Trudeau's speech supporting the ICC against Israel and a two-state solution is ludicrous

[ExFlyer]

58 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

And they've been in charge of the school system for 18 years and raised a whole generation of fanatics. And polls taken both before and since Oct 7 show they would win in both Gaza and the West Bank.

Sort of like Quebec??? LOL

You may be rigth but until it happens, no one knows or can even ,ake a reasonable guess.

I think the palastinian people know what damage hams has caused and would not vote them back in.

Hamas won with less than half the voters but that sort of thing happens all the time when your political system is inundated with 5, 6 or more parties trying to win. Winners can have as low as 25% of the votes.

[WestCanMan]

On 5/25/2024 at 10:53 AM, ExFlyer said:

No, did all my 35 years service in the SAR world in Canada

Stop embarrassing our country. 

[Scott Mayers]

On 5/25/2024 at 10:12 AM, blackbird said:

The simple fact is Canada, the U.S. and other countries demanding a two state solution for Israel is completely unrealistic and shows their complete ignorance of the situation.

The Palestinians have a number of terrorist organizations in their midst which have absolutely no interest in living in peace with Israel.  So to carve up Israel to give them their own state would only weaken Israel and threaten Israel's very existence.  The Israelis know this well but it appears many countries and leaders outside Israel have no understanding at all about this.  It is frustrating to see Trudeau adoringly bow to the ICC ruling saying Israel must stop fighting Hamas and create a two-state solution.  He knows nothing about what he is talking about.  He proves again he is just a puppet globalist who blindly follows whatever the U.N. and it's sister organizations say.

Some European countries have even unilaterally declared they recognize a Palestinian state or will do so.  This is reminiscent of the 1,500 years of European antisemitism that the Jews lived through.  Apparently antisemitism in the world still widely exists and in fact is getting worse.  Unfortunately, Canada is doing a poor job of opposing it and it is worse in Canada as well.  When we have leaders that talk the way they do about the situation in the middle east, what can we expect?  The Liberals and NDP are not helpful.

"

The sad fact is that the only Palestinian state that might arise at the moment would permanently be at war with Israel. A state that supports and glorifies Palestinian suicide-bombers, missile launchers, and rapists against Israel’s civilian population; a state where the airwaves and newspapers are filled with viciously antisemitic and bloodthirsty anti-Israel propaganda; a state whose leaders crisscross the globe and lobby every international institution to vilify and criminalize Israel.

The only Palestinian state that might arise at the moment is a state whose political and religious figures outright deny the historic ties of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel, and demand settlement of Palestinian refugees in pre-1967 Israel as a way of swamping and destroying the Jewish state.

The only Palestinian state that might arise at the moment is, in fact, a state like the current Palestinian Authority in the West Bank, aside from being corrupt and tyrannical towards its people, commits all the above crimes against Israel; or a state like “Hamastan” in Gaza that would repeat the October 7 massacres one thousand times over.

And therefore, the war against the Palestinian threat in Gaza and the West Bank cannot be cut short. That’s an Israeli consensus; rare, but real and valuable."

Preventing peace: The cost of rewarding Hamas with statehood after Oct. 7 - opinion (msn.com)

I agree to the fact that a 'two-state' solution would not work and for many of the same reasons. However, you probably presume a 'one-state' that is FOR Israel, which still will not work without having absolute powers to genetically annihilate ALL Palestinians. So are you for this 'solution'?

I have a proposed different solution: either a 'zero-state' solution for both OR a 'one-state' solution that creates a NEW country that is actually democratically sincere for all people? That is, would you be for a state that removes both religious extremist constitutions that treat people individually as humans without regards to their religious affiliation AND that SEPARATES the power of their government from making laws that are used to favor or disfavor SPECIFIC religious beliefs of those said individuals? 

[Venandi]

36 minutes ago, Scott Mayers said:

...treat people individually as humans without regards to their religious affiliation AND that SEPARATES the power of their government from making laws that are used to favor or disfavor SPECIFIC religious beliefs of those said individuals? 

Something like this maybe:

 - Declares that basic human rights are based on the recognition of the value of man, the sanctity of his life, and the fact that he is free. Defines human freedom as right to leave and enter the country, privacy (including speech, writings, and notes), intimacy, and protection from unlawful searches of one's person or property. Any violation of this right shall be "by a law befitting the values of the State, enacted for a proper purpose, and to an extent no greater than is required". This law also includes instruction regarding its own permanence and protection from changes by means of emergency regulations.

- Guarantees every citizen or resident the right to engage in any occupation, profession, or trade". Any violation of this right shall be "by a law befitting the values of the State, enacted for a proper purpose, and to an extent no greater than is required". This law also includes instruction regarding its own permanence and protection from changes by means of emergency regulations.

I left the word Israel out of the above on purpose. Here's a bit more with the word left in... Hamas will always and forever choke on this part:

- Defines Israel as the nation-state of the Jewish people. The Nation-State Law also asserts that the Jewish people have the unique claim to national self-determination in the State of Israel, defines Hebrew as the official language of the state, and gives Arabic a special status in the state. It additionally defines the national symbols, holidays, and calendar of the state.

I'll just leave it at that I guess, I don't see Israel as the impediment to peace here. It might just be the neighbours...

Edited May 28, 2024 by Venandi

[Scott Mayers]

14 minutes ago, Venandi said:

Something like this maybe:

 - Declares that basic human rights are based on the recognition of the value of man, the sanctity of his life, and the fact that he is free. Defines human freedom as right to leave and enter the country, privacy (including speech, writings, and notes), intimacy, and protection from unlawful searches of one's person or property. Any violation of this right shall be "by a law befitting the values of the State, enacted for a proper purpose, and to an extent no greater than is required". This law also includes instruction regarding its own permanence and protection from changes by means of emergency regulations.

- Guarantees every citizen or resident the right to engage in any occupation, profession, or trade". Any violation of this right shall be "by a law befitting the values of the State, enacted for a proper purpose, and to an extent no greater than is required". This law also includes instruction regarding its own permanence and protection from changes by means of emergency regulations.

I left the word Israel out of the above on purpose. Here's a bit more with the word left in... Hamas will always and forever choke on this part:

- Defines Israel as the nation-state of the Jewish people. The Nation-State Law also asserts that the Jewish people have the unique claim to national self-determination in the State of Israel, defines Hebrew as the official language of the state, and gives Arabic a special status in the state. It additionally defines the national symbols, holidays, and calendar of the state.

I'll just leave it at that I guess, I don't see Israel as the impediment to peace here. It might just be the neighbours...

I AM BEING CENSORED AS I WRITE AND SO HAVE TO LEAVE. I'M OBVIOUSLY NOT WELCOME HERE BY WHOMEVER IS RUNNING THIS SITE. Fascism is real! Wow.

[Michael Hardner]

On 5/25/2024 at 12:12 PM, blackbird said:

The simple fact is Canada, the U.S. and other countries demanding a two state solution for Israel is completely unrealistic and shows their complete ignorance of the situation.

Here are the countries and organizations who support two-state solution:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-state_solution

Those opposed are, as listed, Israel (and this is recent) and Iran.

So, you are proclaiming "ignorance" of all of these separate bodies in comparison to... your opinion. This is so arrogant a position as to not be tenable, and makes me not consider you to be serious in your posts.

[Venandi]

I'm reminded of the rhetoric leading up to the WMD coalition. I remember watching Colin Powell give a speech to the UN and feeling badly for him as the evidence/intelligence presented was pretty weak. The CIA director looked a tad uncomfortable with it all too as I recall.

When considering what is tenable and not, unanimity amongst separate bodies doesn't necessarily imply correctness any more than offering an opinion here implies arrogance. Getting it wrong in that part of the world through force or coercion, assuming that the people there want what you want, that they share your views, your values, your interpretation of historical events or can be bullied into accepting resolutions devised by others is how I would define arrogance. As an instrument of foreign policy, that particular brand of arrogance hasn't worked out so excellently over the years... at least from what I've seen.

Frankly, I see a lack of situational awareness on display here but most of it (I think) is well intentioned, even if it isn't well informed, practical, or acceptable to the belligerent parties as a workable option. 

Trying to negotiate with Hamas is a bit like some of the conversations I see on this very forum. Any and all matters of substance are drowned in a sea of ridicule and name calling... and that's on far less difficult topics than this.

The only simple part of this equation are the motives that drive Hamas, and even that seems to be a matter of some debate.  

 

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2024 by Venandi

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, Scott Mayers said:

I AM BEING CENSORED AS I WRITE AND SO HAVE TO LEAVE. I'M OBVIOUSLY NOT WELCOME HERE BY WHOMEVER IS RUNNING THIS SITE. Fascism is real! Wow.

I doubt you are being censored.  It is just not done.  You may have had a computer glitch or incorrectly entered some data.

[blackbird]

It is going to be difficult to get rid of Hamas because of the interference by states like Iran and their proxies.  That is why it is going to be next to impossible to have peace in the region.  I am not sure what Canada expects to accomplish with its policies of supporting UNRWA, a questionable organization which has been found to have terrorist participants.

Canada's action in bringing in or saying they are going to bring in 5,000 Palestinian immigrants from Gaza is questionable.  We have enough problems in Canada now with extremist protesters and antisemitism.

Edited May 28, 2024 by blackbird

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Here are the countries and organizations who support two-state solution:

Apparently you are not familiar with the history of the world's antisemitism.  Counting countries which are basically antisemitic means nothing.

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

This is so arrogant a position as to not be tenable,

I simply spoke the truth which you have trouble digesting.  You should know from history peace is practically impossible in that region.  

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Apparently you are not familiar with the history of the world's antisemitism.  Counting countries which are basically antisemitic means nothing.

Care to retract ?

You are ignoring G7, EU and...

 

Quote

 

China

China's Foreign Minister Wang Yi has stated that "China calls for [...] the formulation of a specific timetable and road map for the implementation of the 'two-state solution'".^[96]

 India

India's External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar has stated that "the two state solution is necessary [and] is more urgent than it was before".^[100]

Canada, Australia and New Zealand

Canada's Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Australia's Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and New Zealand's Prime Minister Christopher Luxon have issued a joint statement, saying "We recommit ourselves to [...] a just and enduring peace in the form of a two-state solution".^[104]

 

 

Edited May 28, 2024 by Michael Hardner

[blackbird]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

You are ignoring G7, EU and...

Care to retract ?

There is nothing to retract.  Europe itself has a 1,500 year history of antisemtism.  What has changed?

The world in general is antisemitic.  You seem to trust the antisemitic U.N. 

History proves there will be no peace in the middle east until Biblical prophecy is fulfilled.

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

There is nothing to retract.  Europe itself has a 1,500 year history of antisemtism.  What has changed?

The world in general is antisemitic.  You seem to trust the antisemitic U.N. 

History proves there will be no peace in the middle east until Biblical prophecy is fulfilled.

Really it sounds like you just want Palestine wiped out.  

Do you ever wonder why religion is on the decline ?  The Age of Enlightenment started about 350 years ago... you should get on the other side of that wave IMO.

[Legato]

6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Do you ever wonder why religion is on the decline ?  The Age of Enlightenment started about 350 years ago... you should get on the other side of that wave IMO.

Not if you are of the Muslim faith.

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, Legato said:

Not if you are of the Muslim faith.

I'm pretty sure there are Muslims that are more progressive than saying a two-state solution is impossible.

Yasir Arafat vs blackbird ?  

Hmmm...

[blackbird]

20 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Really it sounds like you just want Palestine wiped out. 

That is a false claim.  I simply pointed out the world is antisemitic in general.

The truth is the world is fighting against God and part of that is antisemtism.

Nobody can fight against God and expect to win.

"

God has always had His hand on Israel.

By Stephanie Hertzenberg

The Bible is overflowing with prophecies. Many of them revolve around the Messiah, how people will know when He comes and what He will do when He arrives on Earth. There are also a number of prophecies that state the signs that will indicate that the end of the world is near. The vast majority of biblical prophecies, however, revolve around one subject, Israel. 

Israel and her people are the subject of most of the prophecies in the Bible. The Old Testament is dominated by tales of the Israelites attempting and failing to keep God’s laws. When they fail, the Israelites are usually warned by a prophet of the doom that is coming for them. These prophecies either come true or inspire the Israelites to return to a righteous way of life. Eventually, the Israelites more or less run out of strikes, and God brings down a final set of terrible prophecies upon them. These prophecies have been the source of fascination across the world for generations especially as many of those prophecies have already been fulfilled. Here are eight biblical prophecies about Israel that have come true already."

8 Biblical Prophecies About Israel That Have Come True - Beliefnet