LAYTON USED PRIVATE HEALTHCARE

[tml12]

http://www.canada.com/national/features/de...c2-24e0381ba5cd

It seems like only Stephen Harper has NEVER used private care.

At this rate, the only way the public system will survive is to elect a majority Conservative government...

[August1991]

I see nothing scandalous in this at all. The article describes the clinic as a "not for profit" private clinic.

The clinic's web site states:

Residents of Ontario who have a valid health card are covered by the provincial health care system for the cost of surgery.

Shouldice

[i happen to feel we should have public health insurance but private provision of health services.]

The article starts by saying "the Canadian Press has learned" without saying how it learned. Then the article goes on to mention Dosanjh.

I suspect that this is an incompetent Liberal effort to go negative on the NDP. The article notes that Martin goes to the private Medisys clinic. Medisys is not covered by the Quebec health insurance scheme.

[newbie]

http://www.canada.com/national/features/de...c2-24e0381ba5cd

It seems like only Stephen Harper has NEVER used public care.

At this rate, the only way the public system will survive is to elect a majority Conservative government...

Well, not in Alberta. Ralph Klein has been pushing for private health care for years.

[newbie]

Oh, wait a minute, I stand corrected:

http://www.thehammer.ca/content/view.php?n...21-klein-pickle

[Melanie_]

It seems like only Stephen Harper has NEVER used public care.

Stephen Harper only uses private health care?

Anyway, it sounds from the article like Layton was unaware that the clinic was not a public facility; he just went where his doctor referred him. Any implied endorsement of private health care seems to be unintentional.

[Wilber]

Whether he knew or not he got the care he needed and used his care card not his credit card.

[uOttawaMan]

LEWL NO HE DIDNT KTHNX

[justcrowing]

I suspect Layton knew it was a private hospital. No matter what city one lives in, we all know which are public and which ones are not in the city we live in. Cry me a river, Jacko!!

[geoffrey]

I suspect Layton knew it was a private hospital. No matter what city one lives in, we all know which are public and which ones are not in the city we live in. Cry me a river, Jacko!!

This is especially a bit of problem because Layton condemned ALL private clinics. It wasn't simply no public money, but a complete ban on any form of private delivery.

[fellowtraveller]

Well, not in Alberta. Ralph Klein has been pushing for private health care for years.

In reality, Quebec is far and away the leader in services being provioded completely outside the public system. BC and Ontario follow, Alberta is in the middle of the pack.

Nobody from Ottawa says much about Quebec because of the asskissing nature of the relationship. The unwarranted invective against Alberta is made out of ignorance and meanness. For the record, Alberta leads the country in public health expenditures per capita, their regional health boards are among the best managed in Canada, they have such groundbreaking initiatives as the recent joint replacement triumph(all within the public system).

Like Newbie, I blame Ralph Klein for this.

[Kiraly]

That's a pretty funny site, Newbie.

[Boru]

This is nonsense.

Did he pay money? -- No.

Is the institute for profit? -- No

Was his service covered 100% by OHIP? -- Yes

Seriously, this is a stretch. Just a pathetic attempt at mud slinging, likely meant to divert attention from the Conservative border runners.

[August1991]

This is nonsense.

Did he pay money? -- No.

Is the institute for profit? -- No

Was his service covered 100% by OHIP? -- Yes

Seriously, this is a stretch. Just a pathetic attempt at mud slinging, likely meant to divert attention from the Conservative border runners.

The problem is that Layton is on record as saying that he wants to have a public health care system. As he said in the debates, "We'll put the public back in public health care."

Going to a private clinic contradicts that. Claiming that he didn't know it was private is politically foolish.

When asked if he would turn to private health care if his wife was in need of a hip replacement and told she would have to wait 18 months or more, Layton said he would not.

Speaking with Peter this morning on the Bill Good Show, Layton said his wife Olivia had her own take on it. “My decision would be to stick with the public system because just because we might be able to afford the private system, what does that do,” asked Layton? “The more of us that make that decision, the more doctors and nurses will leave the public system and leave therefore needing service in the public system short."

CKNW

[Wilber]

This is nonsense.

Did he pay money? -- No.

Is the institute for profit? -- No

Was his service covered 100% by OHIP? -- Yes

Seriously, this is a stretch. Just a pathetic attempt at mud slinging, likely meant to divert attention from the Conservative border runners.

I don't think you will find Conservatives have a problem with Layton using a private clinic for publicly funded care. That's an NDP hangup.

[Kiraly]

I have no problem with it at all.

I never did quite understand the NDP's rigid objection to even a little bit of privately delivered publicly financed health care. The fact that Layton used one in the past, could finally ignite some serious debate on the issue.

[newbie]

The question remains did he know it was private. This was a number of years ago, and I'd give him the benefit of doubt.

[Kiraly]

The question remains did he know it was private. This was a number of years ago, and I'd give him the benefit of doubt.

Only he knows, although I'm sure many will speculate.

In my opinion, this will cause no real damage to his campaign. You could say that the fact he got some prime time on the news actually benefits him.

[August1991]

The question remains did he know it was private. This was a number of years ago, and I'd give him the benefit of doubt.

Only he knows, although I'm sure many will speculate.

In my opinion, this will cause no real damage to his campaign. You could say that the fact he got some prime time on the news actually benefits him.

It is apparently a well-known clinic outside of Toronto. It is hard to believe that Layton didn't know it was private. In fact, this just points out the arbitrary silliness of making a distinction between state-managed and privately managed facilities.

Incidentally, to my knowledge, the Shouldice web site makes no mention of its non-profit status. (The term "non-profit" has always struck me as misleading and simplistic.)

I agree that this will be a blip in the campaign.

[fellowtraveller]

I never did quite understand the NDP's rigid objection to even a little bit of privately delivered publicly financed health care

Isn't that the very foundation of the system in Canada, outside of public hospitals?

Every single doctor I've ever known was a private, self-employed deliverer of health care- paid from the public purse.

Is that what Layton wants to end?? Does he wish to make all doctors publicly employed and publicly paid?

[Boru]

That's right.

Where parties draw seperate lines at different places is when you talk about doctor's selling their services directly to the public.

Needless to say, some can afford this,and some can't.

It would cut waiting lists, times, increase the quality of public health care by making it more affordable to the government...

Second class citizens would get second class health care...

All sorts of propaganda swirls around this.

[August1991]

I heard Shirley Douglas on CBC this morning state that in fact is Shouldice is a "for profit" clinic but in her words, "it's not a big profit, only 3%".

Then, there's this in the G & M quoting Layton:

He said the Shouldice clinic isn't an example of the so-called Americanized health care that he wants to stop -- the kind that he says wants to "squeeze profit out of" Canada's health-care system. "It was there for veterans even before medicare was established."

So, is Layton against private clinics only if they're American. And why was Layton so insistent stating before that the clinic was "not for profit"?

----

This event points to what is so wrong and contradictory with the NDP and Canada's Left. The US is big, bad and rapacious whereas Canada is small, friendly and generous.

A private clinic in Canada offers a specialized operation to people from all over the world and turns a profit in doing so. If the patients are Canadian, their provincial government health insurance scheme picks up the tab. What's wrong with that? And if the clinic happens to have some American owners, what's wrong with that?

From all accounts, the Shouldice Clinic is well run and offers excellent service. Maybe the fact that it pays attention to the bottom line and ensures revenues exceeds costs is part of the secret of its success.

[tml12]

It seems like only Stephen Harper has NEVER used public care.

Stephen Harper only uses private health care?

Anyway, it sounds from the article like Layton was unaware that the clinic was not a public facility; he just went where his doctor referred him. Any implied endorsement of private health care seems to be unintentional.

Thanks Melanie!!!

Thats all fixed...

[Guest eureka]

Of all the pitiful slime oozing around the forums, this has to be the deepest flow. There is nothing at all that is wrong with using a facility that is covered by public healthcare and this does not, in any way, contradict NDP policy.

The Shouldice clinic has been around for a very long time performing this supplementary service.

Good to see you being objective about this, August.

[politika]

http://www.canada.com/national/features/de...c2-24e0381ba5cd

It seems like only Stephen Harper has NEVER used private care.

At this rate, the only way the public system will survive is to elect a majority Conservative government...

Yep the liberals also use private healthcare

[JerrySeinfeld]

This is nonsense.

Did he pay money? -- No.

Is the institute for profit? -- No

Was his service covered 100% by OHIP? -- Yes

Seriously, this is a stretch. Just a pathetic attempt at mud slinging, likely meant to divert attention from the Conservative border runners.

You guys, both conservative and lefties are ALL missing the real story here:

If Layton DIDN'T know it was a private clinic, that even makes the argument for a PURELY public system even more ridiculous. If the country's self appointed champion of PURE public care isn't even AWARE that he used a private clinic, then why campaign so vigorously against private clinics at all? What's wrong with private clinics? Again I read backyour own words:

"Did he pay money? -- No.

Is the institute for profit? -- No

Was his service covered 100% by OHIP? -- Yes"

So what exactly, Jack Layton or any other lefty, is the issue with private clinics?