Why Are We Doing This U.S. Vs. Canada Thing?

[Zeitgeist]

6 hours ago, paxamericana said:

That would mean picking up half a dozen poor Mississippi (our poorest state, whose GDP is ironically higher than Canada's). I don't think the math would work out in America's interest at least in the short term. Long term probably be okay.

Our biggest interest would be defending the Artic. Which you canucks simply lack the ability to defend. There's no need to pay for administering these provinces since we already have a military alliance outside of NATO to do just that (NORAD). It would take someone with a long term strategic vision and ability to convince the American public that a larger country is necessary for our collective interest, which truthfully it is. 

You know as well as I do that’s mostly because of exchange rate.  You have to look at purchasing power and costs.  Under Harper Canadians became wealthier than Americans when our dollar was worth close to $1.15 US.

We already have a joint Arctic defence program through NORAD.  Canada now also has major military purchases in the pipeline, though we should be buying or building nuclear subs as well.  Our focus has been on Air Force aircraft and some naval ships and ice breakers.  

 

[paxamericana]

13 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

We already have a joint Arctic defence program through NORAD.  Canada now also has major military purchases in the pipeline, though we should be buying or building nuclear subs as well.  Our focus has been on Air Force aircraft and some naval ships and ice breakers.  

I think as a start, a Joint base with Canadian millitary in the artic, BC and Newfoundland would satisfy America's security ambition. No need conquer you all at that point. From there we could depen economic ties with lowering of economic barriers and finaly fully intergrating . Same deal for the Danes and Greenland I should say. 

[CdnFox]

42 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

I think as a start, a Joint base with Canadian millitary in the artic, BC and Newfoundland would satisfy America's security ambition. No need conquer you all at that point. From there we could depen economic ties with lowering of economic barriers and finaly fully intergrating . Same deal for the Danes and Greenland I should say. 

No thanks. If the Russians come after you all we have to do is duck as the missiles go overhead and we're fine. If the Russians come after us you absolutely have to intervene otherwise the Russians will be on your border

Either way we get what we want and America can suck it  

[paxamericana]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

No thanks. If the Russians come after you all we have to do is duck as the missiles go overhead and we're fine. If the Russians come after us you absolutely have to intervene otherwise the Russians will be on your border

Either way we get what we want and America can suck it  

That's how it's going to be huh? Sounds like music to me. After we're done with the Russian and Chinese, guess where we gota go next. 

Edited August 10, 2025 by paxamericana

[CdnFox]

Just now, paxamericana said:

That's how it's going to be huh? Sounds like music to me. After we're done with the Russian and Chinese, guess where we gota go next. 

Begging to us for the resourses and trade to rebuild your completely depleted economy and war torn lands  

We'll make you a nice poutine while you wait   

[Venandi]

31 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

Sounds like music to me. After we're done with the Russian and Chinese, guess where we gota go next. 

All that and a bag of cheezies eh?

I bet you think coin operations refer to the vending machine you got them from... as opposed to how you'll be spending your summer vacations.

Just wipe your greasy orange fingers on your face, that way you'll be easy to find and you'll look just like the guy who sent ya.  

Edited August 10, 2025 by Venandi

[paxamericana]

16 hours ago, CdnFox said:

We'll make you a nice poutine while you wait   

Oh it won't be long, America is already at war. While it's not publicly admitted,  we're purposely stringing along the Russians in Ukraine. See the longer we let them go through their meat grinder, the faster we get to their national collapse. Before the war we were projecting them to collapse around the 2080s, now closer 2030-2040. America is purposely prolonging the war for this exact reason. We're not going to let Ukraine win nor will Russia be able to completely conquer Ukraine. 

China has a similar timeline but for different reasons. 50 years of one child policy and rapid industrialization has hollowed out their country. They are past the point of theoretical replacement and so are the Russian. This is before you consider the possibility of a war with Taiwan where we choke off Chinese energy and food import. And we're building out a indo pacific version of NATO to do precisely that, surround China. 

This is World War 3, America just makes it look really really easy, we're crushing our enemies as you prepare your meal all without us firing a shot. Steam rolling Canada is child's play.

Edited August 10, 2025 by paxamericana

[CdnFox]

38 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

Oh it won't be long, America is already at war.

Really    I may have to buy you a dictionary  

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While it's not publicly admitted,  we're purposely stringing along the Russians in Ukraine.

Trump says it's ukraine's fault and is supporting  a peace deal where russia gets a lot of valuable land.  BIDEN was stringing them along, but trump isn't. 

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See the longer we let them go through their meat grinder, the faster we get to their national collapse. Before the war we were projecting them to collapse around the 2080s, now closer 2030-2040. America is purposely prolonging the war for this exact reason. We're not going to let Ukraine win nor will Russia be able to completely conquer Ukraine. 

I don't know if i've mentioned this to you or not, but the voices in your head are not your friends.

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China has a similar timeline but for different reasons. 50 years of one child policy and rapid industrialization has hollowed out their country. They are past the point of theoretical replacement and so are the Russian. This is before you consider the possibility of a war with Taiwan where we choke off Chinese energy and food import. And we're building out a indo pacific version of NATO to do precisely that, surround China.

I think it's safe to say china isn't about to run out of people any time soon. And if you choke off china's food and oil and gas we'll just sell it to them, along with the russians.  The us actually controls very little of the worlds petrolium resources. 

 

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This is World War 3, America just makes it look really really easy, we're crushing our enemies as you prepare your meal all without us firing a shot. Steam rolling Canada is child's play.

You failed upwards with ukraine and have achieved nothing else.  And now trump is looking to end the war and take away even the russian victory, as is always the case after a war there will be a period of growth and russia will tend to bounce back. Won't happen overnight but it'll happen. 

Sorry kiddo, it's a nice idea but it's just not being managed in a way that would lead to that. IF that's what trump wanted he'd stay out of peace talks and keep trickling in just enough materials to guarantee that ukraine didn't win but didn't lose. 

[Zeitgeist]

23 hours ago, paxamericana said:

That's how it's going to be huh? Sounds like music to me. After we're done with the Russian and Chinese, guess where we gota go next. 

The picture you’re painting of the U.S. as Dark Empire invader isn’t going to win hearts and minds.  It actually makes the U.S. appear weak and insufficient.

From the outside it looks like the U.S. is losing its abundance and generosity, replacing it with a craven shaking down of other countries, including allies, as the debt escalates out of control and moral purpose is replaced by a kind of kleptocratic, cynical foreign policy and a vindictive domestic policy. I understand that the Democrats were similarly vindictive toward the opposition, but the toxicity has gone global under Trump.

When I think about how Canada sent troops to Afghanistan and directed planes to Gander because of 9/11, or sent planes to California to fight forest fires, or used our diplomats in Iran to free US hostages…

It’s hard not to see Trump as a selfish bully. The damage he’s done to international relations will be hard to undo. Why would Canada want to get further integrated with this capricious one man show?  Everything is a swindle and a pulling out of the rug from under people, causing instability, damaging major companies, and throwing people out of work. GM and Ford are hemorrhaging hundreds of millions.

I don’t know how Trump is getting away with his phoney northern fentanyl emergency and simply ignoring the mechanisms for settling trade disputes, ignoring trade agreements altogether. It makes the U.S. appear untrustworthy and greedy. Where’s Congress? Where’s the rule of law? Or does Trump simply own the lot? The courts do appear to be waking up. 

Edited August 11, 2025 by Zeitgeist

[paxamericana]

32 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The picture you’re painting of the U.S. as Dark Empire invader isn’t going to win hearts and minds.

No no no, this is a shakedown. We're not trying to win hearts and mind, we're just trying to win. The world as we speak are undergoing a shrinking of the avaiable growth pie largely due to aging demographics. This requires an old school imperial tool set. Trump is merely an agent of change, he is not the cause.

33 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

phoney northern fentanyl emergency

I would not dimiss this as phony. It can be used very creatively. Right now we are invading Mexico under the same pretense. 

[paxamericana]

8 hours ago, CdnFox said:

but trump isn't. 

The Russian won't stop, this conflict's end won't be decided by Trump. Concessions to Russia only serves to prolong the war. Russia has already paid for the price of a war but gotten none of the benefits, they will see this through to the end with or without Putin. Remember that their goal is to re-establish the old soviet border. Europe knows this, they too are interested in prolonging this war to bleed the Russians out.

8 hours ago, CdnFox said:

after a war there will be a period of growth and russia will tend to bounce back.

No this is already beyond terminal. Their death has far exceeded birth rate which was already at a 200 year low. The war only hasten their demographic collapse, so much so that their statistical agency has stop collecting data. 

Edited August 11, 2025 by paxamericana

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, paxamericana said:

The Russian won't stop, this conflict's end won't be decided by Trump.

Trump thinks it will. He said so a dozen times. How many times has he said he would end the war? The ran a campaign on it for heaven's sake

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Concessions to Russia only serves to prolong the war. Russia has already paid for the price of a war but gotten none of the benefits, they will see this through to the end with or without Putin. Remember that their goal is to re-establish the old soviet border. Europe knows this, they too are interested in prolonging this war to bleed the Russians out.

I had no idea you were in regular communication with them  

 

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No this is already beyond terminal. Their death has far exceeded birth rate which was already at a 200 year low. The war only hasten their demographic collapse, so much so that their statistical agency has stop collecting data. 

Sure kid  

[paxamericana]

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Trump thinks it will. He said so a dozen times. How many times has he said he would end the war? The ran a campaign on it for heaven's sake

Putin certainly wants a pause in the fighting so he can recuperate but that doesn’t mean he’ll stop. This is the 9th post Soviet conflict. The Russians have been marching on the war path for centuries. 

Edited August 11, 2025 by paxamericana

[Zeitgeist]

9 hours ago, paxamericana said:

 

No this is already beyond terminal. Their death has far exceeded birth rate which was already at a 200 year low. The war only hasten their demographic collapse, so much so that their statistical agency has stop collecting data. 

You’re on the right track looking at birth rates.  The West and much of Asia is in demographic free fall.

I’m not convinced of your argument about Russia losing resolve in their war on Ukraine, even if they’re going to have a helluva time managing their occupation, especially if they try to take and hold Western Ukraine. The Russians have endured horrific hardships like the sieges of Leningrad and major cities. 

With regard to the U.S. shakedown of other countries, that’s a very short-term win, because countries are retooling their economies away from dependence on the U.S.   China called Trump’s bluff and refused to play ball until Trump got on the phone.  The U.S. benefits from trade and has to be careful not to permanently damage essential components of its own manufacturing and supply chains. Countries are realizing that the U.S. is an unreliable and shrinking export market.

Edited August 11, 2025 by Zeitgeist

[paxamericana]

27 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I’m not convinced of your argument about Russia losing resolve in their war on Ukraine

No I was arguing that the Russians won’t stop until they can re-establish the old Soviet borders which are the Baltics, Poland, Romania etc.  Ukraine just happens to be in the way to the Baltic’s. So the only way the Russians will stop is if they run out of men and material. Which sits at 6 million men. It’s not bottomless but a ways to go nonetheless. The Chinese also has a vested interest in stringing along the Russian so they can weaken their position in the far east. 

Edited August 11, 2025 by paxamericana

[Zeitgeist]

4 hours ago, paxamericana said:

No I was arguing that the Russians won’t stop until they can re-establish the old Soviet borders which are the Baltics, Poland, Romania etc.  Ukraine just happens to be in the way to the Baltic’s. So the only way the Russians will stop is if they run out of men and material. Which sits at 6 million men. It’s not bottomless but a ways to go nonetheless. The Chinese also has a vested interest in stringing along the Russian so they can weaken their position in the far east. 

I’m not sure about that.  Putin hasn’t invaded any NATO countries and the Baltics are very distinct from Russia culturally and linguistically.  They are Lutheran except Lithuania which is Catholic.  They are NATO countries.  Big parts of modern Ukraine were part of Russia for centuries.  It’s a different context.  The Dombass is Russian speaking.   The Crimea was part of Russia before the Soviet Union.   There were big Russian military assets in the Crimea.   However, Putin’s claim of Western interference and NATO expansion eastward will not provide any political justification for further Russian expansion west.

At this point I think an ultimatum needs to be made to Putin: Cease all further expansion into Ukraine or full NATO membership is given to Kiev, including unlimited military support.  This would put us all at war with Russia because Russia is invading a NATO country.  That’s an extreme move that must be put on the table.  Putin doesn’t think NATO will do much because the U.S. doesn’t want to support a war in Europe.  So far he’s been correct.

Edited August 11, 2025 by Zeitgeist

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, paxamericana said:

Putin certainly wants a pause in the fighting so he can recuperate but that doesn’t mean he’ll stop. This is the 9th post Soviet conflict. The Russians have been marching on the war path for centuries. 

Sooo.... the us is on about it's 8th since the end of the soviet union, are they marching on the path to war as well? 

[paxamericana]

6 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Sooo.... the us is on about it's 8th since the end of the soviet union, are they marching on the path to war as well? 

Well the only direction we could go is toward a nato deadbeat that can’t defend themselves. Can’t leave that front door open and let all the warmth escape. 

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, paxamericana said:

Well the only direction we could go is toward a nato deadbeat that can’t defend themselves. Can’t leave that front door open and let all the warmth escape. 

And yet you haven't. Well... you haven't tried again, still smarting from last time i suspect  

Even trump admitted that mlitary power wasn't an option with canada. We'd smoke your asses something fierce. We wouldn't win any set piece battles but the guerilla war and resistance would be insane and the us would never know another day of peace until they left. Cities all over america would have daily killings and people would be afraid to go outside. The DC shooter pulled that off and he was one guy, imagine a thousand of him. 

[paxamericana]

Just now, CdnFox said:

And yet you haven't. Well... you haven't tried again, still smarting from last time i suspect  

Even trump admitted that mlitary power wasn't an option with canada. We'd smoke your asses something fierce. We wouldn't win any set piece battles but the guerilla war and resistance would be insane and the us would never know another day of peace until they left. Cities all over america would have daily killings and people would be afraid to go outside. The DC shooter pulled that off and he was one guy, imagine a thousand of him. 

Nope, we’re just not interested in a military invasion out of the kindness of our big American hearts. Besides, Christmas dinner would be awkward at grandma’s. But that doesn’t mean you won’t get the cold shoulder at the store.

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, paxamericana said:

Nope, we’re just not interested in a military invasion out of the kindness of our big American hearts. Besides, Christmas dinner would be awkward at grandma’s. But that doesn’t mean you won’t get the cold shoulder at the store.

So you're saying you're scared of us and trump is scared of us. 

Well.... no surprise. 

[Zeitgeist]

19 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

Well the only direction we could go is toward a nato deadbeat that can’t defend themselves. Can’t leave that front door open and let all the warmth escape. 

Most of the crap NATO has had to shovel has been cleanup for US foreign policy.  Canada doesn’t have as many enemies as the U.S. and has generally focused more on peacekeeping, rebuilding wartorn countries, providing aid, and accepting refugees.  The U.S. has basically slashed its acceptance of refugees and foreign aid.  It’s selling arms to Europe for Ukraine.  Canada has spent a fortune supporting Ukraine.

The deadbeat mantra won’t hold up.  Canada has upped military spending significantly.  

[paxamericana]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Most of the crap NATO has had to shovel has been cleanup for US foreign policy.  Canada doesn’t have as many enemies as the U.S. and has generally focused more on peacekeeping, rebuilding wartorn countries, providing aid, and accepting refugees.

No, this is basically saying you only work on jobs that looks good infront of the camera. That only works when America is pre-occupied with doing the hardwork like fending off the Soviets or stabilising the Middle East but now that America is in a period of no more forever war, we're looking at you real close Canada. And you've been found wanting. 

Ironically this is the same thing Ottawa and Quebec pull on Alberta with the climate pledges. I now see how Canucks hone in their charlatan theatrical skill set. There's no where to run to Canada. America is looking at you real close. 

Edited August 11, 2025 by paxamericana

[CdnFox]

16 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

No, this is basically saying you only work on jobs that looks good infront of the camera. That only works when America is pre-occupied with doing the hardwork like fending off the Soviets or stabilising the Middle East but now that America is in a period of no more forever war, we're looking at you real close Canada. And you've been found wanting. 

Ironically this is the same thing Ottawa and Quebec pull on Alberta with the climate pledges. I now see how Canucks hone in their charlatan theatrical skill set. There's no where to run to Canada. America is looking at you real close. 

Oh dear, you're startindg to sound a little frazzled.    @Zeitgeist  managed to strike a bit of a nerve did he?  LOL

Sorry kiddo, but he's quite right.  And it's always the US who winds up starting the conflicts that we all get dragged into  

We do the hard work, the us does the glory work and expects the rest of us to clean up the mess. 

Look at us all you like. Although i'd think you'd know what a middle finger looks like by now 

[paxamericana]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

strike a bit of a nerve did he?

It’s no secret Canucks think of themselves as somehow a morally superior version of the Americans. How else do you build out an entire national identity on not being  Americans… The mental gymnastics is a national sport. 

Edited August 11, 2025 by paxamericana