Rovik Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 BC Conservative candidate Derek Zeisman (running in the British Columbia Southern Interior riding) has been charged with smuggling but kept this secret, even to his own party. Click the link to the CTV for details. Link And it seems that Harper is standing by him. I wonder what Conservative supporters, who were quick to pounce on Layton's handling of Svend Robinson, have to say about this??? Anyhow, it looks like a NDP pickup here as they were running neck and neck with the Conservatives (in the riding) before this news broke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverwind Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 And it seems that Harper is standing by him. I wonder what Conservative supporters, who were quick to pounce on Layton's handling of Svend Robinson, have to say about this???The man is innocent until proven guilty, however, he should not be running for office while these charges are pending. What would happen if he is elected and then found guility? Is he legally required to resign? If not then Harper should disown the guy ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Someone dropped the ball. There is a slight difference however. This guy hasn't been tried and convicted yet. Sven had when Layton brought him back. This will be an interesting riding to watch if he doesn't pull out. What happens if he wins (probably not likely now) and then gets convicted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovik Posted January 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 The man is innocent until proven guilty, however, he should not be running for office while these charges are pending. What would happen if he is elected and then found guility? Is he legally required to resign? If not then Harper should disown the guy ASAP. You're right, a person is innocent until proven guilty but what would make me mad (if I was Harper) was the fact that this guy hide the information from everyone, knowing full well the chaos it would create if the guy did win and was found guilty. Harper, by doing nothing, could be seen as condoning the candidate's actions and it may lose him many votes because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovik Posted January 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Someone dropped the ball. There is a slight difference however. This guy hasn't been tried and convicted yet. Sven had when Layton brought him back. This will be an interesting riding to watch if he doesn't pull out. What happens if he wins (probably not likely now) and then gets convicted? The difference is this; Robinson paid for his crime as by the court's orders and hasn't be trying to hide that fact. This guy has been hiding this info and by that alone seems very suspicious. The Conservatives won't be pulling him out going by what the article sasy. Quote from CTV article, "The Conservatives say despite just finding out about the charges, they will stand by their man and won't pull him out of the race." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverwind Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Harper, by doing nothing, could be seen as condoning the candidate's actions and it may lose him many votes because of it.This will be the first test of Harper's resolve when it comes to cleaning up government. He may not have a lot of options because it is too late to run another candidate. I hope he will handle it well. I think this is a reasonable response: But Mr. Reynolds insisted it should be up to the electorate, not his own party, to judge Mr. Zeisman.“He's a nominated candidate for the next election, and he's on the ballot. And his constituents will make up their mind whether they think this is a serious issue.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribblet Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Harper, by doing nothing, could be seen as condoning the candidate's actions and it may lose him many votes because of it.This will be the first test of Harper's resolve when it comes to cleaning up government. He may not have a lot of options because it is too late to run another candidate. I hope he will handle it well. I think this is a reasonable response: But Mr. Reynolds insisted it should be up to the electorate, not his own party, to judge Mr. Zeisman.“He's a nominated candidate for the next election, and he's on the ballot. And his constituents will make up their mind whether they think this is a serious issue.” The guy should step down, even if he is innocent until proven guilty, it would be the honourable thing to do for the party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Honest Politician Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Nice to see that the Conservatives, who call for the dismissal of any Liberal that faces an allegation, are standing behind their guy who is charged with smuggling "a Mercedes-Benz vehicle and 112 containers of alcohol." My favorite quote in the story has got to be : "I have no doubt about that whatsoever, but you know, again, I hope we still live in a democratic country where people are allowed to have their day in court before they're found guilty in the court of public opinion." You just have to love how when it is a conservative "people are allowed to have their day in court before they're found guilty", but even with exhonoration of Martin by Justice Gomery, he has stilll been tarred and feathered with the no regard to the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimera Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 The guy should step down, even if he is innocent until proven guilty, it would be the honourable thing to do for the party. Honourable?? Since when do honour and politics mix? I definitely agree with you though. Any public official should step aside when they are the subject of a criminal investigation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 UPDATE: Harper's Campaign Harper explained that, legally, it is too late now to pull him out of the campaign. But he said if this candidate wins, he will not sit as a Conservative until the matter is resolved. Like all Conservative supporters, I guess we all waited with bated breaths to see how Harper will handle this. Well guys, our lad did it with flying colors! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Circle Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Nice to see that the Conservatives, who call for the dismissal of any Liberal that faces an allegation, are standing behind their guy who is charged with smuggling "a Mercedes-Benz vehicle and 112 containers of alcohol."My favorite quote in the story has got to be : "I have no doubt about that whatsoever, but you know, again, I hope we still live in a democratic country where people are allowed to have their day in court before they're found guilty in the court of public opinion." You just have to love how when it is a conservative "people are allowed to have their day in court before they're found guilty", but even with exhonoration of Martin by Justice Gomery, he has stilll been tarred and feathered with the no regard to the facts. If this candidate nominated the judge presiding over the case, then maybe he could be more confident like Martin was, by appointing Gomery. Idiot Politician, drop the bs about Martin being exhonorated, we all know Martin could never be found anything BUT innocent. If someone else had have done the investigation, he'd have been found guilty!! I get so tired of hearing this same line of BS from sad-sack Liberals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml12 Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 The guy should step down, even if he is innocent until proven guilty, it would be the honourable thing to do for the party. Honourable?? Since when do honour and politics mix? I definitely agree with you though. Any public official should step aside when they are the subject of a criminal investigation. I can't find fault with that guys... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 The guy should step down, even if he is innocent until proven guilty, it would be the honourable thing to do for the party. Honourable?? Since when do honour and politics mix? I definitely agree with you though. Any public official should step aside when they are the subject of a criminal investigation. I can't find fault with that guys... Yes he should. I just forgot how Harper worded it....but since it is illegal for Harper to pull him out of the race at this time....he made it obvious that the guy should offer to step aside voluntarily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 The guy should step down, even if he is innocent until proven guilty, it would be the honourable thing to do for the party. Honourable?? Since when do honour and politics mix? I definitely agree with you though. Any public official should step aside when they are the subject of a criminal investigation. I can't find fault with that guys... Yes he should. I just forgot how Harper worded it....but since it is illegal for Harper to pull him out of the race at this time....he made it obvious that the guy should offer to step aside voluntarily. I won't be surprised at all if they reason or pressure this guy to step aside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml12 Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Here's The Answer... http://www.canada.com/national/features/de...93-b256d7834f67 I agree with the decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Honest Politician Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Nice to see that the Conservatives, who call for the dismissal of any Liberal that faces an allegation, are standing behind their guy who is charged with smuggling "a Mercedes-Benz vehicle and 112 containers of alcohol." My favorite quote in the story has got to be : "I have no doubt about that whatsoever, but you know, again, I hope we still live in a democratic country where people are allowed to have their day in court before they're found guilty in the court of public opinion." You just have to love how when it is a conservative "people are allowed to have their day in court before they're found guilty", but even with exhonoration of Martin by Justice Gomery, he has stilll been tarred and feathered with the no regard to the facts. If this candidate nominated the judge presiding over the case, then maybe he could be more confident like Martin was, by appointing Gomery. Idiot Politician, drop the bs about Martin being exhonorated, we all know Martin could never be found anything BUT innocent. If someone else had have done the investigation, he'd have been found guilty!! I get so tired of hearing this same line of BS from sad-sack Liberals. Look Leaky Crackhead, this guy is going on trial for smuggling a car and a bunch of booze. That is far beyond an investigation. Especially an investigation that cleared you. So you are claiming Justice Gomery is a fraud? Well let's all get the RCMP in here to investigate. That is a crock. Just another baseless accusation. Lay off the pipe man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leafless Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Rovik You wrote- " And it seems Harper is standing by him" News reports have it Harper is not standing by him. Harper cannot legally make him step down. It is to late to replace him. Harper has asked him to step down voluntarily and the choice is his. If he wins Harper will not allow him to sit as an MP until his legal mess is cleared up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoop Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Sorry it took a few more hours than you would have liked but Harper has done the right thing. Zeisman won't be sitting as a CPC member *IF* he wins. Guy seems a little strange. Gets into the Trade Commissioner Service at a pretty young age yet quits to be a constituency assistant? Probably would have ended up in parliament if he hadn't been smuggling copious amounts of booze. Nice to see that the Conservatives, who call for the dismissal of any Liberal that faces an allegation, are standing behind their guy who is charged with smuggling "a Mercedes-Benz vehicle and 112 containers of alcohol." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovik Posted January 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Rovik You wrote- " And it seems Harper is standing by him" News reports have it Harper is not standing by him. Harper cannot legally make him step down. It is to late to replace him. Harper has asked him to step down voluntarily and the choice is his. If he wins Harper will not allow him to sit as an MP until his legal mess is cleared up. Going by the initial media story, the Conservatives did say they were standing by him, looks like they have changed their minds, they flip-flopped on their original stand on the candidate. Basically, Harper knew he had no other option but to flip-flop, for he knew that if they didn't, many people would question them on ethnics just as the Conservatives questioned the ethnics of the Liberals (which I agree is questionable and shakey at best.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck E Stan Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Harper has given him the boot. Harper dumps B.C. candidate facing charges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoop Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Maybe you could try and use flip-flop a little more often. I am guessing you meant people would question the CPC on ethics. Decisions aren't made instantly. It was a matter of hours for this decision to be made. That is fast enough for most Canadians. The decision was the right one to make. Better an incoming-PM who takes a little time before making considered decisions rather than an outgoing-PM who proposes a serious change to our constitution on the fly during a debate. Going by the initial media story, the Conservatives did say they were standing by him, looks like they have changed their minds, they flip-flopped on their original stand on the candidate.Basically, Harper knew he had no other option but to flip-flop, for he knew that if they didn't, many people would question them on ethnics just as the Conservatives the ethnics of the Liberals (which I agree is questionable and shakey at best.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovik Posted January 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 I am guessing you meant people would question the CPC on ethics. Thanks for pointing out the typo I had made. Wouldn't want people to think I was taking about ethnics when I really meant ethics...good thing I'm not a candidate, just imagine the scandal that typo might have produced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoop Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Are you flip-flopping on your attack on ethnics and trying to make it look like you were attacking ethics? Thanks for pointing out the typo I had made. Wouldn't want people to think I was taking about ethnics when I really meant ethics...good thing I'm not a candidate, just imagine the scandal that typo might have produced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovik Posted January 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Are you flip-flopping on your attack on ethnics and trying to make it look like you were attacking ethics? Thanks for pointing out the typo I had made. Wouldn't want people to think I was taking about ethnics when I really meant ethics...good thing I'm not a candidate, just imagine the scandal that typo might have produced Not a flip-flop, a simple typo. Are you saying "The Conservatives say despite just finding out about the charges, they will stand by their man and won't pull him out of the race." (-quote from CTV news story) was a typo as well????? If it was, it was quite the typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoop Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Hmmm, a line without quote is your evidence of a flip flop? I am saying you are misusing the term. No body from the party was quoted with the line from the story. It took them a few hours to make a decision. Who exactly flip flopped? You would have to come up with the person who *supposedly* made the original statement. Not a flip-flop, a simple typo. Are you saying "The Conservatives say despite just finding out about the charges, they will stand by their man and won't pull him out of the race." (-quote from CTV news story) was a typo as well????? If it was, it was quite the typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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