User Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 5 minutes ago, Radiorum said: Your allegation (offered without evidence) does not represent the biggest threat to transgender persons. We were not talking about the biggest threat to transgender persons. So what? You were trying to assert this stuff never happens. Are you standing by that, do you really need me to go get you an example? 7 minutes ago, Radiorum said: So, when someone tells you who they are, believe them. Well, except when they tell you they only have 1 leg... I 100% believe people can and do have a mental disorder or temporary confusions with believing they are something they are not... the point is that it doesn't actually make it so. Quote
Radiorum Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 2 minutes ago, User said: We were not talking about the biggest threat to transgender persons. So what? You were saying parents and care-givers were the threat. I disagreed, with evidence. 3 minutes ago, User said: You were trying to assert this stuff never happens. I never say "never." Nothing is ever black and white. I'm sure you can find anecdotes of less-than-perfect parents, but that is not news, and that does not take into account the larger reality of being transgender. Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. 5 minutes ago, User said: I 100% believe people can and do have a mental disorder or temporary confusions with believing they are something they are not... the point is that it doesn't actually make it so. Do you know what they call it when you start with a desired conclusion and word backwards from it? Rather than follow the evidence and logic to where it leads. That's called pseudoscience. Your position is pseudoscientific. Quote
User Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 1 minute ago, Radiorum said: You were saying parents and care-givers were the threat. I disagreed, with evidence. No, you are the one trying to change the discussion. I merely pointed out what parents and teachers and others were doing. I did not say they were "the threat" 2 minutes ago, Radiorum said: I never say "never." Nothing is ever black and white. And yet you said: "The major problem with your position is that you (incorrectly) believe that adults are pushing unsuspecting kids into choices that would not have occurred to them." 3 minutes ago, Radiorum said: Do you know what they call it when you start with a desired conclusion and word backwards from it? Rather than follow the evidence and logic to where it leads. That's called pseudoscience. Your position is pseudoscientific. I am following the evidence and logic. You are not. You tried to push your bogus assertion about brains and then quickly ran away from that when I easily demonstrated the absurdity of it. Quote
Radiorum Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 2 minutes ago, User said: I am following the evidence and logic. You are not. You tried to push your bogus assertion about brains and then quickly ran away from that when I easily demonstrated the absurdity of it. Lol, not how I remember it .... Quote
User Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 9 minutes ago, Radiorum said: Lol, not how I remember it .... Of course not, this is how you guys roll... pages and pages later full of obfuscation... just like you are doing here with how you are changing what we were discussing and now you act like it never happened. Quote
Radiorum Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 2 minutes ago, User said: you guys Just the fact that you do not see me as individual greatly diminishes your ability for meaningful dialogue. Quote
User Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 8 minutes ago, Radiorum said: Just the fact that you do not see me as individual greatly diminishes your ability for meaningful dialogue. More games. My commenting on what you and others do here doesn't mean you are not seen as an individual. 1 Quote
Scott75 Posted January 20 Report Posted January 20 19 hours ago, Legato said: 21 hours ago, Scott75 said: You don't agree with the fact that many have expanded their -definitions- of man and woman. Well yes they have. Now it's womanly women and manly man. The rest have tailored nether regions. It's actually more complicated than that. Many people don't get any hormones/hormone blockers and surgery and yet still don't conform to gender norms. What I've been arguing is that we should be more accepting of people who don't conform to gender norms, even going so far as accepting they are the opposite gender to their biological sex -without- the need of them to get hormones/hormone blockers and surgery. By doing so, I think we can help curtail the desire to get hormones/hormone blockers and surgery to begin with. Quote
Scott75 Posted January 20 Report Posted January 20 17 hours ago, Deluge said: 19 hours ago, Scott75 said: I've -always- had reservations about minors getting hormones/hormone blockers and trans surgery. At this point, I've come to agree with people like Chloe (in the video) that minors simply shouldn't have this done at all. This viewpoint isn't set in stone, but I think she makes some -very- good points. I also think that even many adults may be making the wrong decision to get trans surgery, though I do support their right to choose to do so if they want to. But my -most- important point is, what is driving people to get trans surgery to begin with, regardless of age. Chloe said something in her speech that I think is important- that she looked up more to her brothers than her sisters. I think we can agree that biological men and biological women both have some traits that simply can't be compared. Without both, our species would literally die out. What the f*ck are you talking about? Denying the trans agenda is not going to kill our species. You're so used to seeing me as your ideological opponent that you failed to understand what I actually said. Try seeing how we would -agree- on the following statement: ** I think we can agree that biological men and biological women both have some traits that simply can't be compared. Without both, our species would literally die out. ** Quote
Scott75 Posted January 20 Report Posted January 20 (edited) 17 hours ago, Venandi said: 20 hours ago, Scott75 said: Lol :-p. I suspect you may not have read my whole post though.I think what I said after the sentence you quoted is pretty important. To whit: ** If you're fit enough to do a given military job, why should your age be the deciding factor? Similarly, if a woman was fit enough to be in a combat military role, why should her gender be a factor? I think the main problem when it comes to this whole "Are you a man or a woman" debate is that we're focusing on the wrong thing, that is, we're focusing on a person's biological sex, instead of their capabilities. ** I did read it... that's why I said: **As soon as I'm 19 again we have a deal.** My concern here was never for myself... none of this hurts me a bit and those hard body chicks who think they're gay men are welcome to shower with me anytime. Aggressive males who identify as women are welcome too, I enjoy that kind of interaction. So, when I say none of this hurts me I'm really not kidding. My concern was always for your mother, sister, daughter (etc) in the shower room, or your aunt who's in prison, young women competing in sports, college girls looking for scholarships.... you get the idea right? Alright, as to your concern, unisex showers are like woman's bathrooms- everyone gets their own separate stall so no one's seeing anything: https://sprucebath.com/mixed-genders-showers-benefits-downsides-and-regulations/ As to prison, the only case I heard of a problem was a trans woman who impregnated 2 women in a women's prison. The sex was consensual, but even consensual sex isn't allowed in women's prisons, so she was removed to a "vulnerable housing unit", where only young men and 3 other trans women are housed: https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/nj-trans-prisoner-impregnated-2-inmates-transferred-mens-facility-rcna38947 As to women competing in sports, here I do believe that biological women should have the right to compete without biological men, regardless of whether these men are cis or trans gender. Most people know that biological men generally tend to have a marked advantage when it comes to sports, so I think it's only fair that they be exluded from competing with biological women if that's what the biological women want. Finally, as to college girls looking for scholarships, you're going to have to elaborate on the issue there. Edited January 20 by Scott75 Quote
Scott75 Posted January 20 Report Posted January 20 (edited) 18 hours ago, Venandi said: You may have noticed that people here are pretty rude, I see a lot of that across the board now too... and so be it. My concern for them and their's is at an all time low now because of it and I'm ready to kick Robo and Herb's female kinfolk under the bus... so ya, I'll take the deal. As soon as age is included in this madness and I'm 19 again you get my vote. Sound fair? As to the rudeness, I agree there's a lot of it on this forum. When it comes to the issue of this thread, I've found it's those on the 'right' who are the ones generally hurling abuse, but I've participated in other threads here where it seems that both sides hurl insults quite a bit. However, to be frank, there's a lot of it in just about any forum I've been to. Moderation can help, but I've found that moderators are humans like everyone else, and sometimes their biases can make it so that people they disagree with politically are unfairly punished. Fortunately, I haven't encountered that in this forum and a few others I'm currently in. As to your comment on age, I think this is the wrong way of looking at it. From what you told me, you could competently do the job that a 19 year old could do. If that's the case, don't you think the real problem is the age restriction? Edited January 20 by Scott75 Quote
Venandi Posted January 20 Report Posted January 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, Scott75 said: What I've been arguing is that we should be more accepting of people who don't conform to gender norms, even going so far as accepting they are the opposite gender to their biological sex -without- the need of them to get hormones/hormone blockers and surgery. I don't see too many objecting to general concepts and expressions of tolerance, in fact, I dare say most people don't care. They consider it none of their business, it doesn't affect them. They may roll their eyes.... but generally speaking it's not the problem. The problem is taking tolerance and acceptance to the next level, to a level of manifest absurdity and using innocuous statements like yours (above) as the ladder to do it. It makes people regret having supported your premise in the first place and resolve not to give you another inch because they know you will convert it into yards. Surely you get the idea that people don't want uncut men with beards and lipstick showering next to their daughters and mowing them down on the soccer pitch... don't you? That's what all of this boils down to and another 50 pages won't change this for most people. The spectre of hulking men setting deadlift records in a women's powerlifting event is an open assault on the very kindness and tolerance already extended to your cause... what did you think was going to happen? Did you honestly think there wouldn't be a backlash for trading majority support of a basic principle (rooted in tolerance) into a handful of smelly cheese and rubbing it in peoples faces? This was a tactical blunder of epic proportions IMO and I don't think you will be able to walk back the effects of that smelly cheese with innocuous statements about tolerance and acceptance. All you had to do was not rub that smelly cheese in peoples faces in the first place. The only converts you are likely to get to your side now are (perversely perhaps) people like me who think the electorate need this lesson in absurdity and feel that the quickest way through it is a level of pain sufficient to make overly tolerant, kind hearted voters cry UNCLE at the top of their lungs. Keep up the good work... you're doing great. Edited January 20 by Venandi 1 1 Quote
Scott75 Posted January 20 Report Posted January 20 (edited) 3 hours ago, Venandi said: 4 hours ago, Scott75 said: Many people don't get any hormones/hormone blockers and surgery and yet still don't conform to gender norms. What I've been arguing is that we should be more accepting of people who don't conform to gender norms, even going so far as accepting they are the opposite gender to their biological sex -without- the need of them to get hormones/hormone blockers and surgery. By doing so, I think we can help curtail the desire to get hormones/hormone blockers and surgery to begin with. I don't see too many objecting to general concepts and expressions of tolerance, in fact, I dare say most people don't care. They consider it none of their business, it doesn't affect them. They may roll their eyes.... but generally speaking it's not the problem. The problem is taking tolerance and acceptance to the next level, to a level of manifest absurdity and using innocuous statements like yours (above) as the ladder to do it. It makes people regret having supported your premise in the first place and resolve not to give you another inch because they know you will convert it into yards. Surely you get the idea that people don't want uncut men with beards and lipstick showering next to their daughters and mowing them down on the soccer pitch... don't you? I suspect you may not yet have seen my post #1235, as I respond to your concerns above. I'll just quote myself in this case, as I know there are no numbers in posts here (I have a spreadsheet where I assign them numbers): ** Alright, as to your concern, unisex showers are like woman's bathrooms- everyone gets their own separate stall so no one's seeing anything: https://sprucebath.com/mixed-genders-showers-benefits-downsides-and-regulations/ [snip] As to women competing in sports, here I do believe that biological women should have the right to compete without biological men, regardless of whether these men are cis or trans gender. Most people know that biological men generally tend to have a marked advantage when it comes to sports, so I think it's only fair that they be exluded from competing with biological women if that's what biological women want. ** Edited January 20 by Scott75 Quote
Deluge Posted January 20 Author Report Posted January 20 4 hours ago, Scott75 said: You're so used to seeing me as your ideological opponent that you failed to understand what I actually said. Try seeing how we would -agree- on the following statement: ** I think we can agree that biological men and biological women both have some traits that simply can't be compared. Without both, our species would literally die out. ** That goes without saying, comrade. What's your point? Quote
Scott75 Posted January 20 Report Posted January 20 4 minutes ago, Deluge said: 5 hours ago, Scott75 said: 23 hours ago, Deluge said: On 1/19/2025 at 8:07 AM, Scott75 said: I've -always- had reservations about minors getting hormones/hormone blockers and trans surgery. At this point, I've come to agree with people like Chloe (in the video) that minors simply shouldn't have this done at all. This viewpoint isn't set in stone, but I think she makes some -very- good points. I also think that even many adults may be making the wrong decision to get trans surgery, though I do support their right to choose to do so if they want to. But my -most- important point is, what is driving people to get trans surgery to begin with, regardless of age. Chloe said something in her speech that I think is important- that she looked up more to her brothers than her sisters. I think we can agree that biological men and biological women both have some traits that simply can't be compared. Without both, our species would literally die out. What the f*ck are you talking about? Denying the trans agenda is not going to kill our species. Those f*ckers really have their hooks in you, don't they. lol You're so used to seeing me as your ideological opponent that you failed to understand what I actually said. Try seeing how we would -agree- on the following statement: ** I think we can agree that biological men and biological women both have some traits that simply can't be compared. Without both, our species would literally die out. ** That goes without saying, comrade. What's your point? The first time I brought it up with you, I was trying to point out that whatever other points we disagree upon, we agree on this. The second time, I was still making that point, as well as the need to be careful not to jump to false conclusions, such as your conclusion that I was suggesting that denying the trans agenda (whatever that means) would kill our species. Quote
Deluge Posted January 20 Author Report Posted January 20 59 minutes ago, Scott75 said: The first time I brought it up with you, I was trying to point out that whatever other points we disagree upon, we agree on this. The second time, I was still making that point, as well as the need to be careful not to jump to false conclusions, such as your conclusion that I was suggesting that denying the trans agenda (whatever that means) would kill our species. Well, given your state of mind, anything is possible. lol The point is, you've joined the trannies in the fight for bathroom/locker room space, and you want drag queens to have full access to kids - THOSE TWO are part of the tranny agenda, and that is where the fight will be, over the next few years. Quote
Venandi Posted January 20 Report Posted January 20 (edited) 2 hours ago, Scott75 said: I do believe that biological women should have the right to compete without biological men Cool, but that doesn't seem to be happening does it? And it's being defended by intellectual powerhouses like Robo and Herb. Which is good BTW since I want to see a solid backlash happen, the fastest way through this is a$$ pain and pi$$ off factor aimed at the people who initially supported this thinking it wouldn't become totally moronic. Watching Robo put DUH at the end of every sentence is more than I dared hope for. 2 hours ago, Scott75 said: unisex showers are like woman's bathrooms- everyone gets their own separate stall so no one's seeing anything: Cool, but that doesn't seem to be happening does it? 2 hours ago, Scott75 said: I suspect you may not yet have seen my post #1235, as I respond to your concerns above Even though I appreciate the polite response it solves little for people predisposed to disagree with you. In truth, I was on the fence about all this initially but the toxic combination of absurdity and seeing that absurdity defended (with arrogance) by intellectuals of Robo and Herb calibre has changed all that for me. I want this stomped into the dirt now... and IMO, the quickest way to do that is more absurdity and giving Robo more opportunity and platform to end more sentences with DUH. I don't actually care what he has or hasn't said on this particular subject BTW because there are so many others I have similar feelings about and he plays the role well. Without efforts like that Trump would never have been elected in the US and conservatives wouldn't be poised to make a killing in Canada. All IMO of course but it does seem to be working. Woke and DEI are both getting the regular beatings they deserve now and I hope it continues. Edited January 20 by Venandi 1 Quote
Scott75 Posted January 20 Report Posted January 20 6 hours ago, Deluge said: 7 hours ago, Scott75 said: The first time I brought it up with you, I was trying to point out that whatever other points we disagree upon, we agree on this. The second time, I was still making that point, as well as the need to be careful not to jump to false conclusions, such as your conclusion that I was suggesting that denying the trans agenda (whatever that means) would kill our species. Well, given your state of mind, anything is possible. lol Pffft -.- 6 hours ago, Deluge said: The point is, you've joined the trannies in the fight for bathroom/locker room space, and you want drag queens to have full access to kids - THOSE TWO are part of the tranny agenda, and that is where the fight will be, over the next few years. In terms of bathroom/locker rooms, please see what I said to Venandi recently. In terms of your notion that I want drag queens to have 'full access' to kids, no idea where you're getting that from. I do believe that parents should be allowed to let drag queens read to their kids if they want. Quote
Scott75 Posted January 20 Report Posted January 20 (edited) 22 hours ago, Venandi said: On 1/20/2025 at 8:45 AM, Scott75 said: I do believe that biological women should have the right to compete without biological men Cool, but that doesn't seem to be happening does it? From what I can see, it is- https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/general/house-passes-bill-to-ban-biological-men-from-women-s-sports/ar-AA1xfUET 22 hours ago, Venandi said: And it's being defended by intellectual powerhouses like Robo and Herb. If true, they're welcome to their opinion on the matter, I just don't share it. Edited January 21 by Scott75 Quote
Scott75 Posted January 21 Report Posted January 21 (edited) 22 hours ago, Venandi said: On 1/20/2025 at 8:45 AM, Scott75 said: Alright, as to your concern, unisex showers are like woman's bathrooms- everyone gets their own separate stall so no one's seeing anything: https://sprucebath.com/mixed-genders-showers-benefits-downsides-and-regulations/ Cool, but that doesn't seem to be happening does it? It is in Europe: https://shunshelter.com/article/are-changing-rooms-and-bathrooms-coed-in-europe I have also seen this more often in Canada then when I was young. I suspect it's the same in the U.S., though I only lived there briefly, and a long time ago, so I couldn't say there. The following article seems to think it will become more common though (I'm guessing it's American but I'm not sure): https://www.facilitatemagazine.com/good-practice-legal/explainer/2017/08/01/unisex-bathrooms-what-fms-need-know Psychology Today made an article about it 10 years ago, asking if the concept was too far ahead of its time: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/it-s-man-s-and-woman-s-world/201509/why-some-welcome-unisex-bathrooms-and-some-steer-clear Perhaps for the most part it still is, but I think what will finally make it much more common is the fear of using -either- sex bathroom many transgender people experience: https://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-news/transgender-atlantans-tread-carefully-when-entering-public-restrooms/MTEFTXN6KVCERJSYAIFSUWL5MU/ We can do better. Maybe not yet for many places, but eventually. Edited January 21 by Scott75 Quote
Scott75 Posted January 21 Report Posted January 21 (edited) 22 hours ago, Venandi said: On 1/20/2025 at 8:45 AM, Scott75 said: I suspect you may not yet have seen my post #1235, as I respond to your concerns above. Even though I appreciate the polite response it solves little for people predisposed to disagree with you. Perhaps, but I think I've at least managed to point out that there is no over-arching "trans agenda". I support trans people have access to washrooms where they don't feel ostracized, unisex bathrooms being the best fit I think. But I also disagree with some trans women that they should have a right to compete with cisgender women. 22 hours ago, Venandi said: In truth, I was on the fence about all this initially but the toxic combination of absurdity and seeing that absurdity defended (with arrogance) by intellectuals of Robo and Herb calibre has changed all that for me. I want this stomped into the dirt now... and IMO, the quickest way to do that is more absurdity and giving Robo more opportunity and platform to end more sentences with DUH. I don't actually care what he has or hasn't said on this particular subject BTW because there are so many others I have similar feelings about and he plays the role well. Without efforts like that Trump would never have been elected in the US and conservatives wouldn't be poised to make a killing in Canada. All IMO of course but it does seem to be working. Woke and DEI are both getting the regular beatings they deserve now and I hope it continues. Well, as you can see, I agree with you to some extent in regards to some trans issues. I also think that some companies have taken DEI way too far, with the apparent idea that "inclusion" should take the place of competence. I think that some companies like Disney has suffered financially for doing this, which I think will help this phenomenom self correct in the future. Edited January 21 by Scott75 Quote
Deluge Posted January 21 Author Report Posted January 21 (edited) 16 hours ago, Scott75 said: Pffft -.- In terms of bathroom/locker rooms, please see what I said to Venandi recently. In terms of your notion that I want drag queens to have 'full access' to kids, no idea where you're getting that from. I do believe that parents should be allowed to let drag queens read to their kids if they want. You want trannies to have their own bathrooms, OR you want EVERYONE in the same bathrooms OR you want trannies in women's bathrooms. ALL of these situations favor the trannies and tranny disciples, and nobody else, which is what YOU want. Drag Queen story hour should be illegal. We make that happen and we won't have to worry about trannies helping woke parents corrupt their children. Edited January 21 by Deluge Quote
Nationalist Posted January 21 Report Posted January 21 Last night Trump signed an order that says there are 2 genders; Male and Female. Case closed. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
Deluge Posted January 21 Author Report Posted January 21 On 1/20/2025 at 2:53 AM, Scott75 said: It's actually more complicated than that. Many people don't get any hormones/hormone blockers and surgery and yet still don't conform to gender norms. What I've been arguing is that we should be more accepting of people who don't conform to gender norms, even going so far as accepting they are the opposite gender to their biological sex -without- the need of them to get hormones/hormone blockers and surgery. By doing so, I think we can help curtail the desire to get hormones/hormone blockers and surgery to begin with. No, it's the other way around: those people should be more accepting of gender norms. The fact that they lack the self awareness to understand that THEY are not normal and that THEY should be keeping their preferences to themselves ,is telling. What they really need more than anything else, is professional help. Quote
Scott75 Posted January 21 Report Posted January 21 7 minutes ago, Deluge said: 16 hours ago, Scott75 said: Pffft -.- In terms of bathroom/locker rooms, please see what I said to Venandi recently. In terms of your notion that I want drag queens to have 'full access' to kids, no idea where you're getting that from. I do believe that parents should be allowed to let drag queens read to their kids if they want. You want trannies to have their own bathrooms, OR you want EVERYONE in the same bathrooms OR you want trannies in women's bathrooms. ALL of these situations favor the trannies and tranny disciples, and nobody else, which is what YOU want. I personally think everyone in the same bathrooms would favour everyone. For starters, I suspect it'd be more economical. But perhaps most importantly, I think it'd help break down this notion that genders are that different. I remember back in high school having a class debate on whether or not the genders were that different. I took the side that they were, with my main argument being that only biological women can get pregnant and only biological men can impregnate. The girl I liked most in the whole school took the stance that the genders weren't that different. I now think she was right. They're not. In the past, there were a lot more schools where only a single gender was allowed. This has been changing. Now, the new trend is that bathrooms are becoming more unisex. I think this trend will continue and I also think it'll be good, for everyone. It's time that we all learn that regardless of what sex and gender a person is, we're all just humans and while we do need both biological sexes to survive as a species, there generally isn't any need to separate said sexes for most things and it can actually be detrimental. I was fortunate to never have been in a school with only one sex, but I have heard of people who were and I haven't heard anyone say they felt it was a better choice then mixed gender schools. 12 minutes ago, Deluge said: Drag Queen story hour should be illegal. We make that happen and we won't have to worry about trannies helping woke parents corrupt their children. I disagree with you, on all counts. If parents think their children can benefit from listening to a drag queen read a story, I think that's fine. I'm reminded of a story where a young girl wanted to play part of a male/female cartoon characdter duo with her father, only she wanted to play the boy and have her father play the girl. The father went along with it and apparently had fun. You may say that he shouldn't have, but I think he may have actually helped his daughter out, in seeing her father play a gender that he generally doesn't play. Above all, I hope we can prevent stories like the one that was brought up here earlier, where a young girl decided to get transgender surgery because she looked up to her brothers a bit more than her sisters, only to regret it later. Quote
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