JIA5342 and the Helicopter Accident KDCA

Legato · February 11

18 minutes ago, Venandi said:

You should probably stop snacking on those carrots, one of the first symptoms of excessive consumption is failing to remember your name.

Based on the video (actually other views), it looks like the left main gear collapsed... nothing to do with Trump or ATC.

If it had been the right main gear this thread would have two extra pages of Duh's LMAO's and inebriated chatter.

Venandi · February 12

On 2/11/2025 at 1:04 PM, Legato said:

If it had been the right main gear this thread would have two extra pages of Duh's LMAO's and inebriated chatter.

Damn... missed it, wish I said that.

robosmith · February 12

On 2/11/2025 at 9:04 AM, Legato said:

If it had been the right main gear this thread would have two extra pages of Duh's LMAO's and inebriated chatter.

Don't worry, you can still do your usual TROLLING here.

Venandi · February 18

First video I've seen of the accident in Toronto.

Given the strong crosswind from the right this is clearly Trump's fault duh.

https://www.foxnews.com/video/6368998633112

gatomontes99 · February 18

2 hours ago, Venandi said:

First video I've seen of the accident in Toronto.

Given the strong crosswind from the right this is clearly Trump's fault duh.

https://www.foxnews.com/video/6368998633112

Dollars to doughnuts the flying pilot was new to jets.

robosmith · February 19

9 hours ago, Venandi said:

First video I've seen of the accident in Toronto.

Given the strong crosswind from the right this is clearly Trump's fault duh.

https://www.foxnews.com/video/6368998633112

Just bad luck the aviation disasters accelerated right after Musk forced the FAA chief out and Trump forgot to replace him.

I guess FOS LIES didn't tell you about that. LMAO

gatomontes99 · February 19

3 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Just bad luck the aviation disasters accelerated right after Musk forced the FAA chief out and Trump forgot to replace him.

I guess FOS LIES didn't tell you about that. LMAO

Ok, tell us what exactly the cuts did that directly caused a helicopter pilot to fly into the path of an RJ, a Mexican jet to have a catastrophic flight control failure and a delta landing gear or Wong to separate from the fuselage. Id love to hear that so we can fix it. After all, your the genius that knows how all these things are connected. So quit holding back and detail the chain reactions that caused this.

Aristides · February 19

Video of the Delta aircraft in Toronto looks like it had a very high rate of decent when it touched down. The question will be why? The RJ has quite a narrow landing gear, did they touch a wing tip and if so, why? All questions that should be answered by the flight recorder, cockpit voice recorder and the crew themselves.

Edited February 19 by Aristides

User · February 19

1 hour ago, robosmith said:

Just bad luck the aviation disasters accelerated right after Musk forced the FAA chief out and Trump forgot to replace him.

I guess FOS LIES didn't tell you about that. LMAO

Show me the numbers you are using to claim they accelerated/

Venandi · February 19

This appears to be the result of a hard landing, you see very little flare in the last 50 feet, there was blowing snow across the runway as well which can be problematic in judging flare height.

It will be interesting to see some of the initial assessments, I'll post them when they come out. In the interim, no amount of duh's and LMAO's is likely to put Trump at the controls and guessing at cause factors in the absence of information is unwise.

Edited February 19 by Venandi

Venandi · February 19

Ok, here ya go.... that was quick eh?

If this turns out to be a maintenance issue I predict the fools who play the duh and LMAO game will fall silent as their counterparts opposite point out that the inspections and maintenance work took place on Biden's watch.

This guy simplifies things pretty well. Being as it's 16 minutes long and a bit technical though Herb will need a nap, Doggiedoo won't understand it and Roboduh won't even watch:

Edited February 19 by Venandi

gatomontes99 · February 19

1 hour ago, Venandi said:

Ok, here ya go.... that was quick eh?

If this turns out to be a maintenance issue I predict the fools who play the duh and LMAO game will fall silent as their counterparts opposite point out that the inspections and maintenance work took place on Biden's watch.

This guy simplifies things pretty well. Being as it's 16 minutes long and a bit technical though Herb will need a nap, Doggiedoo won't understand it and Roboduh won't even watch:

There are far too many problems with this guy's analysis for me to hit them all. However, I will hit him pretty hard on the crosswind technique.

He assumes that the GA technique of slipping the aircraft at landing is appropriate. I don't know that is the case for the CRJ900. Some aircraft require no wing dip and allow for side loading of the tires on touchdown. I would doubt that that is the CRJ's SOP, but it should be noted that he is assuming he knows the correct crosswind technique.

Part of me thinks something other than the gear hit the ground first or at the same time as the gear. You see some snow fly about 1/3rd of the way out under the wing at touchdown. Couple that with the assumed fact that they had drifted left of centerline and might have attempted to correct for that, they might have been over banked.

I will also add that you see a significant ground speed drop over the runway. There are a lot of very young and inexperienced pilots at all of these regional right now. A scenario where an inexperienced pilot reduced the thrust at the standard height above touchdown and having not had enough power to maintain the appropriate approach speed could have put this aircraft in a position where it lost lift and descended rapidly in the last 50 feet.

A lot of these regional teach power settings for approach. It is a short cut to help inexperienced pilots fly stable approaches. Strong winds require adding power to maintain an appropriate glide path.

That still wouldn't explain how the gear and wing came off though. That mistake is made every day and has been made every day since the days of Orville and Wilber. Why did this airplane come apart and none of the others? I'm going to say the two most likely culprits are maintenance or the wing contacted the ground. The firm landing is going to be a contributing factor though.

Lastly, this is all speculation and talk. Nothing I said is factual to this case. I just threw out some generalized statements that might apply.

Venandi · February 19

3 hours ago, gatomontes99 said:

... could have put this aircraft in a position where it lost lift and descended rapidly in the last 50 feet.

That seems reasonable and it also matches what some of the pax reported feeling prior to impact. Some discussions seem to focus on RMLG collapse as a result of it... too early to know, time will tell and besides, I usually guess these things wrong anyway.

This fellow generally produces a worthwhile product with decent overlays in a timely fashion and updates them as more information comes out. I've often see his work on aviation forums where they serve as the basis for SA and discussion as opposed to being accepted as fact or causal.

Other than bashing Trump or Biden (or both), I'm not sure how much interest there actually is in the technical aspects here, I'll post his (expected) update when it comes out regardless (for those interested) and simply consider the Roboduh partisan flak as part of the process of posting anything. Cheers.

Edited February 19 by Venandi

CdnFox · February 19

6 hours ago, Venandi said:

If this turs out to be a maintenance issue I predict the fools who play the duh and LMAO game will fall silent as their counterparts opposite point out that the inspections and maintenance work took place on Biden's watch.

That's delightfully optimistic. If that's what it turns out to be then those guys will say "Trump should have KNOWN that biden was incompetent and all work done under Biden would be crap and fixed it when he became president but he did nothing. NOTHING!!!"

gatomontes99 · February 25

Trump saved the day while Canda nearly screwed us!

Did you see how the well trained and more efficient ATC and SWA pilots prevented a deadly accident while the Canadian made jet just taxied right onto an active runway! Someone should ask Trudeau why he is trying to kill Americans!

Do you think liberals will get the sarcasm?

gatomontes99 · February 25

Now, to what really happened at KMDW today.

https://www.liveatc.net/archive.php?

Start at 14:50

FlexJet 560 is cleared to taxi via Alpha, Foxtrot and Hold Short of Runway 4L. Later they are cleared to taxi via 4L, cross 31L and hold short of 31C.

XLJ560 followed all of the instructions except hold short of 31C. You'll notice that they are confused about the instructions from the very beginning. They asked for clarification for every set of instructions they were given and were corrected on the last set of instructions because they read back that they were going to cross 31C. They did read back and appear to understand the instructions.

Here is the airport diagram with arrows and a read line at the last point they were told to stop.

Pilot confusion appears to be a factor. Another factor is runway markings. On taxiways, every runway is preceded by a "hold short line." On runways, they don't put hold short lines for crossing runways. The exception to that rule is based on land and hold short operations. In some cases, the runways are long enough that it can be reasonably expected that all aircraft can stop prior to the crossing runway (or taxiway in some cases). When that is the case, a hold short line will be painted prior to the runway (or taxiway). Runway 31C is not far enough down the runway to get that type of indicator. Most likely, the pilots didn't realize they were crossing a runway because they didn't see the Hold Short Line.

However, they should have known where they were. The Challenger 350 is equipped with large screens and a moving map display. In addition, they pilots almost certainly us JeppFD that is on an iPad and has a moving map display.

BBA_FW17_08-Challenger350cockpit_V4_0.jp

KMDW can be a very busy airport. It was not that busy at the time of the incident. Sometimes pilots don't even get a chance to read back taxi clearances. Frankly, there is no good excuse for entering an active runway without clearance.

What really should be the narrative right now is not DEI...not cuts to nonessential FAA personnel...the narrative should be that single pilot commercial operations would be an inherently unsafe policy. The SWA crew was able to execute a flawless rejected landing and save all of the passengers on board precisely because there were two pilots on board. Two pilots doubled their chances of seeing the offending aircraft. Two pilots doubled their chances of making a good decision. Two pilots doubled their chances of rejecting the landing safely. Further, even thought the Challenger had two pilots, had it only been one pilot, these types of incidents would occur more often. For every event like this, there are countless events that are stopped because one pilot saw the problem the other pilot was creating.

Also, stop making these things political. They aren't. The FAA sets the minimum government standard. Pilots and controls that can only meet the minimum government standard suck. The incidents that happened recently are unrelated and unaffected by anything Biden or Trump did. Since the days of Bush pilots, controllers and airlines have been begging the FAA to modernize. They haven't. It didn't happen under Bush or Trump and it didn't happen under Obama or Biden. It's not political.

CdnFox · February 25

42 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said:

Now, to what really happened at KMDW today.

https://www.liveatc.net/archive.php?

Start at 14:50

FlexJet 560 is cleared to taxi via Alpha, Foxtrot and Hold Short of Runway 4L. Later they are cleared to taxi via 4L, cross 31L and hold short of 31C.

XLJ560 followed all of the instructions except hold short of 31C. You'll notice that they are confused about the instructions from the very beginning. They asked for clarification for every set of instructions they were given and were corrected on the last set of instructions because they read back that they were going to cross 31C. They did read back and appear to understand the instructions.

Here is the airport diagram with arrows and a read line at the last point they were told to stop.

Pilot confusion appears to be a factor. Another factor is runway markings. On taxiways, every runway is preceded by a "hold short line." On runways, they don't put hold short lines for crossing runways. The exception to that rule is based on land and hold short operations. In some cases, the runways are long enough that it can be reasonably expected that all aircraft can stop prior to the crossing runway (or taxiway in some cases). When that is the case, a hold short line will be painted prior to the runway (or taxiway). Runway 31C is not far enough down the runway to get that type of indicator. Most likely, the pilots didn't realize they were crossing a runway because they didn't see the Hold Short Line.

However, they should have known where they were. The Challenger 350 is equipped with large screens and a moving map display. In addition, they pilots almost certainly us JeppFD that is on an iPad and has a moving map display.

KMDW can be a very busy airport. It was not that busy at the time of the incident. Sometimes pilots don't even get a chance to read back taxi clearances. Frankly, there is no good excuse for entering an active runway without clearance.

What really should be the narrative right now is not DEI...not cuts to nonessential FAA personnel...the narrative should be that single pilot commercial operations would be an inherently unsafe policy. The SWA crew was able to execute a flawless rejected landing and save all of the passengers on board precisely because there were two pilots on board. Two pilots doubled their chances of seeing the offending aircraft. Two pilots doubled their chances of making a good decision. Two pilots doubled their chances of rejecting the landing safely. Further, even thought the Challenger had two pilots, had it only been one pilot, these types of incidents would occur more often. For every event like this, there are countless events that are stopped because one pilot saw the problem the other pilot was creating.

Also, stop making these things political. They aren't. The FAA sets the minimum government standard. Pilots and controls that can only meet the minimum government standard suck. The incidents that happened recently are unrelated and unaffected by anything Biden or Trump did. Since the days of Bush pilots, controllers and airlines have been begging the FAA to modernize. They haven't. It didn't happen under Bush or Trump and it didn't happen under Obama or Biden. It's not political.

American pilot unfortunately. No matter how good the gear, garbage in garbage out.

(snicker! )

You're right, joking aside these things shoulnd't be made political, it's nonsense. People make mistakes, and unless someone can show that there's substantially more mistakes and directly tie it to a political policy it's all just nonsense.

robosmith · February 25

On 2/19/2025 at 2:27 AM, Venandi said:

Ok, here ya go.... that was quick eh?

If this turns out to be a maintenance issue I predict the fools who play the duh and LMAO game will fall silent as their counterparts opposite point out that the inspections and maintenance work took place on Biden's watch.

This guy simplifies things pretty well. Being as it's 16 minutes long and a bit technical though Herb will need a nap, Doggiedoo won't understand it and Roboduh won't even watch:

Sorry to disappoint you, but I already saw most all ^this information on other videos and figured out what happened.

A friend of mine who mechanics for United at O'hare told me the wings on Boeing jets are one solid piece, so I guess the Bombardier jets are not that well built, or the right wing would have stayed attached, and maybe burned everyone.