Of Science, Morality and the Better World (with Crocodiles)

[myata]

And one more time of uncounted many I've stumbled on a sci fiction story in the undying genre of saving the world from an existential threat together. With the crocodiles.

The first notable one that I can still recall was Carl Sagan's "The Contact" made into a well-known movie picture. The plot is always the same, with variation of decorations (this new one is actually entertaining, by the author of "The Martian").

An existential threat discovered (for credibility, interspersed with foreign-sounding names and programs). The humanity instantly forgets all divides (moral ones, included: in a flick, effortlessly and naturally, in those stories - what was the fuss, really?) and begins working together for the common goal. Iran, Russia, North Korea you name it, all come together in sweet scientific harmony. Human with a crocodile, what an idyll. For now, that is.

Fun as it looks and feels one question is always left out and never comes to the fore: OK great; so, what's next? How does this change anything? What does and can it change in the DNA, and the psyche of the crocodiles?

Two scenarios are possible, speaking scientifically. One: we did not succeed. Then, the harmony didn't come to much, the process (and reading) was fun though.

Two, we succeed with a minor side effect that the crocodiles get the technologies and powers they couldn't have dreamed before. North Korea, Russia, Iran and the bunch all of a sudden obtained access to unseen and unprecedented alien technology. As they are, in all beauty. That has to be good, right?

How is it possible, such an abysmal, glaring gap between advanced intelligence in one area, and a glaring gaping ignorance, no scratch it: an absolute void, vacuum of a glimpse of thought in the other? Which one is more important? Will it be a better universe if we, as we are, skip a few steps of technology? Now they are invading, burning and destroying countries, building prison camps on the national scale. But look, we could do it with planets! Wow and wow, amazing science!

Ironic, as it looks. But given that the theme never seem to dry out there must be some lasting appeal, attraction to it. What is it? How?

[Michael Hardner]

Projects make great stories, if they're making something spectacular.

I guess getting the whole world to help makes it just.... Bigger. Of course there's a conceptual flaw that you have pointed out. 

 

Here's a similar phenomenon that I got from your post: Vietnam resisted the awesome force of the American Military with all its technology, but couldn't build a functioning economy after the Yankees left.

[User]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Vietnam resisted the awesome force of the American Military with all its technology

Not really. 

We were killing NVA wholesale on the battlefield. But like every military action since WWII, we never fought to win. We never invaded North Vietnam or full scale took the fight to them. They never had to resist much of anything. We sat in South Vietnam and pretended like the NVA were not pouring across the DMZ to fight us. 

[myata]

Curiosity will get the better of us? Yeah sigh we all heard about atrocities and camps sigh yawn... but how about something cool, that alien f-ing centrifuge? Sounds so exciting and what if we only try (playing with it) yet again?

[August1991]

On 7/7/2024 at 8:18 PM, myata said:

...

How is it possible, such an abysmal, glaring gap between advanced intelligence in one area, and a glaring gaping ignorance, no scratch it: an absolute void, vacuum of a glimpse of thought in the other?

....

Pre-Note: I am not religious. The universe is huge.

Our planet is weird. We have internal magnets protecting ourselves against radiation. We have a moon - causing tides. We suffered a catastrophic meteor and then mammals survived.

I reckon that this is chance - and an indication of random.

Edited July 10, 2024 by August1991

[myata]

1 minute ago, August1991 said:

I reckon that this is chance - and an indication of chance

Once we're down to a jar of Caligulas with nukes, it can be quite a short-lived one. No surprises.

[August1991]

2 minutes ago, myata said:

Once we're down to a jar of Caligulas with nukes, it can be quite a short-lived one. No surprises.

We people in Canada get along.

Trudeau fils may be like his mother - but his father was not.

[myata]

Our little grain of sand is safe here: in the jar of Caligulas, with nukes. That works, sure.

[myata]

I'm kind of guessing where it's coming from: fascination. It's easy to become fascinated with science: look, I put some scribbles here and lo, the planet is following my calculation! I'm a God, almost... wait. Can I make it change its course.. no, a simpler one: can we feed the hungry folk, with all that knowledge and technology? There are more hungry people now than in the time of Newton. More are dying in wars: that's progress?

And then, from fascination, all the way to the illusion of the universal answer. The language too. With the crocodiles?

But no, it will last forever, why worry about such minute passing trifles? Let's unite in the admiration of the beauty of the universal design (with the crocodiles).. wait: how long exactly will they last in the jar of modern day Caligulas, with nukes?

Just a fairy tale, a pipe dream of universal harmony with the crocodiles. Soooo old, and still alive. Science tells us how to make things. And it tells us nothing about why we should make some, and never, the others. That one we're still struggling to learn and the passing park seems to be way off. Will we make it? God may know. The difference.

[myata]

Just noticed that the year of the publication was 2021. That would be year 7 of Russia's invasion into an independent European country and de facto end of the post-WWII world order based on the international law.

Not a problem! Where's the problem? The piece is interspersed with Russian-sounding names, acronyms, references that the new Einstein on steroids in the interstellar space just can't stop spilling them in ostensible deep admiration. Why Russia though? The amazing and breathtaking etc technology was first developed in Germany (yes in that period) and as true scientists aren't we supposed to give it the true and verifiable fair due? To shell and ruin cities full of civilians to be exact - just what Russia is doing these days, if we still want to retain the memory.

A sigh of despair... the lesson never seems to sink in even with those among us endowed with sophisticated intelligence. To infinity and beyond - or was it just another spontaneous planetary event?, with the crocodiles?

Edited July 12, 2024 by myata

[myata]

Are scientists incurable? Or just some?

"Earth's had five mass extinction events in the past. And humans are clever. We'll pull through".

In 2021. With Putin and Xi, in plain sight - and vicinity.

What about the age of Caligulas, with the nukes: enough to annihilate the planet multiple times over? How many of these did we have in the billions of years of intelligent evolution? How long will we pull through it?

In the plain sight. Unbelievable. Incurable?