Top 20% of income earners fund majority of Ottawa's income tax revenue: report

CdnFox · August 3, 2023

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

We probably wouldn't need to increase taxes on the rich if the economic playing field was level and true.

Thatls the kind of thing that those on the left say but usually struggle to define in any meaningful way.

How is the "playing field" unlevel at the moment in canada, or 'untrue'?

Quote

In fact we might even have to lower them once the income/wealth gap started closing.

The income gap has nothing to do with the subject. But if it makes you feel better, if rich people were poorer they would already pay less under our system, so if we 'close the gap' by making them poor then sure. Problem is we won't be able to afford our gov't services any more either because our tax revenues would be gone.

CdnFox · August 3, 2023

10 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You do realize that you support corrupt lying politicians right?

Really - who's that? Or are you going to try to trot out that pathetically tired excuse that "all politicians are corrupt"?

Quote

You wouldn't lift a finger to make Canada's governance more transparent because your desire to act like a dink towards lefties is more important to you.

When the Progressive Conservatives became corrupt and also refused to be more responsive and transparant we destroyed the party entirely and built a new one. Burned it to the ground.

Did the same thing provincially here in bc as well. AND the NDP voters did something similar tho not quite as strongly here as well.

But liberal supporters will support corruption all day long. So what's the point of more transparency?

Sooooooo - yeah. Swing and a miss there kiddo.

Quote

This is what makes you as stupid as a bag of dogshit and a bigger dilettant than Trudeau.

Awwww - leftie trudeau supporter is having a breakdown Poor fella.

You really do hate having facts and reason introduced to the conversation don't you. Fact is trudeau has been found guilty of allowing a known lobbyist bribe him inappropriately and admitted the whole thing. That's history. And you did nothing.

impartialobserver · August 3, 2023

I do not know Canada's tax structure but this makes sense on the surface. The US has a similar dynamic thanks for the EITC.

eyeball · August 3, 2023

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

Thatls the kind of thing that those on the left say but usually struggle to define in any meaningful way.

This is what a lickspittle says when defending their betters. The thought of interfering with their capacity to influence the government seems to terrify you into saying stupid things.

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

How is the "playing field" unlevel at the moment in canada, or 'untrue'?

For the same reason you know it is when you make it apparent that you don't appreciate the Aga Khan giving Trudeau a bribe. Why do you suppose the Khan do that?

9 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

The income gap has nothing to do with the subject. But if it makes you feel better, if rich people were poorer they would already pay less under our system, so if we 'close the gap' by making them poor then sure. Problem is we won't be able to afford our gov't services any more either because our tax revenues would be gone.

So you're saying narrowing the income/wealth gap would make everyone poorer. This sounds like the same retarded argument you're using in the thread on productivity.

CdnFox · August 3, 2023

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

This is what a lickspittle says when defending their betters. The thought of interfering with their capacity to influence the government seems to terrify you into saying stupid things.

ROFLMAO - triggered leftie is triggered

Good heavens - i didn't think you'd be able to answer the question WELL but i didn't realize it would send you into a mental tail spin

Quote

For the same reason you know it is when you make it apparent that you don't appreciate the Aga Khan giving Trudeau a bribe. Why do you suppose the Khan do that?

Calm down, calm down... you're getting so mad your english is starting to slip and it's getting harder to follow you.

Now - the aga khan thing is really bad politically but it doesn't stop me from earning whatever i like. And as near as i can tell ANYONE can bribe trudeau so it IS a level field.

So - again, what SPECIFICALLY is 'unlevel'? is there something stopping you from earning more than you do today?

Quote

So you're saying narrowing the income/wealth gap would make everyone poorer.

Not everyone - if it made EVERYONE poorer then the gap wouldn't narrow would it?

I'm saying it'll make the rich poorer. Or vanish. But the problem with that is that they pay EIGHTY PERCENT OF OUR TAXES you !DIOT. (could you not at least TRY to read the articles?)

Which means as they earn less, or simply go away as we've seen in other places, then we don't have the tax revenues to pay for our services do we?

Funny story - turns out you don't get jobs and taxes from poor people

impartialobserver · August 3, 2023

Claiming that closing the income gap will increase/decrease wages or jobs is one very complex item. We tackled this in grad school and every time that we thought we had come to a conclusion... someone would bring up something and we would have to scrap it.

CdnFox · August 3, 2023

12 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

I do not know Canada's tax structure but this makes sense on the surface. The US has a similar dynamic thanks for the EITC.

It gets a little werid because we've got federal taxes such as the GST as well as provincial taxes and such but overall it's not really that much different in concept.

The more money you earn, the higher a percent of the money you pay. For illustration purposes - you might pay nothnig below 15 thousand then 20 percent on the money between 15 - 30 and then 40 percent on 30 -60 and 50 perent on everything above that,

So if you're earning 250 thousand after deductions most of your income is in the highest tax bracket.

eyeball · August 3, 2023

7 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Really - who's that? Or are you going to try to trot out that pathetically tired excuse that "all politicians are corrupt"?

Nope not all of them, but enough are to spoil the pot.

9 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

When the Progressive Conservatives became corrupt and also refused to be more responsive and transparant we destroyed the party entirely and built a new one. Burned it to the ground.

So why aren't the new honest Conservatives making transparency and coorruption the main plank of their campaign?

11 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Did the same thing provincially here in bc as well. AND the NDP voters did something similar tho not quite as strongly here as well.

But liberal supporters will support corruption all day long. So what's the point of more transparency?

Sooooooo - yeah. Swing and a miss there kiddo.

I've said many times over the years I would sic public oversight on 'my side' even harder so it could stay in power longer. I HATE it when someone I trust betrays that trust. Sorta like you when your parents told you Santa wasn't real.

14 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

You really do hate having facts and reason introduced to the conversation don't you. Fact is trudeau has been found guilty of allowing a known lobbyist bribe him inappropriately and admitted the whole thing. That's history. And you did nothing.

I did nothing except double down on calling for greater transparency. You responded the same way lots of right wingers around here have over the years, called me a liar and declared me a supporter of whatever corrupt government prompted the call for greater transparency.

You're all as dumb as dogshit on that particular score.

Maybe if the idea of greater transparency were a conservative's idea and not mine you'd be more interested.

Yes I do think you're that petty about being an anti-leftie. If a lefty came up with a cure for cancer you'd be in here a minute later saying lefties cause cancer. THAT'S how partisan you are.

CdnFox · August 3, 2023

Just now, impartialobserver said:

Claiming that closing the income gap will increase/decrease wages or jobs is one very complex item. We tackled this in grad school and every time that we thought we had come to a conclusion... someone would bring up something and we would have to scrap it.

Well the only practical way to close the gap is for the rich to earn less. If you have the middle or low earn more to catch up to them you run into inflationary issues and it winds up being the same thing anyway.

The whole 'income gap' thing is a complete joke to begin with. For it to matter you would have to show that someone earning more only did so because someone else earned less than they would have otherwise. However - most of the time the opposite is true. As the rich get richer people around them benefit and more high paying jobs are created and more opportunity is created. Etc etc.

eyeball · August 3, 2023

4 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

Claiming that closing the income gap will increase/decrease wages or jobs is one very complex item. We tackled this in grad school and every time that we thought we had come to a conclusion... someone would bring up something and we would have to scrap it.

Not as complex as wondering what might happen if we could prevent corruption. Many argue we'd destroy our economy if we did.

impartialobserver · August 3, 2023

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

Well the only practical way to close the gap is for the rich to earn less. If you have the middle or low earn more to catch up to them you run into inflationary issues and it winds up being the same thing anyway.

The whole 'income gap' thing is a complete joke to begin with. For it to matter you would have to show that someone earning more only did so because someone else earned less than they would have otherwise. However - most of the time the opposite is true. As the rich get richer people around them benefit and more high paying jobs are created and more opportunity is created. Etc etc.

The assumption that income/wealth is a zero sum game is really hard to prove. Just because I earn more... does not mean that the person next to me earns less.

the complexity comes in the fact that as someone goes from earning 500K to 501K.. they spend progressively less on consumption goods and more on financial instruments. Whereas, when you go from 51K to 52K.. your consumption purchases go up at a higher rate.

eyeball · August 3, 2023

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

The whole 'income gap' thing is a complete joke to begin with. For it to matter you would have to show that someone earning more only did so because someone else earned less than they would have otherwise.

Or they earned it because someone tilted the playing field in their favour.

Can't show that however because...it wouldn't be fair or something.

CdnFox · August 3, 2023

Just now, eyeball said:

Nope not all of them, but enough are to spoil the pot.

Well that wouldn't happen if voters punished the hell out of the ones who were corrupt. Like the Conservative voters do or to a slightly lesser extend the ndp voters do. STAAAAAAAAAAARE.

Quote

So why aren't the new honest Conservatives making transparency and coorruption the main plank of their campaign?

Why would they? the libs have set the bar there - corruption will not be punished by them.

There's no point if only one side plays by the rules. The Conservatives have constantly punished corruption. Bev Oda got punted for wasting taxpayer's money on a 14 dollar glass of OJ. The Libs let Justin get 100's of thousands in corrupt bennies and do nothing, , So there's no point

Quote

I've said many times over the years I would sic public oversight on 'my side' even harder so it could stay in power longer. I HATE it when someone I trust betrays that trust. Sorta like you when your parents told you Santa wasn't real.

I'm sorry to hear about your emotional scars from having to be told 'santa' isn't real LOL

But - fact is you aren't. Justin is guilty - you defend him and his party regularly, and certainly aren't demanding he be tossed.

So - right off the bat we can see you're not being honest there.

Quote

I did nothing except double down on calling for greater transparency.

Exactly. The transparancy we have already showed justin is corrupt. And you did nothing. Nothing.

So there's no point to more transparency. What - if they find out more stuff you'll do nothing harder?

Quote

You're all as dumb as dogshit on that particular score.

Still smarter than you kiddo

Quote

Maybe if the idea of greater transparency were a conservative's idea and not mine you'd be more interested.

It was, we did it, and you and your kind simply say "meh - so he's corrupt so what'.

There's no point in transparency if you and your ilk will simply let them walk anyway.

Quote

Yes I do think....

You hide it well.

eyeball · August 3, 2023

13 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

So - again, what SPECIFICALLY is 'unlevel'? is there something stopping you from earning more than you do today?

Fishing...logging...airbnb... People have been trying to prevent me from earning a living all my life.

When 1000's of fishermen lost their livelihoods in BC Jimmy Pattison and Galen Weston wound up controlling up to 40% of the coastwide quota.

Guess what happened to the income gap?

CdnFox · August 3, 2023

4 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

The assumption that income/wealth is a zero sum game is really hard to prove. Just because I earn more... does not mean that the person next to me earns less.

Agreed, that was my point indeed. I mean - i suppose it's POSSIBLE that he came and actually stole something from you somehow but in most cases if you earned more you did not take a nickle from my opportunities in donig so - and in fact probably created opportunity for me.

Quote

the complexity comes in the fact that as someone goes from earning 500K to 501K.. they spend progressively less on consumption goods and more on financial instruments. Whereas, when you go from 51K to 52K.. your consumption purchases go up at a higher rate.

You're not wrong obviously, But it's also true they tend to spend money on investments that provide opportunity for others.

ANd you have to look at the downstream. Gates is a mulit billionare - but in getting there how many microsoft multi-millionares did he make? Thousands for sure. And many who had opportunities to make very very high wages that they probably woudln't have - and so on. So all around him there's this decending hill of weath and opportunity for people that wouldn't have been there if he hadn't gotten that wealthy.

Bottom line is - it's one thing to worry about whether or not people at the bottom or the middle have opportunity - it's not worth worrying about the people at the top and 'punishing' them for their success.

eyeball · August 3, 2023

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

There's no point if only one side plays by the rules. The Conservatives have constantly punished corruption. Bev Oda got punted for wasting taxpayer's money on a 14 dollar glass of OJ. The Libs let Justin get 100's of thousands in corrupt bennies and do nothing, , So there's no point

This simply proves Conservatives suck at being corrupt - not surprisingly they suck just as bad at preventing it.

7 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I'm sorry to hear about your emotional scars from having to be told 'santa' isn't real LOL

Is that what I said? Go back and read it again you stupid bag of dogshit.

CdnFox · August 3, 2023

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

Fishing...logging...airbnb... People have been trying to prevent me from earning a living all my life.

Lots and lots of people earn money fishing and logging.

Airbnb? You can totally still do that in the right places - you just need to be smart about it. Which rich people are allowed to airbnb in the same place you're not?

How did rich people prevent you from doing those things?

I mean i guess you're not allowed to get rich selling drugs legally either but i'd hardly blame the rich for that, so where does the 'Unlevel" part come in?

eyeball · August 3, 2023

3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

so where does the 'Unlevel" part come in?

Behind closed doors when lobbyists and politicians get together out of sight.

You trust them, I don't. You're naive, I'm not.

Edited August 3, 2023 by eyeball

eyeball · August 3, 2023

4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Airbnb? You can totally still do that in the right places - you just need to be smart about it. Which rich people are allowed to airbnb in the same place you're not?

We've been pretty much equally reviled around here. Fortunately we have a really stupid local councillor hereabouts who runs his own BNB while voting against every application that's come before council.

Nothing has demolished sentiments against bnb's faster than this sort of hypocrisy and nothing has made people wonder more openly how tilted the playing field would be if these applications were dealt with behind closed doors out of public sight.

CdnFox · August 3, 2023

30 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Behind closed doors when lobbyists and politicians get together out of sight.

Which is what? What exactly are they doing that's ruining your life? And why can't you start a group lobbying otherwise?

ExFlyer · August 3, 2023

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Did you forget to take your meds again today? Let me walk you through it again.

"We don't have to raise taxes on the rich if we have more information to hold the gov't to account if the rich influence them"

Followed by

"We don't hold them accountable with the the information we have now, how would more help?"

That is 100 percent on topic, "we don't need to tax the rich if.... "that's not accurate because....

Not to mention its STUPID to pretend EVERY Thread doesn't wander off topic a bit. Every single one,

FFS - you seemed like at least a few of your brain cells were working for a SHORT while recently - could you go back to NOT being a complete !diot pls? You're not going to o back to hissy fits and moronic posts that go on forever are you?

None of that has anything to do with the Aga Kahn scandal.

CdnFox · August 3, 2023

22 minutes ago, eyeball said:

We've been pretty much equally reviled around here. Fortunately we have a really stupid local councillor hereabouts who runs his own BNB while voting against every application that's come before council.

.

Well it sounds like once again it's not really a transparancy issue - you know where the problem lies. Get the people together and vote him out.

Option two of course is sell the place and buy another one somewhere that allows AirBNB.

At the end of the day there's always barriers to what you want to do whether you're rich or not. There's lots of ways you can still get ahead and gain wealth and there will be barriers but that's true if you're rich as well. I could tell you some stories

I just don't see where people are being repressed

eyeball · August 4, 2023

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Which is what?

That's the million dollar question. No one knows for sure because it's a big secret. In the registry that lobbyists are required by law to disclose their reason for lobbying SNC Lavalin said it was to discuss criminal issues and public policy not get Jody Wilson-Raybould off our back.

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

And why can't you start a group lobbying otherwise?

I can, and I would insist our meeting be made public so the public could trust us.

Moonbox · August 4, 2023

6 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Red herring.
What others make has long been an issue of envy. Most senior managers have been recruited and lured to the positions with pay and benefits. It is what it is. To get the high level people you want, you need to pay for them.

No, the top 20% is a red herring. The top 1% or 5% even is another story.

6 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

The"poor" (everyday folks like you and me) can take advantage of the tax loopholes that the rich do as well. The choice is yours to make. Sure, close them if you think that will help....help what??

No, they really can't. They don't have access to the expertise nor do they have the disposable income to set themselves up to take advantage of those loopholes.

As for what it helps, it helps shore up public finances to make people earning at the top actually pay what they're supposed to in taxes. The amount of bullshit write-offs that we can get away with as self-employed individuals is comical, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

CdnFox · August 4, 2023

48 minutes ago, eyeball said:

That's the million dollar question. No one knows for sure because it's a big secret.

If there is no visible outcome that you can notice - hard to say that it's a problem. And because you have your own ability to organize lobbyists it's not an unlevel playing field at all. If there's something you wish to lobby for political change over you can do so. As someone who did have to do that i can tell you that it takes very little money to have a significant impact if you're dedicated and put in the time,

Quote

I can, and I would insist our meeting be made public so the public could trust us.

Sure - and what you'll find is no matter how transparent you are there will be many who claim you have a 'secret agenda'

The fact of the matter is no matter how innocent your agenda or how thoroughly you disclose what you're doing or record meetings etc etc there is no way to prove you didn't have something going on in the background. Couple of burner phones takes care of that,

What you have to do is judge by actions and results. State your intentions and show people you honestly delivered on them Really that's all politicians can do to inspire confidence and do right by their people.