Cornservative Public Health

[LinkSoul60]

12 minutes ago, Legato said:

If?

 

"if'... I could point out 'convincing' if it's a play on words.

[Legato]

11 hours ago, LinkSoul60 said:

"if'... I could point out 'convincing' if it's a play on words.

Sorry, convincing is not something you excel at.

[LinkSoul60]

3 minutes ago, Legato said:

Sorry, convincing is not something you excel at.

'If' covid didn't become political virus the health concerns would be more 'convincing' to some.

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, LinkSoul60 said:

'If' covid didn't become political virus the health concerns would be more 'convincing' to some.

Justin trudeau is the one who MADE it a political virus. Ran his entire campaign on that. Called anyone who had concerns about the vaccine a 'bigot' and 'misogynist' and a waste of space and said people would have to decide if such people should be 'tolerated' in our country.  

But the biggest problem is that the gov'ts in general did not acknowledge the concerns about the vaccines and pretended they didn't exist. That always puts people's guard up.  Had the gov't been more honest, "hey, we don't know everything about this but we want you to take it because the evidence we have is the risks outweight the rewards but we'll leave it up to you", then people would have been more relaxed. 

The other problem is many of the naysayers were right.  The data is in from a number of studies, several which were discussed on this board. younger people, especially healthy men under 40, were at substantially higher risks of harm from the vaccine than they were from catching covid. So there really WERE unknown risks. 

The research was what it was, it was not complete and couldn't be in the timeframes involved.  But that's what the gov't should have said.  And people should have made their own decisions. 

 

[Army Guy]

21 hours ago, LinkSoul60 said:

Because some people are compromised and can't be vaccinated.  That could be elderly, young with underlying health issues, cancer patients, etc.  I had no problem whatsoever in mandating the vaccine for health care workers and those in contact with the compromised.  We've been through this.... it's people choice to get vaccinated or not but if you choose not to then you don't have an automatic right to work in an environment that could make you a risk to others.  The government did what they thought best at time of knowing not nearly what they know now.  I also understand that a very small percentage of people have not reacted well to a vaccination which obviously sucks.  Everyone has choice though....

Then those that were compromised should have stayed home.. i thought that would have been common sense...Mandating vaccinations for health care workers because there are no other jobs they can do with out coming into contact with the compromised right, That we as a collective don't care if health care workers have reactions to the vaccines, or put their own health in jeopardy, because that is part of their job right....that's what your saying...

Yes everyone has a choice, take the shot or find other work...easy to say if you just  started a job, or have your time in for a pension...you call it a choice, but really there is not one...try and find a job during the pandemonic with out a vaccination...and so what if your concerned with the adverse effects of the shot....that's what the government was saying...

[LinkSoul60]

16 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Then those that were compromised should have stayed home.. i thought that would have been common sense...

I'd think commons sense would be able to figure this out....   Many elderly that are compromised do stay at home.... in their senior living or long term care homes. Many cancer and other compromised patients stay in the hospital.  I'm sure they'd love to be home, but their health is compromised.

16 hours ago, Army Guy said:

That we as a collective don't care if health care workers have reactions to the vaccines, or put their own health in jeopardy, because that is part of their job right....that's what your saying...

If you believe the last published data (I could quickly find) of 0.045% having non-serious complications and 0.011% having serious complications, then sure, they're in jeopardy.  

16 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Yes everyone has a choice, take the shot or find other work...

Correct.  It's your choice to get vaccinated or not.  It's not your choice to potentially expose the virus to those who are vulnerable.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, LinkSoul60 said:

I'd think commons sense would be able to figure this out....   Many elderly that are compromised do stay at home.... in their senior living or long term care homes. Many cancer and other compromised patients stay in the hospital.  I'm sure they'd love to be home, but their health is compromised.

If you believe the last published data (I could quickly find) of 0.045% having non-serious complications and 0.011% having serious complications, then sure, they're in jeopardy.  

Correct.  It's your choice to get vaccinated or not.  It's not your choice to potentially expose the virus to those who are vulnerable.

It's the vulnerable choice not to be exposed by staying out of the way if that's what they want to do.

And certainly after the vaccines were available and we're supposed to solve all the problems it really had no right to complain. They can take the vaccine and there they go, they're protected

And if the government truly felt that people who weren't getting tested or didn't have the vaccine should stay at home and at the very least they should have provided them with the WCB or unemployment insurance that those people have been paying for in case they were laid off. Taking that away from them is tantamount to forcing someone to take the vaccine under coercion.

What happened was no different at all then when doctors and medical staff pressured the hell out of first nations women to get an abortion and their tubes tied so they couldn't have children because they felt it was best. Most decent people recognize that that was wrong, most decent people would recognize that forcing people to take a vaccine where the effects were not known was morally reprehensible

[Army Guy]

On 8/28/2025 at 12:24 PM, LinkSoul60 said:

I'd think commons sense would be able to figure this out....   Many elderly that are compromised do stay at home.... in their senior living or long term care homes. Many cancer and other compromised patients stay in the hospital.  I'm sure they'd love to be home, but their health is compromised.

If you believe the last published data (I could quickly find) of 0.045% having non-serious complications and 0.011% having serious complications, then sure, they're in jeopardy.  

Correct.  It's your choice to get vaccinated or not.  It's not your choice to potentially expose the virus to those who are vulnerable.

Long term care home were death traps as we seen in Quebec and Ontario, and the vaccine did not protect them as it was advertised...My question was could have those health care workers not been employed in areas where they would not pose a threat to others...

I think your stats are slewed, out of our Bn 800 members, 4 had severe reactions to vaccines to the point they were hospitalized, these are very fit people , which after the shot could not even do basic PT training, could barely walk a couple 100 feet with out need to stop for a break...these soldiers are now out of the military....on the base there was a 1/2 dozen of others that developed other systems... 

Those choices you talk about are pretty limited, you make it seem it would be like going to the candy store and deciding what type of candy you want....when the reality of the time was you've thrown away a career, how do you provide for your family, pay the bills , and then find a job that does not require you to be vaccinated, which at the time was slim pickings...So it was take the shot of go on welfare...some choice...

according to you those that are compromised are already in their homes....the rest are vaccinated so who are you exposing others that are not vaccinated who cares....shit people on here wanted them sent to camps, or arrested sent to prisons...

[herbie]

All this talk strays from the issue. BC just had a major scandal over not wanting to pay for a million dollar a shot experimental medecine and caved on it.
Here's a non-medical professional telling Albertans they won't pay for an Internationally recognized common treatment. Cough up $100 old lady with COPD!
Think how much they could "save" charging for every kid's MMR shot.

Something entirely despicable, remember how the UCP openly discussed how much they'd save letting nurses go once Covid went away. Bean counting penny pinching above planning for the future.

[LinkSoul60]

8 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Long term care home were death traps as we seen in Quebec and Ontario, and the vaccine did not protect them as it was advertised...My question was could have those health care workers not been employed in areas where they would not pose a threat to others...

I think your stats are slewed, out of our Bn 800 members, 4 had severe reactions to vaccines to the point they were hospitalized, these are very fit people , which after the shot could not even do basic PT training, could barely walk a couple 100 feet with out need to stop for a break...these soldiers are now out of the military....on the base there was a 1/2 dozen of others that developed other systems... 

Those choices you talk about are pretty limited, you make it seem it would be like going to the candy store and deciding what type of candy you want....when the reality of the time was you've thrown away a career, how do you provide for your family, pay the bills , and then find a job that does not require you to be vaccinated, which at the time was slim pickings...So it was take the shot of go on welfare...some choice...

according to you those that are compromised are already in their homes....the rest are vaccinated so who are you exposing others that are not vaccinated who cares....shit people on here wanted them sent to camps, or arrested sent to prisons...

My stats are from Government of Canada health site.  I get your buddy's had an adverse affect but that's like saying I got the flu and my buddy didn't so the odds are 50% you'll get it. Stats don't work that way.  

Everyone had a choice and if you chose to struggle paying bills because of your vaccine beliefs, that was your choice. 

Edited August 31, 2025 by LinkSoul60

[Army Guy]

15 hours ago, LinkSoul60 said:

My stats are from Government of Canada health site.  I get your buddy's had an adverse affect but that's like saying I got the flu and my buddy didn't so the odds are 50% you'll get it. Stats don't work that way.  

Everyone had a choice and if you chose to struggle paying bills because of your vaccine beliefs, that was your choice. 

And that means what exactly, that they cant be wrong, I've talked to other units that they said they had about the same amount of people that had problems...I don't have any numbers of civilians that had problems, but just these local numbers seem to show your percentages are not really reflecting those that have been seen on the ground...These drugs were not fully tested, we were basically told take them, or risk consequences....and if you have any side effects to bad, your one of the few...

Sure if you want to scrub all emotion from it Yes your right....it was a choice , not much of one but yes a choice....Risk your health and your ability to support your family forever if you had a adverse reaction, or throw away your job, risk not finding one or finding one that does not have a mandate which at the time was next to zero....not much of a choice... 

[suds]

20 hours ago, herbie said:

Here's a non-medical professional telling Albertans they won't pay for an Internationally recognized common treatment. Cough up $100 old lady with COPD!

The old lady with COPD would be exempt from the $100 charge.....

"Those exempt from paying the $100 fee include health-care workers; residents of continuing-care homes and senior living accommodations; home-care clients; individuals with underlying medical conditions and compromised immune systems; individuals experiencing homelessness; and seniors (65 and older) who receive the Alberta Seniors Benefit."

401,000 doses wasted at a cost of $44.1 million is a bit of a gut punch. Waste is always a prime concern especially in healthcare where dollars are stretched to the limit. Taking into account the short shelf life of covid vaccine, and not having at least fairly accurate figures of the number of people who want to get vaccinated.... are there no other avenues to try in eliminating much of that waste? I can think of a few but they themselves involve cost.

Edited August 31, 2025 by suds

[herbie]

Oh FFS they're charging for a common vaccine, g ot their foot in the door towards charging for other services and you're defending it ?

Gonna tell us it was a good decision not to include dental care on Day One next?

[LinkSoul60]

20 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Sure if you want to scrub all emotion from it Yes your right....it was a choice

You get it now.  Decisions are made using facts, not emotion.

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, LinkSoul60 said:

You get it now.  Decisions are made using facts, not emotion.

Sorry but that's false.  The courts have long since ruled that if you're making a choice under duress it's coercion, not a choice. 

If i point a gun at your head and say "give me your wallet or die",  yes it's true that TECHNICALLY you have a choice. But not really. 

You can't bring yourself to be honest about that tho can you. You insist that it's still a choice even if people feel threatened or their livelyhood is at risk. 

 

[Army Guy]

6 hours ago, LinkSoul60 said:

You get it now.  Decisions are made using facts, not emotion.

Yes the facts were 99 % of our soldiers would risk their Live's and health to keep their jobs, to those that did have adverse effects well they were quietly released never to be heard from again...the few that refused to take the Vaccine were treated like traitors, pushed out of their jobs or abused until they quit,  those are the facts...

But then again the Government did not have all the facts regarding these drugs they were forcing upon people, nor did they care....as they have done many times before....

[LinkSoul60]

35 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Yes the facts were 99 % of our soldiers would risk their Live's and health to keep their jobs, to those that did have adverse effects well they were quietly released never to be heard from again...the few that refused to take the Vaccine were treated like traitors, pushed out of their jobs or abused until they quit,  those are the facts...

But then again the Government did not have all the facts regarding these drugs they were forcing upon people, nor did they care....as they have done many times before....

You struggle with stats...  If 99% of people were at risk of their lives and health with the covid vaccines then there would be no covid vaccines.  It's tilted further to the other way with 0.056% recorded as adverse, and 0.011% as serious.  And no, they weren't traitors for not getting vaccinated and risking their jobs, they were just foolish.  

Edited September 1, 2025 by LinkSoul60

[Army Guy]

23 hours ago, LinkSoul60 said:

You struggle with stats...  If 99% of people were at risk of their lives and health with the covid vaccines then there would be no covid vaccines.  It's tilted further to the other way with 0.056% recorded as adverse, and 0.011% as serious.  And no, they weren't traitors for not getting vaccinated and risking their jobs, they were just foolish.  

I'm don't  struggling with stats, I'm saying your stats do not reflect what happened at CFB Gagetown or CFB Petawawa, were out of the 800 soldiers in one unit there were 4 adverse cases, and on the base 6 more, out of 7000 total...same as CFB Petawawa were the base had 6 cases total of adverse conditions....I'm not tracking any other bases, but odds are they each had some cases as well,,, Which does not reflect your stats,...And in some cases these soldiers went from perfectly healthy, able to run 10 km in under 45 mins, to being gassed after walking a few hundred meters, and would later be released with a certificate from the CDS thanks for coming out....And those soldiers that did not take the shot because of the high rate of adverse effect were released or treated very badly until they quit... 

You should research what was posted on this forum, traitors was the mild version, locked up in camps was another , and on the streets at the time, was just as bad even the PM got into the name calling... 

[LinkSoul60]

28 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

I'm don't  struggling with stats, I'm saying your stats do not reflect what happened at CFB Gagetown or CFB Petawawa, were out of the 800 soldiers in one unit there were 4 adverse cases, and on the base 6 more, out of 7000 total...same as CFB Petawawa were the base had 6 cases total of adverse conditions....I'm not tracking any other bases, but odds are they each had some cases as well,,, Which does not reflect your stats,...And in some cases these soldiers went from perfectly healthy, able to run 10 km in under 45 mins, to being gassed after walking a few hundred meters, and would later be released with a certificate from the CDS thanks for coming out....And those soldiers that did not take the shot because of the high rate of adverse effect were released or treated very badly until they quit... 

You should research what was posted on this forum, traitors was the mild version, locked up in camps was another , and on the streets at the time, was just as bad even the PM got into the name calling... 

No, I don't know what happened at those bases but the stats I provided would include those cases.  Minimally small and slightly higher than one tenth of one percent having 'serious' reactions.  That said, those soldiers did which is unfortunate for them.

No need to read this forum for any research....  Assuming the same people who are here today were here during covid I could probably guess with pretty good accuracy who was anti-vaccine.  It became and continues to be a political virus but the political leanings of some didn't accept that because someone started the narrative of it being a hoax....albeit one that killed millions of people.

[Army Guy]

17 hours ago, LinkSoul60 said:

No, I don't know what happened at those bases but the stats I provided would include those cases.  Minimally small and slightly higher than one tenth of one percent having 'serious' reactions.  That said, those soldiers did which is unfortunate for them.

No need to read this forum for any research....  Assuming the same people who are here today were here during covid I could probably guess with pretty good accuracy who was anti-vaccine.  It became and continues to be a political virus but the political leanings of some didn't accept that because someone started the narrative of it being a hoax....albeit one that killed millions of people.

Nobody knows for sure , including myself , just from where im siting my facts don't match your stats...And it was one of the reasons why so many soldiers balked at getting the shot, once you see first hand a very fit soldier reduced to barely walking , it makes that choice we have been talking about extremely hard, be fired and be extremely unemployable, or risk everything health, career, and there is no workmen's comp for soldiers... 

Yes there are wingnuts on both sides of the fence, Covid was pretty divisive and it set all camps into combat mode, with calls to put unvaccinated into camps, arresting them , it got pretty messy...i personally di not really have a choice my career and my health dictated i get the shot, but im also a big fan of having the right to choose without the fan fare it caused.

[LinkSoul60]

8 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Nobody knows for sure , including myself , just from where im siting my facts don't match your stats...And it was one of the reasons why so many soldiers balked at getting the shot, once you see first hand a very fit soldier reduced to barely walking , it makes that choice we have been talking about extremely hard, be fired and be extremely unemployable, or risk everything health, career, and there is no workmen's comp for soldiers... 

Yes there are wingnuts on both sides of the fence, Covid was pretty divisive and it set all camps into combat mode, with calls to put unvaccinated into camps, arresting them , it got pretty messy...i personally di not really have a choice my career and my health dictated i get the shot, but im also a big fan of having the right to choose without the fan fare it caused.

I'll give you that AG.... Covid was pretty divisive, and still is.  I know we're on different sides of the fence with this one but it's too bad and unfortunate it became more a political virus because of how it interacted with jobs and the economy.