Public Washrooms

[Nationalist]

On 8/10/2024 at 4:15 PM, herbie said:

Pads in Men's rooms are not political FFS.
They're a matter of convenience. And have you ever seen them in a Men's room.. they're a suggestion for improving availability.
Typical 'anything I don't like is woke and leftist BS.

Yer sounding like my Dad 50 years ago griping about 'there's no need to show Kotex ads on TV' between all the fuzzy bears and kittens arse wipe commercials.

FFS if men needed them there'd be dispensers on every telephone pole adn they'd be free or at least not taxed.

This is yet another example of the "efeminization" of what we laughingly call "men" today.

"I don't mind girls period napkins and tampons in the Mens' bathroom. It doesn't hurt me and its a sign that we can all be whatever we want. Its a virtue signal. It proves we are all together in this quest to allow anyone to be anything they want.

Reality Be Damned!"

This is the thinking of a silly person...someone who values social acceptance over reality.

A Tweenkie.

[Michael Hardner]

On 10/16/2024 at 1:36 AM, August1991 said:

 

The federal state has no business in the washrooms of the nation.

 

Exactly.  People should just work it out.  Lots of people don't like trans folks and lots do... time to work through that...

[Michael Hardner]

 

Why do people want this one in the ladies' room ?

I never got that...  People can just use their judgement and if they can't then the law can weigh in...

[User]

17 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Exactly.  People should just work it out.  Lots of people don't like trans folks and lots do... time to work through that...

OK. So if your position is on what level of government can't interfere here, what level is it that you support enforcing laws against dudes pretending to be women going into women's spaces?

How about at the Collegiate or High School level? Do you support those organizations enforcing rules against dudes pretending to be women going into women's spaces like locker rooms and restrooms?

 

[User]

17 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

 

Why do people want this one in the ladies' room ?

I never got that...  People can just use their judgement and if they can't then the law can weigh in...

I missed the context here with this particular person. 

We both know the most obvious issue here are that most trans women clearly look like dudes pretending to be or dressed up to be women. 

So... why do you want some dude with a beard and a dress on, with clear mental issues thinking he is something he isn't, going into the women's restroom?

 

[User]

On 8/10/2024 at 3:15 PM, herbie said:

Pads in Men's rooms are not political FFS.

When it is politicians supporting it with taxpayer money and laws... yes, it is very much political. 

 

[herbie]

2 hours ago, User said:

When it is politicians supporting it with taxpayer money and laws... yes, it is very much political. 

Reverts to usual conservative financial cost argument, no matter how little.

Cheap, cheapo, cheap!

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, User said:

OK. So if your position is on what level of government can't interfere here, what level is it that you support enforcing laws against dudes pretending to be women going into women's spaces?

How about at the Collegiate or High School level? Do you support those organizations enforcing rules against dudes pretending to be women going into women's spaces like locker rooms and restrooms?

 

I think that the school should separate student bathrooms from teachers, and teachers go in for emergency only.

Otherwise it's gender based.

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, User said:

 

1. We both know the most obvious issue here are that most trans women clearly look like dudes pretending to be or dressed up to be women. 

2. So... why do you want some dude with a beard and a dress on, with clear mental issues thinking he is something he isn't, going into the women's restroom?

 

1. I don't know how you could decide that conclusively.  Or what you do with that idea.

2. Mental issues is a different topic.  I don't agree with dangerous people coming into private spaces.

[User]

8 hours ago, herbie said:

Reverts to usual conservative financial cost argument, no matter how little.

Cheap, cheapo, cheap!

You made a dumb assertion it wasn’t political. I explained how it is. 

[User]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I think that the school should separate student bathrooms from teachers, and teachers go in for emergency only.

Otherwise it's gender based.

And by gender based… you mean, a dude who thinks he is a woman actually is considered one when it comes to being gender based? 
 

You didn’t really answer my question. At all. 
 

You said you didn’t support the federal government being involved… so again, what level do you support being involved? 
 

 

[User]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I don't know how you could decide that conclusively.  Or what you do with that idea

So you don’t know the most obvious issue here?

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. Mental issues is a different topic.  I don't agree with dangerous people coming into private spaces.

A dude thinking he is a woman is a mental issue. Being dangerous isn’t the only reason we protect women’s privacy and spaces in society. 
 

[Michael Hardner]

8 minutes ago, User said:

And by gender based… you mean, a dude who thinks he is a woman actually is considered one when it comes to being gender based? 
 

You didn’t really answer my question. At all. 
 

You said you didn’t support the federal government being involved… so again, what level do you support being involved? 

6 minutes ago, User said:

So you don’t know the most obvious issue here?

A dude thinking he is a woman is a mental issue. Being dangerous isn’t the only reason we protect women’s privacy and spaces in society. 
 

I said that the school should decide.

No, lots of people change gender and lots of people are ok with it.  

It's a problem for some, including you.

I get that you're upset but I don't see any reason for me to be.  I do believe that this is being politicized because some people get super upset over it.  I'm not one of those.

[User]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I said that the school should decide.

No, you didn't. You dictated what you think the school should do with vague, obfuscating language on gender instead of addressing the subject and question. 

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

No, lots of people change gender and lots of people are ok with it.  

You can't change your gender. 

You being OK with it is not the point being discussed. 

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

It's a problem for some, including you.

It is not a problem for me at all, it is simply an observation of fact and my being honest about it. 

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I get that you're upset but I don't see any reason for me to be. 

You are choosing to once again try to make a discussion personal with me instead of simply sticking to the subject. 

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I do believe that this is being politicized because some people get super upset over it.  I'm not one of those.

Yes, "some people" being the girls and women who are losing their place in competition and losing their privacy and norms, having to see some dude in their locker rooms and bathrooms... 

 

[Michael Hardner]

5 hours ago, User said:

1. No, you didn't. 

2. You can't change your gender. 

3. It is not a problem for me at all, it is simply an observation of fact and my being honest about it. 

4. You are choosing to once again try to make a discussion personal with me instead of simply sticking to the subject. 

5. Yes, "some people" being the girls and women who are losing their place in competition and losing their privacy and norms, having to see some dude in their locker rooms and bathrooms... 

 

1. Ok, I don't support schools enforcing bathroom bans.  You'll get people who look like the dude in the picture in the girls' room.  They may have the legal rights to do so if course.

2. It's a semantic argument and an opinion.  There's no response to your statement other than "yes you can".  So some people will want to do it, and now you are in the realm of politics to solve the disagreement.

3. Well then, if it's not a problem you can accept that sometimes people want to do things that contradict science and leave the question out of policy.

4. It's about me too.

5. Well,ok, but I don't really care.  I'm pretty sure they can work this out without me getting involved. Women don't want me weighing in on abortion so I'm glad to leave it to them...

[User]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Ok, I don't support schools enforcing bathroom bans.  You'll get people who look like the dude in the picture in the girls' room.  They may have the legal rights to do so if course.

Once again, not all trans folks can afford perfect amounts of surgery and effort to appear to be something they are not... you are hyper focused on the extreme example here and ignoring that there are many dudes who clearly look like dudes just pretending to be women. 

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. It's a semantic argument and an opinion.  There's no response to your statement other than "yes you can".  So some people will want to do it, and now you are in the realm of politics to solve the disagreement.

No, it is just a statement of fact. You can pretend to be something you are not, but you can't change your gender. 

This is not a disagreement about people choosing to appear to be something they are not or having mental issues believing it... It is about how you and others expect and support society, then conforming to their cosplay or illness, and wanting to impose dudes into women's private spaces or taking away their fair competition.

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

4. It's about me too.

OK... so what? Talk about yourself all you want, trying to make this personal about me doesn't have anything to do with the discussion. 

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

5. Well,ok, but I don't really care.  I'm pretty sure they can work this out without me getting involved. Women don't want me weighing in on abortion so I'm glad to leave it to them...

You really don't care... which is why you are in almost all of these discussions. You are involving yourself right now. 

 

 

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, User said:

1. Once again, not all trans folks can afford perfect amounts of surgery and effort to appear to be something they are not... you are hyper focused on the extreme example here and ignoring that there are many dudes who clearly look like dudes just pretending to be women. 

2. No, it is just a statement of fact. You can pretend to be something you are not, but you can't change your gender. 

3. This is not a disagreement about people choosing to appear to be something they are not or having mental issues believing it... It is about how you and others expect and support society, then conforming to their cosplay or illness, and wanting to impose dudes into women's private spaces or taking away their fair competition.

4. OK... so what? Talk about yourself all you want, trying to make this personal about me doesn't have anything to do with the discussion. 

5. You really don't care... which is why you are in almost all of these discussions. You are involving yourself right now. 

 

 

1. Ok, I mentioned that as a potential flaw in setting up a policy.  I'm still again barring them regardless but curious as to how you would deal with that?  You can't make a "dude looks like a lady" rule as it's subjective and a potential loophole.

2. Okay, so if I say yes you can, what is your response? Is it no you can't?

3. If you say so. It's still politics, and if a group of people are okay with it in their community, they can make it happen. This is assuming we're talking about issues Beyond discrimination, which is a separate matter. 

4. It is personal, it's about how we personally deal with behavior we don't agree with. Since both of us don't have a problem with it, it's about community guidelines.  So if you're not upset with it... Do you care? Seems like there's some thin line between caring enough to talk about it and being bothered. Pretty thin line. 

5. Yes I'm interested in the larger question. I'm not bothered by the sports question in particular enough to engage in it to any level of depth.  I'm mostly interested in the public sphere and how we discuss policy, in this case related to morality.

 

 

[User]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Ok, I mentioned that as a potential flaw in setting up a policy.  I'm still again barring them regardless but curious as to how you would deal with that?  You can't make a "dude looks like a lady" rule as it's subjective and a potential loophole.

Potential flaw? No, you were using it as an example to oppose anything, and as you say here, that is clearly your position. It is not just the laws either... but policy. You are clearly obfuscating here to support dudes pretending to be women going into women spaces. 

Lets prove that out, just be blunt here, be clear and I will even avoid loaded language: 

Are you OK with trans women going into women's spaces? Yes or No?

Do you care at all how much that impacts women? Yes or No?

Are you just fine seeing a trans woman up on the podium in 1st place, preventing a woman from winning and having that spot?

It is not my problem to deal with some girl who surgically altered herself to the point she looks like a man. That is her problem to deal with and explain to people as to why she is trying to use the ladies room or not. 

The folks in that category are going to be an even smaller subset of the dudes who clearly look like dudes trying to look like a lady. 

Can you at least agree that is wrong for a dude who clearly looks like a dude trying to look like a woman using women spaces?

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. Okay, so if I say yes you can, what is your response? Is it no you can't?

If all you are going to do is offer a baseless assertion that is obviously wrong, all I have to do is point out it is wrong. 
 

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. If you say so. It's still politics, and if a group of people are okay with it in their community, they can make it happen. This is assuming we're talking about issues Beyond discrimination, which is a separate matter. 

Once again, just a factual observation, not just me saying it. 

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

4. It is personal, it's about how we personally deal with behavior we don't agree with. Since both of us don't have a problem with it, it's about community guidelines.  So if you're not upset with it... Do you care? Seems like there's some thin line between caring enough to talk about it and being bothered. Pretty thin line. 

Once again... if YOU want to make it personal for yourself, that is on you. YOU trying to make it personal for me has nothing to do with anything. My being upset or not has nothing to do with anything. It is just you trying to cast negative emotions on me when not only are those irrelevant, you have no clue. 
 

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, User said:

1. No, you were using it as an example to oppose anything, and as you say here, that is clearly your position.

2. It is not just the laws either... but policy.

3. You are clearly obfuscating here to support dudes pretending to be women going into women spaces. 

4. Lets prove that out, just be blunt here, be clear and I will even avoid loaded language:  Are you OK with trans women going into women's spaces? Yes or No?

5. Do you care at all how much that impacts women? Yes or No?

6. Are you just fine seeing a trans woman up on the podium in 1st place, preventing a woman from winning and having that spot?

7. It is not my problem to deal with some girl who surgically altered herself to the point she looks like a man. That is her problem to deal with and explain to people as to why she is trying to use the ladies room or not. 

8. Can you at least agree that is wrong for a dude who clearly looks like a dude trying to look like a woman using women spaces?

9 If all you are going to do is offer a baseless assertion that is obviously wrong, all I have to do is point out it is wrong. 

10. Once again, just a factual observation, not just me saying it. 

11. Once again... if YOU want to make it personal for yourself, that is on you. YOU trying to make it personal for me has nothing to do with anything. My being upset or not has nothing to do with anything. It is just you trying to cast negative emotions on me when not only are those irrelevant, you have no clue. 
 

1. Ok I read it again and you're right it does read that way.  No, that's not the reason I'm opposed to bathroom bans but what DO you say to the problem I posed ?  How do you decide if 'dude looks like a lady' ?

2. What's the difference ?

3. No.  Obfuscating ?  I mean, it *could* be my main argument I suppose and that wouldn't be obfuscating would it ?

4. Yes or no ?  Why so simple ?  It's a broad question and I don't have one take on every woman's space out there.  Generally I'm ok with the idea, yes.

5.  Yes

6.  I don't watch women's sports and I don't care about the sports stuff.  If they ban trans women from women's boxing it's ok with me.

7.  Ok.  But you want a say in that right ?  You're part of the community who decides if it's ok so you are involved as part of the public I guess.

8. Which 'women spaces' ?  Bathrooms ? No... there were both-sexes bathrooms in a high school I went to (obviously many many years ago) and nobody cared.   It's a culture thing.

9. I say your assertion is wrong that you can't declare a gender.  So is this part of the discussion done yet ?  I sure hope so.

10. No it's not.  So NOW are we done ?

11. You already said you're not upset, so now your PERSONAL opinions and judgements are the personal part.  Such as explaining why you think gender can't change and convincing me of your argument.  So far you just said that people can't change gender and that's a fact.  Not much of an argument IMO.

[herbie]

WTF are YOU doing in a public washroom staring at others' genitals? You're the pervert.  If you're even thinking about the other person's junk in a public toilet!

Edited May 16 by herbie

[User]

3 hours ago, herbie said:

WTF are YOU doing in a public washroom staring at others' genitals? You're the pervert.  If you're even thinking about the other person's junk in a public toilet!

Narrator: He screamed into the void...

[herbie]

The void is YOU. Specifically that void between your ears.

[User]

3 hours ago, herbie said:

The void is YOU. Specifically that void between your ears.

Narrator: He screamed into the void again. 

[User]

On 5/15/2025 at 8:23 PM, Michael Hardner said:

1. Ok I read it again and you're right it does read that way.  No, that's not the reason I'm opposed to bathroom bans but what DO you say to the problem I posed ?  How do you decide if 'dude looks like a lady' ?

Easy... it is a dude that looks like a lady. 

You want to throw out all common sense here for the most extreme example. This is why we just set the rule that men use men's facilities and women use women's facilities. If a man or woman does such a good job as pretending to be something they are not, it is on them. 

On 5/15/2025 at 8:23 PM, Michael Hardner said:

2. What's the difference ?

You don't understand the difference between laws and policy? The point was clear. You are obfuscating by being hyper-specific to avoid the point. Men do not belong in women's spaces and vice versa. 

On 5/15/2025 at 8:23 PM, Michael Hardner said:

3. No.  Obfuscating ?  I mean, it *could* be my main argument I suppose and that wouldn't be obfuscating would it ?

LOL, so first you say no, but then you go on to say it could be your main argument. Then you go on to answer my other questions in the affirmative. 

On 5/15/2025 at 8:23 PM, Michael Hardner said:

4. Yes or no ?  Why so simple ?  It's a broad question and I don't have one take on every woman's space out there.  Generally I'm ok with the idea, yes.

Because you keep being hyper-specific to avoid answering. Glad you finally did here, that you are OK with dudes going into women's spaces. 

Which, to my earlier point, is why I was calling you out for posting such silly pictures and making your arguments about opposing federal laws... when at the end of the day, you are just fine with dudes in women's spaces. 

We are going to fundamentally disagree here, in that women should feel safe and confident in a changing room, that they won't have a male in there with them getting naked and exposing themselves or seeing them as they might be in various stages of undressing. 

I care about this because women do too. Women have complained about the madness of forcing these dudes into their spaces. 

On 5/15/2025 at 8:23 PM, Michael Hardner said:

6.  I don't watch women's sports and I don't care about the sports stuff.  If they ban trans women from women's boxing it's ok with me.

See, this is the obfuscation I am talking about. You hyper focus on boxing. So, you are just fine with men beating women in every other physical competition?

On 5/15/2025 at 8:23 PM, Michael Hardner said:

7.  Ok.  But you want a say in that right ?  You're part of the community who decides if it's ok so you are involved as part of the public I guess.

My point is the same as above, if someone wants to alter themselves and their appearance to the extreme point they look convincingly like something they are not, it is their problem. Not mine. 

If you walk around covered in body piercings and tattoos, you don't get to complain that people stare at you and treat you differently.

On 5/15/2025 at 8:23 PM, Michael Hardner said:

8. Which 'women spaces' ?  Bathrooms ? No... there were both-sexes bathrooms in a high school I went to (obviously many many years ago) and nobody cared.   It's a culture thing.

More obfuscation. 

If they are both-sex bathrooms, that is not a woman's space. 

On 5/15/2025 at 8:23 PM, Michael Hardner said:

9. I say your assertion is wrong that you can't declare a gender.  So is this part of the discussion done yet ?  I sure hope so.

That was not my assertion. You can declare yourself to be anything you want, it doesn't make you that thing. This is a simple statement of reality. 

You are avoiding this because it is more obfuscation so you can avoid having to admit the truth because you support the trans madness. 

On 5/15/2025 at 8:23 PM, Michael Hardner said:

10. No it's not.  So NOW are we done ?

Nope. 

On 5/15/2025 at 8:23 PM, Michael Hardner said:

11. You already said you're not upset, so now your PERSONAL opinions and judgements are the personal part.  Such as explaining why you think gender can't change and convincing me of your argument.  So far you just said that people can't change gender and that's a fact.  Not much of an argument IMO.

Yeah, I know what I said, but you still refuse to acknowledge that you were interjecting crap about me personally that is irrelevant. 

If I sit here characterizing you as being an emotional cry baby... does that add anything to the discussion? No. We agreed to keep things to the points being made, not make it personal. You forget that?

That which can be asserted without facts, evidence, or logic can be rejected without it as well. 

[Michael Hardner]

20 minutes ago, User said:

Easy... it is a dude that looks like a lady. 

You want to throw out all common sense here for the most extreme example. This is why we just set the rule that men use men's facilities and women use women's facilities. If a man or woman does such a good job as pretending to be something they are not, it is on them. 

You don't understand the difference between laws and policy? The point was clear. You are obfuscating by being hyper-specific to avoid the point. Men do not belong in women's spaces and vice versa. 

LOL, so first you say no, but then you go on to say it could be your main argument. Then you go on to answer my other questions in the affirmative. 

Because you keep being hyper-specific to avoid answering. Glad you finally did here, that you are OK with dudes going into women's spaces. 

Which, to my earlier point, is why I was calling you out for posting such silly pictures and making your arguments about opposing federal laws... when at the end of the day, you are just fine with dudes in women's spaces. 

We are going to fundamentally disagree here, in that women should feel safe and confident in a changing room, that they won't have a male in there with them getting naked and exposing themselves or seeing them as they might be in various stages of undressing. 

I care about this because women do too. Women have complained about the madness of forcing these dudes into their spaces. 

See, this is the obfuscation I am talking about. You hyper focus on boxing. So, you are just fine with men beating women in every other physical competition?

My point is the same as above, if someone wants to alter themselves and their appearance to the extreme point they look convincingly like something they are not, it is their problem. Not mine. 

If you walk around covered in body piercings and tattoos, you don't get to complain that people stare at you and treat you differently.

More obfuscation. 

If they are both-sex bathrooms, that is not a woman's space. 

That was not my assertion. You can declare yourself to be anything you want, it doesn't make you that thing. This is a simple statement of reality. 

You are avoiding this because it is more obfuscation so you can avoid having to admit the truth because you support the trans madness. 

Nope. 

Yeah, I know what I said, but you still refuse to acknowledge that you were interjecting crap about me personally that is irrelevant. 

If I sit here characterizing you as being an emotional cry baby... does that add anything to the discussion? No. We agreed to keep things to the points being made, not make it personal. You forget that?

That which can be asserted without facts, evidence, or logic can be rejected without it as well. 

Seriously ?  It's been five days... I thought this was done... Ok I will respond when i can then...