize, and demand I explain Trump's reasoning on why these are terrorists and a threat... so I provide it to you. 

You are not interested in the facts, just your derangement syndrome, where you must hate Trum

No, you proved you are unable to explain in your own words and you’re unable to.  Posting a link to Trump’s lies doesn’t prove the very same lies are accurate. 
 

On 12/2/2025 at 9:15 PM, User said:

So, back to your stupid comment again. Just ike there is no "combat" with the fuel tanker delivery to the tanks... 

THE  EXISTENCE OF THE TANK IS WHY THERE IS COMBAT YOU DUMMY 

YES…A guy carrying fuel to a tank that is firing on you is  participating in combat and attacks against you  

NO….A guy who is just carrying fuel down the street and there is no tank and nobody firing at you is NOT participating in combat or attacking you  

HOW DO YOU NOT GET IT?????

 

On 12/2/2025 at 9:15 PM, User said:

Nope. This is why I provided you the White House link to the information behind this declaration. Not my fault you are such a fundamentally dishonest person. 

His made up claims don’t prove his made up claims. 
 

On 12/2/2025 at 9:15 PM, User said:

And yet here we are talking about the orders... ROFL How are you this dumb?

You’re the one saying absurdly that the fact that the military is carrying out the orders is evidence proving that Trump’s bogus claims are true otherwise the military would refuse to carry them out. 

 

On 12/2/2025 at 9:15 PM, User said:

What. Is. Your. Point? No one is killing whoever they feel like here. 

Circling back to kill survivors clinging to a raft because you were ordered to “kill them all” is a war crime. Striking an unarmed boat full of unarmed people who are NOT terrorists is a war crime, even if the president lies and claims they are. 
 

On 12/2/2025 at 9:15 PM, User said:

So... back to your families out on their sailboats, enjoying a picnic, conspiracy again...

You’re such a shameless liar, this is what you’ve reduced yourself to.  Aren’t you even a little bit embarrassed?

 

On 12/2/2025 at 9:15 PM, User said:

This is beyond dumb. So... how do drugs ever get here then - I guess your next big argument is that all drugs consumed in America were never smuggled here, they were all manufactured here. LOL

They don’t go from Venezuela to USA. Sure SOME drugs (if that’s even what is on those boats) might end up there but mostly what passes through Venezuela gets dispersed to other Caribbean and Latin countries before being further dispersed over the rest of the world. It’s a global market. Typical American thinks everything is about him. 
 

On 12/2/2025 at 9:15 PM, User said:

And... another string of lies. 

Nope just facts you can’t handle