Neo-Liberalism was a failure

[paxamericana]

The idea that by intergrating the world economies and letting companies establish production at lowest cost, would lift all economies. That didn't happen, what happen was that it pitted the middle class workers against the world's poorest class. The middle class got left behind. The few areas that benefitted were coastal cities that participated in international trade, be it finance or logistics or tech. The credentialed elites took on cultural values like gays and trans right when those issue were tone deaf to a blue collar man who just wanted a living wage. This was the most important issue that lead to Donald Trump's victory,the blue collar middle class does not want handouts, they want a decent paycheck. So while redistribution of wealth may sound like a luxury belief to the the credentialed elites, its not what the self-respecting the middle class worker want. 

[Michael Hardner]

"Redistribution of wealth" 🤔

 

Now where have I heard that before?

 

Listen, I agree with a lot of the post, maybe most of it.  But it did indeed constitute a boon for the economy.

 

You can look at 100s of millions in impoverished countries that were elevated to a place where they couldn't have reached otherwise.

 

What did happen was that the trickle down effect didn't work for manufacturing workers and others who had won middle class lifestyles in the early/mid 20th century.

 

I'm also not sure whether I would draw a line between that group and Trump voters. Maybe we can, but the factory jobs were already long gone by 2016.  

I'm a lot more convinced that the economy gave him the victory in 2024.

[paxamericana]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

"Redistribution of wealth" 🤔

 

aka wellfare. Not that its entirely a bad thing on moral grounds but any able bodied person should be expected to work and earn a living, to the degree that handouts are not necessary. MAGA is not anti wellfare, it's pro working class.

TDS that turned the left into rabid animals is just a distraction. 

Edited September 3, 2025 by paxamericana

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, paxamericana said:

1. any able bodied person should be expected to work and earn a living, to the degree that handouts are not necessary.

 

2. MAGA is not anti wellfare, it's pro working class.

3. TDS that turned the left into rabid animals is just a distraction. 

1. 2. Agreed.

3. My Doctor diagnosed me with this. I was prescribed chair yoga, bubble tea and a male tampon.

[herbie]

Nah it's people's fault. We stood there with our thumbs up our ass and let the middle class slip away without really noticing. Unions busted, bought the trickle down BS, had a couple bubbles that provided some hope and saw them pop. Only too late we noticed all the power and wealth concentrate into the fewer and fewer and still, we just whine about it. OK maybe we whine louder.

And as long as we buy this 'wealth distribution' crap for the newspeak connotation of evil use taxes, it will get worse. It's a slogan those wealthy and powerful use to fool the ignorant masses into cutting taxes on the wealthy and delivering less to the have nots.

[paxamericana]

On 9/3/2025 at 11:09 PM, herbie said:

Nah it's people's fault. We stood there with our thumbs up our ass and let the middle class slip away without really noticing. Unions busted, bought the trickle down BS, had a couple bubbles that provided some hope and saw them pop. Only too late we noticed all the power and wealth concentrate into the fewer and fewer and still, we just whine about it. OK maybe we whine louder.

And as long as we buy this 'wealth distribution' crap for the newspeak connotation of evil use taxes, it will get worse. It's a slogan those wealthy and powerful use to fool the ignorant masses into cutting taxes on the wealthy and delivering less to the have nots.

I have a slightly different take. It's mostly driven by Automation and the people who own said automation technology get more of the economic pie hence leading to the increased wealth accumulation for a few people, the broligarch like Jensen, Bezos, Elon, Zuck etc. Because the higher value add is not done by human labor, it's the technology. 

Edited September 5, 2025 by paxamericana

[eyeball]

On 9/3/2025 at 9:09 PM, herbie said:

Only too late we noticed all the power and wealth concentrate into the fewer and fewer and still, we just whine about it. OK maybe we whine louder.

I don't know, it seems to me millions of conservatives have celebrated this forever.

On 9/3/2025 at 9:09 PM, herbie said:

And as long as we buy this 'wealth distribution' crap for the newspeak connotation of evil use taxes, it will get worse. It's a slogan those wealthy and powerful use to fool the ignorant masses into cutting taxes on the wealthy and delivering less to the have nots.

I'm pretty sure its the distribution of power that's the real issue but right-wingers seem to have the same hard-on for strongmen in government as they do for their betters in the economy.

Edited September 8, 2025 by eyeball

[Michael Hardner]

On 9/4/2025 at 12:09 AM, herbie said:

Nah it's people's fault. We stood there with our thumbs up our ass and let the middle class slip away without really noticing.

I noticed.  Here's a graph.  Trickle-Down economics was launched as a way to attract investors back to Western markets.  It worked in some ways but not for everyone.

https://www.chartbookofeconomicinequality.com/inequality-by-country/usa/

[herbie]

We've returned to the pre-depression era where wealth = power and Conservatives have always stood for that. 

[Nationalist]

Neoliberalism has indeed been a flop. But while we argue about wealth redistribution, welfare and such, IMO the real crime was globalism and the siphoning of middle-class jobs to India, China and anywhere else where labor was cheap. 

We gave our wealth away for cheap-ass, poorly made crap at Wallymart.

Edited October 5, 2025 by Nationalist

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

We gave our wealth away for cheap-ass, poorly made crap at Wallymart.

I always found that to be a bad argument, after all iPhones come from China along with millions of other things.

NeoLiberalism has been a great win for investors.

[Nationalist]

51 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I always found that to be a bad argument, after all iPhones come from China along with millions of other things.

NeoLiberalism has been a great win for investors.

iPhones didn't come from China. They were originally manufactured in Taiwan and assembled in China.

IMO...the iPhone is an over priced piece of crap.

The outsourcing was a bad decision...also IMO. It stole potential middle-class jobs from Americans.

I will never be able to support the practice of offshore manufacturing. The practice did incredible damage to the middle-class. 

It is quite hypocritical to argue for any sort of wealth redistribution, while supporting this...frankly unpatriotic practice.

[Michael Hardner]

4 hours ago, Nationalist said:

1. iPhones didn't come from China. They were originally manufactured in Taiwan and assembled in China.

2. IMO...the iPhone is an over priced piece of crap.

3. The outsourcing was a bad decision... also IMO. It stole potential middle-class jobs from Americans.

4. I will never be able to support the practice of offshore manufacturing. The practice did incredible damage to the middle-class. 

5. It is quite hypocritical to argue for any sort of wealth redistribution, while supporting this...frankly unpatriotic practice.

1. Well, I was addressing your "junk comes from China" assertion.  You're right they're assembled there, and parts come from Taiwan and all over.  I wouldn't have assumed you were saying "junk comes from China but not at all from Vietnam, Taiwan...".   The 'poorly made crap' you speak of comes from all those places too, as does well-made stuff.

The main point being "we gave away our wealth"..>

As I pointed out, WE didn't.  Investors won big.

2.  Agreed.  I have only used one when provided by my work.

3.  Well the two parts of this contradict each other.  If it was a "bad" decision then those jobs would have come back.  The folks who made the decision got cheaper labour, therefore... a "good" decision from their POV.

4.  We all know this.

5.  Why is it hypocritical ?  It's a response to wealth being distributed to the top beneficiaries of these policies.  I don't see hypocrisy in that.