"The province ordered us to destroy our data!" - Whistleblower medical expert exposes BC NDP safe supply corruption

[CdnFox]

HUNT: “The province ordered us to destroy our data — I objected!”

 

Dr. Julian Somers, director of the Centre for Applied Research in Mental Health and Addiction at Simon Fraser University, says that despite the thin evidence in support of these experimental programs, the BC government has aggressively expanded them — and retaliated against dissenting researchers.

Safer supply programs claim to reduce overdoses and deaths by distributing free addictive drugs — typically 8-milligram tablets of hydromorphone, an opioid as potent as heroin — to dissuade addicts from accessing riskier street substances. Yet, a growing number of doctors say these programs are deeply misguided — and widely defrauded.

Ultimately, Somers argues, safer supply is exacerbating the country’s addiction crisis.

 

And if you dare speak out your attacked or canceled. This is more evidence of the ongoing tendency for governments to repress scientific evidence that doesn't suit their ideological agenda while at the same time demanding that people follow the science.

[Radiorum]

Simon Fraser University was the location of the famous Rat Park experiments in the 1970s – which led to the conclusion that “the opposite of addiction is not sobriety, but connection.”

A 3-minute video about this:

 

 

In 2015, Johann Hari gave a TED talk referencing those experiments to continue with the theme that the best way to treat addicts is by supplanting the all-consuming bond made in the brain with the drug with healthier and more meaningful connections, and developing relationships with supportive people.

 

 

Just wondering if Dr. Somers belongs to the same camp – that recovery depends on reconnecting addicts with society.

[Radiorum]

I believe the only way to recover from addiction is to completely sever all contact with whatever you are addicted to. Then, your brain can start healing - to recover from addiction your brain must be rewired. As long as whatever you are addicted to continues to stimulate your brain, this can't happen. Rewiring requires making new neural circuits that start to work in place of the one the addict was stuck in. This takes time and lots of support.

 

[CdnFox]

52 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

Simon Fraser University was the location of the famous Rat Park experiments in the 1970s – which led to the conclusion that “the opposite of addiction is not sobriety, but connection.”

A 3-minute video about this:

 

 

In 2015, Johann Hari gave a TED talk referencing those experiments to continue with the theme that the best way to treat addicts is by supplanting the all-consuming bond made in the brain with the drug with healthier and more meaningful connections, and developing relationships with supportive people.

 

 

Just wondering if Dr. Somers belongs to the same camp – that recovery depends on reconnecting addicts with society.

That work is seriously flawed. And as we saw in the article that I posted medical professionals were being pushed to come to socially acceptable conclusions.

It can be no doubt that support is a critical part of recovery. And there is no doubt that Addiction has a mental component, otherwise people wouldn't be able to become addicted to gambling. But to draw the conclusion from that that addiction is based almost entirely on social connection is not realistic.

If what they were saying was true then nobody was strong supports would become addicted, and literally everything would be addictive to the degree It was stimulating and pleasurable for those who were disconnected.

If anything most of the prevailing Research indicates that a strong desire to change is probably one of the greatest components of  whether or not the person will be successful regardless of the method

Effective treatment has to address everything, the compulsive Behavior, The physical addiction where applicable, the support network but most of all the desire for change.

As to Portugal, which is often used dishonestly by those who wish to present a false argument, what the article failed to mention and what most people on the left fail to note is that their treatment methods are combined with compulsory arrest and detainment for addicts who aren't willingly going through a program. Is very strongly incentivizes the addict to make their treatment work. Turns out you get further in life with a carrot and a big stick than you do with just the carrot  

[Radiorum]

4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

But to draw the conclusion from that that addiction is based almost entirely on social connection is not realistic.

I wouldn't say entirely, but it is an important element of recovery.

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

If what they were saying was true then nobody was strong supports would become addicted

But addiction is a sneaky thing. You think you're fine, and then - your brain is taken over.

6 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

a strong desire to change is probably one of the greatest components of  whether or not the person will be successful regardless of the method

Agree, that is the most important thing.

 

[CdnFox]

5 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

I wouldn't say entirely, but it is an important element of recovery.

 

Having an emotional support group is important for every difficult change in your life whether it be shedding addiction or even just parenting. So from that element is true but I don't think it's anywhere near where that article is trying to suggest with regards to addiction

 

6 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

But addiction is a sneaky thing. You think you're fine, and then - your brain is taken over.

That doesn't change what I said. If anything that makes what I said even more relevant. Your brain shouldn't be able to distinguish between that which makes you addictive and that which wouldn't, it would be focused entirely on the pleasurable sensation and amplified by your disconnect as mentioned in the article. So why isn't everything that's fun addictive to the disconnected?

7 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

Agree, that is the most important thing.

👍

[eyeball]

From the article;

Safer supply programs claim to reduce overdoses and deaths by distributing free addictive drugs — typically 8-milligram tablets of hydromorphone, an opioid as potent as heroin...

These programs also claim they provide addicts with what they want which is real heroin so what governments need to do is supply real heroin safely.

But that's enabling gasp conservatives to which progressives cringe as evidenced by keeping supply limited to fake heroin.

And if you dare speak out your attacked or canceled. This is more evidence of the ongoing tendency for governments to repress scientific evidence that doesn't suit their ideological agenda while at the same time demanding that people follow the science.

You should see how quickly you get attacked and cancelled for enabling.  Which is evidence of the never-ending tendency of conservative ideological agendas to be morally panicked.

Except for nicotine and alcohol of course, they're entirely different - sacred or something.

[Radiorum]

14 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

So why isn't everything that's fun addictive to the disconnected?

Well, we can only handle one addiction at a time.

[CdnFox]

15 minutes ago, eyeball said:

From the article;

Safer supply programs claim to reduce overdoses and deaths by distributing free addictive drugs — typically 8-milligram tablets of hydromorphone, an opioid as potent as heroin...

These programs also claim they provide addicts with what they want which is real heroin so what governments need to do is supply real heroin safely.

But that's enabling gasp conservatives to which progressives cringe as evidenced by keeping supply limited to fake heroin.

And if you dare speak out your attacked or canceled. This is more evidence of the ongoing tendency for governments to repress scientific evidence that doesn't suit their ideological agenda while at the same time demanding that people follow the science.

You should see how quickly you get attacked and cancelled for enabling.  Which is evidence of the never-ending tendency of conservative ideological agendas to be morally panicked.

Except for nicotine and alcohol of course, they're entirely different - sacred or something.

Sorry kiddo but that's already been proven to be bullshit. 

Your argument is that safe supply only works if you give them unsafe supplies because that's what they really want.  Which proves safe supply doesnt' work if you're correct. 

And the only people doing the cancelling are on the left.  

And nicotine and alcohol can be used safely and responsibly, and are BOTH heavily controlled substances. You can't use fentynal safely .

Once again a leftie is very happy to see people dead by the thousands rather than give up their disproven ideology, 

Edited November 22, 2024 by CdnFox

[Radiorum]

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

that is absolutely not true 

Yeah, now that I think about it, alcoholics often smoke

[CdnFox]

6 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

Yeah, now that I think about it, alcoholics often smoke

And may also be addicted to gambling or another type of vice.  Sadly enough. 

[eyeball]

Real heroin...like real nicotine and real alcohol - produced and distributed just as safely and even more importantly just as morally is the only way to go.

Heroin can be quite safe when it's produced and used safely, just go ask Keith Richards.

[Legato]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Heroin can be quite safe when it's produced and used safely, just go ask Keith Richards.

He died 40 years ago.

[CdnFox]

9 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Real heroin...like real nicotine and real alcohol - produced and distributed just as safely and even more importantly just as morally is the only way to go.

 

But that's not what they want. That's not what they buy on the street. You've already admitted that anything less than what they want isn't going to work.

The whole thing has been an utter failure and is actually produced more addicts and the death toll has soared through the roof. 

[Radiorum]

7 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

The whole thing has been an utter failure and is actually produced more addicts and the death toll has soared through the roof. 

You'll need to provide your sources for these claims as the evidence is just emerging.

[eyeball]

What they want to buy on the street is heroin. What they get however is dangerous crap that's laced with fentanyl.

The government needs to get in touch with Keith Richards supplier.

Trying to interfere in the market by stopping it always makes things worse. But this is olde well understood ground long since gone over. Booze is legal now because of the unsustainable cost of stamping it out and of course because leaving it in the hands of criminals also killed people when adding shit to their product.

[CdnFox]

43 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

You'll need to provide your sources for these claims as the evidence is just emerging.

I have many many times. We have posted many articles here quoting police and school health workers and others who know that the people receiving safe supply sell their drugs to the cartels who then sell it to high school students. Then the addicts use the money to go by the drugs they want which are dangerous and hard and you'll notice that the actual number of deaths since these programs started skyrocketed

You can find the information yourself in 10 seconds with a couple of simple web searches, I'm not interested in sea lioning

[Radiorum]

6 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I have many many times. We have posted many articles here quoting police and school health workers and others who know that the people receiving safe supply sell their drugs to the cartels who then sell it to high school students. Then the addicts use the money to go by the drugs they want which are dangerous and hard and you'll notice that the actual number of deaths since these programs started skyrocketed

You'll excuse me if I don't take your word for it.

 

7 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

ou can find the information yourself in 10 seconds

What I have found is that in one program:

Quote

those who received safe-supply prescriptions were 55 percent less likely to die of an overdose after one day in the program and 89 percent less likely to die of overdose after a week in the program.

https://www.cascadepbs.org/news/2024/07/could-bcs-safe-drug-supply-experiment-work-washington

[CdnFox]

Just now, Radiorum said:

You'll excuse me if I don't take your word for it.drug-supply-experiment-work-washington

No, willful ignorance it sounds like something that you would subscribe to. Easy enough to look up. By the way, shocker but Washington is not actually in Canada. I know maps are hard

1 minute ago, Radiorum said:

What I have found is that in one program:

Now you just lying. If you were actually attempting to search for the results of the Canadian drug programs we've seen here in British Columbia you would not have come across that article without first going over about 40 articles that pointed out the problems with ours

 Let's make a bet.  I think you're a lying sack of shit who's dishonest as the day is long. And you think you are not.

So if I post three articles discussing what I said above about the British Columbia safe supply experiment you agree that referring to you as a lying sack of shit who is as dishonest as the day is long is appropriate.

Or you can back down it admit you were full of crap to begin with.

By the way, the NDP already canceled the program citing the fact that it was causing serious problems just like this

[Radiorum]

17 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Washington is not actually in Canada.

it was an article about importing BC's program to Washington state

18 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

you would not have come across that article without first going over about 40 articles that pointed out the problems with ours

I just went with the first article I found.

18 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Now you just lying.

 

18 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

you're a lying sack of shit

 

19 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

you as a lying sack of shit who is as dishonest as the day is long

 

19 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

you were full of crap

 

I find this so fascinating. I remember something I read once - about a good man being a honest man - that honesty was the best virtue. And I know that the man looked down upon is the man whose word is not good. So, I guess you think the worst insult you can give to me is to say I am lying. (It's not just you, it's others on this forum.) But, of course, I am not. But I guess you feel that that is your best attack. 

If one has no basis for an argument to refute any of my points, and resorts to ad hominem attacks, they occupy the very bottom rung of the hierarchy of disagreement.

[Radiorum]

15 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

about a good man being a honest man

When the Scottish want to give the ultimate compliment, they will say, "Now, there's an honest man."

[WestCanMan]

7 hours ago, Radiorum said:

Simon Fraser University was the location of the famous Rat Park experiments in the 1970s – which led to the conclusion that “the opposite of addiction is not sobriety, but connection.”

A 3-minute video about this:

 

 

In 2015, Johann Hari gave a TED talk referencing those experiments to continue with the theme that the best way to treat addicts is by supplanting the all-consuming bond made in the brain with the drug with healthier and more meaningful connections, and developing relationships with supportive people.

 

 

Just wondering if Dr. Somers belongs to the same camp – that recovery depends on reconnecting addicts with society.

I can't even comprehend how this post came from the same person as all your other posts. Did your mom write that for you? 

[WestCanMan]

Quote

“The province ordered us to destroy our data!”

2019: "You sound ridiculous. An accusation that serious comes with a high burden of truth." 

2022: "Wtf else is new?"

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Radiorum said:

it was an article about importing BC's program to Washington state

So you felt the reasonable thing to do was not to take BC's actual results but to take results from a different place that is just beginning the experiment And use that in a discussion about bC's actual results.

You've got to be kidding me

Quote

I just went with the first article I found.

I don't believe that's true for a moment

I tried every way to get that to come up first without actually typing in the title or something close and couldn't.  The closest i got still had gov't websites and this article before it

How big a problem is diversion of hydromorphone?

 

Prince George RCMP said last month that a recent seizure of thousands of pills included morphine and hydromorphone, two drugs that are part of B.C.’s safe supply program.

 

Vancouver police Deputy Chief Fiona Wilson told a House of Commons committee this week that 50 per cent of hydromorphone seizures in B.C. had been diverted from “safe supply” drugs.

How does B.C.'s safe supply program work — and is it being abused? | Vancouver Sun

So it would appear that you're being dishonest

 

Quote

I find this so fascinating. I remember something I read once - about a good man being a honest man - that honesty was the best virtue. And I know that the man looked down upon is the man whose word is not good.

you should have listened

The evidence is pretty clear. There are literally hundreds of stories over the last two years across Canada discussing the failure of the BC drug program, including one from a reporter who embedded in the community and gave detailed blow by blow commentary about how the drugs were being diverted and people were still buying the illegal drugs. There are statements from the RCMP, there are statements from other experts

And yet you claim that the only article you could find was one from Washington about an incomplete project

Kid. There is no universe in which that is the truth

 

Quote

If one has no basis for an argument to refute any of my points, and resorts to ad hominem attacks, they occupy the very bottom rung of the hierarchy of disagreement.

But there is basis. And by being dishonest you invite critique which is not the same as ad hominem. When you lie an honest person will call you out for being a liar and point out where you lied. Which is what I have done. That is not ad hominem that is not what that word means.

No reasonable person could have searched Google for information regarding BC's drug supply being diverted to Illegal markets and have that article pop up as the first one they found. Even my mother could do better than that and she still refers to the microwave as the big clock in the kitchen

[herbie]

Our resident addiction experts will tell you the way is not to try new approaches that might work it's to
Punish them!
It didn't work for 100 years because we didn't punish them hard enough. That brick wall will crack if you only beat your head against it even harder!

The people who won't use safe supply and safe use sites are still dying, so that means the safe supply and use sites don't work at all. [/sarc]