A serious discussion on racial profiling respecting mass murder and se

[Temagami Scourge]

Like many people here, I firmly believe that racial profiling is required in a number of cases. Specifically in instances of mass murder and serial killing.

Although only 87% of Canada's population is of Euro-Canadian extraction, they make up 100% of Canada's serial killers and mass murderers. We must ask ourselves: What can we do to assist our Euro-Canadian brethren overcome this insidious desire to stalk and murder, or just blow up one day and kill a bunch of people at a workplace, or other public venue?

How can the non-Euro-Canadian population help our brothers and sisters? How can we protect ourselves from wanton acts of slaughter?

Additionally, do not think for a minute that this thread is here to bash our Euro-Canadian population. They have done a number of wonderful things that have made Canada great, and although they may be prone to serial killing and mass murder, we can't let the actions of a few represent the abilities of the many.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this grave matter?

[politika]

Like many people here, I firmly believe that racial profiling is required in a number of cases. Specifically in instances of mass murder and serial killing.

Although only 87% of Canada's population is of Euro-Canadian extraction, they make up 100% of Canada's serial killers and mass murderers. We must ask ourselves: What can we do to assist our Euro-Canadian brethren overcome this insidious desire to stalk and murder, or just blow up one day and kill a bunch of people at a workplace, or other public venue?

How can the non-Euro-Canadian population help our brothers and sisters? How can we protect ourselves from wanton acts of slaughter?

Additionally, do not think for a minute that this thread is here to bash our Euro-Canadian population. They have done a number of wonderful things that have made Canada great, and although they may be prone to serial killing and mass murder, we can't let the actions of a few represent the abilities of the many.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this grave matter?

Look at this here your saying me, geoffry and argus are all racist talking about indians in the Caladnoia thread and here you go about the white population.

Hypocryte.

[Temagami Scourge]

I, for one, can't understand what would drive an outwardly normal Euro-Canadian into a fiendish mass murderer? In Canada, Euro-Canadians have enjoyed the bounty of this great Nation. They have had the fortune of creating and keeping jobs amongst themselves, and for years had the benefit of exclusive policies that ensured their place at the top of the food chain.

Maybe that is the problem? Is it possible that national issues like what happened to the Japanese-Canadians in the second War, what happened to Chinese-Canadians with the head tax, and what has occured with Native Canadians at residential schools, and the efforts to make up for these black gashes on Canadian history has created an underclass of people that -for reasons unbeknownst to us- seek to stalk and kill, or simply explode in anger and kill anyone within range?

Or is that too simplistic an argument, and quite possibly other factors are involved.

For instance, why did Mayerthorpe occur? What would make a crazed Euro-Canadian want to harm Mounties? Why didn't the Mounties simply jail the man since he had a long record of mayhem?

[Temagami Scourge]

Politika:

"Look at this here your saying me, geoffry and argus are all racist talking about indians in the Caladnoia thread and here you go about the white population. Hypocryte."

Come now lad. The purpose of this thread is to discuss what we can do to overcome serial killing and mass murder, and nothing else. I'm not trying to be P.C., nor am I charging any particular group with being lazy or criminals, like Argus and Geoff do regularly.

But you must admit. ALL of our serial killers and mass murderers are Euro-Canadian. We can't keep denying racial profiling -which I happen to agree with Argus and Geoffrey and others, so let's take the bull by the horns and discuss this issue, and not cast aspersions.

Peace, little brother.

[August1991]

Although only 87% of Canada's population is of Euro-Canadian extraction, they make up 100% of Canada's serial killers and mass murderers.

Are you certain about those assertions? (And what do you mean by "Euro-Canadian extraction"?)

BTW, one of the most notorious mass-murderers in Canadian history, Marc Lepine, had an Algerian father.

[Temagami Scourge]

August:

Are you certain about those assertions?

Yes. I'm referring to post-1950 Canada.

(And what do you mean by "Euro-Canadian extraction"?)

Caucasians in particular. There are many Turks, Algerians and Somalians who are now European. I should of said pre-1800 Europeans. Sorry for the confusion.

BTW, one of the most notorious mass-murderers in Canadian history, Marc Lepine, had an Algerian father.

Yep I know, but Algerians are primarily Caucasians. If you want to get semantical, then we can say that 99% of our serail-killers are caucasian, and the other percent are half-Algerian.

Can you provide us any insight August? ...and I'm not joking around...I'm serious about this topice sine the Pickton pig farm, and what has been happening to women in the sex trade in Edmonton. and Mayerthorpe, where the Caucasian dude hunted those poor police.

[politika]

Politika:

"Look at this here your saying me, geoffry and argus are all racist talking about indians in the Caladnoia thread and here you go about the white population. Hypocryte."

Come now lad. The purpose of this thread is to discuss what we can do to overcome serial killing and mass murder, and nothing else. I'm not trying to be P.C., nor am I charging any particular group with being lazy or criminals, like Argus and Geoff do regularly.

But you must admit. ALL of our serial killers and mass murderers are Euro-Canadian. We can't keep denying racial profiling -which I happen to agree with Argus and Geoffrey and others, so let's take the bull by the horns and discuss this issue, and not cast aspersions.

Peace, little brother.

Alright I admit although you don't have proof to back your facts, but I will give you the benifit of the doubt that most murders are white just like most indians are the ones whining to our government to give them more money, your people have no work ethic at all.

Why do you say I am still young I have just turned 18 and legaly I am an adult unless indian culture dictates otherwise?

[geoffrey]

Scourge,

If your actually being serious and not just making some political racially based statement, I can see a bit of truth in what your saying. Most mass murders are white, but considering most of the population is white, I'm not suprised.

What makes these people go crazy? I don't know. I'd likely say most mass murderers are crazy to begin with, I don't think any chain of events will lead to serial killings without some mental disability to begin with.

I'd hardly say that white people are a crime problem though, considering much of our prision space is filled with Indian criminals, and they are a very very small percentage of the population.

To protect yourself? We are all equally exposed to such people, have a gun in your house and know how to use it I guess? It is Canada so you'd likely be jailed for defending yourself in your home, but other than that, its not like wearing the colour purple or carrying a large cross really works.

So there ya go.

[BHS]

(Cue Eddy Murphy.)

[Enskat Kenraken Ronkwe]

If your actually being serious and not just making some political racially based statement, I can see a bit of truth in what your saying. Most mass murders are white, but considering most of the population is white, I'm not suprised.

-----> Geoffry - you make the above statement and go right onto writing a racially based statement ( below )

I'd hardly say that white people are a crime problem though, considering much of our prision space is filled with Indian criminals, and they are a very very small percentage of the population.

Temagami Scourge backed up his argument - Why dont you do the same?

and try to do a whole post with out your regular poke at Native people. You said to me in an earlier post that you do not make racist or derogatory statements that are unilateral in nature towards any group without some sort of proof - but you just did

How many incarcerated people equates to " much " ? 5% of the prison population?????

always comes back to the same issue with you people - it is beyond you to have a discussion without injecting your racist beliefs into it.

I guess if you cant prove your point - using race to keep the argument going is just as good for you.

Why dont you work on improving yourself - bring yourself up instead of trying to rip people down to feel better about yourself? If you are truely proud of yourself and your personal accomplishments there should be no need to resort to petty insults directed, even indirectly at another group of people

I apologise to Temagami because like the racist comments, this post has little or nothing to do with this NEW topic.

[Temagami Scourge]

August:

to add to my earlier post, I wouldn't include The recent Biker killings nor the multiple-shooting at that Sikh wedding in Vancouver a few years back. In both these cases, murderer and victim all knew each other, and each event was planned. Nor would I include any gang fights for the same reason, but I've yet to hear more more than three people dying at any time.

Additionally, I'm not including family murders because they are a completely different animal too. Only murders where the victims and killers didn't know each other, or a public venue blowout, like the Ottawa bus station.

[Enskat Kenraken Ronkwe]

politika please read post i sent to Geoffry and apply it to yourself as well

politika says " ....... give you the benifit of the doubt that most murders are white just like most indians are the ones whining to our government to give them more money, your people have no work ethic at all. "

Actually, I dont see any of that. What I do see are hard working Native people - working hard to support families, holding executive positions, owning and running successful enterprises.

I guess if you drove through Six Nations youd be wondering where all the tee-pee are? LOL

[Enskat Kenraken Ronkwe]

I liked the one with the Natalie Portman video too!

Thanks for the post!

[politika]

politika please read post i sent to Geoffry and apply it to yourself as well

politika says " ....... give you the benifit of the doubt that most murders are white just like most indians are the ones whining to our government to give them more money, your people have no work ethic at all. "

Actually, I dont see any of that. What I do see are hard working Native people - working hard to support families, holding executive positions, owning and running successful enterprises.

I guess if you drove through Six Nations youd be wondering where all the tee-pee are? LOL

I couldnt drive through six nations the other day as their were indians blocking my way into it, because the lazy Ontario government wouldnt do crap all about it.

Tee pees? now honestly what would make me think that?

[betsy]

If I'm not mistaken, serial killers tend to prey on victims belonging to the same race as theirs....and as white people are predominant in this country, of course it would seem that serial killers are mostly white.

Mind you, that Chinese guy (Ng?) had killed several women (mostly white).

Other countries in Asia and Africa must probably have their own problems with serial killers.

As for mass murderers...the US had had quite a few mass murderers belonging from different race.

[Machinations]

Like many people here, I firmly believe that racial profiling is required in a number of cases. Specifically in instances of mass murder and serial killing.

Although only 87% of Canada's population is of Euro-Canadian extraction, they make up 100% of Canada's serial killers and mass murderers. We must ask ourselves: What can we do to assist our Euro-Canadian brethren overcome this insidious desire to stalk and murder, or just blow up one day and kill a bunch of people at a workplace, or other public venue?

How can the non-Euro-Canadian population help our brothers and sisters? How can we protect ourselves from wanton acts of slaughter?

Additionally, do not think for a minute that this thread is here to bash our Euro-Canadian population. They have done a number of wonderful things that have made Canada great, and although they may be prone to serial killing and mass murder, we can't let the actions of a few represent the abilities of the many.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this grave matter?

You are really quite a piece of work. You're right - aboriginal Canadians never murder anyone. Also, there has never been an asian or african serial killer, right?

You're not interested in debate. You're a petty racist who likes to anger people by spewing antagonistic nonsense.

See how easy it is to refute your sophomoric points? This is what school is for, schmuck - if only you had attended.

Disclaimer: I do not agree with racial profiling, in any form. I am sick of your style of argument - it is hysterical (that is, marked by excessive or uncontrollable emotion)

[geoffrey]

Temagami Scourge backed up his argument - Why dont you do the same?

and try to do a whole post with out your regular poke at Native people. You said to me in an earlier post that you do not make racist or derogatory statements that are unilateral in nature towards any group without some sort of proof - but you just did

How many incarcerated people equates to " much " ? 5% of the prison population?????

Crime and incarceration rates in aboriginal communities are another cause for concern. Aboriginal people are incarcerated at more than eight times the national rate.

From Greg's research on this website: http://www.mapleleafweb.com/features/nativ...alienation.html

That's the lowest rate statistic I could find, do some searching and you'll find that Indians are in jail more than any other ethnic group per capita. Not that I blame Indians inherently, I blame the system we have in place for creating the ghettoisation of first immigrant populations.

This was an easy statistic to find, and you'll find many university papers, police studies, ect. by just doing a quick google search on the topic!

Hope that clarifies things. It wasn't racist, it was true.

Scourge's facts aren't even right, as Betsy just pointed out Charles Ng, who slept in a cave near my house for months by the way, was Asian.

[betsy]

Studies and research we've seen are for the US (and Canada). If we have access to information from other parts of the globe, it is possible that we'll find evidence that this phenomenom is not confined to just one particular group. Besides, only the most horrific , the most body-count and sensational cases are usually highlighted. Therefore, how can we conclude your statement as fact if all areas have not been covered?

Here are some interesting read which I googled. This site is teeming with information, however I purposefully just posted those from ethnic groups. Tadaaaa....the Mexicans or the Latinos are prolific too.

Juan Corona – The Machete Murderer

Juan Corona was a labor contractor who hired migrant workers for produce fields in California. In a murder spree lasting six weeks, he raped and murdered 25 men and buried their machete-hacked bodies in the orchards owned by local farmers.

Pedro Alonzo Lopez, known as the ‘The Monster of the Andes,’ was one of history’s most horrific serial killers. He responsible for the brutal murders of over 350 children. He bragged of his crimes and promised to do it again if ever released from prison. Yet in the middle of the night he was taken from prison to a van then driven to the Columbia border and set free.

Richard Ramirez – The Night Stalker

Satanic worshipper, serial killer and rapist, Richard Ramirez, was named The Night Stalker, after terrorizing Los Angeles during a year long killing and rape spree that resulted in his conviction of 43 counts, including 13 murders and other charges including burglary, sodomy, and rape.

Atlanta Child Murders

In the 1970s Atlanta was one of the most dangerous cities in the U.S. A series of murders of black children and teenagers began to emerge, throwing an unwelcome spotlight on the entire city. The murders, believed at that time, to be the work of a racist white group did nothing to recommend the city to tourists and new business opportunities.

http://crime.about.com/od/serial/

WHAT ARE THEY

Statistically, the average serial killer is a white male from a lower to middle class background, usually in his twenties or thirties.

http://crime.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite....tml%3Fsect%3D20

[betsy]

How can the non-Euro-Canadian population help our brothers and sisters? How can we protect ourselves from wanton acts of slaughter?

Unless we've become psychics (ala-Minority Report)....we can't usually tell for these people are masters at deceptions too. They blend in quite easily. They are mentally sick.

They're unlike suicide bombers or Islamic terrorists (religiously motivated, where-in we know majority comes from certain parts of the world), therefore it is easier...and reasonable...to profile.

[Rue]

I found the original post hilarious. The writer clearly has a sense of anger flowing from how he perceives aboriginal people have been treated by white people and in particular white Europeans so makes a delibertaley racist and provocative comment to see if someone will take the bait and say something anti-aboriginal back so he can then use that as an opportunity to rationalize his anger and continue a tit for tat of name calling. Sorry if I do not play the blame game.

By the way for those of us who have worked in the court system and have profiled serial killers and the profiles of criminals we will all tell you what you already know - the propensity to kill and commit crime is inherent in all humans regardless of gender, ethnicity, culture, etc. Some feel most of this is predetermined genetically others feel it is a mix of genetics and learned behaviour. I lean to the latter.

I also think it would be more productive if the original post rather than engage in passive aggressive hatred towards European and whites, really raised an issue dealing with the perceived discriminatory treatment against aboriginals in this country. Probably be a lot more productive then this fake b.s. discussion about

serial killers.

[Rue]

The moment someone poses a question in terms of "us against them" they are in fact promulgating the very kind of racism or hatred they feel is being expressed against them. Its a confused way of them saying they feel unfairly treated by imitating the behaviour they feel is being done to them and trying to throw it back in the face of who they feel is the oppressor. It never works. It does not leave the person who feels they are a victim feeling satisfied at all. All it does is create a never ending cycle of name calling. To learn from our behaviour we must ask questions that try help us learn the origins of our behaviours and conflicts. Questions that are deliberately ambiguous are nothing more then passive aggressive attempts at expressing anger through rhetoric. We have to transcend this kind of anger if we are to ever look our perceived enemy in the face and learn. You can't get the respect you want from your perceived enemy or oppressor when you have so much hatred for yourself. Part of your problem is you blame your own people for being what you think is helpless. They are not. But that is the source of another debate and discussion and I am afraid this present one is futile.

[Temagami Scourge]

Scourge,

If your actually being serious and not just making some political racially based statement, I can see a bit of truth in what your saying. Most mass murders are white, but considering most of the population is white, I'm not suprised.

Geoff; our Caucasian population is 87% of our total pop, and yet the serial killers and murderers are near 100% Caucasian. To me, this isn't simply a "most of", but a serious social problem

What makes these people go crazy? I don't know. I'd likely say most mass murderers are crazy to begin with, I don't think any chain of events will lead to serial killings without some mental disability to begin with.

I think that mental issues might lay at the crux of the problem. If this is the case, would it not make sense to begin mental testing in public school? Although one might make a case that we should list risk factors and address them (which a lot of conservatives think is B.S.), I think that risk factors while growing up are not true indicators. They might have helped with Clifford Olsen, but certainly not with Bernardo. Bernardo had it easy compared to most Canadians...in his case, and in Carla's too, one could argue that "it was in them" all along, eh?

I'd hardly say that white people are a crime problem though, considering much of our prision space is filled with Indian criminals, and they are a very very small percentage of the population.

Well, go start an "Indian incarceration" thread and discuss it. The purpose of this thread is to discuss ways in which we can help our caucasian brothers and sisters overcome the scourge of mass murder and serial killing.

To protect yourself? We are all equally exposed to such people, have a gun in your house and know how to use it I guess? It is Canada so you'd likely be jailed for defending yourself in your home, but other than that, its not like wearing the colour purple or carrying a large cross really works.

Having a gun in the house doesn't protect you from the guy who pulls out his rigged semi-auto while you are standing in line for your MacDonalds order. Everyone packing heat means that anyone making the slightest twitch will get shot, and then that person's friends and family will open up on the shooters who mistook him for a felon in the first place. It gets too "OK Corral-ish' for my taste, but thanks for the reply, it is appreciated.

[Temagami Scourge]

name='Enskat Kenraken Ronkwe' date='May 24 2006, 06:05 PM' post='114253']

-----> Geoffry - you make the above statement and go right onto writing a racially based statement ( below )

Thanks for the apology Enskat, but you can chill on the inflammatory comments. We are trying to maintain a proper decorum and focuss on the topic at hand. We don't want to go swanning off like in the Six Nations thread.

I already told Geoff that if he wants to discuss Native incarceration, than go start a thread on it.

TS

[Temagami Scourge]

If I'm not mistaken, serial killers tend to prey on victims belonging to the same race as theirs....and as white people are predominant in this country, of course it would seem that serial killers are mostly white.

Mind you, that Chinese guy (Ng?) had killed several women (mostly white).

Other countries in Asia and Africa must probably have their own problems with serial killers.

As for mass murderers...the US had had quite a few mass murderers belonging from different race.

betsy: Yes, I understand that most serial killers usually kill their own race, but there appear to be many exceptions to that rule, especially in the Pickton case and the John Crawford's killings of Aboriginal women in Saskatchewan.

even Ng killed outside his race, but he is American, and we are talking Canadian criminals.

likewise, I'm certain that there are serial killers and mass murderers all over the globe, but for this discussion, we are focussing on Canada and Canada's social plight. Serial killers in russia have little to do with it unless there is comparable evidence of a mental nature which is shared by serial killers worldwide.

to date, there is no such evidence.

[Temagami Scourge]

Machination:

You are really quite a piece of work. You're right - aboriginal Canadians never murder anyone.

No, many murders take place in the Aboriginal community. I've had to live through the unfortunate experience of having relations who were either murder victims or murderers...but again, this thread is looking at serial killing and mass murder, which have non-existent Aboriginal representation in Canada, to date.

If you want to discuss Aboriginal murders, start a separate thread. It might dovetail with this one if Pickton is being discussed.

Also, there has never been an asian or african serial killer, right?

The focus of this thread is on Canada. Serial killing and mass murder take place all over the world, but here in canada, we have our own unique issues separate from the U.S., Britain etc.

You're not interested in debate. You're a petty racist who likes to anger people by spewing antagonistic nonsense[/b].

Actually, I am interested in debate, and I'm not a petty racist. I also take exception to you viewing me this way, but I realize that your perceptions are your problem, not mine. I'm sorry you feel this way, but if you don't want to participate, then feel free not to do so. other than that, there is some genuine and interesting discussion taking place.

See how easy it is to refute your sophomoric points? This is what school is for, schmuck - if only you had attended.

You've not made one point about Canada. To reiterate, the focus of this thread is about canada's issues with serial murder and mass killings, not any other country's. If you want to participate, please stay to topic, or go create your own "non-Canadian serial killers and mass murderers discussion" thread.

Disclaimer: I do not agree with racial profiling, in any form. I am sick of your style of argument - it is hysterical (that is, marked by excessive or uncontrollable emotion)

Apart from the inchoate babble at the end of the quoted sentence, I would like to know more of your thoughts on racial profiling and why you disagree with the idea. I was under the impression that many people on this site were supportive of the idea of racial profiling...especially after participating in the Gwyn Morgan discussion.