User Posted October 8, 2025 Report Posted October 8, 2025 35 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said: Killing negotiators, though, that’s an unusual step no matter who the hostage takers are, isn’t it? To me it suggests the obvious - that there was little interest in negotiation. This is an overly simplistic reduction of events to call them negotiators, as if they were just some random Hamas dudes chosen for that purpose. This is the Hamas leadership hiding out in Qatar that is responsible for orchestrating the terrorism that started this on October 7th. Hamas had just taken responsibility for a terror attack on civilians at a bus stop and Israel was sending this as a message in response. You also ignore that negotiations have been going on for a long time now in various forms. Quote
carepov Posted October 8, 2025 Author Report Posted October 8, 2025 18 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said: So ethnic cleansing is your answer. What about the West Bank? The same idea too? Why stop in Palestine? Maybe there are other conflicts where you would like to see this efficient method of conflict resolution employed? It is ironic that you you bring up ethnic cleansing. What is one of the most ethnically diverse countries in the ME? Israel. If it was up to the Palestinian leaders (supportered by the majority) How many jews would be allowed to live securely within a Palestinian state? Zero. So whose aspirations include ethnic cleansing? Quote
Army Guy Posted October 8, 2025 Report Posted October 8, 2025 18 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said: Killing negotiators, though, that’s an unusual step no matter who the hostage takers are, isn’t it? To me it suggests the obvious - that there was little interest in negotiation. By killing negotiators I'm assuming you mean the attempt on those high ranking Hamas leaders...who enjoy the life of riley in some posh hotel being being waiting on hand and foot...while their people live in squalor....let me ask you this if the allied during world war II had the chance to kill Hitler and his staff do you think they would hesitate.... It has been going on for more than 2 years....and while Hamas leadership live in posh hotels, eat well and so on, do you think they are in a hurry to negotiate.....what do you think this bomb strike has done, and why are they now talking about surrender....could it be they think Israel will hunt them down regardless of what hotel they stay at... 2 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted October 8, 2025 Report Posted October 8, 2025 18 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said: So ethnic cleansing is your answer. What about the West Bank? The same idea too? Why stop in Palestine? Maybe there are other conflicts where you would like to see this efficient method of conflict resolution employed? Good question....no ethic cleansing is not the answer, but this has been going on since 1948, and i'm sure every attempt at peace has been tried, and failed....have you been to Israel, it is an armed camp, almost everyone is armed, no one is relaxed they can't afford to be , terrorism is a part of their lives...Israel moved completely out of Gaza gave them there own government and instead of building something out of the desert they decided to use their time and funding on terrorism...I was in Gaza in the late 80's it was an oasis, still dangerous for foreigners but very nice... Palestinian keep poking the bear, and now Israel is tired of all of it...now Gaza lays in ruins, Palestinian are now constantly on the move...caught up in a war they wanted....and some how people are surprised by Israelis actions...and some how they support Palestinians who have been doing all the poking...I worked in that region for 2 , 6 month periods....i seen Palestinians in action... 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted October 9, 2025 Report Posted October 9, 2025 Why aren't western pro-palestinian protesters supporting the peace talks? Low expectations and little faith would be my guess. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Army Guy Posted October 9, 2025 Report Posted October 9, 2025 15 hours ago, eyeball said: Why aren't western pro-palestinian protesters supporting the peace talks? Low expectations and little faith would be my guess. No they are afraid they will have to find something else to do with their time...whats your excuse... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted October 9, 2025 Report Posted October 9, 2025 22 minutes ago, Army Guy said: No they are afraid they will have to find something else to do with their time...whats your excuse... I'm at work. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
SpankyMcFarland Posted October 9, 2025 Report Posted October 9, 2025 If this deal does work then Trump deserves credit for it. 1 Quote ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
carepov Posted October 9, 2025 Author Report Posted October 9, 2025 20 hours ago, eyeball said: Why aren't western pro-palestinian protesters supporting the peace talks? Low expectations and little faith would be my guess. Are you saying that before the peace plan, during the mass protests, there were more expectations and greater faith in the potential of a peace deal? Quote
brett 1 Posted October 9, 2025 Report Posted October 9, 2025 in replying to the original post by carepov i would point out that all the points that carepov listed are all basically war crimes , in other words Israel has in essence in this peace agreement simply agreed to stop committing war crimes against the Palestinians. second regarding carepov comment on "ceasefire now " and "anti Israel protests" vs "make peace" ,,, Well our wonderful Canadian tv news media once again may not have done a great job as usual of informing Canadians about whats really happening in Palestine/Gaza. But while talks for ceasefire are being conducted Israel is continuously bombing and killing Palestinian civilians. And that could in part why protests against the Israeli "government" and its deplorable actions are being held by the public. its so easy for the double speak to get involved in this issue and un-intentionally or intentionally try to confuse the various groups. And there are alot of players or different groups involved in this turmoil that at times are mistakenly clumped into one group. While some groups do overlap others do not. To us westerners who are unfamiliar to the history and the region, all of them are sometimes mistakenly clumped together ... A (very) basic summary of the Jewish groups is below. - Israeli citizens , - Israeli government, - Jews around the world, - Zionist Jews, - ultra orthodox Jews Above is a basic grouping of those in relation to the Jewish religion some of which are in conflict with each other aswell. And of course there is the other group on the Palestinian side of the tragedy listed below. - the Palestinian civilians - Hamas, . For the most part protests in Israel by Israeli Jews are against the Israeli government., . Also too are most of the protests around the world by Jews and non-Jews against the Israeli government and its acts of genocide and war crimes. the protest in the west are not aimed at the people of Israel or Jews in that region. The protests are directed at the government and Zionists who endorse the governments actions and war crimes... Hitler and his nazi government party led the German people down a dark path of lies and false promises that brought decades of disgrace to the people of Germany, And many people believe that Netanyahu and his Zionist "government" is not only doing the same thing to the people of Israel but that his actions will also drag Jews around the world down that same dark path towards disgrace too ,, thats why many Jews around the world outside of Israel protest using the slogan "not in our name". They dont agree with the actions of the Israeli government. For those who dont understand the history of Palestine and Israel its hard to have a true understanding of why Palestinians have so much mistrust of so called "peace talks" . For a Palestinian having the united states broker peace talks between them and Israel, is like having a wolf broker peace talks between the rabbit and the fox at dinner time, the rabbit being Palestine... Especially since trump has said repeatedly he wants their land to make a new french Reviera, and Netanyahu has also made claims of taking all the land too .,, For those who want to understand more about the history of the region might i suggest ilan pappe's lectures on youtube or his books .. he is a Jewish professor who grew up and studied in Israel. He gives great interesting not dry lectures on his field of study which is the history of Israel. also the show called "Alternative Radio" has many lectures by pappe and chomsky and others on the history of the conflict and region .. you can listen to them at alternativeradio.org https://www.alternativeradio.org/ ilan pappe - Ten Myths about Israel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvR8ZkHu3vw Gabor Mate and Chris Hedges - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnl49IWqIcY Lets pray or hope this tragedy ends and true peace comes to all in that region. . B. . Quote
eyeball Posted October 9, 2025 Report Posted October 9, 2025 56 minutes ago, carepov said: Are you saying that before the peace plan, during the mass protests, there were more expectations and greater faith in the potential of a peace deal? Certainly not from me. I'm still as certain the entire region is doomed. If it was secular lefties in charge of things I might feel different. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
carepov Posted October 10, 2025 Author Report Posted October 10, 2025 2 hours ago, brett 1 said: in replying to the original post by carepov i would point out that all the points that carepov listed are all basically war crimes , in other words Israel has in essence in this peace agreement simply agreed to stop committing war crimes against the Palestinians. second regarding carepov comment on "ceasefire now " and "anti Israel protests" vs "make peace" ,,, Well our wonderful Canadian tv news media once again may not have done a great job as usual of informing Canadians about whats really happening in Palestine/Gaza. But while talks for ceasefire are being conducted Israel is continuously bombing and killing Palestinian civilians. And that could in part why protests against the Israeli "government" and its deplorable actions are being held by the public. its so easy for the double speak to get involved in this issue and un-intentionally or intentionally try to confuse the various groups. And there are alot of players or different groups involved in this turmoil that at times are mistakenly clumped into one group. While some groups do overlap others do not. To us westerners who are unfamiliar to the history and the region, all of them are sometimes mistakenly clumped together ... A (very) basic summary of the Jewish groups is below. - Israeli citizens , - Israeli government, - Jews around the world, - Zionist Jews, - ultra orthodox Jews Above is a basic grouping of those in relation to the Jewish religion some of which are in conflict with each other aswell. And of course there is the other group on the Palestinian side of the tragedy listed below. - the Palestinian civilians - Hamas, . For the most part protests in Israel by Israeli Jews are against the Israeli government., . Also too are most of the protests around the world by Jews and non-Jews against the Israeli government and its acts of genocide and war crimes. the protest in the west are not aimed at the people of Israel or Jews in that region. The protests are directed at the government and Zionists who endorse the governments actions and war crimes... Hitler and his nazi government party led the German people down a dark path of lies and false promises that brought decades of disgrace to the people of Germany, And many people believe that Netanyahu and his Zionist "government" is not only doing the same thing to the people of Israel but that his actions will also drag Jews around the world down that same dark path towards disgrace too ,, thats why many Jews around the world outside of Israel protest using the slogan "not in our name". They dont agree with the actions of the Israeli government. For those who dont understand the history of Palestine and Israel its hard to have a true understanding of why Palestinians have so much mistrust of so called "peace talks" . For a Palestinian having the united states broker peace talks between them and Israel, is like having a wolf broker peace talks between the rabbit and the fox at dinner time, the rabbit being Palestine... Especially since trump has said repeatedly he wants their land to make a new french Reviera, and Netanyahu has also made claims of taking all the land too .,, For those who want to understand more about the history of the region might i suggest ilan pappe's lectures on youtube or his books .. he is a Jewish professor who grew up and studied in Israel. He gives great interesting not dry lectures on his field of study which is the history of Israel. also the show called "Alternative Radio" has many lectures by pappe and chomsky and others on the history of the conflict and region .. you can listen to them at alternativeradio.org https://www.alternativeradio.org/ ilan pappe - Ten Myths about Israel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvR8ZkHu3vw Gabor Mate and Chris Hedges - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnl49IWqIcY Lets pray or hope this tragedy ends and true peace comes to all in that region. . B. . You should read Benny Morris instead: https://newrepublic.com/article/85344/ilan-pappe-sloppy-dishonest-historian Quote
brett 1 Posted October 10, 2025 Report Posted October 10, 2025 37 minutes ago, carepov said: You should read Benny Morris instead: https://newrepublic.com/article/85344/ilan-pappe-sloppy-dishonest-historian i have listened to Benny's lectures, aswell as his criticism of pappe . And i heard pappe's response to Benny's criticism too , and it was actually benny's criticism that drove me to seek out and listen to many others as well to try to get a broader scope of the situation with more points of view on the matter,, i still think pappe's work stands up well along side many other historians . Pappe's response to Morris's critisism - https://www.hnn.us/article/benny-morriss-lies-about-my-book Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted October 10, 2025 Report Posted October 10, 2025 So far so good with the peace deal. It looks like the exchange will happen. 1 Quote ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
eyeball Posted October 11, 2025 Report Posted October 11, 2025 On 10/7/2025 at 4:57 AM, Michael Hardner said: I'm not as interested in the protests, which are organized by interest groups who have their own goals. Basically, they just want to maximize outcomes in their favour. I'm more interested in the true centrist zeitgeist. Or liberals even. They are very quiet on this, and my assumption is it's because: - they are cautiously optimistic - they are pessimistic Or ahu - they are hoping the US administration doesn't secure a political win with this agreement I really hope it's not the last one, but it may well be. Apparently it's much the same deal Biden proposed and Trump's contribution appears to have mostly involved dusting it off and arm twisting and coercing Netanyahu and regional interests into buying it. A good cop bad cop thing maybe? If that's true Trump should probably share the Nobel with Biden. 1 Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
carepov Posted October 11, 2025 Author Report Posted October 11, 2025 On 10/9/2025 at 9:51 PM, brett 1 said: i have listened to Benny's lectures, aswell as his criticism of pappe . And i heard pappe's response to Benny's criticism too , and it was actually benny's criticism that drove me to seek out and listen to many others as well to try to get a broader scope of the situation with more points of view on the matter,, i still think pappe's work stands up well along side many other historians . Pappe's response to Morris's critisism - https://www.hnn.us/article/benny-morriss-lies-about-my-book I'm curious, does Pappe ever accurately describe acts of Arab/Palestinian violence? Quote
carepov Posted October 20, 2025 Author Report Posted October 20, 2025 (edited) So what happened to "Ceasefire Now"? Why are western protests still anti-israel and not pro-peace? The mask is off. There is no more pretense about stopping the suffering/bombing/starvation/genocide of gazan civilians. Anyone now protesting and chanting "free free Palestine" and from "from the river to the sea.." is either a brainwashed ****** [imbicile/simpleton] or a blatant anti-semite that wishes for the destruction of Israel. In what camp would you put Greta Thumberg? Edited October 20, 2025 by carepov Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted October 29, 2025 Report Posted October 29, 2025 On 10/8/2025 at 7:07 PM, carepov said: It is ironic that you you bring up ethnic cleansing. What is one of the most ethnically diverse countries in the ME? Israel. If it was up to the Palestinian leaders (supportered by the majority) How many jews would be allowed to live securely within a Palestinian state? Zero. So whose aspirations include ethnic cleansing? What is happening in the West Bank? I see constant theft. At the moment Netanyahu seems keen on another war. The Americans are trying to restrain him and his loony friends. Good luck with that. Quote ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
carepov Posted October 31, 2025 Author Report Posted October 31, 2025 On 10/29/2025 at 12:58 AM, SpankyMcFarland said: What is happening in the West Bank? I see constant theft. At the moment Netanyahu seems keen on another war. The Americans are trying to restrain him and his loony friends. Good luck with that. Am I correct that you are also in favour of ethnically cleansing the West Bank of all Jews? Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted October 31, 2025 Report Posted October 31, 2025 (edited) 1 minute ago, carepov said: Am I correct that you are also in favour of ethnically cleansing the West Bank of all Jews? I am in favour of a Palestinian state there. There could be some land concessions near the Israeli border but nothing like the current situation. Edited October 31, 2025 by SpankyMcFarland Quote ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
carepov Posted October 31, 2025 Author Report Posted October 31, 2025 Just now, SpankyMcFarland said: I am in favour of a Palestinian state there. How many jews would be allowed to live in such a state? Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted October 31, 2025 Report Posted October 31, 2025 (edited) 4 minutes ago, carepov said: How many jews would be allowed to live in such a state? Given the animosity between you I fear not too many would be able to live there at first. One sees the same problem in many tribal wars. That’s no excuse for stealing though. Edited October 31, 2025 by SpankyMcFarland Quote ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
carepov Posted October 31, 2025 Author Report Posted October 31, 2025 (edited) 29 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said: Given the animosity between you I fear not too many would be able to live there at first. One sees the same problem in many tribal wars. That’s no excuse for stealing though. Well somehow 2 million Arabs can live peacefully in Israel alongside 7 million jews. Isn't strange that even someone like you that is otherwise so intelligent and moral is advocating for ethnic cleansing? Edited October 31, 2025 by carepov Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted November 1, 2025 Report Posted November 1, 2025 (edited) On 10/31/2025 at 1:48 AM, carepov said: Well somehow 2 million Arabs can live peacefully in Israel alongside 7 million jews. Isn't strange that even someone like you that is otherwise so intelligent and moral is advocating for ethnic cleansing? Well now, more or less peacefully and they do face discrimination as I am sure you know more about than I do. Saying they live peacefully is a bit of a tell there. Many Palestinian citizens of Israel are not happy with how they are treated. https://imeu.org/resources/palestine-101/fact-sheet-palestinian-citizens-of-israel/229 Edited November 1, 2025 by SpankyMcFarland Quote ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
User Posted November 1, 2025 Report Posted November 1, 2025 4 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said: Well now, more or less peacefully and they do face discrimination as I am sure you know more about than I do. Saying they live peacefully is a bit of a tell there. Many Palestinian citizens of Israel are not happy with how they are treated. https://imeu.org/resources/palestine-101/fact-sheet-palestinian-citizens-of-israel/229 Stuff like this is a joke. Literally the very first law on their list of discriminatory laws says a terrorist who gets paid for their terrorism loses their citizenship or residency. ROFL I am not even wasting my time going through the rest of this crap when that is the first on the list. Quote
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