Complete Removal of the GST

[SamStranger]

If the Conservatives win on January 23rd, they will bring the GST from 7% to 6% right away. Then, Id say... around 2008 it will go down to 5%. If Harper runs for a second term in 2010, apart of his plan will be to eliminate the GST completely. The Conservatives (Ironically) are the only party with intent to get rid of it. The Liberals and the NDP love the GST, thats why they will never touch it. 2% in the next 4 years may seem minimal, but rest assured that it will be completely gone by 2010, or the next election-- only If the Conservatives Win.

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[Rovik]

If the Conservatives win on January 23rd, they will bring the GST from 7% to 6% right away. Then, Id say... around 2008 it will go down to 5%. If Harper runs for a second term in 2010, apart of his plan will be to eliminate the GST completely. The Conservatives (Ironically) are the only party with intent to get rid of it. The Liberals and the NDP love the GST, thats why they will never touch it. 2% in the next 4 years may seem minimal, but rest assured that it will be completely gone by 2010, or the next election-- only If the Conservatives Win.

:

If they do this, it would be quite ironic since the Conservatives brought in the GST in the first place. Second, how would govt. recoup the lost monies from the GST without cutting services or raising taxes? Unless Canada goes into a super boom, this would be very tough.

[Riverwind]

If Harper runs for a second term in 2010, apart of his plan will be to eliminate the GST completely. The Conservatives (Ironically) are the only party with intent to get rid of it.

If they do they would be idiots. Consumption taxes are good, income taxes are bad. Eliminating the GST would mean higher income taxes. Would you rather have the gov't take your money from your paycheck or at the cash register? You can't answer neither because the gov't has to tax something.

[kimmy]

I think it would be neat if they raised the GST and eliminated income tax altogether.

-k

{however, my pocket calculator doesnt have enough zeroes to figure out whether this would be fiscally viable.}

[Guest eureka]

They are idiots: therefore they might do it. A fool in politics is more dangerous than a villain.

[SamStranger]

Are you guys insane!!! For God's sake... are you people civilians like me, or beaurocrats!?? Praising the GST!!! Actually supporting it!!!?? What happened to Mulrooney being the most hated Prime Minister because of the GSt then Mr. Cretien comming to the rescue 'we will get rid of the GST!' and then never did it... and you idiots want to keep it!!!.... You guys are amoung the most retarted people Ive ever talked too. Income Taxes shouldnt even exsist... they were introduced for finacial support during the great War. And the GST certainly should not exsist, and the Tories will get rid of it... Ironic as that sounds, its still reality.

Please tell me you were kidding...??? Praising the GSt... when I buy a car I pay 2 grand or more in taxes... you guys enjoy that???

[kimmy]

amoung the most retarted people Ive ever talked too.

It's not often I laugh out loud while I'm reading messages on this board, but I did at this.

-k

[GostHacked]

Are you guys insane!!! For God's sake... are you people civilians like me, or beaurocrats!?? Praising the GST!!! Actually supporting it!!!?? What happened to Mulrooney being the most hated Prime Minister because of the GSt then Mr. Cretien comming to the rescue 'we will get rid of the GST!' and then never did it... and you idiots want to keep it!!!.... You guys are amoung the most retarted people Ive ever talked too. Income Taxes shouldnt even exsist... they were introduced for finacial support during the great War. And the GST certainly should not exsist, and the Tories will get rid of it... Ironic as that sounds, its still reality.

Please tell me you were kidding...??? Praising the GSt... when I buy a car I pay 2 grand or more in taxes... you guys enjoy that???

The GST was just a hidden consumer tax before. We have been with the GST for this long I say let it stay. The burden would get shifted from one to another. How would you be able to take care of your family (Canada) when your personal income has dropped drasticly.

If you did not pay taxes my friend. You would not have, clean drinking water, maintained roads (even to drive on in the winter) Heath care, public services..... I should not need to go on here If there were no taxes, you can bet your ass you would not be able to afford 1/4 of the luxuries you have now.

Mulronony was hated for more than just the GST.

[August1991]

If Harper runs for a second term in 2010, apart of his plan will be to eliminate the GST completely. The Conservatives (Ironically) are the only party with intent to get rid of it.

If they do they would be idiots. Consumption taxes are good, income taxes are bad. Eliminating the GST would mean higher income taxes. Would you rather have the gov't take your money from your paycheck or at the cash register? You can't answer neither because the gov't has to tax something.

Income taxes with RRSPs (or interest deductibility) amounts to the same thing as a consumption tax such as the GST. Your savings are exempt from taxation.

There is more than one way to skin a cat.

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It's not often I laugh out loud while I'm reading messages on this board, but I did at this.

-k

Retarted? Is that like getting two pies sequentially thrown at you? Or putting on a second layer of red lipstick later in the evening?

[Hicksey]

If the Conservatives win on January 23rd, they will bring the GST from 7% to 6% right away. Then, Id say... around 2008 it will go down to 5%. If Harper runs for a second term in 2010, apart of his plan will be to eliminate the GST completely. The Conservatives (Ironically) are the only party with intent to get rid of it. The Liberals and the NDP love the GST, thats why they will never touch it. 2% in the next 4 years may seem minimal, but rest assured that it will be completely gone by 2010, or the next election-- only If the Conservatives Win.

:

If they do this, it would be quite ironic since the Conservatives brought in the GST in the first place. Second, how would govt. recoup the lost monies from the GST without cutting services or raising taxes? Unless Canada goes into a super boom, this would be very tough.

Not really if you go back and read some history. The GST was created in 1991 to bring the government revenue to help Mulroney emerge from the deficit he inherited and even contributed to some. Unfortunately he was voted out before his government could enjoy their fruits of their policies: GST and NAFTA. But you'll notice it didn't take the Liberals long to see exactly how lucky they were to inherit these tools and eliminated the federal deficit using them. But really, all the Liberals had to do was not get in the way.

[Riverwind]

Income taxes with RRSPs (or interest deductibility) amounts to the same thing as a consumption tax such as the GST. Your savings are exempt from taxation.

RRSPs are not the same as tax free savings. RRSPs offer tax deferrals which means you pay tax on the income eventually. Moreover, RRSP income is taxed at the full marginal rate which means you cannot benefit from the preferential tax treatment for capital gains and dividends.

Our tax system needs to balance taxing income vs. taxing spending. It is already weighted too much on the side if taxing income and will be worse when the conservatives reduce the GST. Eliminating the GST would be maddness. If there is room in the budget for a $30 billion dollar tax cut it should come from income taxes.

[theloniusfleabag]

I am firmly with Sparhawk on this one, and kimmy too...

I think it would be neat if they raised the GST and eliminated income tax altogether.

I have suggested raising the GST to 10%, and eliminating income tax as the best way to help those in the lower tax brackets. If one makes minimum wage, who cares how a 1-2% reduction in GST affects the price of a mink, a jaguar and a pail of caviar. (Just don't let the mink and the Jaguar fight over the pail of fish eggs)

[Hicksey]

I am firmly with Sparhawk on this one, and kimmy too...

I think it would be neat if they raised the GST and eliminated income tax altogether.

I have suggested raising the GST to 10%, and eliminating income tax as the best way to help those in the lower tax brackets. If one makes minimum wage, who cares how a 1-2% reduction in GST affects the price of a mink, a jaguar and a pail of caviar. (Just don't let the mink and the Jaguar fight over the pail of fish eggs)

You really think that a 3% hike in the GST would produce enough income to forgo the income tax system?

The GST is only 7% on most of what we spend. The income tax system, between the feds and provinces take between at least 40% of an $80K income regardless of whether you spend it or not.

To do away with income taxes it would take a tax of about 20-30%.

[Chimera]

I am firmly with Sparhawk on this one, and kimmy too...

I think it would be neat if they raised the GST and eliminated income tax altogether.

I have suggested raising the GST to 10%, and eliminating income tax as the best way to help those in the lower tax brackets. If one makes minimum wage, who cares how a 1-2% reduction in GST affects the price of a mink, a jaguar and a pail of caviar. (Just don't let the mink and the Jaguar fight over the pail of fish eggs)

But the lowest income earners pay no income tax, so as a percentage of income....regressive tax and all. As for day to day goods, if you don't think reducing the GST will amount to anything of value, can I have all of your pocket change everyday too??

[August1991]

Income taxes with RRSPs (or interest deductibility) amounts to the same thing as a consumption tax such as the GST. Your savings are exempt from taxation.

RRSPs are not the same as tax free savings. RRSPs offer tax deferrals which means you pay tax on the income eventually. Moreover, RRSP income is taxed at the full marginal rate which means you cannot benefit from the preferential tax treatment for capital gains and dividends.

And you pay the GST when you spend your savings, too. Same result.

There is no theoretical difference between income tax with RRSP deductions, a straight consumption tax (like the GST) or income tax with interest rate deductions. The difference between them lies in the ease of collection and the ability to make them progressive or not. The income tax is easier to make progressive but harder to collect.

As kimmy has pointed out elsewhere, people on welfare pay no income tax but they do pay GST. True, they are entitled to a GST refund.

[Renegade]

I am firmly with Sparhawk on this one, and kimmy too...

I think it would be neat if they raised the GST and eliminated income tax altogether.

I have suggested raising the GST to 10%, and eliminating income tax as the best way to help those in the lower tax brackets. If one makes minimum wage, who cares how a 1-2% reduction in GST affects the price of a mink, a jaguar and a pail of caviar. (Just don't let the mink and the Jaguar fight over the pail of fish eggs)

A GST reduction doesn't affect the price of caviar since it is considerd a food item and thus is GST exempt.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Renegade,

A GST reduction doesn't affect the price of caviar since it is considerd a food item and thus is GST exempt.

You are right, I stand corrected. It was meant to be a bit 'tongue in cheek', but it seems you are correct. The first time I looked, I read that it was not 'GST-free', but then I realized that I was reading the Australian GST act!

Hicksey,

You really think that a 3% hike in the GST would produce enough income to forgo the income tax system?

Yes and no. I realize that the gov't would lose a substantial amount of revenue. However, given the huge amount of gov't waste, coupled with recent huge surpluses, we have a bit of room. A different approach is needed, I believe.

Take the Gun Registry. What was supposed to be the cheapest way to do things (having a mail-in registry was deemed by the gov't as the absolute most cost-effective of any program) ballooned into a billion+ dollar fiasco. What if the registrations were handed over to the already existing private registries? They are certainly trusted with the registrations of motor vehichles (another possibly deadly weapon) and of businesses and corporate registration. If you get caught in a car without registration (or insurance) then you face hefty, serious fines and possibly jail time. Perhaps the gov't should have stated that you caan own a gun, but you have to pay insurance and registration just as you would a car, with commensurate penalties for failure to comply.

The point is, there are other ways that make sense to make money for the gov't, and better ways to spend our dollars. We might have less of them, but I bet we could have done way more for what we have spent thus far.

[geoffrey]

Increased GST would be bad for business. Things cost more, people spend less. The value of a dollar domestically would decrease because more per capita spending power would be available with no income tax.

The rich would haven all their money here tax free.

This just couldn't work. I'd love to see the experiment, but make sure to notify me so I can move elsewhere first.

No GST and lower income taxes I support though.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear geoffrey,

The value of a dollar domestically would decrease because more per capita spending power would be available with no income tax.

It has been argued that a weaker dollar can be good for business, with incentives for increased trade and tourism.

Increased GST would be bad for business. Things cost more, people spend less

I have to admit, I am from Alberta and we have no provincial tax at the register, so a 3% increase on 'luxuries' doesn't seem like a big deal. Perhaps provincial and federal taxes, and even the GST, can, in the spirit of SSM, also be 'married'.

[Wilber]

As the GST is charged on almost everything you spend, I see little difference between it and an income tax except those who pay the least or no income tax still get to pay GST. I know there are rebates but they still have to pay it up front and I doubt the rebate covers what most of them actually pay.

I just wish the consumption taxes were included in the price. Doing all this mental math to figure out how much money you need to actually pay for something is nuts. You know how much of the price is tax. In the case of fuel where unlike other consumer items, we are paying a tax on top of a tax, it is included. You also pay GST on the 1 1/2 cent per liter deficit reducing tax for a deficit we haven't had for 8 years. How hypocritical is that?

[geoffrey]

It has been argued that a weaker dollar can be good for business, with incentives for increased trade and tourism.

A weaker dollar in purchasing power, not on the international markets. Our dollar will continue to increase until the US stabilizes.

[Riverwind]

As the GST is charged on almost everything you spend, I see little difference between it and an income tax except those who pay the least or no income tax still get to pay GST. I know there are rebates but they still have to pay it up front and I doubt the rebate covers what most of them actually pay.

I have a choice when I spend my money. I don't have a choice when I earn it. If I have to pay tax I would rather pay at the time of my choosing.

I just wish the consumption taxes were included in the price.

If taxes were included in the price then consumers would not see a cent of the 2% reduction: retailers would pocket it.

[Wilber]

"If taxes were included in the price then consumers would not see a cent of the 2% reduction: retailers would pocket it."

I don't buy that. In a competitive market you would be giving all your competitors a 2% price advantage. There are plenty of countries who include the tax in the price. When you buy something in the UK the VAT is included and you know how much it is. It doesn't make the market any less competitive. It's nice when you see something for sale for $4.99, you hand them a five and get a penny change. Like Alberta before the GST.

[Riverwind]

I don't buy that. In a competitive market you would be giving all your competitors a 2% price advantage.

If the GST is added after to the price then the savings are immediate because the posted price does not have to change. However, if it was included in the price the reduction would not happen immediately because the marketplace is not that competitive. In many cases it would not happen at all. We are better off with tax added after the price.

[geoffrey]

If the GST is added after to the price then the savings are immediate because the posted price does not have to change. However, if it was included in the price the reduction would not happen immediately because the marketplace is not that competitive. In many cases it would not happen at all. We are better off with tax added after the price.

Sparhawk is right. If it was in the price we wouldn't see that decrease ever. Prices rarely go down. They'll just wait for inflation to catch up to them.