Canadian Muslims to stage 'Million Person March' to protest against Trudeau Liberal's push for LGBTQ indoctrination in schools

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Sure, but that doesn’t give you the right to shove gender ideology and alternative sexual lifestyles down kids’ throats in elementary schools.  You can try in the name of your interpretation of social justice, but you will get an all out war from those who disagree with you, thankfully.

Okay.  I'll just support the teaching that homosexuality is normal and should be accepted in all walks of society, and that religious bigotry is wrong.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

Why do people keep bringing up freedom of religion as though that means they can make others adhere to their religious beliefs?

Its not about adherence. My wife is Christian. She is God fearing. I am non religious. 

I respect her religious beliefs, just as she respects me being non religious.

In her culture, homosexuality is tolerated, but is considered a sin. With that said, she's a live and let live type of person. 

Being trans is no different, but equally tolerated.

She's not going to go around telling gay and trans people how to live, just like she will not tolerate being told how she should worship or believe in God.

Rightfully so, in my opinion. 

I firmly disagree with some of her beliefs, but she is independent just like I am. I don't understand why I should make her abide to my views, which I feel may be better when she feels the same about hers.

That's the beauty of tolerance. It means you accept all those who are different than you, but don't shove your beliefs down their throats.

Her daughter came out to her, and for the longest time, thought she was a boy. Her mother quickly told her she was a woman, and there was no fighting.

She now embraces being a woman. Shocking, but she was going through a phase. 

To have teachers tell her she can bind her breasts or change genders via their teachings, would be imposing your way of life onto someone completely content with who they were.

Neither is okay in my books. Give kids access to the help they may need, but don't drive your ideologies onto them.

[Guest]

When this group understands you can't gaslight people into believing things that are clearly non factual, will you stop seeing high levels of division on the subject.

Only then, could tolerance be discussed. You're otherwise in wishing well, putting a bulls eye on a group of people simply trying to exist peacefully.

Very hard to achieve when those who are activists in "support", act like bullies and aren't hesitant to crush any dissenting views.

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Its not about adherence. My wife is Christian. She is God fearing. I am non religious. 

I respect her religious beliefs, just as she respects me being non religious.

In her culture, homosexuality is tolerated, but is considered a sin. With that said, she's a live and let live type of person. 

Being trans is no different, but equally tolerated.

She's not going to go around telling gay and trans people how to live, just like she will not tolerate being told how she should worship or believe in God.

Rightfully so, in my opinion. 

I firmly disagree with some of her beliefs, but she is independent just like I am. I don't understand why I should make her abide to my views, which I feel may be better when she feels the same about hers.

That's the beauty of tolerance. It means you accept all those who are different than you, but don't shove your beliefs down their throats.

Her daughter came out to her, and for the longest time, thought she was a boy. Her mother quickly told her she was a woman, and there was no fighting.

She now embraces being a woman. Shocking, but she was going through a phase. 

To have teachers tell her she can bind her breasts or change genders via their teachings, would be imposing your way of life onto someone completely content with who they were.

Neither is okay in my books. Give kids access to the help they may need, but don't drive your ideologies onto them.

But I don't disagree at all.  Your wife, like every other religious person on the planet, is free to adhere to her religion's tenets and rules within the law.

(I might, if I disagree with the law, say so.  That's what some people on here are doing in this case and that's their right)

I still don't understand why anyone thinks a religious persons views should be respected by anyone else, except in the respect of the right to hold them.

I said schools should teach that homosexuality is normal and a valid basis for any relationship that can include marriage and children.  Basically no different from a heterosexual relationship.  I never mentioned breast binding.  Gender disphoria, sex changes etc, are medical issues and procedures that no teacher should ever get involved with as they as absolutely not qualified to do so.

28 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

When this group understands you can't gaslight people into believing things that are clearly non factual, will you stop seeing high levels of division on the subject.

Only then, could tolerance be discussed. You're otherwise in wishing well, putting a bulls eye on a group of people simply trying to exist peacefully.

Very hard to achieve when those who are activists in "support", act like bullies and aren't hesitant to crush any dissenting views.

Sure, but good luck getting people to agree on who is doing what.

Edited August 7, 2023 by bcsapper

[CdnFox]

12 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Well, you're wrong.  I'm not denying that when I look around me I see nastiness of the first order. 

 

ROFL - well if you're not denying it them i'm right.  Sorry.

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Most of it comes from those intolerant of lifestyles they don't understand or believe their God tells them are wrong, but there is definitely some nastiness from the other side too.

Right - that's why it's going up. Because god is a new thing.

 

Quote

And I would never try and insist someone change their views. 

But "teaching Tolerance" always winds up being exactly that.  In the end it always becomes "My way is right and must be accepted and your way is wrong and you must change."

And then there's pushback. '

You can literally see it all around you today. Newtons third law tend to apply to humans as well -  for every reaction there's an equal and opposite reaction - and even worse for every escalation there's an equal and opposite escalation.

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Schools should teach that homosexual relationships are just as valid as heterosexual relationships, because they are.

In your opinion.  But it's JUST an opinion.  There's no "valid-o-meter"' reading you can point to. You just think that way. Others think different.

It is divisive and destructive to try to teach kids about strongly controversial opinions in school where you teach only one side and pretend all other opinons are invalid. 

 

Quote

They should keep teaching it.  They should not beat anyone who disagrees, repress their right to speak or kick them out of the school as you suggested they might in your last post.  They should just keep teaching it.

Yes! And those that disagree, we can make them wear little stars and have to have numbered tattoos and then seize their bank accounts....

Dude.  Get your head out of your ass and listen to what you sound like.  "My opinion should be absolute and all other people should be pushed aside".  Where have we heard that? Has it EVER worked out?

And you claim you would "never" want to tell people what to think?' You're literally demanding exactly that right now.

Elementary and high schools are NOT places where people should be fighting over controversial opinions or personal beliefs that divide people.  Stop doing it - and ban it from the schools if you have to.  Before there's a war that does REAL harm.

 

[impartialobserver]

my guess is that they will fall well short of a million people. The million man march of 1995 did not have a million people in it and Canada has far less population to draw from

 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

ROFL - well if you're not denying it them i'm right.  Sorry.

Right - that's why it's going up. Because god is a new thing.

 

But "teaching Tolerance" always winds up being exactly that.  In the end it always becomes "My way is right and must be accepted and your way is wrong and you must change."

And then there's pushback. '

You can literally see it all around you today. Newtons third law tend to apply to humans as well -  for every reaction there's an equal and opposite reaction - and even worse for every escalation there's an equal and opposite escalation.

In your opinion.  But it's JUST an opinion.  There's no "valid-o-meter"' reading you can point to. You just think that way. Others think different.

It is divisive and destructive to try to teach kids about strongly controversial opinions in school where you teach only one side and pretend all other opinons are invalid. 

 

Yes! And those that disagree, we can make them wear little stars and have to have numbered tattoos and then seize their bank accounts....

Dude.  Get your head out of your ass and listen to what you sound like.  "My opinion should be absolute and all other people should be pushed aside".  Where have we heard that? Has it EVER worked out?

And you claim you would "never" want to tell people what to think?' You're literally demanding exactly that right now.

Elementary and high schools are NOT places where people should be fighting over controversial opinions or personal beliefs that divide people.  Stop doing it - and ban it from the schools if you have to.  Before there's a war that does REAL harm.

 

Elementary and High Schools are exactly the paces where tolerance should be taught.  If parents are going to be bigots where else can it be taught?

As for your little stars and head/arse comment, you only embarrass yourself when you have to resort to stuff like that.

I have stated many times that anyone can think whatever they want to think.  Of course, I have no idea whether you read any of those comments, so I'll reiterate that here.  Think whatever you want.  Really.  Whatever you want.

[Legato]

Those that turn up will be greeted by Trudeau handing out free tickets for the Barbie movie.

[CdnFox]

26 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Elementary and High Schools are exactly the paces where tolerance should be taught. 

Then why are you proposing to teach intolerance?

You've said it yourself - you would silence anyone who disagrees with you. You would push your agenda on others.  You would make gays stand out as a seperate group worthy of special treatment and any other group can go eff itself.  And if you're religious? YOu're a bad person. 

That's what your vision is.  And we've seen that for years now and look what's happening.

I'm sorry - but your argument is totally flat earth quality.  Your own words preach intolerance, We've seen the results of what you propose, it's like arguing that the sun comes up in the west 5 minutes after sunrise.  It's RIGHT THERE

Continuing this path is going to be disastrous. Ideology will never trump human nature - you have to account for it.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Then why are you proposing to teach intolerance?

You've said it yourself - you would silence anyone who disagrees with you. You would push your agenda on others.  You would make gays stand out as a seperate group worthy of special treatment and any other group can go eff itself.  And if you're religious? YOu're a bad person. 

That's what your vision is.  And we've seen that for years now and look what's happening.

I'm sorry - but your argument is totally flat earth quality.  Your own words preach intolerance, We've seen the results of what you propose, it's like arguing that the sun comes up in the west 5 minutes after sunrise.  It's RIGHT THERE

Continuing this path is going to be disastrous. Ideology will never trump human nature - you have to account for it.

After the Nazi comment comes the made up argument.

You're totally bereft of ideas.

[Zeitgeist]

6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

How gullible you are to believe that a few kids in a viral video represent 'evidence'.  

Staged videos are like sugar on the ground for you and your ants...

In other words, teaching a curriculum that was discussed PUBLICLY.

If you had a leg to stand on then you wouldn't resort to framing things so deceptively.

What?  How irresponsible are you?

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, bcsapper said:

But I don't disagree at all.  Your wife, like every other religious person on the planet, is free to adhere to her religion's tenets and rules within the law.

(I might, if I disagree with the law, say so.  That's what some people on here are doing in this case and that's their right)

I still don't understand why anyone thinks a religious persons views should be respected by anyone else, except in the respect of the right to hold them.

I said schools should teach that homosexuality is normal and a valid basis for any relationship that can include marriage and children.  Basically no different from a heterosexual relationship.  I never mentioned breast binding.  Gender disphoria, sex changes etc, are medical issues and procedures that no teacher should ever get involved with as they as absolutely not qualified to do so.

Sure, but good luck getting people to agree on who is doing what.

Not everyone thinks that homosexual activity is okay, though it’s legal.  That’s the point you’re missing. Teaching that it’s fine is a new value judgement that directly contradicts the values of many people.  I know you don’t like that.  It’s not going to change.  That doesn’t justify mistreating homosexuals.  It does mean that if you describe and/or promote homosexual activity in schools, you’re going to see heavy pushback from people whose beliefs oppose such behaviour.  Push harder and expect harder pushback.

Also please explain how homosexual relationships include children.  I want to hear your explanation.  

Edited August 7, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Not everyone thinks that homosexual activity is okay, though it’s legal.  That’s the point you’re missing. Teaching that it’s fine is a new value judgement that directly contradicts the values of many people.  I know you don’t like that.  It’s not going to change.  That doesn’t justify mistreating homosexuals.  It does mean that if you describe and/or promote homosexual activity in schools, you’re going to see heavy pushback from people whose beliefs oppose such behaviour.  Push harder and expect harder pushback.  

I'm not missing a point, you pleb.  There are bigots everywhere.  I can't do anything about that.

Edited August 7, 2023 by bcsapper

[Zeitgeist]

2 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I'm not missing a point, you pleb.  There are bigots everywhere.  I can't do anything about that.

Please explain how homosexual relationships include children.  I want to hear your explanation.  Also I think your comments about religious people are bigoted.  

Edited August 7, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[Guest]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

Please explain how homosexual relationships include children.  I want to hear your explanation.  

Please explain how any sexual relationships include children.  I really want to hear your explanation!

[Zeitgeist]

Just now, bcsapper said:

Please explain how any sexual relationships include children.  I really want to hear your explanation!

A man and a woman have sex, naturally producing children.  Hopefully the parents who give birth to those children love each other and are in a committed relationship.  That’s the goal.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

A man and a woman have sex, naturally producing children.  Hopefully the parents who give birth to those children love each other and are in a committed relationship.  That’s the goal.

Ah.  You meant in a relationship, not in the teaching about relationships in school.  I got confused, as that is what the thread is about.

I know of women who are infertile, or have had hysterectomies.  I know of men who are infertile, or have had vasectomies.  I know of adoption, surrogacy, and artificial insemination.

Your argument is juvenile, grow up!

Edited August 7, 2023 by bcsapper

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, impartialobserver said:

my guess is that they will fall well short of a million people. The million man march of 1995 did not have a million people in it and Canada has far less population to draw from

 

There are only 1.7 M Muslims in Canada

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Canada

[Michael Hardner]

46 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

What?  How irresponsible are you?

Hm?

Your basis for believing people are against LGBTQ is a cooked video.

How does that make me irresponsible?

[Zeitgeist]

22 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Ah.  You meant in a relationship, not in the teaching about relationships in school.  I got confused, as that is what the thread is about.

I know of women who are infertile, or have had hysterectomies.  I know of men who are infertile, or have had vasectomies.  I know of adoption, surrogacy, and artificial insemination.

Your argument is juvenile, grow up!

You support the unnatural. I’m glad you explained yourself.  The religious perspective, generally, is that relying on technology, surgery, and unnatural interventions is what you want to avoid.  It’s “juvenile” to pretend that gay couples can reproduce together.  They cannot.  One partner can’t be the biological parent and either a form of artificial fertilization or surrogacy is necessary. Adopting is the only other option.  I won’t even get into the question of whether it’s better for a child to have role model parents from both genders, though many religious and even non-religious people would say that it is.  Is it possible for gay couples to raise kids? Yes.  Is it legal? Yes.  Is it the best case scenario?  That’s where opinions vary. Telling people that all scenarios are equally valid is a value judgement on which not everyone agrees, so don’t do it.  You can argue, but you can’t force people to reject their values and beliefs.  

Edited August 7, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[Michael Hardner]

17 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

 

Your argument is juvenile, grow up!

You missed something though.  They also just argued that schools SHOULD teach morality, not just the 3Rs.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You support the unnatural. I’m glad you explained yourself.  The religious perspective, generally, is that relying on technology, surgery, and unnatural interventions is what you want to avoid.  It’s “juvenile” to pretend that gay couples can reproduce together.  They cannot.  One partner can’t be the biological parent and either a form of fertilization or surrogacy is necessary. Adopting is the only other option.  I won’t even get into the question of whether it’s better for a child to have role model parents from both genders, though many religious and even non-religious people would say that it is.  Is it possible for gay couples to raise kids? Yes.  Is it legal? Yes.  Is it the best case scenario?  That’s where opinions vary. Making and telling people that all scenarios are equally valid is a value judgement on which not everyone agrees, so don’t do it.  You can argue, but you can’t force people to reject their values and beliefs.  

You support the religious. I’m glad you explained yourself.  Actually, I already knew.

I hope you never drive anywhere, or eat processed foods, or go to the hospital when you are sick, or take medication.

Bloody hell!?

Edited August 7, 2023 by bcsapper

[impartialobserver]

14 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

There are only 1.7 M Muslims in Canada

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Canada

and most are not going to want to participate. 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You missed something though.  They also just argued that schools SHOULD teach morality, not just the 3Rs.

Discriminating against homosexuals is immoral.  So is basing a curriculum on religion.

I'm okay with morality

 

[Zeitgeist]

11 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

You support the religious. I’m glad you explained yourself.  Actually, I already knew.

I hope you never drive anywhere, or eat processed foods, or go to the hospital when you are sick, or take medication.

Bloody hell!?

Be careful what you wish for.  Yes modern medicine can be tremendously beneficial.  Technology can be used for good or ill. Ask the descendants of Hiroshima survivors. The problem is that without a solid ethical framework, (and it doesn’t have to be religious), there is no guidance for the application of technology.  We have the technology to enhance the vision of legally blind people. We also have the tech to merge the brain with computer chips. We face the possibility of artificial intelligence advancing far beyond our ability to control it.  All of this is happening in the context of MAID, an epidemic in transgender surgeries, especially among women, and deep fake misinformation.

As a humanist, let alone a religious person, I think it’s important to keep life natural where possible, including on the environment front.  Clean air, water, mind, and body.  I include family life and the principle of subsidiarity in this mix: Keep decisions as local as possible, among the people most impacted by decisions.  Keep the big corporations and elites at bay in your lives, so you can live freely and in accordance with nature (and God if you’re religious).

Edited August 7, 2023 by Zeitgeist