Proportional system isolates marginals. In this modern world, it's exactly the other way around

[myata]

Canada, this can be one of your last, or indeed the last chance to wake and take in the need to change. Urgently.

Look below. This is how the threat of a rise of a marginal group looks in a modern European democracy with a modern standard political system. The marginals got less than 20% of the popular vote, and accordingly, representation in the federal parliament. This is worrisome, can't be ignored. But hardly a catastrophe.

If it was a binary first past the post system; and the marginals managed to subvert one of the default ruling parties, you know what could have happened from the daily news.

This is a disaster waiting to happen, hanging on a thin thread. And the time to prevent it is right now.

 

[eyeball]

Political parties shouldn't be afforded any more importance than a social club where people of like minds gather and associate. If we made our governance a duty and simply drafted our parliament from ordinary Canadians like we do our juries every club could count on having as much chance as anyone else they'll be represented.

If they have good solid ideas they'll rise to the top and all things being equal ordinary common sense Canadians should be able to rise to the occasion unfettered by both the mundane and dangerous self-interest of partisan concerns.

 

[myata]

Or will we talk and procrastinate till the disaster happens?

[josej]

 Perhaps instead of only being wary, it is worth considering why people choose this path

[CdnFox]

13 hours ago, eyeball said:

Political parties shouldn't be afforded any more importance than a social club where people of like minds gather and associate. If we made our governance a duty and simply drafted our parliament from ordinary Canadians like we do our juries every club could count on having as much chance as anyone else they'll be represented.

If they have good solid ideas they'll rise to the top and all things being equal ordinary common sense Canadians should be able to rise to the occasion unfettered by both the mundane and dangerous self-interest of partisan concerns.

 

Virtually none of that is true and what we see is basically what we got for the last 10 years. In a system like that people with good ideas don't rise to the top. People focus on appearance and scoring points rather than actually getting things done and blame everyone else for the fact that nothing went right. It's management by popularity contest because every fringe group is trying to appeal to its people rather than worry about what's best for Canada and nobody gets to judge because nobody is held accountable.

It's your perfect world.

The benefit of the system that puts one party in charge is that party is answerable for everything that happens. And if the voters do their job and hold them to account for their successes or failures then you get good governance because there's something in it for that party. There is absolutely nothing in it when you have a bunch of fringe parties all trying to steal media space and blame everyone else for the failures of the country.

[myata]

Stinky little liars understand it very well. That explains why they would be up in arms against any meaningful change - just look how well the quaint and dysfunctional status quo worked for them right next door.

[eyeball]

7 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Virtually none of that is true

No kidding Sherlock, aside from Parliament none of it even exists.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

No kidding Sherlock, aside from Parliament none of it even exists.

Really? Political parties don't exist?

You're always so cute when you say something stupid and then try and pass it off as a joke   I have a little nephew who's at that stage right now  

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Really? Political parties don't exist?

Not as social clubs.

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Not as social clubs.

 

Sure they do. The party's all hold very social events with lots of people going to pub nights, dinner nights, all kinds of exciting things. For many people there are social club the same as the lions or the legion or the like.

LOL you've never really participated at all in politics other than to stand on the sidelines and whine have you  

[eyeball]

47 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Sure they do. The party's all hold very social events with lots of people going to pub nights, dinner nights, all kinds of exciting things. For many people there are social club the same as the lions or the legion or the like.

Sure kid, get back to me when the Kiwanis Club starts running candidates for public office.

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

Sure kid, get back to me when the Kiwanis Club starts running candidates for public office.

Why? You said that political parties should behave like social clubs, not that social club should behave like political parties.

Mind you you said that political parties don't exist so........

[Legato]

13 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Sure kid, get back to me when the Kiwanis Club starts running candidates for public office.

Cman Eyeball, soon you will be telling us about Freemason blackballing.

[eyeball]

15 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Mind you you said that political parties don't exist so......

More to the point though it's a Parliament composed of individuals picked at random like jurists that doesn't exist. Without that you're just arguing using ghosts.

[eyeball]

8 minutes ago, Legato said:

Cman Eyeball, soon you will be telling us about Freemason blackballing.

Why? Does this have something to do with Trudeau and face paint or Trump and...whatever he smears all over himself?

[Legato]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

Why? Does this have something to do with Trudeau and face paint or Trump and...whatever he smears all over himself?

No, just playing your game of introducing new sets of goalposts every 3rd quote.

You should try cricket, they change ends.

 

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, Legato said:

No, just playing your game of introducing new sets of goalposts every 3rd quote.

Show me. Line them up

1.

2.

3.

Just like that. 

 

[500channelsurfer]

When I was younger and more idealistic, I hoped Canada would change to proportional representation.

Since then I have become better acquainted with PR's drawbacks vs FPTP: more frequent elections with less predictable election dates, increased control of parties from party top brass, increased disconnect of parties from local riding associations, splintered governments beholden to multiple parties and interests in order to remain in confidence, etc.

myata, what are you advocating for in your original post?

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

More to the point though it's a Parliament composed of individuals picked at random like jurists that doesn't exist.

Yes, because that would be stupid. Nothing would ever get done, nobody would ever be accountable, little power blocks would develop behind the scenes out of the public eye with no stated policy or public input in policy, it would be an unmitigated disaster.

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

Without that you're just arguing using ghosts

So this appears to be the little game you play where you've realized you said something stupid and you're going to try and distract from it by making nonsense statements that muddy the issue.

I made a point and you tried to deflect from it by saying that things like political parties and so on don't exist. When you got called on that you are now suggesting that an absolutely idiocy Of an idea should exist and somehow the fact that you have this bizarre and undefendable position means I'm arguing with ghosts (???)

It'd be really great if you could get your head out of your ass long enough to actually make a point and if you are going to run away from your points as soon as you make them maybe try making better points