Anticonstitutional sedition

[suds]

On 7/16/2024 at 3:09 PM, myata said:

An attempt to overthrow democratic government; or prevent it from ascending by compromising or "stealing" a democratic election would be considered a crime against the state in most democracies. This isn't a small matter. The Constitution, checks and balances were supposed to guard and protect the society and democracy against such attempts.

Except they aren't working. There's no functioning mechanism, tool or instrument that can a) determine and b) prosecute such cases with the confidence and support of the majority of the citizens.

This is a dysfunction of democracy. It is a glaring weakness. Theatrics and shows may try to distract from it, but they can do nothing to make it go away. The Constitution isn't protected any longer. And it means that the democracy is under threat.

Not a dysfunction of democracy but a dysfunction of security. And those in charge of security were forewarned. Over 1000 protesters charged and 100's imprisoned. But you figure there were no repercussions. If you want to live in a free country then this is the crap you have to accept once in a while. Next to nobody who entered the Capitol building that day was carrying a firearm. If the intent was to overthrow a government then these guys were strictly amateurs.

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Edited July 18, 2024 by suds

[myata]

2 hours ago, suds said:

Not a dysfunction of democracy but a dysfunction of security.

Honestly? If this will be, from now and on, a normal state of affairs; if we stop accepting the results of democratic election if they wouldn't go our way; if we call mobs to protest forever and storm government buildings after every and each election: would it look and walk as the same democracy we used to know?

But wait, there's more: if anyone who got to sit in the chair even for one term, could go tasking their officials "to find them votes" after the election and with complete impunity, would look like an African democracy or the Putin's, already?

Let's be honest with ourselves: we weren't used to it. It wasn't seen as normal only a few years back. Now you're telling it's OK: so does it mean that it was OK always, we just didn't do it, for some weird reason? Or something has changed, in us and with us?

[suds]

51 minutes ago, myata said:

Honestly? If this will be, from now and on, a normal state of affairs; if we stop accepting the results of democratic election if they wouldn't go our way; if we call mobs to protest forever and storm government buildings after every and each election: would it look and walk as the same democracy we used to know?

But wait, there's more: if anyone who got to sit in the chair even for one term, could go tasking their officials "to find them votes" after the election and with complete impunity, would look like an African democracy or the Putin's, already?

Let's be honest with ourselves: we weren't used to it. It wasn't seen as normal only a few years back. Now you're telling it's OK: so does it mean that it was OK always, we just didn't do it, for some weird reason? Or something has changed, in us and with us?

What went on during the summer that preceded Jan 6 wasn't normal either but it happened. The only difference was that Jan 6 affected politicians and government buildings instead of ordinary Americans trying to protect their homes, businesses, and communities. Is that where the line should be drawn? I don't think so. Violent protest has a long history in the U.S. and they look at these things a lot differently then we do. But don't kid yourself either, a lot depends on whose doing the protesting and which political party they're affiliated to. Trump had no business doing what he did, but there were a few republicans that had legitimate grievances. The possibility of overturning the election was  zero. All I can say for certain is that I would not put up with that violent rioting crap in my own country.  We do see eye to eye on some things except when it comes to questioning authority. That's where you kind of surprise me.

[myata]

12 hours ago, suds said:

Trump had no business doing what he did, but there were a few republicans that had legitimate grievances. The possibility of overturning the election was  zero.

I condemn violence in any form; it's not an answer to police brutality and I don't know what it could be. But we are talking about very specific thing here: a conspiracy to overturn or steal, on false pretenses, a democratic election. The charges of conspiracy have been laid: how can the society ignore them now? Not possible; either it's a normal, legitimate act and avenue from now on for every sitting president to try; or there has to be a sanction to prevent it in the future. Either way, it either confirms the norms that exist or establishes a new normal. Just ignore it and it'll go away, no way.

I disagree that you can rely on the formal system forever, "no chance": things change. Congress check on the executive is fully dysfunctional, it's 100% partisan now. Contenders no longer concede the loss but call on their supporters to deny it and protest forever. Impartiality and independence of the justice system is being eroded. All of this is real and factual. And if the society would now accept attempts to steal elections as a normality just find me more votes, would it still be a first world democracy or an African one?

Erosion of democracy is a real thing - this much is known from history. And it's not something that happens all at ones, it's made of small concessions and steps. Just like rust and corrosion in the physical world.

[robosmith]

On 7/18/2024 at 5:21 AM, Five of swords said:

Corporations don't need good managers.

Thanks for proving you don't know what you're talking about. 

On 7/18/2024 at 6:48 AM, Nationalist said:

This is all so pathetic.

Libbies must do and say anything to obscure the facts that clearly supported the idea that the 2020 election was fraudulent. From the illegal decisions to allow all those mail-in ballots, to the counting machines that even Democrats were leery of before 2020. The "broken water mains", the pallets of ballots trucked from state to state, all of it stunk like a rat. INCLUDING Hunter's laptop!

But the Libbies...to this day...hide behind..."It was Covid". So convenient and such chickensh1t.

Libbies and in particular @myata...You are fooling nobody. It is Brandon and his handlers who are destroying America. From the surrender to the Taliban, the new wars, the millions of illegals allowed...Hell INVITED to enter the USA, the fentanyl killing people, the in-your-face crime, the inflation and everything else they've done that has done nothing but sh1t on the American people and indeed, all people of the world. This Libbie chickensh1t ENDS NOW...myata.

MAGA!

Thanks for demonstrating you are still foolish enough to believe FOS LIES.

Trump LOST his 60+ court cases and that MEANS NO EVIDENCE. Duh

[User]

30 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Trump LOST his 60+ court cases and that MEANS NO EVIDENCE. Duh

Gore lost his court cases too... yet you STILL claim it was not legitimate and lie about what happened. 

 

 

[Five of swords]

1 hour ago, robosmith said:

Thanks for proving you don't know what you're talking about. 

Thanks for demonstrating you are still foolish enough to believe FOS LIES.

Trump LOST his 60+ court cases and that MEANS NO EVIDENCE. Duh

Yeah. Not only do corporations not need good managers...literally every corporate manager with no exception is totally incompetent. If you feel personally attacked by that the sorry. 

[robosmith]

7 minutes ago, Five of swords said:

Yeah. Not only do corporations not need good managers...literally every corporate manager with no exception is totally incompetent. If you feel personally attacked by that the sorry. 

I don't. I know that you don't know what you're talking about. The FACT is, there are MANY good corporate managers.

I've worked for several.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Five of swords said:

Yeah. Not only do corporations not need good managers...literally every corporate manager with no exception is totally incompetent. If you feel personally attacked by that the sorry. 

So you say you're a corporate manager then?

[Five of swords]

9 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

So you say you're a corporate manager then?

Lol...you are trying so hard to troll me into giving you information about myself. Seethe on.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Five of swords said:

Lol...you are trying so hard to troll me into giving you information about myself. Seethe on.

LOL  no kid it was a simple joke.  You claimed managers were all incompetent. You're obviously incompetent.  So i asked if you were a manager.    I honestly don't believe for  a minute you're old enough to have a full time job  

But it's hilarious that you were so incompetent that you didn't get my joke about you being incompetent   Thanks for proving my point i guess?