Republican Cities Don’t Have Less Crime

[WestCanMan]

On 9/1/2023 at 6:33 PM, Rebound said:

According to an act of Congress… it was an insurrection. An act which passed unanimously by the US Senate. Legally… it was an insurrection. 

It was an almost-entirely peaceful and joyous celebration of democracy.  

[CdnFox]

On 9/1/2023 at 5:33 PM, Rebound said:

According to an act of Congress… it was an insurrection. An act which passed unanimously by the US Senate. Legally… it was an insurrection. 

Which act of congress was that? (genuinely curious, i didn't know they'd voted on that)

[CdnFox]

On 9/1/2023 at 4:00 PM, Hodad said:

As far as I'm aware only one party in recent memory has tried to overthrow the government.

Hopefully it doesn't become a trend, but Republicans show no remorse whatsoever, so who can tell.

To say that the republican party tried to overthrow the go'vt is, of course, beyond childish and makes light of a pretty serious event.

republican members were every bit as much endangered as anyone else. Has ANYONE with even a shred of credibility suggested that the republican party itself planned that event?

SO - it makes me wonder, if you're so convinced that you're correct, why do you feel the need to lie to make your point?

[impartialobserver]

This is somewhat misleading. Most cities are Democrat or LIberal by their very nature. Even if the rest of the state votes Red... the cities/counties that are highly populated are blue.. Look at the maps of Idaho, Nevada, Oregon, Washington, Utah, and New Mexico. The majority of their counties are rural and therefore Conservative. The counties that have their one or two major cities... are blue. 

[BeaverFever]

On 9/3/2023 at 12:46 PM, WestCanMan said:

It was an almost-entirely peaceful and joyous celebration of democracy.  

LMAO,  the levels of absolute delusion you’ve subjected yourself to, it’s astounding.
 

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by BeaverFever

[BeaverFever]

59 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

This is somewhat misleading. Most cities are Democrat or LIberal by their very nature. Even if the rest of the state votes Red... the cities/counties that are highly populated are blue.. Look at the maps of Idaho, Nevada, Oregon, Washington, Utah, and New Mexico. The majority of their counties are rural and therefore Conservative. The counties that have their one or two major cities... are blue. 

Most of the factors that contribute to crime like poverty, economics etc are beyond the control of Municipal governments anyway. The point of the OP is that the political affiliation is irrelevant to crime but as usual republicans have seized upon the opportunity to spread disinformation 

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

LMAO,  the levels of absolute delusion you’ve subjected yourself to, it’s astounding.
 

 

I'm pretty sure that if you go on CNN you'll be able to find that exact footage with the "Almost entirely peaceful and joyous celebration of democracy" caption on it, exactly like this one:

[BeaverFever]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

I'm pretty sure that if you go on CNN you'll be able to find that exact footage with the "Almost entirely peaceful and joyous celebration of democracy" caption on it, exactly like this one:

So you’re trying to outdo them?

[Rebound]

5 hours ago, impartialobserver said:

This is somewhat misleading. Most cities are Democrat or LIberal by their very nature. Even if the rest of the state votes Red... the cities/counties that are highly populated are blue.. Look at the maps of Idaho, Nevada, Oregon, Washington, Utah, and New Mexico. The majority of their counties are rural and therefore Conservative. The counties that have their one or two major cities... are blue. 

Most of the conservative outlying towns and cities put their homeless in police cruisers and drive them into Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, etc. 

[CdnFox]

16 hours ago, Rebound said:

Most of the conservative outlying towns and cities put their homeless in police cruisers and drive them into Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, etc. 

Bullshit.  The homeless get to those places on their own as fast as they can. It is 1000 times better to be homeless in san francisco where there's  moderate temps,  a large homeless community already, and TONNES of  'free' gov't handouts than it to be homeless in some smaller town inland.

It's the same in Canada - homeless people aren't stupid, they go where the resources and advocacy groups are.

[WestCanMan]

17 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

So you’re trying to outdo them?

I'm just playing the CNN/CTV/Demmie/Libtard game.

If "$2 billion in damages, thousands of assaults, murdered cops, capturing part of a city, and using your own police force to shoot/kill some kids" is "mostly peaceful" then what happened on Jan 6th definitely qualifies as "the almost entirely peaceful and joyous celebration of democracy."

After all, it was only a very small percentage of the people there who actually hit people with fire extinguishers. Almost everyone outside and everyone who went into the capitol was strolling around very peacefully, and having polite interactions with the police.

These are your own standards, which you rigidly adhered to for years. 

By rights, people who were in jail since Jan 6th actually should have been out on cashless bail on the 7th, or Mike Pence should have solicited Americans to contribute to a bail fund to get them out of jail.

[BeaverFever]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

I'm just playing the CNN/CTV/Demmie/Libtard game.

If "$2 billion in damages, thousands of assaults, murdered cops, capturing part of a city, and using your own police force to shoot/kill some kids" is "mostly peaceful" then what happened on Jan 6th definitely qualifies as "the almost entirely peaceful and joyous celebration of democracy."

After all, it was only a very small percentage of the people there who actually hit people with fire extinguishers. Almost everyone outside and everyone who went into the capitol was strolling around very peacefully, and having polite interactions with the police.

These are your own standards, which you rigidly adhered to for years. 

By rights, people who were in jail since Jan 6th actually should have been out on cashless bail on the 7th, or Mike Pence should have solicited Americans to contribute to a bail fund to get them out of jail.

Thousands of people weee arrested as a result of those riots. 
 

It is true that it’s not possible to have a “mostly peaceful” riot just like the insurrection is not “mostly peaceful” either. What you fail to understand is that while there wee many violent riots there were also many zero-violence protests around the country that did not result in riots or violence or destruction, hence the “mostly peaceful” reference as 92% of recorded protests did not result in riots and therefore did not make it on Fox News or the other right wing outlets.   So I guess it really depends on what you want to include or exclude. 100% or protests are violent if you’ve already decided you will only count the violent ones. 

[WestCanMan]

39 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Thousands of people weee arrested as a result of those riots. 

The focus of CNN and the Dems was getting those people back on the street as soon as possible.

There was "it's covid season so we can't have crowded jails" and "bail is racist, so let's just let them out without bail" and there was "we're not prosecuting for this" and "give us bail money for these heroes", etc. 

Cops just stood there and got pelted with debris over and over again, not even 1% of the people who committed crimes were arrested. 

Quote

It is true that it’s not possible to have a “mostly peaceful” riot just like the insurrection is not “mostly peaceful” either. What you fail to understand is that while there wee many violent riots there were also many zero-violence protests around the country that did not result in riots or violence or destruction, hence the “mostly peaceful”

Buddy...

That's not a zero-violence protest being called "mostly peaceful". 

I told you that leftards were calling protests mostly peaceful when they knew that was an absolute lie.

It's an absolute fact that violent protests were called mostly peaceful. Stop massaging the truth ffs. We both know that the protests were categorized as mostly peaceful and we both know that after 10 pm they all got violent. 

The topic of violence was not a part of CNN's discussion. They just called other people racist for bringing it up. 

Quote

reference as 92% of recorded protests did not result in riots and therefore did not make it on Fox News or the other right wing outlets.   So I guess it really depends on what you want to include or exclude. 100% or protests are violent if you’ve already decided you will only count the violent ones. 

99% of the people at the almost entirely peaceful and joyous celebration of democracy didn't hit anyone. That's 99%, not 92%. Hence the "almost entirely....".

You're only counting the violent people at the almost entirely peaceful and joyous celebration of democracy, Beave. That's a little bit racist. 

[impartialobserver]

cities with lower crime have somethings in common. 1. Relatively new or have seen growth in just the past decade 2. Not the largest cities.. 25k to 100K and 3. They are relatively affluent (which probably leads to the growth). 

Edited September 6, 2023 by impartialobserver

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

What you fail to understand is that while there wee many violent riots there were also many zero-violence protests around the country that did not result in riots or violence or destruction,

Trump could make the same claim tho couldn't he?

Just now, impartialobserver said:

cities with lower crime have somethings in common. 1. Relatively new or have seen growth in just the past decade 2. Not the largest cities.. 25k to 75K and 3. They are relatively affluent (which probably leads to the growth). 

That's actually interesting.  I wonder why those particular factors would be relevant?

[BeaverFever]

On 9/6/2023 at 4:46 PM, CdnFox said:

Trump could make the same claim tho couldn't he?

Sure, that’s not disputed. We don’t care about the non-violent Trump protests. The Jan 6 attack on the Capitol was not one of those. 
 

On 9/6/2023 at 4:46 PM, CdnFox said:

That's actually interesting.  I wonder why those particular factors would be relevant?

Because the crime rate is a function of poverty and the profile provided describes “bedroom communities” that are typically satellites of an urban centre rather than actual cities that can stand on their own. These communities are generally unaffordable to the poorest citizens and in the US zoning bylaws, aggressive policing and other methods are employed by local authorities to keep it that way 

[CdnFox]

14 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Sure, that’s not disputed. We don’t care about the non-violent Trump protests. The Jan 6 attack on the Capitol was not one of those. 
 

 

But it was mostly peaceful    They met away from the capital buliding and had a peaceful protest before that.

The point being claiming a protest or series of protests that turned violent and ugly 'mostly peaceful' is beyond dishonest. They're violent.

Quote

Because the crime rate is a function of poverty and the profile provided describes “bedroom communities” that are typically satellites of an urban centre rather than actual cities that can stand on their own. These communities are generally unaffordable to the poorest citizens and in the US zoning bylaws, aggressive policing and other methods are employed by local authorities to keep it that way 

Interesting. I'll have to poke around with that one of these days.

[BeaverFever]

22 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

The point being claiming a protest or series of protests that turned violent and ugly 'mostly peaceful' is beyond dishonest. They're violent.

The violent ones are violent. The nonviolent ones are nonviolent. 

[BeaverFever]

24 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Interesting. I'll have to poke around with that one of these days.

Density is also a factor.   Its not just enough to have a few poor people or a widely dispersed population of poor people. High crime areas occur where there is a critical mass of poor people, creating a zone of poverty and lack of economic opportunity and shortage of positive peer role models . 

[CdnFox]

14 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

The violent ones are violent. The nonviolent ones are nonviolent. 

Not according to the left. According to the left - if a left wing riot the burns a significant portion of a city and leaves people dead was peaceful earlier  then it's  not a violent riot - it's a "mostly peaceful protest".  We heard that a million times while cities burned in the us in 2021.  The dems were very supportive of that.

ON the other hand - if trump rioters break the law then ALL TRUMP PROTESTS ARE VIOLENT!!!! And in fact all trump supporters are too!!!! AND all republicans!!!!!

I wish that was hyperbole but in fact that's what was said. Which of course just breeds more violence - but the dems don't really care about the violence, they like it when it's their side.  they just want to be able to blame republicans for it.

So,  lets not pretend for one second that you believe what you just said.  It's true - but we know those on the left don't believe it and never have.

[impartialobserver]

On 9/6/2023 at 1:46 PM, CdnFox said:

Trump could make the same claim tho couldn't he?

That's actually interesting.  I wonder why those particular factors would be relevant?

An older city has the older urban core. Older buildings, older roads are expensive to maintain (should not be but that is for another day) and so the affluent, young to middle age, move to the bedroom community or suburb. What is left is an older urban centre where legal, accounting, and government employees work but largely leave it after 5 pm. The businesses are low end retail, niche restaurants, and some bars. Not a lot of affordable residential. As a side bar, we do all sorts of analysis on home prices and apparently Toronto has seen some incredible growth in housing cost in the last 10 years. 

On the outer ring of the downtown or old urban core is the run down part of town, Old, decrepit apartments, duplexes, and the usual section 8/government-assisted housing. This is where your crime is incubated. Either it is where the crime happens (muggings, stabbings, domestic violence) or it is where it is sourced in the form of drugs. In the case of drugs, this outer ring is where they are made or sold, depending on the substance. When I was homeless in 1999, the group that i associated with for sake of protection were largely drug mules that got their product from a house just on the edge of downtown SLC. 

Newer cities do not have this dynamic. They have no old urban core or it is very small (Twin Falls, Idaho as a great example). Also, being a population of 50K, it still has some small town flavor hence not everyone is completely anonymous. Lastly, when a city sees considerable growth that growth does not come from poor people. It is mostly affluent middle income earners who had the resources to move from x to y. Your middle income earner is not who is going to commit most of your crimes. 

 

[CdnFox]

38 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

An older city has the older urban core. Older buildings, older roads are expensive to maintain (should not be but that is for another day) and so the affluent, young to middle age, move to the bedroom community or suburb. What is left is an older urban centre where legal, accounting, and government employees work but largely leave it after 5 pm. The businesses are low end retail, niche restaurants, and some bars. Not a lot of affordable residential. As a side bar, we do all sorts of analysis on home prices and apparently Toronto has seen some incredible growth in housing cost in the last 10 years. 

On the outer ring of the downtown or old urban core is the run down part of town, Old, decrepit apartments, duplexes, and the usual section 8/government-assisted housing. This is where your crime is incubated. Either it is where the crime happens (muggings, stabbings, domestic violence) or it is where it is sourced in the form of drugs. In the case of drugs, this outer ring is where they are made or sold, depending on the substance. When I was homeless in 1999, the group that i associated with for sake of protection were largely drug mules that got their product from a house just on the edge of downtown SLC. 

Newer cities do not have this dynamic. They have no old urban core or it is very small (Twin Falls, Idaho as a great example). Also, being a population of 50K, it still has some small town flavor hence not everyone is completely anonymous. Lastly, when a city sees considerable growth that growth does not come from poor people. It is mostly affluent middle income earners who had the resources to move from x to y. Your middle income earner is not who is going to commit most of your crimes. 

 

Thanks for taking the time to put that up.  Some interesting points to ponder there.

[Rebound]

On 9/7/2023 at 9:09 PM, CdnFox said:

But it was mostly peaceful    They met away from the capital buliding and had a peaceful protest before that.

The point being claiming a protest or series of protests that turned violent and ugly 'mostly peaceful' is beyond dishonest. They're violent.

Interesting. I'll have to poke around with that one of these days.

I think that most of the people who came to the January 6 event were not violent and they had no intention of being violent.  Same with the BLM protesters. 

But clearly over 1,000 people were violent, because that’s how many have been charged. 
 

Setting aside the purpose of the demonstration;  whether it was anti-nuclear or animal rights or pro-life, the protest is fine but when people start attacking police officers, tearing down barricades and then breaking into and attacking the US Capitol, they’ve broken the law. And if you were on a jury of some protester who said, “I didn’t do anything wrong, all I did was walk over the broken barricades and broken glass to walk around inside the US Capitol,” I think you’d convict that person of trespass. Because those people knew perfectly well that they weren’t supposed to climb over the broken barricades and through the broken windows to get inside.  

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Rebound said:

I think that most of the people who came to the January 6 event were not violent and they had no intention of being violent.  Same with the BLM protesters. 

But clearly over 1,000 people were violent, because that’s how many have been charged.

Well charged is not convicted. We'll see how the dust settles. 

But regardless - when it was blm then the left DEMANDED that the whole thing was a peaceful protest and that calling it anything else was unfair because the vast majority of people weren't violent as far as we can tell.

Yet - here, its an insurrection, EVERYONE was violent, and they get very angry if you point out it was 'mostly peaceful'.

Once again - massive hypocrisy on the left and it makes it very hard to take them seriously about the issue.

 

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Setting aside the purpose of the demonstration;  whether it was anti-nuclear or animal rights or pro-life, the protest is fine but when people start attacking police officers, tearing down barricades and then breaking into and attacking the US Capitol, they’ve broken the law.

Unless they're democrats..  When the democrat supporters did all of that (gov't buildings rather than the capital but same thing) and even violently seized hunks of a city the dems called it an 'understandable protest' and assisted with donations for bail money.

Generally speaking i can accept people who are consistant. IF someone thinks "Everyone should like vanilla" or "everyone should hate vanilla" i might disagree but at least they're consistant.  But this "i can like vanilla but if you do then you're a bad person " routine is just terrible.

Pesonally i think that both events were horrible, that both parties should have been absolute and universal in their condemnation of the events, and that those involved should go to jail and that it shouldn't be a  "political" issue.

But that's not what happens. So it would appear the dems dont' care about violence or 'attacks on demorcracy', they only care about virtue points and weaponizing events against their opponents.