Trump reduced himself to openly voicing Putin's propaganda. A complete and final degradation of a human shell

[myata]

"Ukraine should never have started this war". That one phrase is already written in history.

Maybe he is insane, cannot see the difference between his wild imaginations and the reality. I couldn't care less. But for America, it's a shame and disgrace of historical proportions, a social cataclysm that will be reflected upon, discussed and judged for generations. If that is, it would be able to find its way back to normality because this is history's first. From here, there are no guarantees and no future is certain.

And now, to the Republican party. Will it look sideways, pretending that nothing much happen? Will anyone stand for the truth and principles of liberty? No, as usual? Then this one event will certify its condition as the first fascist party of America. Yes, it's that close now. The last, and final chance to step away from the chasm.

And then, to the Democrats: will they look sideways and mumble shyly something about the economy hoping to get those two seats while an aspiring fascist tyrant is reaching for the absolute power?

Let's see it. Nothing will be hidden from here. As always in the deciding moments of history, each and every one will show their true nature, and worth.

[August1991]

Insane?

This horrible terrific useless civil war between Slavs should never have started.

It could/should have been avoided.

====

Trump is married to a Slovenian. He was married to a Slovak.

[robosmith]

1 minute ago, August1991 said:

Insane?

This horrible terrific useless civil war between Slavs should never have started.

It could/should have been avoided.

====

Trump is married to a Slovenian. He was married to a Slovak.

Yes ^insane. The ONLY things that "could" have avoided the war is Putin deciding NOT to invade OR Ukraine's SURRENDER.

[August1991]

Just now, robosmith said:

Yes ^insane. The ONLY things that "could" have avoided the war is Putin deciding NOT to invade OR Ukraine's SURRENDER.

Disagree,

=====

I have been to Crimea. You Slavs have more to agree with.

[myata]

7 minutes ago, August1991 said:

It could/should have been avoided.

The rape could/should have been avoided if the victim just gave her consent. No problem then.

Germans say: "if there are ten people at a table, one is Nazi and others say nothing, there are ten Nazis at the table".

[robosmith]

1 minute ago, August1991 said:

Disagree,

=====

I have been to Crimea. You Slavs have more to agree with.

Putin's attack on Kiev proves his intent to subjugate the entire nation. 

[myata]

In February, 2014 Putin's Russia invaded and occupied Ukrainian Crimea

In February 2022 Putin's Russia invaded Ukraine again.

Truth exists. Maga lies. Impunity of criminals and aggressors makes them stronger, bolder and invites them to come for more.

Edited February 19 by myata

[Scott75]

1 hour ago, myata said:

In February, 2014 Putin's Russia invaded and occupied Ukrainian Crimea

No, that's not what happened, despite what CNN was saying. I only know of a single western journalist who actually went to Crimea after it rejoined Russia to interview Crimeans on what actually happened, Canadian American Eva Bartlett. She wrote an article on her trip, which can be seen here:

https://www.mintpressnews.com/return-russia-crimea-story-referendum-lives-since/262247/

Quoting from her article:

**

In the evening, we stay in the home of Vlad’s friend Tata, a Russian woman who moved to Crimea in 2012.

Since there was so much hype in Western media about a Russian takeover of the peninsula, I ask the burning questions: Were Crimeans forced to take part in the referendum? What was the mood like around that time? Tata replied:

"I never saw so many people in my life go out to vote, of their own free will. There was a period before the referendum, maybe about two months, during which there were two holidays: International Women’s Day, March 8, and Defender of the Fatherland Day, February 23.

Normally, people would go away on vacation during these holidays. But that year, Crimeans didn’t go anywhere; they wanted to be sure they were here during the referendum. We felt the sense of a miracle about to happen. People were anxiously awaiting the referendum.

There were military tents in the city, but they were not erected by the military, but by local men. They would stand there every day, and people could come and sign a document calling for a referendum.

I went one day and asked if I could add my name but I couldn’t, because I have a Russian passport. Only Crimean citizens could sign it. This was the fair way to do it.

At that time, my husband was in America. One day, he was watching CNN and got scared and called me because he saw reports of soldiers in the streets, an ‘invasion’ by Russia.

The local navy came from Sevastopol to Yalta and anchored their ships off the coast, made a blockade to ensure no larger Ukrainian or other ships could come and attack.

But I never saw tanks, I never saw Russian soldiers. I never saw any of that in the city.”

**

[Scott75]

2 hours ago, myata said:

In February 2022 Putin's Russia invaded Ukraine again.

Again, that's not what happened. Former Swiss Intelligence Officer sets the record straight on what actually triggered Russia to starts its military operation in Ukraine in the following article:

https://scheerpost.com/2022/04/09/former-nato-military-analyst-blows-the-whistle-on-wests-ukraine-invasion-narrative/

Quoting from his article:

**

On February 17, President Joe Biden announces that Russia will attack Ukraine in the coming days. How does he know? Mystery… But since the 16th, the artillery shelling of the populations of Donbass has increased dramatically, as shown by the daily reports of OSCE observers. Naturally, neither the media, nor the European Union, nor NATO, nor any Western government reacts and intervenes. We will say later that this is Russian disinformation. In fact, it seems that the European Union and some countries purposely glossed over the massacre of the people of Donbass, knowing that it would provoke Russian intervention.

[snip]

 

In fact, as early as February 16, Joe Biden knows that the Ukrainians began to shell the civilian populations of Donbass, putting Vladimir Putin in front of a difficult choice: to help Donbass militarily and create an international problem or to sit idle and watch Russian speakers from the Donbass being run over.

If he decides to intervene, Vladimir Putin can invoke the international obligation of “  Responsibility To Protect  ” (R2P). But he knows that whatever its nature or scale, the intervention will trigger a shower of sanctions. Therefore, whether its intervention is limited to the Donbass or whether it goes further to put pressure on the West for the status of Ukraine, the price to be paid will be the same. This is what he explains in his speech on February 21.

That day, he acceded to the request of the Duma and recognized the independence of the two Republics of Donbass and, in the process, he signed treaties of friendship and assistance with them.

The Ukrainian artillery bombardments on the populations of Donbass continued and, on February 23, the two Republics requested military aid from Russia. On the 24th, Vladimir Putin invokes Article 51 of the United Nations Charter which provides for mutual military assistance within the framework of a defensive alliance.

In order to make the Russian intervention totally illegal in the eyes of the public we deliberately obscure the fact that the war actually started on February 16th. The Ukrainian army was preparing to attack the Donbass as early as 2021, as certain Russian and European intelligence services were well aware… The lawyers will judge.

**

[myata]

Truth exists. The whole world knows it. Liars lie. They will not rewrite the history. Maga lies.

We will now make the list of of Republicans who: 1) publicly 2) clearly and 3) in strongest possible terms condemn this treacherous and utterly false position and disassociate themselves from it. This is their last chance to redeem themselves, not the party long gone, in the eyes of history and posterity.

As of now, the list is empty. Please feel free to contribute.

[myata]

"Trump claims Ukraine started the war — a total disgrace against everything America represents," wrote conservative attorney Heath Mayo.

[robosmith]

9 hours ago, Scott75 said:

No, that's not what happened, despite what CNN was saying. I only know of a single western journalist who actually went to Crimea after it rejoined Russia to interview Crimeans on what actually happened, Canadian American Eva Bartlett. She wrote an article on her trip, which can be seen here:

https://www.mintpressnews.com/return-russia-crimea-story-referendum-lives-since/262247/

Quoting from her article:

**

In the evening, we stay in the home of Vlad’s friend Tata, a Russian woman who moved to Crimea in 2012.

Since there was so much hype in Western media about a Russian takeover of the peninsula, I ask the burning questions: Were Crimeans forced to take part in the referendum? What was the mood like around that time? Tata replied:

"I never saw so many people in my life go out to vote, of their own free will. There was a period before the referendum, maybe about two months, during which there were two holidays: International Women’s Day, March 8, and Defender of the Fatherland Day, February 23.

Normally, people would go away on vacation during these holidays. But that year, Crimeans didn’t go anywhere; they wanted to be sure they were here during the referendum. We felt the sense of a miracle about to happen. People were anxiously awaiting the referendum.

There were military tents in the city, but they were not erected by the military, but by local men. They would stand there every day, and people could come and sign a document calling for a referendum.

I went one day and asked if I could add my name but I couldn’t, because I have a Russian passport. Only Crimean citizens could sign it. This was the fair way to do it.

At that time, my husband was in America. One day, he was watching CNN and got scared and called me because he saw reports of soldiers in the streets, an ‘invasion’ by Russia.

The local navy came from Sevastopol to Yalta and anchored their ships off the coast, made a blockade to ensure no larger Ukrainian or other ships could come and attack.

But I never saw tanks, I never saw Russian soldiers. I never saw any of that in the city.”

**

So you got a "report" from "Vlad's friend Tata" and have mistaken that for objective news reporting. LMAO

She is in Russian occupied Crimea, and Vlad does not take kindly to people who tell the truth about HIS TAKEOVER.

OBVIOUSLY NOT objective reporting. Duh 

[Venandi]

The authors of the US Federalist Papers talked a lot about "inducements to war."

IMO, considering inducements to war is a good way of looking at circumstances dispassionately, creating a rational threat assessment and then developing contingency plans based on it. Isn't that what you do in business? Are business assessment partisan nonsense or are they grounded a realistic appraisal of what's likely, what's reasonable and what's possible. Do they consider intelligence, situation, mission etc or is it a hateful mashup of partisan BS packaged in over the top hateful rhetoric?

Let's just take a moment here... Crimea is the home of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, did anyone here actually think they would just shrug and say:

Now look at a map and consider the Russian propensity (and doctrine) of using land as a buffer against attack. Before any of this even started, did you seriously think that Russia would just smile and nod as Ukraine joined NATO and aligned itself with the west?

Now let's stretch absurdity to the breaking point and consider something even more basic... if a person were to look at all of this dispassionately and suggests that maybe (just maybe) it might be an itty bitty inducement to war does that make them a Russian plant, an asset, a spy, a sympathizer, or traitor? Or does it just make them someone who looked at a map and asked a question no one here wants to even consider.

Once again I find myself asking WTF did you think was going to happen?  

Edited February 19 by Venandi

[robosmith]

2 minutes ago, Venandi said:

The authors of the US Federalist Papers talked a lot about "inducements to war."

IMO, considering inducements to war is a good way of looking at circumstances dispassionately, creating a rational threat assessment and then developing contingency plans based on it. Isn't that what you do in business? Are business assessment partisan nonsense or are they grounded a realistic appraisal of what's likely, what's reasonable and what's possible. Do they consider intelligence, situation, mission etc or is it a hateful mashup of partisan BS packaged hateful rhetoric?

Let's just a moment here... Crimea is the home of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, did anyone here actually think they would just shrug and say:

Now look at a map and consider the Russian propensity (and doctrine) of using land as a buffer against attack. Before any of this even started, did you seriously think that Russia would just smile and nod as Ukraine joined NATO and aligned itself with the west?

Now let's stretch absurdity to the breaking point and consider something even more basic... if a person were to look at this dispassionately and suggests that maybe (just maybe) it might be it might be an an itty bitty inducement to war does that make them a Russian plant, an asset, a spy, a sympathizer, or traitor? Or does it just make them someone who looked at a map and asked a question no one here wants to even consider.

Once again I find myself asking WTF did you think was going to happen?  

Doesn't matter what posters here thought was going to happen. The FACT is Putin RENEGED on Russian security guarantees promised to Ukraine in the Budapest Memorandum and the USA DID NOT until now. 

You are just being Putin's PUPPET.

[Venandi]

So...

It doesn't matter what anyone thought was going to happen?

It doesn't matter what any rational assessment suggested was possible, likely, or even worthy of consideration? 

And, anyone looking at or even considering these issues is a puppet by virtue of having considered them?

Is the expectation that potentially hostile nations will abide by treaties the height of logical progressive thinking...  I don't even recall the memorandum including NATO membership for Ukraine but you can do your own homework on that. In fact I seem to recall there being serious concerns put forward about NATO expansion.

I think you should stick to sentences ending in duh / LMAO and stay far away from recruiting centres

 

 

 

Edited February 19 by Venandi

[Nationalist]

12 hours ago, robosmith said:

Yes ^insane. The ONLY things that "could" have avoided the war is Putin deciding NOT to invade OR Ukraine's SURRENDER.

Or perhaps...NATO and the USA not fcking around with Ukraine. Perhaps even Ukraine deciding to allow the ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine to maintain their language and culture...much like we do in Canada for Quebec.

[robosmith]

3 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Or perhaps...NATO and the USA not fcking around with Ukraine. Perhaps even Ukraine deciding to allow the ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine to maintain their language and culture...much like we do in Canada for Quebec.

You're a FOOL if you believe ^this matters to Putin. HE WANTS Ukrainian GAS off their Southern coast. 

And their crops, and maybe other natural resources like Lithium.

Because he is the world's wealthiest KLEPTOCRAT. 

Edited February 19 by robosmith

[Nationalist]

3 minutes ago, robosmith said:

You're a FOOL if you believe ^this matters to Putin. HE WANTS Ukrainian GAS off their Southern coast. 

And their crops, and maybe other natural resources like Lithium.

Because he is the world's wealthiest KLEPTOCRAT. 

And you know Putin's mind?

No...you don't.

Go play in the hiway robo.

[Legato]

6 minutes ago, robosmith said:

You're a FOOL if you believe ^this matters to Putin. HE WANTS Ukrainian GAS off their Southern coast. 

And their crops, and maybe other natural resources like Lithium.

Because he is the world's wealthiest KLEPTOCRAT. 

assertions without concrete evidence are like Duh's and LMAO's  missing their chrome plating.

 

[Venandi]

1 hour ago, robosmith said:

You're a FOOL

You call other people fools whilst believing a hostile country will honour commitments they agreed to even though they harboured grave concerns about NATO expansion at the time of signing? And then, you label anyone who factors that into an estimate of the situation (EOTS) to be a puppet and a fool... I stand in awe of your logic here.

Of course he wants the other stuff too... at this point I'd wager he wants all of it. This surprises you does it? It doesn't mean he gets though...

As Yoda would say: "a revelation to you his appetite is hmmm?" 

On second thought, Herb might mumble something like that after a nap too, but, it would only be profound by accident and logical by random chance.

Edited February 19 by Venandi

[myata]

2 hours ago, Venandi said:

Crimea is the home of the Russian Black Sea Fleet

You are starting with a lie, why would anyone respecting themselves and valuing their time bother to have a meaningful discussion? Territorial integrity of Ukraine was guaranteed by four guarantor states in exchange for the abandonment of the third largest nuclear arsenal at the time. The borders of Ukraine are recognized by the whole world, except a few most grotesque dictatorships counted on the fingers of one hand (and one has already fallen). Crimea is not the "home" but in one city in Crimea certain territory was leased, with a limited term, to Russia's Black Sea fleet now severely decimated.

The summary: you are a liar, unsmart (yes, there's a shorter synonym) at that as it takes just minutes to verify this at anyone's fingertips. Why would anyone bother to waste their time on such a case? Beats me.

Edited February 19 by myata

[Venandi]

18 minutes ago, myata said:

You are starting with a lie

OK, you win... I made it all up.

The primary headquarters of the Black Sea Fleet isn't Sevastopol and even if it was,  Sevastopol isn't located in Crimea, it's an island off the coast of Boston.

Crimea wasn't annexed because it's important either, it's because the borsht is tasty, the girls are hot and the Vodkas cold. Not only that, I share your utter astonishment that Russia wouldn't honour an agreement and think that anyone who even considered that to be a possibility is MAGA hyena of the highest order.  

How do you like me now? 

  

[myata]

3 minutes ago, Venandi said:

The primary headquarters of the Black Sea Fleet isn't Sevastopol and even if it was,  Sevastopol isn't located in Crimea

A liar who fails to admit the lie is a liar squared. And why did you stop your (dumb-) logical progression at the arbitrarily chosen point? Let's continue, shall we? Crimea is in Ukraine, Ukraine is in Europe and Europe is on planet Earth. Putin's fleet home is planet Earth! That explains everything, right? Liar^liar.

Edited February 19 by myata

[myata]

"Inducement of the rape by the victim". They're really up to novel and original ideas here, always.

F-g North American Iran. From Salem to liberty and back again.

Edited February 19 by myata

[robosmith]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

And you know Putin's mind?

No...you don't.

Go play in the hiway robo.

I know LOGIC and Putin's HISTORY. He STEALS everything he can get his hands on, and has oligarchs look after them.

2 hours ago, Legato said:

assertions without concrete evidence are like Duh's and LMAO's  missing their chrome plating.

 

I don't care what ^TROLLS believe cause you're NOT SERIOUS