Who Hates the USA?

[PocketRocket]

I keep seeing posts accusing Canadians of "hating" the USA.

These are largely, but not exclusively, posted by right-leaning members, accusing "the Left" of such hatred.

We have on this board a fairly large sample population, so why don't we just see where MLW members stand as a community???

BTW, this is the first time I've tried setting up a poll, so I beg forgiveness if it doesn't come out right.

[PocketRocket]

Okay. I tried to set up a Poll, with the voting options being "Hate the USA", "Love the USA", "Like the USA, but sometimes get annoyed with them". and "Indifferent".

Obviously, I don't know how to post a poll.

Could someone oblige me and set one up please???

[Leafless]

PocketRocket

There is no need for a poll of this type as it's results could be very misleading.

I think the main objective is to identify WHEN this anti-U.S. originally first started and gradually became more progressive.

I know for a fact there was never any outright anti-Americanism in this country until the Liberals started heavy immigration from Islamic countries followed by vocal oppositon mainly from Quebec.

There is a big difference between dislike of a countries foreign policy and expressing outright animosity and hatred basically based on language and culture.

I suspect hard core anti-U.S. sentiments in Canada is actually quite low and is often confused by the media with some Canadians disliking U.S. foreign policy as opposed to hate and animosity being associated with anti-Americanism.

[Riverwind]

I know for a fact there was never any outright anti-Americanism in this country until the Liberals started heavy immigration from Islamic countries followed by vocal oppositon mainly from Quebec.

The really blatent anti-Americanism started when the US invaded Iraq - I noticed a disturbing change in the public discourse around that time. The same thing happened in almost every democratic country in the world which suggests the change was not caused by something unique to Canada.

There is a big difference between dislike of a countries foreign policy and expressing outright animosity and hatred basically based on language and culture.

This is exactly the change I noticed around the time the Iraq war started. I agree that being hostile towards an entire country because of the actions of a near lunatic chief executive is not called for. However, Americans should ask themselves, if their foriegn policy can provoke such a reaction in a culturally similar country like Canada then it is should not be surpising how people react in the Islamic world.

[PocketRocket]

LEAFLESS:

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

The purpose behind a poll was to simply have a look at the alleged "hatred" of Canadians toward the USA.

Far too many threads have been either started or sidetracked by accusations of Canadians "hating" the USA.

These invariably come from a select few posters who are using it as a sweeping blanket accusation of all so called "Lefties".

It does little to advance logical debate, and I am hoping to set that particular issue to rest, or at the very least, minimize its recurrence on this board.

If I speak out against policies of a current American administration, it certainly does not mean I hate the USA, but that seems to be the interpetation given to many such posts by those who disagree with the poster.

[sharkman]

I know for a fact there was never any outright anti-Americanism in this country until the Liberals started heavy immigration from Islamic countries followed by vocal oppositon mainly from Quebec.

The really blatent anti-Americanism started when the US invaded Iraq - I noticed a disturbing change in the public discourse around that time. The same thing happened in almost every democratic country in the world which suggests the change was not caused by something unique to Canada.

There is a big difference between dislike of a countries foreign policy and expressing outright animosity and hatred basically based on language and culture.

This is exactly the change I noticed around the time the Iraq war started. I agree that being hostile towards an entire country because of the actions of a near lunatic chief executive is not called for. However, Americans should ask themselves, if their foriegn policy can provoke such a reaction in a culturally similar country like Canada then it is should not be surpising how people react in the Islamic world.

I noticed blatant anti-Americanism when 9/11 happened. Plenty of Canadians and others were saying the U.S. had it coming instead of being sympathetic to a friend in a time of need.

[BubberMiley]

If you consider the U.S. to be a nation evolved from its constitution, then I would say those people trying to destroy it by ignoring the checks and balances of executive power, wiretapping without a warrant, running trillion-dollar deficits, and invading countries for personal profit hate it the most.

[PocketRocket]

The really blatent anti-Americanism started when the US invaded Iraq - I noticed a disturbing change in the public discourse around that time. The same thing happened in almost every democratic country in the world which suggests the change was not caused by something unique to Canada.

I think there's a big difference between anti-Americanism as we see it in some of the Islaamic countries, and the anti-Bush-ism we see in Canada.

As I stated previously, I am no fan of GWB, but I have no ill feelings whatsoever towards America or her people.

I think too many people look at anti-Bush folks, and simply paint them with the anti-America brush.

[Riverwind]

I think too many people look at anti-Bush folks, and simply paint them with the anti-America brush.

The American junior hockey team was booed in Vancouver even when they were not even playing the Canadian team. Sport writers of all stripes condemned it but the fact it happened at all is a sign there is a nasty anti-American undercurrent in Canadian society today. It may not be an opinion held by the majority but the minority is large enough to be a concern.

[crazymf]

I travel the States 1-2 times a year and have many friends there. They are no different than us and the border thing just ticks me off. I wish it was all one country. I guess you could say I don't hate the States. They have more in common with us than Quebec does.

[mcqueen625]

I keep seeing posts accusing Canadians of "hating" the USA.

These are largely, but not exclusively, posted by right-leaning members, accusing "the Left" of such hatred.

We have on this board a fairly large sample population, so why don't we just see where MLW members stand as a community???

BTW, this is the first time I've tried setting up a poll, so I beg forgiveness if it doesn't come out right.

It seems to me that most of the anti-American sentiment in Canada is coming from the left-leaning Liberal Party Members of Parliament including Paul Martin and his predecessor Jean Chretien, as well as most members of the NDP. If it were not for the United States and Canada's trade with that country over the years, Canada would be nothing but a third world country. Let's also not forget the money that our own government has slashed from our military and made us more reliant on the United States for protection. Our troops were an embarrassment to this country when they showed up in Afghanistan on a NATO/U.N. sponsored mission dressed in olive-green instead of dessert wear in order to blend in with their surroundings.

Instead of our politicians and appointed loud-mouths shooting off their faces and spewing their personal hatred of our neighbours and families to the south they should instead do something useful like fostering better relations with them. Canada is far from perfect and getting less so as time goes on. Government is interfering in all facets of Canadian's lives and creating more bureaucracy to promote that interference. If we follow the NDP agenda, that bureaucracy and interference in Canadian's will continue to grow until all disposable income will go to taxes so government can make all of our choices for us.

Thankfully our new government under Stephen Harper has made the first of what I hope will be many cuts to useless bureaucracies, like the useless Unity Commission. That Commission in my opinion, along with many others should have never been created in the first place. We need some common sense when decisions are being regarding the funding or the creation of bureaucracies. Common sense dictates that bureaucracy should only exist where absolutely necessary, because it is our tax-money that is expected to pay for it..

[Biblio Bibuli]

Okay. I tried to set up a Poll, with the voting options being "Hate the USA", "Love the USA", "Like the USA, but sometimes get annoyed with them". and "Indifferent".

Obviously, I don't know how to post a poll.

Could someone oblige me and set one up please???

Looks like someone has obliged you:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/index.p...wtopic=5360&hl=

But since the only option that he gives us is "Like the USA" and not "Love the USA", I will NOT be participating in voting!

[Montgomery Burns]

Canada's jealousy of the USA is because of the leftwing Liberal Party, the socialist NDP, Canada's hard-left state-run taxpayer-funded CBC, and the hard left Toronto Star.

The Liberal Party constantly insulted America calling them idiots, morons, coalition of the idiots, and then had Liberal MP Carolyn Parrish going on state-run TV and stomping a George Bush doll underneath her boots. The Canadian left basically chuckled at this embarrassing display by Parrish (who was not condemned for this deplorable antic by former PM Paul Martin), but people like Pocket Rocket reacted with outrage when some no-name pundit (Tucker Carlson) on a channel that few watch (MSNBC) called Canadians "America's retarded cousins".

[Montgomery Burns]

Indeed, here is an example of the Liberal Party's anti-Americanism from just a couple of days ago:

The federal Liberals are distancing themselves from a senator’s harsh criticism of the U.S. in a letter she sent defending the Canadian seal hunt.

Just like they distanced themselves from Paul Martin's call for the US to have a global conscience--even though the USA's greenhouse gas emissions had risen one half of Canada's since 1990.

Senator Celine Hervieux-Payette replied recently to a letter from an American family which called the hunt “horrible” and “inhumane.”

Hervieux-Payette responded that what she found horrible was “the daily massacre of innocent people in Iraq, the execution of prisoners - mainly blacks - in American prisons, the massive sale of handguns to Americans, the destabilization of the entire world by the American government’s aggressive foreign policy, etc.”

Class. Pure leftwing class.

Opposition Leader Bill Graham issued a statement Friday saying those words “reflect her personal opinions and not those of the Liberal Party of Canada.”

“The Liberal Party of Canada values the friendship and commitment to democratic principles that Canada shares with the United States.”

Stop it Bill. My gut is sore from laughing so hard!

[...] The senator’s remarks drew a sharp rebuke from Rebecca Aldworth of the Humane Society of the United States, who said Hervieux-Payette was out of line.

“Her statements were inflammatory and offence to Americans, who have the absolute right to speak up on the seal hunt regardless of U.S. foreign policy,” Aldworth said.

“Her comments weren’t at all appropriate or relevant."

Boo hoo Rebecca. Celine is a leftwing Canadian politician and you are just a stupid American...who by the purest of coincidence happen to live in the most powerful country in the world economically, militarily, culturally, and have the best healthcare system in the world!

How DARE YOU question Canada's seal hunt practices? Quit butting your nose into our business! You don't see Canadians butting their noses into your business!

[Biblio Bibuli]

Pocket Rocket reacted with outrage when some no-name pundit (Tucker Carlson) on a channel that few watch (MSNBC) called Canadians "America's retarded cousins".

No name pundit? What are you talking about ??? Tucker Carlson is hilarious! He's bang on with his observations on Canada ... my personal favorite being "Canadians are sort of like made in Taiwan Americans".

Now that's funny!!

[Biblio Bibuli]

Indeed, here is an example of the Liberal Party's anti-Americanism

But at least we can console ourselves in the fact that these people no longer represent the government of Canada.

Harper's first photo-op was a not by co-incidence in Afghanistan.

I think we can hope now that "God will bless Canada".

[scribblet]

Canada's jealousy of the USA is because of the leftwing Liberal Party, the socialist NDP, Canada's hard-left state-run taxpayer-funded CBC, and the hard left Toronto Star.

The Liberal Party constantly insulted America calling them idiots, morons, coalition of the idiots, and then had Liberal MP Carolyn Parrish going on state-run TV and stomping a George Bush doll underneath her boots. The Canadian left basically chuckled at this embarrassing display by Parrish (who was not condemned for this deplorable antic by former PM Paul Martin), but people like Pocket Rocket reacted with outrage when some no-name pundit (Tucker Carlson) on a channel that few watch (MSNBC) called Canadians "America's retarded cousins".

I suppose Canadians take their lead from the government. I do concur that Bush going into Iraq was the topper. I used to post on a now defunct board which was rank with vicious and malicious rants against the U.S. and certainly didn't make me proud to be Canadian. I've seen it on other boards too but will say its not that bad on here. I posted this on the other board.

America bashing is different from normal constructive critique of a government and policies, it goes well beyond that. It is anti Americanism at its most radical.

It differs from normal constructive criticism in that the goal is not to advise, suggest or fix what is seen as wrong, but to repudiate and destroy. It views every U.S. action, no matter what, from the beginning until now as oppressive and evil. It does not see the U.S. as being wrong in some instances, but everything it does is wrong, no matter who is doing it. There is a mean-spirited conviction that the U.S. cannot now nor ever do anything right and these convictions hold even when the U.S. is giving aid and helping while their soldiers are dying even when peacekeeping.

There is a feigned self righteous intellectual and cultural superiority over Americans and there is no satisfying them. This also results in painting anyone who remotely likes or agrees with anything, as being un-Canadian, and anyone who critiques the current liberal government and doesn't uphold what is seen as 'liberal values' are now anti-Canadian and should of course 'leave'

This type of knee jerk bashing usually stems from a feeling of inferiority and has resulted in Canada's once proud military being reduced to penury and has prevented Canada from playing a role in the global battle against terrorism.

[margrace]

I was quite surprised when I was attacked, long before Mr. Bush started, by a sports writer from the Washington Post, telling me I lived in a Communist country, that we did not have so much as a decent restaurant in Canada and what a poor bunch we are.

We corresponded for some time and I explained to him my world views!!!!. Finally he sent me an email congradulating me on my stands and finished off with Keep up the Good work. It was an interesting correspondance

[PocketRocket]

MontyBurns

G'day. It's been a while since we've butted heads, but I could not let this blatant falsehood stand...

people like Pocket Rocket reacted with outrage when some no-name pundit (Tucker Carlson) on a channel that few watch (MSNBC) called Canadians "America's retarded cousins".

This off the cuff remark of yours caused me to waste about 10 minutes poring over the old "Tucker Carlson/Anne Coulture" thread in great detail to find the "outrage" with which I supposedly reacted.

My reasons for asking the question which began this thread were simply to stop this all-to-common tactic of shouting "America hater" at anyone who dared to question the USA's current policies.

If truth be told, you are one of those who is largely responsible for my asking the question for which this thread was set up.

You seem to have a habit of putting words in other people's mouths, or twisting their statements into something they were not originally intended to be.

If someone condemns GWB's actions, you often "translate" that into a "hatred" of America and all things American.

That's too bad, really. You're a very smart guy, perfectly capable of debating an issue on its own merits. But instead, you seem to enjoy antagonizing people.

So, I'm calling you on this one.

Please show the "outrage" I displayed over Tucker's remarks.

AMERICA 1 (a conservative-type) and I seem to have gotten along quite well in that thread, and came to a consensus on many points. In fact, I agreed with many of his statements in that thread, including those regarding the USA's military and economic superiority over Canada.

If I said nothing in that thread to offend a conservative American, then what comment stands out in your mind as a display of "outrage" ???

C'mon MONTY, time to put up or shut up. Show me the "outrage" in my comments.

If you find that you're incapable of producing such "outrage" from any of my posts on the topic, then I will expect a retraction of your accusatory comment here.

[GostHacked]

Canada's jealousy of the USA is because of the leftwing Liberal Party, the socialist NDP, Canada's hard-left state-run taxpayer-funded CBC, and the hard left Toronto Star.

The Liberal Party constantly insulted America calling them idiots, morons, coalition of the idiots, and then had Liberal MP Carolyn Parrish going on state-run TV and stomping a George Bush doll underneath her boots. The Canadian left basically chuckled at this embarrassing display by Parrish (who was not condemned for this deplorable antic by former PM Paul Martin), but people like Pocket Rocket reacted with outrage when some no-name pundit (Tucker Carlson) on a channel that few watch (MSNBC) called Canadians "America's retarded cousins".

Why is Carlson not at CNN anymore? The little pundit got owned by a satiricle news show host. Carlson tucker'd his tail between his legs and in shame left for another network. THAT is why no one watches him. He did not garner any respect from the incident.

[Slavik44]

hold on anti-Americanism....

Like in the election of 1911 or after the war of 1812? Anti-Americanism generally doesn't just appear one day for no reason, sometimes polticial parties foster it to help them win elections, like the conservatives, or sometimes it is a result of fighting a war against Americans, or feeling American pressure. Listen anti-Americanism is in our history it is not the fault of the CBC, it wasn't around in 1812, it is not the fault of Muslims in Canada...they probabley weren't around in 1911. Anti-Americanism tends to rear its head when there is a big issue at stake and Canadians and Americans are in disagreement. It generally subsides when we can find something to unify ourselves as nieghbors and friends, this pointing to the fact that most people can be satisfied. Because most people don't hate America, they instead are genuinley frustrated with American actions. Some take this to far and express themselves the wrong way, but just like in the past we will find an issue to unite us as friends or this current problem will meerely subside if given time.

[Biblio Bibuli]

Anti-Americanism tends to rear its head when there is a big issue at stake. It generally subsides when we can find something to unify ourselves as nieghbors and friends, this pointing to the fact that most people can be satisfied.

Could the big issue be that we cannot KEEP UP WITH THE JONESES as we used to? And that we are getting poorer and poorer compared to the Americans with each passing year?

First it was all that extra money in their pockets that we were jealous ... but we excused it by saying that they have to pay American prices.

Now everything in America is cheaper to buy than in Canada.

I'M MAD AS HELL !!!! Not at the Americans, of course. At our government.

[newbie]

hold on anti-Americanism....

Like in the election of 1911 or after the war of 1812? Anti-Americanism generally doesn't just appear one day for no reason, sometimes polticial parties foster it to help them win elections, like the conservatives, or sometimes it is a result of fighting a war against Americans, or feeling American pressure. Listen anti-Americanism is in our history it is not the fault of the CBC, it wasn't around in 1812, it is not the fault of Muslims in Canada...they probabley weren't around in 1911. Anti-Americanism tends to rear its head when there is a big issue at stake and Canadians and Americans are in disagreement. It generally subsides when we can find something to unify ourselves as nieghbors and friends, this pointing to the fact that most people can be satisfied. Because most people don't hate America, they instead are genuinley frustrated with American actions. Some take this to far and express themselves the wrong way, but just like in the past we will find an issue to unite us as friends or this current problem will meerely subside if given time.

Good post. I share those sentiments exactly. Some people on this forum think I hate George Bush. But it is his actions and those of his administration that upset me. My family's background is American so it's ridiculous to assume I have hatred for "all" Americans. Unlike the thinking of some on the right I can distinguish between the US Gov't and it's citizens.

[Wilber]

hold on anti-Americanism....

Like in the election of 1911 or after the war of 1812? Anti-Americanism generally doesn't just appear one day for no reason, sometimes polticial parties foster it to help them win elections, like the conservatives, or sometimes it is a result of fighting a war against Americans, or feeling American pressure. Listen anti-Americanism is in our history it is not the fault of the CBC, it wasn't around in 1812, it is not the fault of Muslims in Canada...they probabley weren't around in 1911. Anti-Americanism tends to rear its head when there is a big issue at stake and Canadians and Americans are in disagreement. It generally subsides when we can find something to unify ourselves as nieghbors and friends, this pointing to the fact that most people can be satisfied. Because most people don't hate America, they instead are genuinley frustrated with American actions. Some take this to far and express themselves the wrong way, but just like in the past we will find an issue to unite us as friends or this current problem will meerely subside if given time.

Good post. I share those sentiments exactly. Some people on this forum think I hate George Bush. But it is his actions and those of his administration that upset me. My family's background is American so it's ridiculous to assume I have hatred for "all" Americans. Unlike the thinking of some on the right I can distinguish between the US Gov't and it's citizens.

What does the word "hate" mean to you? In general and when it comes to George Bush. Just curious because it is used so often for so many things, from not liking a particular food to exterminating a whole group of people. I think that too many people don't think when they use this word. It can be interpreted so many ways. It seems to be a fashionable word these days and an extremely scary one because I never know how to take the people who use it so freely. How far would they go to express this hatred?

[Wilber]

I hope you didn't take the previous post personally Newbie. It is a general question because it is part of the title of this thread. The word is used so often, I am left wondering what it actually means to people today. Perhaps I should have started a new thread.