Canadian professor attended Putin's conference in Russia

[myata]

Should one attend public events in Nazi Germany, "in the interests of science"? Professor of Manitoba university thinks, sure.

Putin, a totalitarian dictator trying to fill the shoes of Hitler, perpetrates a brutal war of aggression in Europe and needs any signs that the resistance to his policies in the Western world is wavering. He paid all expenses for the couple to participate in his pet "event". In plain words, Putin, a charged war criminal, paid these folks to give him a show of support.

The forum was sanctioned by Ottawa in September for "generating and disseminating disinformation and propaganda."

"It is basically a Putin-curated, Kremlin-curated propaganda-fest," said Marcus Kolga, founder and director of DisinfoWatch and a senior fellow at both the Macdonald-Laurier and CDA institutes.

"They tried to intimidate me," she said. "They ... implied that I should be ashamed of myself. And I said, 'I'm not ashamed.'" (Prof Desai)

She says it's a privilege for an academic "to meet such people, to be able to converse with them, to understand what was happening in such key moments." 

Meeting and conversing with modern Hitler and his entourage, "a privilege"?

How can individuals with this level of moral judgement and responsibility lead students in Canada?

And how can and will it reflect on the school and Canadian academic community as a whole?

While there are worrying signs that academic freedom is suppressed on the country's campuses we can observe grotesque examples like this in plain sight.

Edited October 15, 2023 by myata

[Zeitgeist]

I can’t agree with you here.  While I think Putin is a de facto dictator and manipulates media, I also think that our major western media outlets leave out important historical information that explains, at least in part, Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

It’s interesting because the CBC and CityPulse are coming across as somewhat sympathetic to Hamas, whose barbaric surprise attack on civilians is quickly contextualized by our leftist media and federal government’s narratives about Israel’s “colonial occupation” of “Palestinian territory”.

Media and university activists can’t wait to pounce on reasonable people who don’t agree with gender ideology and use “dead names”, yet they overlook the physical carnage caused by terrorists.

I say all this while also worrying about Palestinian families and the ways they have been used and abused by Hamas.  I worry that innocent people will be collateral damage in Israel’s attempt to destroy Hamas.

We should be careful about finding moral equivalence where it doesn’t exist.  Putin may be a sketchy person who has done bad things for political power, but he isn’t Hitler.

Innocent people will be killed as Israel invades Gaza. However, Israel isn’t the moral equivalent of Hamas.  If it was up to Hamas, all Jews would be removed from Israel or murdered.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[myata]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

 Putin may be a sketchy person who has done bad things for political power, but he isn’t Hitler.

Then you can explain it rationally, and maybe we could agree. You only have to explain, rationally and factually how Putin is not Hitler, and what makes them essentially different?

Barging into the neighbor's home arms blasting, kicking, kidnapping, raping and killing is called "sketchy", is that right? Being charged with multiple war crimes just sketchy?

It can be that Hamas has something to do with it but you haven't explained it and it's far from obvious.

By the way, Putin's Russia kidnapped thousands of people, including children from Ukraine, and killed tens of thousands in a brutal entirely unprovoked invasion. You fail to see similarities here? Why and how, can you explain?

[myata]

OK, let's look at it rationally and objectively:

Hitler invaded neighbor countries, killed, tortured and kidnapped thousands.

Putin invaded neighbor countries, killed, tortured and kidnapped thousands.

Hamas invaded a neighbor country, killed hundreds and kidnapped scores.

Where is the difference, in your objective view? Why Putin is not Hitler today, and why Hamas isn't fallowing, very obviously, their, Hitler and Putin's, blueprint?

Jack has sketchy shoes and James invaded home and killed his neighbors, whole family, sketchily. Same word. No problems with terminology? Oh and does that make Hamas "sketchy" too? And what about Hitler? He'll want to argue that he didn't do much different why single him out? What would be the essential difference, rationally and objectively? Is there?

Edited October 15, 2023 by myata

[Zeitgeist]

Crimea used to be part of Russia and was home of the Soviet Black Sea naval fleet.  The Dombass is mostly Russian speaking and was once part of Russia.

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, Secretary of State James Baker assured Russia that NATO wouldn’t move an inch east, but of course they moved thousands of kilometres east throughout the Baltics, Poland, Hungary, Turkey, etc.  Ukraine was a bridge too far for Russia, which considers Ukraine within its direct sphere of influence much as the US considers Canada in its sphere of influence.

Western powers undermined and removed the democratically elected Ukraine government of 2014 because of its Russia sympathies.

The Ukraine has verified Neo-Nazi militias in its military ranks.  When Putin talks about de-Nazifying Ukraine, he’s not wrong in his identification of Nazi elements.

A deal was agreed upon by Ukraine and Russia to settle the conflict politically until the State Department under Biden and NATO dispatched PM Boris Johnson to scuttle these plans.

While any loss of innocent life is tragic, the Ukraine situation isn’t as cut and try as you make it sound, though in general terms, yes, Russia invaded a sovereign country, much as the US invaded or infiltrated countries during the Cold War and in the first Golf War and aftermath of 9/11 in both Afghanistan and Iraq.

These are all different places with unique contexts, but don’t pretend that our Western hands are always clean.

Hamas are clearly a terrorist organization who conducted a large terrorist attack on Israeli civilians. There was no declaration of war. Israel has a right to defend itself and destroy Hamas   That doesn’t change the fact that Palestinians in Gaza will need humanitarian aid and assistance to forge a better future in their territory, but not under the control of a terrorist organization that seeks to destroy Israel and remove all Jews from Israeli territories.

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[Guest]

1 hour ago, myata said:

Where is the difference

The why the invasions occurred. Major difference in each one. You're looking at it emotionally. Look at it from a logical standpoint. 

A better comparison, would be China and Taiwan.

Why is it that China feels Taiwan is part of their country? Just because they feel like it, or is there a history to this?

Am not saying it condones anything, but at least allows you to see why China will firmly punish the US for simply sending a diplomat to Taiwan.

Is it a tantrum, or is the US being insanely disrespectful to China's sovereignty. This will all depend on the lens you look at this issue with.

5 hours ago, myata said:

Should one attend public events in Nazi Germany, "in the interests of science"? Professor of Manitoba university thinks, sure.

I don't see what is wrong in attending something like this, to better understand it, outside of the biased media lenses that tell you how to morally feel on the issue.

5 hours ago, myata said:

Meeting and conversing with modern Hitler and his entourage, "a privilege"?

I would love to sit and converse with Putin, and hear his side of the story. Just like I would love to sit across the table with Osama Bin Laden, if he were alive.

This doesn't make one morally repugnant. If I could safely talk to either, my curiosity would take over. 

I would love to ask them questions, and *gasp* let them speak. I could do my own research for checking their accuracy.

Just because one say, talks to the leader of Hamas, doesn't mean they want Israelis killed. 

If one wants to understand the situation, wouldn't it be best to hear from both Putin as you would the west?

Its too late now, but I have always wanted to visit North Korea.

Sorry, but curious minds don't equate morally repugnant ones.

[myata]

So you chose to repeat Putin's (Hitler's 100%) propaganda points? And no other ideas? Since when "something belonged to someone some time ago" or "some part of population speaks something" is a valid excuse for an aggressive war? Let's understand it for clarity, before going any further: do you agree with Hitler's and Putin's excuses for their war? International law, independence, security doesn't mean anything, from now on? Anyone can invade and attack anybody for pretty much any pretext like look he speaks another language gotcha?

Only one question then: that makes you think like who? Like responsible citizen in a modern democracy? Or like Putin and Hamas?

36 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

These are all different places with unique contexts,

So we were talking about essential differences and here's what you came up with. OK. And Hitler's context was unique too, in your private reality? Why Hitlers context couldn't be "unique" while every other murderous thug can claim it, in your private model of law and morality?

So, no general principles exist in it, any longer? Jack is a criminal and James, "sketchy" because so you say? Congrats. That's a natural result of turning off own brain and parroting dumb, not even close to smart or plausible, lies.

37 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Western powers undermined and removed

No that's just dumb. I said before I cannot have no discussions with the folk who create their own private realities. It sure within their right, but no rational conversation is possible in such cases. It would be a waste of everybody's time. But at least the condition can be verified objectively now.

[myata]

5 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

The why the invasions occurred.

You mean like one psycho saw blue light and another red, that triggered their murderous spree? That would be the difference in the psychos minds, and we were talking about the reality. Don't see the difference?

5 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

This doesn't make one morally repugnant. If I could safely talk to either, my curiosity would take over. 

Just to clarify, you would do that while the former is planning attacks on his neighbors and the other, September 11? Only out of curiosity? And nothing unusual about that?

Edited October 15, 2023 by myata

[myata]

I want nothing to do with "conservatives" in whose world murderous thugs can be anathema or "genius", "very smart" or "very honorable" depending on the day of the week or the latest lecture of their Lying Idol. Call it animal farm, left or right wing, but its a sick and dark world of the deep past.

If you cannot explain it rationally it means something. Your brain is trying to tell something to you. You can turn it off sure, but as history shows very clearly, it's never good for you.

[myata]

A psycho in the heat of a murderous spree, bombing hospitals shooting civilians, families, children. OK have to talk to him now - really curious.

We learn something new here every day. How could one know?

Edited October 15, 2023 by myata

[Zeitgeist]

33 minutes ago, myata said:

So you chose to repeat Putin's (Hitler's 100%) propaganda points? And no other ideas? Since when "something belonged to someone some time ago" or "some part of population speaks something" is a valid excuse for an aggressive war? Let's understand it for clarity, before going any further: do you agree with Hitler's and Putin's excuses for their war? International law, independence, security doesn't mean anything, from now on? Anyone can invade and attack anybody for pretty much any pretext like look he speaks another language gotcha?

Only one question then: that makes you think like who? Like responsible citizen in a modern democracy? Or like Putin and Hamas?

So we were talking about essential differences and here's what you came up with. OK. And Hitler's context was unique too, in your private reality? Why Hitlers context couldn't be "unique" while every other murderous thug can claim it, in your private model of law and morality?

So, no general principles exist in it, any longer? Jack is a criminal and James, "sketchy" because so you say? Congrats. That's a natural result of turning off own brain and parroting dumb, not even close to smart or plausible, lies.

No that's just dumb. I said before I cannot have no discussions with the folk who create their own private realities. It sure within their right, but no rational conversation is possible in such cases. It would be a waste of everybody's time. But at least the condition can be verified objectively now.

I’m guessing your background is Chinese and you were disgusted by China’s totalitarianism and came to Canada?   Look, Russia is barely a democracy and I’m against Purim’s invasion, but I don’t think he’s doing it because he’s a bloodthirsty Hitter.  Characterizing the invasion that way detracts from our ability to discern why this is happening and finding a lasting solution.  If China launched a coup against our government and facilitated a military alliance with Canada, I’m not sure the US wouldn’t invade Canada, though they’d probably be welcomed.

[Canadian_Cavalier]

She has a statue of Marx in her office. Disgusting.

[myata]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Look, Russia is barely a democracy and I’m against Purim’s invasion, but I don’t think he’s doing it because he’s a bloodthirsty Hitter.

It was Hamas before now China and still I see no connection. Let's make it even simpler: is wrong to break into a house, beat, rape and kill the residents? Should it be stopped, bloody and murderous attack or invited to continue (and spread? guess)?

Or it depends on the reason in the head of the attacker, day of the week and whatever you think/say?

It's a simple question really. What is your problem?

Edited October 15, 2023 by myata

[Guest]

2 hours ago, myata said:

while the former is planning attacks on his neighbors and

Stop playing politics. Its weak, and doesn't strengthen your point. You're simply playing on histrionics, while putting words in my mouth while painting a moral code that wasn't conveyed in the point I made. 

Its lazy, its disingenuous, and doesn't respect the rules of engagement. We are debating a point. Stick to it, or accept you don't come here to debate.

I am speaking in hypothetical here. I would meet with him, but clearly what he has done, and the fact he is dead, would make it impossible.

I would want to know the motive for what he did. I would gladly interview him without interjection, and would let his own sick mind speak for itself.

Anyone with half a brain would see his lunacy, intelligence, and lack of care for those whom he sees as infidels. I don't need to assume most don't have common sense.

Wanting to talk to someone, doesn't equate support in any way shape or form.

Same goes for meeting Putin.

You're assuming its showcasing support. 

If he invited me over to talk, I would gladly do so. Again. I would keep my judgements out of the picture, and let his words speak for themselves.

War is all propaganda, by the way.

You after all have to sell it to people.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, myata said:

A psycho in the heat of a murderous spree, bombing hospitals shooting civilians, families, children. OK have to talk to him - really curious.

Your attitude is part of the issue. People refused to talk to him seriously. 

He had tanks surrounding Ukraine. He was virtually dismissed.

People like you would see him as a monster who doesn't deserve to have a voice.

People like me see him as a ruthless and calculated individual, and it is of best interests to avoid miscalculation and miscommunication with them. Thus, keeping open lines, would be ideal.

Talks should have been amplified.

Also, the United States are notorious for claiming one thing, but genuinely seeking regime change in countries becoming a headache to them like Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan.

What makes it crazy that he is pointing to that double standard.

If Russia brokered a deal with Mexico that had a base put at the US's border, you honestly feel the US would just brush it aside? 

[I am Groot]

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Crimea used to be part of Russia and was home of the Soviet Black Sea naval fleet.  The Dombass is mostly Russian speaking and was once part of Russia.

Kind of irrelevant to the current war.

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, Secretary of State James Baker assured Russia that NATO wouldn’t move an inch east, but of course they moved thousands of kilometres east throughout the Baltics, Poland, Hungary, Turkey, etc.  

There is some controversy about what guarantees were made to the Soviets by Baker and others, but the important point is they were made in 1990 to the Soviet Union, and that entity ceased to exist a year later. It was nine years after the collapse of the Soviet Union that Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic joined NATO. Turkey has been a member of NATO since 1952.

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Ukraine was a bridge too far for Russia, which considers Ukraine within its direct sphere of influence much as the US considers Canada in its sphere of influence.

And what right does Russia have to consider an independent, sovereign state to belong in some way to them?  You spoke of an informal agreement with the Soviets. The Ukrainians had a formal agreement with the current Russian state signed by the current Russian president guaranteeing their borders.

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Western powers undermined and removed the democratically elected Ukraine government of 2014 because of its Russia sympathies.

A corrupt man bought and paid for by Russia which rigged the election. In any event, the dispute was over an economic agreement with the EU which the Ukrainian parliament had approved overwhelmingly. There were protests, which the police put down brutally, shooting hundreds of unarmed demonstrators.  The president and parliament then agreed to the government resigning and an interim government being set up with quick elections to follow. But the president fled the next day and called on Russia for help. The parliament than unanimously voted to remove him from office.

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

The Ukraine has verified Neo-Nazi militias in its military ranks.

So does Russia, Lots of them.

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

 When Putin talks about de-Nazifying Ukraine, he’s not wrong in his identification of Nazi elements.

The Ukrainian units you speak of have mostly disappeared now. Do you honestly think a Jewish president would leave them intact for long

 

[I am Groot]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

 Look, Russia is barely a democracy 

Russia is not a democracy of any sort. There haven't been any real elections there in decades.

[WestCanMan]

10 hours ago, myata said:

Should one attend public events in Nazi Germany, "in the interests of science"? Professor of Manitoba university thinks, sure.

Of course. 

What's the worst that's gonna happen? You don't expand the Fuhrer's ego by being the 24,232nd person in attendance there, and you're in no danger of suddenly wanting to gas humans, at the very worst someone sees you there and tells people.

But honestly, as a scientist (psychologist, historian, anthropologist, whatever), trying to study the phenomenon of humans getting whipped up into a genocidal frenzy, you'd be a fool to try and talk about the subject after you missed an opportunity to witness it first hand. 

Quote

Putin, a totalitarian dictator trying to fill the shoes of Hitler, perpetrates a brutal war of aggression in Europe and needs any signs that the resistance to his policies in the Western world is wavering. He paid all expenses for the couple to participate in his pet "event". In plain words, Putin, a charged war criminal, paid these folks to give him a show of support.

Your post is too full of id10tic propaganda and MSM talking points to be taken seriously. 

Quote

The forum was sanctioned by Ottawa in September for "generating and disseminating disinformation and propaganda."

By Ottawa, the world leaders in hypocrisy.

You know that our PM meets with terrorists, right? He met privately with Khadr and some other guy that went to Afghanistan with his wife and kids to be with the Talis or some stupid shit like that, plus he tried to bring a terrorist to dinner with the Indian gov't. 

Our gov't disseminated all kinds of disinformation about the covid shot, called the unvaxed "racists and mosgynists", refused to meet with the Freedom convoy after dissing the Indian gov't for not meeting with their own peaceful protests. 

Oh, and he also said that BLM is an excellent example of a protest that he supports, and BLM supports actual Hamas terrorism.

When Ottawa speaks, I don't hear a thing. If Trudeau goes to hell this afternoon my dinner will be right on time, unless I'm out partying. 

Quote

"It is basically a Putin-curated, Kremlin-curated propaganda-fest," said Marcus Kolga, founder and director of DisinfoWatch and a senior fellow at both the Macdonald-Laurier and CDA institutes.

When any politician gets in front of a mic it's always a propagandafest. Welcome to planet earth.

Quote

"They tried to intimidate me," she said. "They ... implied that I should be ashamed of myself. And I said, 'I'm not ashamed.'" (Prof Desai)

She says it's a privilege for an academic "to meet such people, to be able to converse with them, to understand what was happening in such key moments." 

Good for her. She is intelligent enough to have an advanced degree and she still has a spine. 

Did she say that she suddenly feels like raping and pillaging her way across Europe after watching one speech?

Quote

Meeting and conversing with modern Hitler and his entourage, "a privilege"?

How can individuals with this level of moral judgement and responsibility lead students in Canada?

Knowledge is no weight to carry around, myata. 

Have you never taken clues from watching people "do it wrong"? 

I watch CNN sometimes just to see what the tards are being exposed to - it's the exact same thing.

Quote

And how can and will it reflect on the school and Canadian academic community as a whole?

Profs and journalists should be there to learn from things/report on things. 

I'd love to know what it was like to sit in on an Al Qaeda rally or a Hamas rally or a Nazi party rally or a DNC rally. It's actually important to know how those people think and what motivates them. 

Quote

While there are worrying signs that academic freedom is suppressed on the country's campuses we can observe grotesque examples like this in plain sight.

You're using the word grotesque wrong. 

Grotesque is when they omit key information from a topic and present it to their students as "the whole picture" in order to control how they feel about it.

It's when they shut down proper arguments against their dogma just because they don't want the truth to ruin their talking point. 

It's when they don't even fully understand a topic and then opine about it from their position of authority.

When they fly to Russia to find out what is being said over there and what people believe, that's commendable. It's basically their job. 

Edited October 15, 2023 by WestCanMan

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Russia is not a democracy of any sort. There haven't been any real elections there in decades.

Russians are by majority for Putin.  I agree it’s an unhealthy drive to have a strongman, a Tsar or Lenin.   It’s a different sensibility to ours.  It’s more deferential to authority.  

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, myata said:

is wrong to break into a house, beat, rape and kill the residents? Should it be stopped, bloody and murderous attack or invited to continue (and spread? guess)?

Yes, absolutely, Hamas should be stopped.

I'll modify that now so that it makes sense in Russia's case as well:

Quote

is it wrong to go to war against a country just because they are openly planning to bring a hostile military alliance to your doorstep?

No.

War sucks, but it is quite advisable to do whatever is necessary to prevent a hostile military alliance from coming to your doorstep. 

If Ukraine wasn't a terrible neighbour I don't have any evidence that they would be at war. Do you? 

[myata]

15 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Stop playing politics.

Is robbing criminal - or "sketchy" or "politics"?

Is killing civilians, bombing homes and hospitals for no reason criminal?

Should crimes against humanity be punished or shrugged off?

Should criminal thugs be brought to justice or invited to continue and share their art?

These are simple questions. You are under no duress or obligation, just sharing freely and openly, what you think and who you are. Go on.

15 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

ruthless and calculated individual

Hitler did the same things, all of them, and he was "ruthless and calculated". Go on.

What a bunch of hypocrites, with no notion of reality. Your words mean nothing, they have zero substance just garbage dust and smoke. A bloody brutal criminal, a sworn enemy or "very honorable genius" depending on the time of the day. Is there a better illustration of the Animal Farm and 1984? Guess what you are living it, a real living example: no reality, no truth and no principles. Something to be proud of, isn't it?

Edited October 16, 2023 by myata

[myata]

So, basically we are talking here about excuses, apologies and such for Hitler-like, hitleresque if you have it, actions and behaviors. I thought of trying to describe it here (again), but no, no point, any sane person with at least some memory would know, and otherwise, no point. So far we have:

"It's a privilege for an academic "to meet such people, to be able to converse with them, to understand what was happening" (professor in the OP) Hitler: the privilege is mutual!

"Special events and circumstances" Hitler: can't agree more, enthusiastically

"Ruthless and calculating individual to keep the lines open with" Hitler: if you say so; no disagreement from me

"To do whatever is necessary to prevent a hostile military alliance from coming to your doorstep" Hitler: and I was doing exactly that! Why are you pointing at me?

C'mon people have your say, don't hold it back relieve it all here this is you chance. Just keep it coming. You have to know who you are and I'll help out of obligation to the reality, nothing fun or happy though. Just doing my job.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, myata said:

Should crimes against humanity be punished or shrugged off?

Punished, regardless of who committed them. If the US killed hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis, they deserve the same fate as Russia. There is no moral high ground for this.

War crimes shouldn't ever be brushed aside.

Regime changes, plugging in puppet regimes, should be illegal, if the crime committed doesn't pass the sniff test.

Calling them insurgents, infidels or Nazis is the same difference. Propaganda, to justify the behavior and the war.

Don't play moral code, if you can't lump all parties in the same box.

2 hours ago, myata said:

Something to be proud of, isn't it?

You need to separate emotion from logic. 

Logic, sees Putin as a cold blooded and ruthless dictator. It also shows him being incredibly calculated.

He is no Hitler, basing it on volumes of people killed. Not even close. George Bush would be closer.

He bet heavily on the US' weak leadership. He was correct on his bet, but underestimated the fighting spirit of the Ukrainian people.

 

[I am Groot]

16 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Russians are by majority for Putin.  I agree it’s an unhealthy drive to have a strongman, a Tsar or Lenin.   It’s a different sensibility to ours.  It’s more deferential to authority.  

I recognize that. But democracies require certain elements/abilities not present in Russia. Like, for example, the ability to run in an election against Putin. The last guy who seemed interested in doing that is serving twenty years in prison after surviving an attack by poison. In fact, anyone who dares criticize government policies tends to wind up dead or in prison.

Another thing a democracy requires is some form of media that can inform the people about what is happening. Russia lacks anything like a free media.  

A third thing a democracy requires is free elections. Anyone who thinks Putin's boys and girls wouldn't stuff the ballot boxes is painfully naive.

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

I recognize that. But democracies require certain elements/abilities not present in Russia. Like, for example, the ability to run in an election against Putin. The last guy who seemed interested in doing that is serving twenty years in prison after surviving an attack by poison. In fact, anyone who dares criticize government policies tends to wind up dead or in prison.

Another thing a democracy requires is some form of media that can inform the people about what is happening. Russia lacks anything like a free media.  

A third thing a democracy requires is free elections. Anyone who thinks Putin's boys and girls wouldn't stuff the ballot boxes is painfully naive.

I agree.