Quebec so far this week: • Synagogue firebombed • Imam says Jews should be exterminated • Pro-Palestinian screams "kike" at Jewish student • Professor calls Jewish student "a whore," says go back to Poland • Two Jewish schools hit with gunfire.

[CdnFox]

And another jewish school shot up by the peaceful left in montreal:

https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/justice-et-faits-divers/2023-11-12/montreal/une-ecole-juive-a-nouveau-ciblee-par-des-coups-de-feu.php

 

[Canadian_Cavalier]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

And in fact it is recognized widely that taking away the jew homeland IS a threat to all jews for various reasons

But taking away the homeland of Palestinians isn't a threat to them?

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

And i didn't even get into Isis etc

ISIS only attacked Israel once, and they apologized for it. Wanna source? From the Times of Israel itself!

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

For every racist threat against Jews there is one against Palestinians or Muslims and Arabs in general. "

Which is true. I documented them in my first response to you but you didn't care. Want more? You can have it.

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

In fact - there really IS no threat against muslims or muslim countries (other than other muslims in some cases).   There may be prejudice around the world here or there, especially after all the terrorist attacks like 911, but Nobody is orgnaized to wipe out muslims.

No one is organized to wipe out all Jews either. It's not 1933 anymore. Those islamist organizations want to wipe out everyone who isn't them, not just Jews.

[CdnFox]

49 minutes ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

But taking away the homeland of Palestinians isn't a threat to them?

THe palestinians certainly thought so when the UN did it to them.  So.... sounds like they agree with me and not you,

Quote

ISIS only attacked Israel once, and they apologized for it.

And? How many times do you have to attack a country to prove you dont' think well of them? Do you know how many times Canada has attacked israel? None.  See the difference?

In any case they frequently target jews and it's central to their policy to do so.  Want a source?

https://www.mdpi.com/2077-1444/10/8/483

So - you were wrong again : 

Quote

No one is organized to wipe out all Jews either.

"From the river to the sea".

Sorry kiddo - you're wrong and everyone other than you knows it.

 

And i see you still coudn't come up with even ONE example. So now we know you're a liar on top of it all.

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

But taking away the homeland of Palestinians isn't a threat to them?

What happened in Pakistan in 1947 was 10,000x worse than what happened to the Palestinians in 1948. 

There's no reason for this hatred against Israel to exist today. Not a single person who cries tears of rage about the Palestinians cares what happened to the Sikhs and Hindus of Pakistan. It's ALL about islamic religious bigotry. They're literally willing to have thousands of their women and children die just so that the Jews don't own any land in the ME. 

If you think that this has anything to do with anything aside from islamic religious bigotry, you're a stooge. 

[Canadian_Cavalier]

On 11/13/2023 at 8:14 PM, CdnFox said:

THe palestinians certainly thought so when the UN did it to them.  So.... sounds like they agree with me and not you,

Palestine is not represented in the UN.

On 11/13/2023 at 8:14 PM, CdnFox said:

And? How many times do you have to attack a country to prove you dont' think well of them? Do you know how many times Canada has attacked israel?

Canada has never attacked Israel because the Canadian government is utterly dominated by Zionists, no matter the party.

On 11/13/2023 at 8:14 PM, CdnFox said:

From the river to the sea".

Zionists keep crying over this political slogan, overlooking the Likud Party's first platform, opening with "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty."

Did Israel's ruling party call for genocide?

On 11/13/2023 at 9:14 PM, WestCanMan said:

There's no reason for this hatred against Israel to exist today.

You say as the Deputy Speaker of the Knesset voices his desire to cleanse Gaza.

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

Palestine is not represented in the UN.

Neither was Isrreal at the time.

Quote

Canada has never attacked Israel because the Canadian government is utterly dominated by Zionists, no matter the party.

You'd have to be a special kind of stupid to actually believe that.

Quote

Zionists keep crying over this political slogan, overlooking the Likud Party's first platform, opening with "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty."

Nobody forgot anything. But that was 50 years ago and the party has evolved. And it was never a policy of annihilation      while 'from the river to the sea' absolutely is  So there you go. .

Quote

Did Israel's ruling party call for genocide?

Nope.  Hamas and gaza is.

 

Quote

You say as the Deputy Speaker of the Knesset voices his desire to cleanse Gaza.

Sorry sparky - taking a few words out of context doesn't help your cause.

 

This war is 100 percent the doing of Gaza.  Israel has every right to defend itself and that means destroying any structure of military use and any military personnel in Gaza - and if either of those hides behind civvies and they get caught in the cross fire that's just what happens in war. 

which is why SMART people don't start wars. Certainly not wars they can't win.  This is 100 percent on Gaza

[WestCanMan]

15 hours ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

You say as the Deputy Speaker of the Knesset voices his desire to cleanse Gaza.

I'd say that after 70 years of the Palestinians doing absolutely nothing but plot genocide and commit terrorist attacks from there, it's starting to look like leaving Gaza there is an epic failure of an idea. 

[CdnFox]

35 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I'd say that after 70 years of the Palestinians doing absolutely nothing but plot genocide and commit terrorist attacks from there, it's starting to look like leaving Gaza there is an epic failure of an idea. 

As  i've said elsewhere, at this point all we can conclude is that either the gazans and other palestinians come to a point where they lay down their arms and accept israel as a legit nation that isn't going anywhere -  or they all die or go somewhere else. There is no peace any other way.  And it's not looking great that they're going to accept israel.

[Canadian_Cavalier]

8 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

I'd say that after 70 years of the Palestinians doing absolutely nothing but plot genocide and commit terrorist attacks from there, it's starting to look like leaving Gaza there is an epic failure of an idea. 

You're literally plotting genocide while decrying Palestinians for supposedly doing the same thing. If someone said "leaving Israel there is an epic failure of an idea" you'd interpret it as a call for another Holocaust.

[CdnFox]

Just now, Canadian_Cavalier said:

You're literally plotting genocide while decrying Palestinians for supposedly doing the same thing. If someone said "leaving Israel there is an epic failure of an idea" you'd interpret it as a call for another Holocaust.

Is it tho?  It's not genocide if removing a population is the only path to peace.  It's ONLY genocide if you target the civvies for the sake of targeting them - if they continue to support and allow endless attacks then there comes a point where you have little choice.

If they won't live in peace - they may have to live elsewhere. If anyone will take them. They NEED to learn what they've done is wrong, and it ends badly for them, and look for only peaceful solutions.

I mean seriously - who the hell at this point after a half dozen unprovoved wars, countless raids and attacks, and the slaugher of thosuands of civvies is going to blame israel for not trusting these guys and keeping them under their thumb if they won't behave?

[WestCanMan]

20 hours ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

You're literally plotting genocide while decrying Palestinians for supposedly doing the same thing. If someone said "leaving Israel there is an epic failure of an idea" you'd interpret it as a call for another Holocaust.

No, I'm not talking about genocide. I don't think the Gazans should be killed.

I'm asking you to look at the view from 50,000 feet instead of the POV of one side or the other.

What's the POV of the Palestinians/muslims? 

1. Do they have a homeland? Yes.
2. Will they ever make peace from there? No.
3. Why not? Because they're fundamentally stuck in a mental state where they cannot tolerate the Jews having a sovereign nation in the Holy Land.

What is the view of the Israelis:

1. Do they have a homeland? Yes
2. Will they ever make peace from there? Yes - that's all they've ever asked for is peace, but they've been attacked since day 1.
3. Why were they attacked? Because 

• 3.A Islamic nations don't accept the formation of Israel as legitimate. The muslims of that region outnumbered the Jews of that region by a wide margin in 1900, and they - as the majority - didn't want Jews mass-immigrating to that region. Now, it's fair to say that muslims didn't really want to go to that region, because they didn't go there when they easily could have. It's also fair to say that Jews really did want to go there, because they did go there, and they overcame harsh obstacles to do it, in large numbers. So then you say: "did Palestinians really need to let other people come there?" No, but the people coming there had better reason to go there than the Palestinians did for blocking them out... The Jews were going there partly because they were suffering persecution and the occasional mass murders at the hands of the Palestinians' fellow muslims in the ME (as well as from Christians in Europe). Muslims didn't need to move because they weren't experiencing genocides or persecution in the ME - they controlled almost every square inch of it for 1,000 years. Also, "Israel" isn't the cradle of their religion, Mecca is. And then Jerusalem, Temple Mount, etc. Muslims around the ME were happy to stay where they were, and the Jews were not happy living as 2nd- to 4th-class citizens and occasionally being mass murdered in Europe and the ME. 
• 3.B Islamic nations reacted as you'd expect when they saw their fellow muslims being forced out of their homes, and in some instances killed (on an infinitesimal scale compared to what happened when Pakistan was partitioned just a year earlier). It caused a regression towards religious zealotry, which is what we're witnessing today.
• 3.C Now, regardless of what you hear from anyone anywhere in the world, their actual reason for hatred of Israel is either religious bigotry or a combination of ignorance and naiveté. There is not one single other reason. Just remember: people in the ME and Europe were becoming less religious and more civilized throughout the past few centuries, and the more decent Muslim-ish and Christian-ish alike were shrugging off old-world ideas like slavery and religious bigotry. The idea of a Jewish homeland wasn't anathema to a broad swath of people of every religious and political stripe, including muslims. The UN was the governing body that agreed on the formation of Israel, just like they did on the formation of Pakistan, and whether it was right or not to create those countries, MUSLIMS HAVE WHOLEHEARTEDLY ACCEPTED THE EXISTENCE OF PAKISTAN DESPITE THEIR TWO GENOCIDES IN THE MILLIONS, so... for that reason I postulate that the violence that occurred in Israel 70 years ago is absolutely not the reason for the muslim world going against them today. If 1940s violence was the determining factor behind islamic hatred of Israel then they would have nuked Pakistan by now - Pakistan was much worse than Israel by several orders of magnitude. Humanitarianism/altruism has absolutely nothing at all to do with the desire to commit genocide against Israel.

I've been looking at both sides of this debate for 40 years. I've been on both sides of it. I was pro-Israeli as a kid because that's how I was raised, but as a young adult I saw a lot of things that made me wonder. 

• Jewish terrorists like the Stern Gang & Likud. Menachim Begin. 
• The massacre at Deir Yassin
• Reprisals of a larger magnitude than the attacks that they suffered.

Eg., I saw the US Sec of State, James Baker, go to a funeral in Israel, wearing a kippa, for 4 girls that were killed by Palestinian terrorists. The attack/funeral was front page news here for about 4 days. Then the Israelis went on a counter-terrorism operation and the fact that they killed 37 Palestinians was tucked away in a back corner of the paper a few days later. If you do the death math, 37 is way bigger than 4, right?

So yeah, at one point in my life I identified as pro-Palestinian/anti-Israei.

So why the differing level of concern for the 4 vs 37 now? I attribute it to the fact that the vast majority of those 37 people were almost all murderers/murderer wannabes/murder supporters, etc, and the 4 people were just students, trying to live a normal, peaceful life, without an expressed desire to commit genocide. Rooting out the terrorists was the only thing that made any sense. 

Each side always claims to be the one retaliating. They both constantly cite their own date at some point in the past an they don't want to consider anything else, so who do you believe?

It's true that both sides have blood on their hands. Both are willing to kill again. One group just wants to have a homeland where their people are safe, the other group wants to eradicate their neighbour from the map. 

Just remember this:

BOTH SIDES AGREE ON ONE THING:

The Hamas motto is "We love killing Jews more than they love life",

the Jews say "We can't have peace until they start to love their own children as much as they love killing us."

When they both agree on that one thing, is it possible that they are both wrong?

So, once you get to the point where you realize that the existence of Gaza and Israel as neighbours is always going to be the cause of mass murders, and that Israel is the one that has always made peace offerings and given up land and defensibility to achieve it, what do you do? Whose side do you take?

Unless you believe that Israel's intention from the very, very beginning was to arrive at this place where the existence of Gaza as a self-policed group was no longer a possibility, then it's really hard to believe that you should take the side of the people who have shown for decades that their only goal is genocide. And FYI they don't even just want to remove Israelis from that region and scatter them, they openly state that their goal is the eradication of the Jews worldwide. That's the guys that you're siding with here. 

You might think that's justified, cute, acceptable, awesome, or whatever, but history has proven time and time again that when people say that they want to kill you, they really mean it. 

I'm not on the side of eradicating millions of people. I choose a kinder, gentler conclusion to this.

So, what would you really to say in defence of the people who have openly stated their desire to murder millions of people, just on the basis of their religion? Take your time. Try to make an honest effort. I will listen. 

Edited November 19, 2023 by WestCanMan