Conservatives blowing it

[Rovik]

Though I was not a Conservative supporter, i still had high hopes for the Conservatives for cleaning up the government. But now it looks like the Conservatives might be just as bad (or even worse potentially) when it comes to accountibility. First it was the David Emerson and Senator Michael Fortier fiasco within the first few weeks of being elected and now it looks like Accountibilty Act that the Conservatives will push is full of holes that may make things worst than they all ready are.

Accountability act 'a bureaucrat's dream,' information commissioner says

Next they have gone the American way and decided to have barred media from covering fallen soldiers' return and not to have flags lowered to half mast. This to many Canadians is not respectful of what the soldier's sacrifice. One parent of a soldier who died criticized the Conservatives policy. Anyhow here is a link regarding the situation.

Media barred from covering soldiers' return

And a link re: the parent critisizing the Conservatives.

Dead soldier's father criticizes Harper - from The Globe and Mail

And now it seems that the Conservatives have made a bad deal re: softwood with the US. Sure, the US will even be able to keep 1 billion dollars of what many decisions by NAFO and WTO have said wasn't theirs and should be given back to Canada. Imagine if someone stole $50000 from you and even though the thief was told to give back all your money (continously), it was settled that he only had to give back $40000. Is this right? No.

Canada, U.S. reach softwood lumber deal - from Globe and Mail

There could even be a clause that may enable the US to veto on changes to provincial policies,

which could even infringe on Canada's sovereignty.

Softwood deal could pinch sovereignty - from Canoe

And some of the US lumber producers may even sue Canada with this money.

Lumber producers may sue Canada

And if you add in Harper's iron grip on his caucus and the the Conservative's hands-off approach of the media, it doesn't look like a very good start for this government and again it's only early in the game.

*Waiting for the right wingers here to pounch, they will defend the Conservatives right to the bitter end, no matter how bad the decisions made by the Conservatives are*

[shoop]

Only in response to the rabid Harper-haters who are never going to give him credit for anything. Remember that no Government receives 100% support for all decisions. Nothing wrong with supporting our Prime Minister from such pathetic partisan attacks.

*Waiting for the right wingers here to pounch, they will defend the Conservatives right to the bitter end, no matter how bad the decisions made by the Conservatives are*

The pathetic John Reid criticism of the Accountability Act has been exposed for the partisan farce that it is on another thread.

Calling it "blowing it" is sad and lame. The Government's popularity is up and they are making decisions that people agree with. Committing to an actual protocol on flags is a welcome change from Paul Martin's pathetic dithering while PM.

Fool yourself all you want, but if Harper keeps approaching things with the focused and determined style he has so far, he will win a majority next year.

The softwood lumber deal got the approval of the Premier's of the three major softwood lumber producing provinces and all the biggest firms in the industry.

[Guest Warwick Green]

Look at the Liberal options - a retread socialist being pushed by the G&M, an ex-tory who leaks public policy and an academic who thinks you have to go Harvard to learn about Canada. Sure Harper has made mistakes - not many in my opinion - and he is sure miles ahead of the alternatives.

[August1991]

Conservatives are blowing it. Right.

Stephen Harper's Conservatives are growing more and more popular as the fledgling minority government establishes itself, a new survey suggests.

In fact, the new Decima Research poll released Wednesday found the Conservatives drawing support that could carry the party into majority-government territory.

The survey, however, was taken before the government decided to ban media from the repatriation ceremonies for fallen soldiers and also stop the practice of lowering flags to half-mast to honour military casualties.

Those decisions have caused a firestorm of controversy, and may have taken the edge off the Conservative's otherwise commanding lead.

According to the poll, the Conservatives held 41 per cent support nationally, followed by the Liberals at 26 per cent and the NDP at 19 per cent.

CTV

But you know what? CTV had to add that the poll was taken before the flag controversy, suggesting that Harper really isn't that popular.

Some people have been underestimating Stephen Harper from the very beginning.

Who remembers the Harper Out weblog?

[Shakeyhands]

You know, this is kind of terrifying. This board, in particular, is sounding like a microcosm of whats being going on in the US for the last few years, rabid defence no matter what, degredation of the alternative as the lesser of two choices etc... Its really sounding quite familiar...

and which one of you ever said one positive thing about the previous Gov't? You really should be smarter to expect any different now. They must do something good in order to gain reluctant respect.

[scribblet]

What a first 3(?) months:

International role re-affirmed.

Military re-established.

Kyoto on the back-burner

Budget in place

Softwood lumber resolved

Opponents and provinces off-balance.

Media eating crow.

I, like many here, have been occassionally a bit bewildered by Harper's actions since the election, but you've got to hand it to the guy, he is just going ahead, within the realm of the possible, with much that I had hoped for.

[geoffrey]

There are many things that I don't like about what Harper is doing currently. I was hoping he was going to attack the spending and taxation issues of the government quickly, but I'm not seeing much done there. I was one of those that voted for the 'hidden agenda'.

But oh well, it's all made up in his full on hatred for the media. Such an unethical, blood thirsty group deserved a good kick in the pants, and now they are getting what they've earned.

For this, Harper gets my support.

[shoop]

Agreed, that some of the things he has done appear a little bewildering at times.

But they do appear to be part of a grand plan. Bringing Emerson on side makes sense now that the Softwood deal is signed.

Even the seeming mistakes, flag flap, are being handled correctly.

What are the odds Martin would have backed down on that one???

What a first 3(?) months:

International role re-affirmed.

Military re-established.

Kyoto on the back-burner

Budget in place

Softwood lumber resolved

Opponents and provinces off-balance.

Media eating crow.

I, like many here, have been occassionally a bit bewildered by Harper's actions since the election, but you've got to hand it to the guy, he is just going ahead, within the realm of the possible, with much that I had hoped for.

[Hicksey]

It looks to me like the Liberal supporters around here are getting a head start on the next election and testing their refreshed Harper=Satan pitches.

You guys will learn to get used to someone who doesn't govern by poll, pander to the media or kiss anyone's butt for that matter. He even managed to go on the offensive against Bush in his first week on the softwood lumber dispute and the northern territory without the requisite childish insults we've come to expect from the Liberals.

I may not agree with everything he's done, but I have respect for a guy who has the guts to not let the PM office change who he is or his agenda.

I'm even beginning to like the comparisons to Bush. Harper is Bush with all the deficiencies removed. Where Bush is right, Harper is right. Where Bush is wrong, Harper is right. As a conservative it doesn't get any better than that short of holding the office myself.

I want a majority tomorrow. Lets stop the train taking us to complete dependence on our government that the Liberals and NDP have seemingly trapped us on.

For once I am finally starting to see a real conservative with real intention to reduce the size of government. He's smart enough to know he might have to give some in one area to be able to take in other key areas.

We don't need the government to provide for us. We need the government to leave us the hell alone so we can provide for ourselves. Having the government taking the lion's share of my paycheque and giving a fools share back doesn't work. Harper won't get us to that end, but I think he's going to finally stop the train and point it in the right direction.

So keep up your foolish propaganda and keep looking petty and desperate. As long as I keep seeing misinformation like this I know we're doing something right. If there's one thing I've learned about politics in this country is that the Liberal party is the biggest bunch of plagarists the world has ever known. They don't want office to change things. They want office so they can reinvent the ideas as their own, take credit for it and reassume the office they feel they're entitled to.

Besides, why should I be concerned as a conservative because the Liberals don't approve of Harper? They're Liberals. They weren't going to approve in the first place.

[Shakeyhands]

and again...... have I ever heard one positive thing about the previous Gov't from you lot? Come on...

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Hicksey,

It looks to me like the Liberal supporters around here are getting a head start on the next election and testing their refreshed Harper=Satan pitches.

Actually, only the thread starter was bashing Harper, the rest of the responses were generally positive, fair-minded critiques, IMO.

[PocketRocket]

I think it's a bit early to say Harper is "blowing it".

I'm not crazy about the guy, and I made that plain in many of my posts before the election, but the Liberals had to go.

I have been a Liberal voter in most of the elections over the past 28 years, but this time around they needed to be shown the door simply because there had been far too many Liberal gaffes in recent times.

The Libs needed to be given notice that they ARE accountable, and that the country WILL vote them out if they screw up too much.

I believe they had lost touch with that simple reality.

I have no doubt that they will be back in power again before too long. How long??? No one can say with certainty.

But as for Harper and his party, I don't see any major problems with anything they've done so far.

I don't buy into the "Harper=Bush" rhetoric that so many have parrotted.

I'm not sure that I agree with the press being banned from the homecoming of the troops killed in combat, but then again I don't see that as being a major issue.

As for the softwood lumber settlement, at least there has been an agreement put in place.

Perhaps it could have been a better deal, but from the way things had been dragging on for years with no settlement previously in sight, this seems like a hell of a lot better deal than no deal at all.

Hopefully the USA will live up to her agreement this time around.

I don't want to see Harper "blow it", either.

While I'm not crazy about him, as I previously stated, I would far rather see him be a fine leader (and prove some of my earlier statements about him wrong) than see him be responsible for some boondoggle which will hurt the country simply so I can say "told you so".

[Hicksey]

Dear Hicksey,

It looks to me like the Liberal supporters around here are getting a head start on the next election and testing their refreshed Harper=Satan pitches.

Actually, only the thread starter was bashing Harper, the rest of the responses were generally positive, fair-minded critiques, IMO.

I saw that and I was responding to the original poster. I have also noticed these type of posts are becoming more and more prevalent these days.

[Hicksey]

Dear Hicksey,

It looks to me like the Liberal supporters around here are getting a head start on the next election and testing their refreshed Harper=Satan pitches.

Actually, only the thread starter was bashing Harper, the rest of the responses were generally positive, fair-minded critiques, IMO.

I saw that and I was responding to the original poster. I have also noticed these type of posts are becoming more and more prevalent these days.

[Michael Hardner]

and again...... have I ever heard one positive thing about the previous Gov't from you lot? Come on...

Shakey - you'll find that many of these types of boards will ape the behavior they see on CNN Crossfire and other political panel-type television programs. As time goes on, though, I see more and more people who post as individuals rather than as party operatives.

MapleLeaf, happily, has a high proportion of those types of posters.

I'd like to think I'm more objective than most. Maybe I am, or maybe I'm not. With respect to Harper, I didn't vote for him, nor did I ever vote for Reform. But I feel, as PocketRocket does, that the Liberals had to go.

Martin didn't do a bad job of managing things, but he was too poll-driven, and didn't have the kind of vision to address many of our problems, especially the big one (IMO) political disenchantment.

Harper's policies for the first term are going to be so milquetoast that you will barely be able to distinguish him as a Conservative. You won't be able to tell that from the criticism that he will receive, though. If he wins a second term, he'll start moving into areas of real controversy - program cuts, restructuring, etc. So use this first term as an opportunity to observe the politics.

On the substance side, I applaud Harper for bringing an understandable and focussed platform which he will undoubtedly pass if his government survives.

I invite everyone on this board to argue as individuals - you don't have to choose one side over the other as Shakey says: "rabid defence no matter what". Political victory is less important than dialogue.

[shoop]

Agreed Martin was far too poll-driven, but I believe that it did effect his performance in managing things.

A poll-driven PM had his PMO decide on a case by case basis whether or not to lower the flag on the Peace Tower after the death of every soldiers death in combat. Harper has chosen to return to a standard protocol for all people.

Martin didn't close a deal on softwood lumber for fear of criticism. Is everybody happy with this deal? No. Are the vast majority? It appears so.

I love the argument that Harper will be *scary* *scary* *scary* in a second term. Any proof for that?

If you are going to quote somebody like Shakeyhands you should look at his history of postings. Shakey rabidly attacks Harper "no matter what".

Seems to me it is far better having a Government that is mired in a "scandal" over the protocol for lowering flags, as opposed to how many millions was diverted to party coffers in a bogus advertising scheme.

Martin didn't do a bad job of managing things, but he was too poll-driven, and didn't have the kind of vision to address many of our problems, especially the big one (IMO) political disenchantment.

Harper's policies for the first term are going to be so milquetoast that you will barely be able to distinguish him as a Conservative. You won't be able to tell that from the criticism that he will receive, though. If he wins a second term, he'll start moving into areas of real controversy - program cuts, restructuring, etc. So use this first term as an opportunity to observe the politics.

On the substance side, I applaud Harper for bringing an understandable and focussed platform which he will undoubtedly pass if his government survives.

I invite everyone on this board to argue as individuals - you don't have to choose one side over the other as Shakey says: "rabid defence no matter what". Political victory is less important than dialogue.

[Michael Hardner]

I love the argument that Harper will be *scary* *scary* *scary* in a second term. Any proof for that?

None whatsoever. He could very well implement strong pro-union legislation, and introduce constitutional ammendments prohibiting discrimination against homosexuals. He probably doesn't even know 100% what he's going to do.

But if you read posts on this board (in this thread ?) you'll find conservatives who say that Harper 'can't do anything in the first term' 'can't do anything major until he has a majority' etc. I'm not going too far out on a limb when I suggest that he's moving slowly. He is still somewhat of a politican after all.

If you are going to quote somebody like Shakeyhands you should look at his history of postings. Shakey rabidly attacks Harper "no matter what".

Well, maybe he's about to change. He's just recognized that kind of behavior in his opponents is unattractive. Maybe he's about to take it to heart.

Seems to me it is far better having a Government that is mired in a "scandal" over the protocol for lowering flags, as opposed to how many millions was diverted to party coffers in a bogus advertising scheme.

Better is to be decided by the people in the next election. We can talk about what's happening - politically and substantively - but why pick an issue for each party and compare them that way ? One could easily pick Harper's non-attendance of the Canadian soldier's return and Martin balancing the budget. ( And please don't spin off a discussion on that. I don't care. )

We'll all decide who's better at the ballot box. In the meantime, it would be interesting to break down what each of us thinks of all the parties' moves, whether we voted for them or not.

[Argus]

and again...... have I ever heard one positive thing about the previous Gov't from you lot? Come on...

Suppose you tell us what they should be applauded for? The previous government was an endless scramble to please anyone and everyone in hopes of garnering more support in the inevitable upcoming election. Everything they did - not that they did much - seemed to be entirely driven by self-interest. What am I to applaud? Running around the country making deals with the provinces for billions of dollars to be spent somewhere, sort of in the area of something related to daycare - hopefully - so they could proclaim a "National Daycare Program"? What did they did which was brave, innovative, challenging? Even the same-sex issue seemed designed purposefully to polarize public opinion and make them look noble and open to their lefty supporters while portraying the Conservatives as evil church-loving zealots. I don't think Paul Martin, for example, was ever able to bring himself to actually say the word "homosexual".

So you run down their accomplishments and principled stands and I'll see if I can garner some applause.

[shoop]

Goes to show how pathetic Martin was as PM that you had to pick an accomplishment from his term as Finance Minister to crete the worst possible comparison.

Better is to be decided by the people in the next election. We can talk about what's happening - politically and substantively - but why pick an issue for each party and compare them that way ? One could easily pick Harper's non-attendance of the Canadian soldier's return and Martin balancing the budget. ( And please don't spin off a discussion on that. I don't care. )

[August1991]

Harper's policies for the first term are going to be so milquetoast that you will barely be able to distinguish him as a Conservative. You won't be able to tell that from the criticism that he will receive, though. If he wins a second term, he'll start moving into areas of real controversy - program cuts, restructuring, etc. So use this first term as an opportunity to observe the politics.

That's the scary/Nazi Harper schtick again.

"Harper's a nice guy now but wait until you see the real Harper!"

Look, if there is anything one can conclude about Harper's relatively short career so far it is that everyone (meaning Toronto's English media) underestimates the guy. He has been consistently counted out, and then he succeeds. As recently as September 2005 (that's about eight months ago), the media said there was a movement afoot with in the Conservative Party to ditch Harper because he was unelectable.

So, when I read a thread heading that says "Conservatives blowing it", I'm prepared to discount it. Indeed, the polls show the Conservatives in majority territory.

If this is called blowing it, then I say Harper should keep on blowing it.

I'm not one of those people who believes in a media conspiracy. I don't think that the English-Canadian media get together in some bar in Toronto and decide a storyline. But Harper seems to be a hockey arena, Tim Hortons sort of guy and the English media patronizes such people.

In truth, Harper has been able to go over the media's heads directly to the kind of people who may vote for him. They are starting to get to know Harper and they are comfortable with the way he is. I know I am just talking about style when in fact Harper's style has been to get things done in a straightforward way. His style is the content.

Canadians are still far from getting to know the Tory cabinet ministers and feeling comfortable with them (we will discover more about Flaherty next week) and Harper is still far from winning a majority in an election. But this is now in the realm of possibility.

The thread's title is just wrong.

[shoop]

So you are willing to give an anonymous poster on a message board the benefit of the doubt based on one call for civility and nothing else, BUT you are still willing to give credit for the Prime Minister's track record in office for moderation? Hmmm, no bias there at all

Has Harper been going slowly? Let's look at what he has done, and will have done by Tuesday. Introducing the accountability act, brokering a deal on softwood lumber, re-committing to Norad and a budget that introduces the GST cut plus the funding for a new childcare deal all within six weeks of the opening of the new Parliament.

What would he have to do for you to say he isn't moving *slowly*?

Well, maybe he's about to change. He's just recognized that kind of behavior in his opponents is unattractive. Maybe he's about to take it to heart.

[Rovik]

Only in response to the rabid Harper-haters who are never going to give him credit for anything. Remember that no Government receives 100% support for all decisions. Nothing wrong with supporting our Prime Minister from such pathetic partisan attacks.

Partisan? I'm not following any party lines here. It's my own personal decision. And I don't hate Harper. I supported his stand on accountibility during the election. Too bad, it was all smoke and mirrors. I also have to add that I was very pleased that Harper and the Conservatives stood up for the sealers against celebrities such as Pamela Anderson and the McCartneys. So, no I don't hate Harper and the Conservatives, only a lot of their policies and it's not hate, it's disagreement, a fine distinction that.

The pathetic John Reid criticism of the Accountability Act has been exposed for the partisan farce that it is on another thread.

Calling it "blowing it" is sad and lame. The Government's popularity is up and they are making decisions that people agree with. Committing to an actual protocol on flags is a welcome change from Paul Martin's pathetic dithering while PM.

This is all conjecture. Unless John Reid actually comes out and says this so-called partisanism is true than people can't say with 100% certainty that "John Reid criticism of the Accountability Act has been exposed for the partisan farce" is true. I'm not saying that "Paul Martin's pathetic dithering while PM" was the correct course either. " And regarding blowing it as sad and lame, well another recent thread here is labelled "Liberals sink to new low." I'm not going to criticize it and say its "sad and lame." I'll respect her opinion, no matter if I do or do not support that view. In my opinion, they are blowing it...notice I haven't said blown it. Thye still have an opportunity to change my opinion and many more people's opinion as well.

But you know what? CTV had to add that the poll was taken before the flag controversy, suggesting that Harper really isn't that popular.

I don't see nothing wrong with CTV saying that because it more than likely is true and I'm pretty sure not put there so CTV can punish the Conservatives. Look at this way, if the Conservatives were polled at 17%, then the Conservatives decided to give everyone in Canada a $1000 cheque, and CTV (hypothetically) came out and said the polling might be lot different now, would this be wrong?

What a first 3(?) months:

International role re-affirmed.

Military re-established.

Kyoto on the back-burner

Budget in place

Softwood lumber resolved

Opponents and provinces off-balance.

Media eating crow.

Hmm..international role re-affirmed? In what way? More than likely to do what the Americans want us to do?...like possibly missile defence?

Harper open to missile-defence talks with U.S.

I remember back around '90, when talking to a Brit girl on vacation here in Canada. She said to me that her and many of her friends considered Canada the virtual 51st state. I believe this thinking changed in many foreigners' eyes during the last 10 years but will it change back. Don't get me wrong, if the US proposes agreements or partnerships that benefit Canada then I'm for it, but policies like missile defence are not one of them (I believe I talked about this in one of these threads a long while back so I won't get into detail)

Military re-established. How? Being there on the front lines with the Americans instead of our traditional role as Peacekeepers. I don't see this as a good thing in the long run. Though I do agree with many when they say that the military should be modernized and buildup...for peacekeeping purposes. Other nations perception of us will be a lot different when we are on the front line instead of peacekeeping and the view won't be for the better.

Kyoto on the back-burner. Terrible mistake, The world will suffer and what happens when the Earth's climate goes beyond the point of no return. What will we say?..."well we should have done something about it a long time ago but it's too late now" and our descendents will suffer because of it.

Budget in place. At what price? What important social programs will be cut back or eliminated to pay for the Conservative's policies.

Softwood lumber resolved. Resolved in good way or bad? See my first post in this thread on this.

Opponents and provinces off-balance. Yes breaking govt deals that provinces thought were in place such as affordbale daycare or befuddling opponents after accepting Emerson as a cabinet minister and putting an unelected senator in the cabinet, this after the Conservatives pushed ethics as one of their main themes in the election.

Media eating crow. There have been times in the past that I perceived bias in the media but at the same time you don't want to upset them too much. They have a powerful influence on people's opinion, especially around election time

It looks to me like the Liberal supporters around here are getting a head start on the next election and testing their refreshed Harper=Satan pitches.

Actually, only the thread starter was bashing Harper, the rest of the responses were generally positive, fair-minded critiques, IMO.

Bashing Harper. I haven't bashed him personally, he seems like a half-decent family guy. It's his government's policies that i am disagreeing with, not "bashing."

The thread's title is just wrong.

"The thread's title is just wrong," in your opinion. In my opinion, it isn't wrong. Opinion and fact are quite different.

[August1991]

But you know what? CTV had to add that the poll was taken before the flag controversy, suggesting that Harper really isn't that popular.

I don't see nothing wrong with CTV saying that because it more than likely is true and I'm pretty sure not put there so CTV can punish the Conservatives. Look at this way, if the Conservatives were polled at 17%, then the Conservatives decided to give everyone in Canada a $1000 cheque, and CTV (hypothetically) came out and said the polling might be lot different now, would this be wrong?

Maybe it is true but it's so typical of the English media's approach to Harper. They always sell the guy short. There's always a dig that he's going to fail, bungle, get it wrong - that his true colours will appear, that the Tory caucus will blow up, that Canadians won't like him.

I remember back around '90, when talking to a Brit girl on vacation here in Canada. She said to me that her and many of her friends considered Canada the virtual 51st state. I believe this thinking changed in many foreigners' eyes during the last 10 years but will it change back. Don't get me wrong, if the US proposes agreements or partnerships that benefit Canada then I'm for it, but policies like missile defence are not one of them (I believe I talked about this in one of these threads a long while back so I won't get into detail)

Maybe that's the source of the difficulty, Rovik.

It is so easy for a foreigner (non-American) to come to Canada and describe Canada as American and I can understand why an English-Canadian would find that offensive.

[i'll quickly note that Newfoundlanders don't have this problem, nor do most Maritimers. Quebecers don't have this problem either, although they suffer too from foreigners' comments.]

IMV, English-Canadians are English North Americans. The lifestyle is American but English-Canadians carry none of the political baggage of being American. A change of PM or federal government is not going to change these facts. I have found young people in southern Ontario to be the most concerned about this and it's unfortunate.

The thread's title is just wrong.

"The thread's title is just wrong," in your opinion. In my opinion, it isn't wrong. Opinion and fact are quite different.

The Tories are doing well in the polls and the government has not been the disaster many were expecting it to be. On the contrary, Harper has been running a tight ship. He is excelling at the very thing the Liberals always claimed to be: competent.

[Riverwind]

There's always a dig that he's going to fail, bungle, get it wrong - that his true colours will appear, that the Tory caucus will blow up, that Canadians won't like him.

I think the media is giving Harper a huge gift. When the media annointed Paul Martin as the savoir of the country Martin had no choice but to fail to live up to the impossibily high expectations. With the media setting such low expectations for Harper he will look great even if he only does a mediocre job.

[August1991]

There's always a dig that he's going to fail, bungle, get it wrong - that his true colours will appear, that the Tory caucus will blow up, that Canadians won't like him.

I think the media is giving Harper a huge gift. When the media annointed Paul Martin as the savoir of the country Martin had no choice but to fail to live up to the impossibily high expectations. With the media setting such low expectations for Harper he will look great even if he only does a mediocre job.

That's the Bush Snr school of political success: lower expectations. I have wondered if Harper has been deliberately encouraging this.

I don't think so. It is tied in to the English-Canadian pysche. Harper is a middle-class kid from Leaside, Ontario who then moved to Calgary. He's as white-bread, WASP as they come; no panache. At best, he's a decent, boring Canadian. English-Canadian media tend to denigrate people like that. It's an eat-the-young mentality, or something.

Incidentally, I suspect that the Liberals are hoping Ignatieff will get a pass because he was on the BBC, or something.

And another incidentally, the French-Canadian media portrayal of Harper is even more bizarre. Nobody can figure the guy out. It's kind of like Andre Arthur in English-Canada.