U.S. Vice President, J.D. Vance, exposes the west's assault on religious freedom

[Videospirit]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

I am not sure what you are referring to.   

When I said some things are recorded as historical events and they don't mean God condones them, I was talking about only certain events, not everything that happened.

In ancient near eastern times for example, men often had multiple wives and concubines.  That was how they lived in those days.  It doesn't mean God approves of it.  

Ok. So the bible approving of suicide is not something you refute. You made it seem like you disagreed with the bible on that point.

[blackbird]

42 minutes ago, Videospirit said:

Ok. So the bible approving of suicide is not something you refute. You made it seem like you disagreed with the bible on that point.

No, I don't believe the Bible approves of suicide.  You are way off base on that.  No Christian should ever say suicide is not against the Bible.  

"Suicide is a permanent "solution" to temporary problems. It is so sad to hear news reports about teenagers who commit suicide after a relationship break up, or due to bullying at school, or due to some other trivial issue. While it obviously did not seem trivial to the person who committed suicide, in the grand scheme of things, there is nothing that warrants suicide. Problems that seem so overwhelming today will be looked back upon years later as virtually meaningless. Especially for the Christian, with eternity in mind, there is nothing that could happen in this world that would justify committing suicide.

The Bible mentions six people who committed suicide (Judges 9:54; 1 Samuel 31:4-6; 2 Samuel 17:23; 1 Kings 16:18; Matthew 27:5). None of them were righteous, to say the least. The Bible nowhere explicitly states, "it is a sin to commit suicide," but the Bible does condemn murder (Exodus 20:13). Suicide is "self-murder," therefore suicide is a sin since murder is a sin. Aside from the "do not commit murder" command, suicide is also a sin for the following two reasons, one theological and one practical: (1) it is God and God alone who has the right to determine life and death, and (2) suicide reveals a belief that God is not powerful enough to help you solve your problems.

The vast majority of people will agree with us that suicide is a sin. The debate begins, though, with the question of whether suicide is forgivable. Typically, a suicide-related question will be along the lines of: "For God to forgive us, we have to repent from our sins and confess our sins to God. If someone commits suicide, he/she has no opportunity to repent or confess. Therefore, suicide is not a forgivable sin. Anyone who commits suicide is sent straight to hell." There is one primary problem with this line of thought: it does not recognize that Jesus died for ALL of our sins. When God purchased us with the blood of Christ, ALL of our sins were paid for (1 Peter 1:19). If a person who has truly received Jesus Christ as Savior, thereby demonstrating that he/she has been redeemed, reconciled, forgiven, justified, etc., by God, commits suicide, the sin of suicide was covered by the blood of Christ. Now, we can question whether a true Christian could commit suicide, but, if a true Christian were to commit suicide, it would be forgiven. Verses that connect confession with forgiveness (such as 1 John 1:9) are referring to relational forgiveness between a believer and God, not the judicial forgiveness that was perfectly accomplished by the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ. No, suicide is not an unforgivable sin. Suicide is not greater than the price Jesus Christ paid with His atoning sacrifice."

What does the Bible say about suicide?

Edited February 22 by blackbird

[Videospirit]

47 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The Bible mentions six people who committed suicide (Judges 9:54; 1 Samuel 31:4-6; 2 Samuel 17:23; 1 Kings 16:18; Matthew 27:5). None of them were righteous, to say the least.

"None of them were righteous" is quite the statement. Especially when the next line is 

50 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The Bible nowhere explicitly states, "it is a sin to commit suicide,"

The only biblical justification this man uses to reach his conclusion, ignoring all other evidence in support of suicide in the bible, at least suicide guided by faith. (If the suicide is caused by depression rather than faith that your suicide is needed to redeem your sins or serves the good of others it's sinful for plenty of other reasons) is:

56 minutes ago, blackbird said:

but the Bible does condemn murder (Exodus 20:13). Suicide is "self-murder," therefore suicide is a sin since murder is a sin.

Except this is not an absolute condemnation of any act that causes someone to lose their life. Capital punishment is an explicit example of something god approves of. The bible does not contradict itself, therefor, the prohibition on murder must have context to what murder is that leaves open the possibility that suicide can be one of those permitted losses of life, and thus this verse alone cannot be used to contradict the verses that support sacrificing your life.

Resolving the contradiction requires faith, but my faith tells me that some suicides are noble. For "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." John 15:13 KJV

[Videospirit]

On 2/16/2025 at 6:06 PM, eyeball said:

You should follow your own advice. Secularism is to prevent being run by Christians, especially ones with your attitude.

Freedom FROM religion is even more important and if you think you're under assault now just try taking that away and see what happens.

Strictly speaking, secularism isn't about not having religion guide political policy in any way. It's about not having religious organizations hold political power. 

If the reason a politician supports a political policy is because of their religion, that's not anti-secular behaviour in and of itself.

But people of faith should never confuse "Making religious beliefs a law of the land." And "supporting a law of the land because of religious beliefs." Religion is not a justification for a law on its own, you need other reasons.

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Videospirit said:

Resolving the contradiction requires faith, but my faith tells me that some suicides are noble. For "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." John 15:13 KJV

You don't give much hope for people who might be contemplating suicide.  Sad really.  Really sad.

The Bible says our bodies belong to God.  Only God decides when life ends, not individuals.  It is always wrong to commit suicide.   MAID is another thing that is wrong and against the ten commandments.

You need to do some serious Bible study.  Google the subject and find out what the Bible says about suicide.

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Videospirit said:

my faith tells me that some suicides are noble.

Seriously, you have a lot of problems in your thinking.  I would advise you find a good Christian who knows the Bible and spend time with him over coffee discussing the Bible and these things.  You must be a new Christian. 

[Videospirit]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

Seriously, you have a lot of problems in your thinking.  I would advise you find a good Christian who knows the Bible and spend time with him over coffee discussing the Bible and these things.  You must be a new Christian. 

I have been raised Christian my entire life. Speaking with other Christians has only caused me to conclude that other Christians are not a good source of bible interpretations. I was originally raised as a Roman Catholic. As I grew older I came to conclude that the belief in papal supremacy central to the catholic faith is false. Now I don't consider myself part of any particular church, a non-denominational Christian. Only your own faith can determine the correct interpretation of the bible. You can seek guidance when confused and unsure, but you cannot put your faith in other Christians explanations of the bible, you must put your faith in Christ and let Christ guide you to the truth.

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Videospirit said:

I have been raised Christian my entire life. Speaking with other Christians has only caused me to conclude that other Christians are not a good source of bible interpretations. I was originally raised as a Roman Catholic. As I grew older I came to conclude that the belief in papal supremacy central to the catholic faith is false. Now I don't consider myself part of any particular church, a non-denominational Christian. Only your own faith can determine the correct interpretation of the bible. You can seek guidance when confused and unsure, but you cannot put your faith in other Christians explanations of the bible, you must put your faith in Christ and let Christ guide you to the truth.

I agree with most of what you say.  Just don't agree that you cannot learn from other Christians.  

We can learn much from learned, mature Christian writers and wise theologians.  

The book I mentioned, Major Bible Themes by Lewis Sperry Chafer, is an excellent book on theology.  It is online at the website named after him.  He passed away in 1952.

Also, I have learned a lot by doing a search on subjects and reading articles on various subjects on the Bible.  There are a lot of difficult topics that are not easy to understand on your own.

The website gotquestions.org seems to have good articles on a lot of Bible subjects.  I often do a search on a topic and find they have good articles on the topic

Edited February 23 by blackbird

[blackbird]

3 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I was originally raised as a Roman Catholic.

Well, we have something in common.  I also was raised as a Roman Catholic.  I heard the gospel over the radio one evening when I was 35 yrs old and was saved through that by God's grace through faith.

I also am non-denominational, although I attended several different denominations over the years.  It is very difficult these days to find a suitable church where I live.  

Edited February 23 by blackbird

[herbie]

Lack of Evil-gelical congregations in the neighbourhood?

Edited February 23 by herbie

[blackbird]

16 hours ago, Videospirit said:

you must put your faith in Christ and let Christ guide you to the truth.

That is only true insofar as what you believe is in agreement with Scriptures as a whole (the King James Bible).  How do you know if you are following the Holy Spirit as he speaks through Holy Scripture or following Demonic spirits?  There are many churches which have drifted away from the Bible and into great error.

There are demonic spirits which plant thoughts in Christian's minds.  Some Christians might think they are immune from the influence of demonic spirits, but that is simply not true.  There is a very good book called "War On The Saints" by Jessie Penn-Lewis, which I have partly read and not finished yet.  It is available on Amazon for a reasonable price.  It is "a history of Satanic deceptions in Christianity and the conflict between good and evil".

Edited February 23 by blackbird

[TreeBeard]

On 2/21/2025 at 8:25 AM, blackbird said:

Could God be using Trump to pass judgment on Canada?

 

Sure.  Or maybe the Team Canada hockey team was used by God to tell America “no”. 

[impartialobserver]

I live 250 yards from a methodist church. It has been in continuous operation since 1972. Interesting how there is an assault on religious freedom and yet the churchgoers have not changed their ways since I moved into the neighborhood in jan 2013. There are just as many who attend the church today as in Jan 2013.. It would seem as if the OP is a tad oversensitive. 

[User]

On 2/27/2025 at 1:11 PM, impartialobserver said:

I live 250 yards from a methodist church. It has been in continuous operation since 1972. Interesting how there is an assault on religious freedom and yet the churchgoers have not changed their ways since I moved into the neighborhood in jan 2013. There are just as many who attend the church today as in Jan 2013.. It would seem as if the OP is a tad oversensitive. 

I live 250 yards from a house. It has been there since 1989. Interesting how there is a problem with homelessness and yet there is a home right there since I moved into this neighborhood. 

It would seem any complaints about homelessness are a tad oversensitive. 

 

[User]

On 2/21/2025 at 11:48 AM, Videospirit said:

Did you know that the bible glorifies suicide? The bible considers sacrifice to be a good deed, and it considers suicide with a good reason to be a noble sacrifice. Judas suicide after betraying Christ is exalted as Judas achieving Redemption. Assisted suicide is included as well. The bible speaks of a man dying from being hit by a stone, who orders his assistant to strike him dead to prevent his death from being blamed on a woman who threw a stone at him as another noble sacrifice. One whose health is so bad, their mere existence forces them to sloth, and who chooses to sacrifice themselves to not burden their friends and family and free themself from sloth is something the bible considers a noble sacrifice. So while our faith compels us to take action in the case of abortion, it's almost the opposite in the case of suicide.

No, the Bible does not glorify suicide. No, the Bible does not consider suicide with a good reason to be a noble sacrifice. 

You are conflating martyrdom with suicide when you use the word sacrifice. 

I am not sure what you base claiming that Judas suicide was exhalted. That is your claim here, that suicide is somehow good. 

I need specific verses on the rest. 

You want to put forth doctrinal positions, like suicide being good and OK, you need more than this. Especially when this flies in the face of every major denomination in Christianity. 

[User]

On 2/22/2025 at 5:00 PM, Videospirit said:

I have been raised Christian my entire life. Speaking with other Christians has only caused me to conclude that other Christians are not a good source of bible interpretations. I was originally raised as a Roman Catholic. As I grew older I came to conclude that the belief in papal supremacy central to the catholic faith is false. Now I don't consider myself part of any particular church, a non-denominational Christian. Only your own faith can determine the correct interpretation of the bible. You can seek guidance when confused and unsure, but you cannot put your faith in other Christians explanations of the bible, you must put your faith in Christ and let Christ guide you to the truth.

This is like saying other mechanics are not a good source of knowledge on fixing cars when you barely know how to change the oil. But you will be able to replace the transmission and/or other major repairs on your car by simply believing you can and that only you can determine the correct way to replace the transmission. Certainly not any of those other mechanics who put out a YouTube video or a instruction manual. Can't trust any of them. 

Um... no. 

You don't have to abdicate all your reasoning to another person to study the Bible, but there are in fact Christian theologians who have spent their entire lives dedicated to studying the Bible, and the history of the Bible. To dismiss them all as not being a good source is absurd.