Progressive

[August1991]

If "progressive" means what will happen inevitably, then I must disagree. No one knows what will happen, or what direction progress will take. History is littered with false predictions.

If "progressive" means that individuals should be free to choose, then I would like to believe this is possible.

If "progressive" means that individuals must adopt or follow a new way of perceiving others and society, then I think I disagree. After all, we have religion now. Is this "progressive way" just a new religion?

What does "progressive" mean?

[mowich]

If "progressive" means what will happen inevitably, then I must disagree.  No one knows what will happen, or what direction progress will take.  History is littered with false predictions.

If "progressive" means that individuals should be free to choose, then I would like to believe this is possible.

If "progressive" means that individuals must adopt or follow a new way of perceiving others and society, then I think I disagree.  After all, we have religion now.  Is this "progressive way" just a new religion?

What does "progressive" mean?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Progressive (adjective) of, relating to, or characterized by progress.

Progress (noun) to move forward, to proceed; to develop to a higher, better or more advanced stage

[Montgomery Burns]

What is the dictionary version of progressive, or what is "progressive" code for?

Progressive is code for socialist moonbats.

You ever check out some of those progressive websites? They are angry hate-filled socialists living in a bubble and are totally out of touch with reality (despite their laughable claims of living in the "reality-based community").

I think these November 2004 post-election comments from the wildly popular progressive website called the Democratic Underground sums up the "progressive liberals" very well:

DuaneBidoux: "America to World: F*ck Yourself. Let's get the meme out: Boycott American. Corporations. Pass on the Fords, GMs, Coca Cola. When businesses hurt abroad they will begin telling Bush his policy of being world asshole is bad for busines.

Buy German products, French products, countries that kept their sanity while Bush pushed this war through. Bush has been bringing this economy to it's knees for four years. Let's give it a last little push. With his f*cked up economic policies it's inevitable anyway...let's just make sure it doesn't get pushed into the next administration. WE NEED TO DO EVERYTHING IN OUR POWER TO MAKE SURE IT IS THIS SOB THAT SLEEPS IN HIS OWN PILE OF SHIT.

If you listened to the right wing this morning you know the score: they want revolution. F*ck this sh*t. This is war."

woody b: "Dear friends from Ohio,

your vote was stolen. I'm not living in Ohio, not even in the US. But apart from the output of the vote machines, nothing points to the possibility that Bush achieved more votes than Kerry. Neither Zogby's predictions, nor the exit polls, nor the huge queues in front of the electoral places.

You're no the only ones whose vote was stolen, but it's the easiest state to prove it. Your own experience, together with a statistical analysis of the data, could make the case for voter fraud.

The world will most grateful you if you start a calm revolution by gathering evidence that a lot more people voted for Kerry than for Bush."

Q3JR4: "A call to action. Or, COME ON PEOPLE!!!!! Your votes didn't count. If you live in Ohio, Colorado, Florida, they didn't count. Bush stole the election....AGAIN. With the level of voter disenfranchisement, intimidation, and Diebold trickery going on, you think that more people here would see that.

WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE? WHERE IS THE ANGER? ARE WE JUST GOING TO ROLL OVER AND TAKE IT?

They stole the election and probably have a special place in hell reserved for them for that, I'm telling you now, complacent Dems will be joining them! You may as well just hand the government to them on a silver platter again and again, because--baring a change in the way we count our votes--we'll NEVER have another majority in ANY branch of this government again!

I just can't believe that no one else is pissed off about it!

I mean, come on! I'm in IDAHO, a red state, and I'm ready to do something about it.

I can understand if there are a lot of pacifists here, and that's good. They can accomplish a lot. We don't need to get violent to create change (or sway public opinion), but we have to do SOMETHING!

We can't let them get away with it this time, or next time we're effectively screwed.

Come on people! What are we waiting for? Pick the call up and pass it along alread!"

PhuLoi: "Secession may be the last option to save the Constitution. Given the unbridgable chasm that has opened between the Blue states and the Red states, I feel that secession should be seriously considered. Blue states are no longer duly represented, votes are not being counted whereas computer created votes seem to be counted.

The basic tenants of the Constitution are endangered and we of the Blue states seem powerless to defend them. Let us then consider divorcing ourselves from this abusive relationship and reorganize under the Constituion, as it was intended, leaving the Red states to wallow in their own filth."

fdr_hst_fan: "Thanks to the inbred, redneck, Bible-besotted Solid South, we're saddled with the village idiot and his Nazi followers for another four years.

The next time the South wants to cecede, I say "Let 'em!" Who needs 'em? In fact, to facilitate matters, we should help them pack! And once they're finally GONE from the Union, we should construct a wall, not unlike the Berlin Wall, to keep them out! I guarantee, after three to five years, they'll come back on bended knee, BEGGING for re-admission to the Union. Then we'll be able to call the tune from that point on!

That's the error Lincoln and Andrew Johnson made: they wanted to be "conciliatory" to the Confederacy. Horse hockey! They STARTED that war; they didn't DESERVE any consideration! They didn't stop to consider their actions at Fort Sumter, did they?"

Liberal_Andy: "I stopped flying the flag today. I've flown the US flag every sunny day (I'm on my third one)since 9/11. I just can't do it anymore. Maybe on 7/4. We'll see."

Mountainman: "I hate America Did you hear that freeps? Several months ago, when ever I saw or heard a wingnut ask a liberal "why do you hate America?" I got pissed. The question didn't deserve an answer.

But today I can freely say that I hate America. I hate Bush's America and after this election I guess all of America will be Bush's America. So until people rise up and throw him and the conservatives out of power (There is no doubt in my mind that someday they will be out of power) I hate America.

I'm also sure I'm going to hear the 60's chant of "love or leave it." My response back in the 60's was "love it and fix it."

Now I guess I would say "hate it and fix it" sort of like when my wife says she hates her hair. To me she is saying that she's tired of the way it is and she's going to do something about it. That's what I mean about "hate it and fix it."

What I'm going to do is to get together with like minded people and make little pieces of America that we can love and hopefully those little pieces will grow and connect until we can love all America again."

Progressives are the looniest of the loons. Completely out of touch with reality. Stark raving mad idiotarians.

[newbie]

The reason the Conseravtive dropped the word from their party is:

Progressive Conservative = oxymoron.

[newbie]

What is the dictionary version of progressive, or what is "progressive" code for?

Progressive is code for socialist moonbats. 

Progressives are the looniest of the loons.  Completely out of touch with reality.  Stark raving mad idiotarians.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And you once called me mean spirited?

[Montgomery Burns]

What is the dictionary version of progressive, or what is "progressive" code for?

Progressive is code for socialist moonbats. 

Progressives are the looniest of the loons.  Completely out of touch with reality.  Stark raving mad idiotarians.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And you once called me mean spirited?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Come on newbie. You have to admit that they are angry hate-filled hard-left kooks out of touch with the public. They even rage about the "rightwing bias" of the NY Times. And they are all over the internet. Weren't you the one that I privately emailed a link to that progressive's wild deranged hatefilled rant? That was crossposted to one of the more popular progressive websites in the US--they even did radio broadcasts out of Camp Cindy in Crawford, Texas. It wasn't just a site that attracts a few dozen people a day.

And the DU is a very very very popular site; second to only Daily Kos for traffic on the left. It's not some fringe site. John Edward's wife has posted there (she was very nice, not loony). So has John Conyers. I believe that It has something like 70,000 people that are registered for their discussion forums. I believe that the DU is a reasonable indicator of the progressive liberal mindset, and it is causing a "civil war" in the Democrat Party.

There is a progressive blogger from Saskatoon and she is just hilarious when she goes on one of her many hate-filled tirades against rightwingers....homophobic warmongering Iraqi baby-killing oil-stealing corporate fat cats who exploit, oppress and steal from the poor, those gun-toting, rednecked enviroment-raping fascist nazi neocon religious extremist reichwingers. She's pure comedy gold!

Look at the Democrats top leaders - Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Ted Kennedy, and yes, that piece of *bleep* John Kerry - who went on TV and said that US troops were "terrorizing" Iraqi women and children. But that's the same crap he pulled during the Vietnam War days. If only the media would have focused on his background, instead of ignoring it. Btw, it has been about 11 months since he promised to release his full military records....

They demand that the troops come home now, the military is broken, Iraq is unwinnable, blah blah,...but when it came to "put up or shut up", the vote was 403 to 3. They're demoralizing American troops for purely partisan purposes.

They even gave a radical like Michael Moore a choice seat (right beside former prez Jimmy Carter) at their Democratic National Convention. Why?! Do they live in such a bubble that they think Moore plays well in mainstream America?

Now they're running around screaming about Bush's "illegal spying" on

Americans suspected of having contact with Islamic terrorist groups. First, it is not illegal. Second, Clinton and even the weak Jimmy Carter did the exact same thing. Do you really think that is a good message to send to the American public?

"We're not going to spy on people who we suspect of having contact with Islamic terrorists. Do we have your vote?"

Until they get serious about national security (they are at war), and purge their party of those "progressive" extremists who have gained power, they will never win the White House - or get control of Congress.

There were 5 completely black (no markings...Canadian, US or whatever) attack helicopters flying over Saskatoon--mostly around the Univeristy of Saskatchewan--on Sept 12, 2001. I phoned my friend (who used to be in the military) and asked if those were Canadian attack helicopters. He said definitely not. He talked to his Dad later (a career military man--still in the military). His Dad knew about them, but couldn't (code for not allowed to) tell his son whose copters they were. His son and myself suspect that they were US attack copters protecting the massive chemical food research dept at the U of S. Did CSIS get a tip and called in the US?

One thing I like about Bush is that he does seem to want to protect the country from attacks from Islamic terrorists. I also believe that he has steely resolve when it comes to that. I think "the bad guys" know that too...guys like Khaddafi who got out of the WMD-making biz a few days after Saddam was pulled out of that hole. Remember when one of Uday Hussein's bodyguards relayed a conversation he had with Uday? I'm paraphrasing:

I wasn't worried much about Clinton, but I think that Bush guy means business.

That's why I fret about our depleted military. Everybody has different priorities, but I am amazed at how many Canadians seem to think that govt-run daycare centres, gay marriage, and Kyoto are the most important things in the election. Oh yeah, and maybe throw a few bucks into the military.

I want a stronger military to defend me, my family, and my country--which includes you--from Islamic fanatics.

Why is a decent man like Joe Lieberman basically ignored? Does it have anything to do with the well-documented anti-semitism from the progressive left?

Why do "progressive" sites like DU, Kos, and The Nation magazine/website attract more readers than decent liberal writers like Kevin Drum of the Washington Monthly...or Ezra Klein (Pandagon has went to shit since he left)...or Jeff Jarvis....or magazines/websites like The New Republic...or Matthew Ygleisas..or whatever his name is...<<< the guy with the last name that I can never spell correctly.

[speaker]

The reason the Conseravtive dropped the word from their party is:

Progressive Conservative = oxymoron.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I chuckled when I first read that, unfortunately I think the reason the conservative alliance didn't want it in there is that they definitely didn't want to be associated with anything progressive.

but the first thing that hit me is that if progressive conservative = oxymoron, and you remove progressive do you also remove oxy?

[August1991]

The word "progressive" as it was attached to the Conservative Party of Canada between 1942 and, I guess, 2002 has a troubled history. You can read about it here.

In the US, the use of the word progressive in a political party is even more confusing. (Read here.)

In all cases though, I think North American politicians have adopted the word "progressive" because it implies something modern or new or good. (I find it mildly ironic that the Left, which normally eschews consumerism, would fall back on rank marketing to choose a label for its movement.)

[I Miss Trudeau]

(I find it mildly ironic that the Left, which normally eschews consumerism, would fall back on rank marketing to choose a label for its movement.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I suppose if you think that marketing is necessarily connected to consumerism, it might seem ironic. That seems absurd to me, but I suppose it gave you another chance to talk about "the Left" like the monolithic entity that it isn't.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear August1991,

In all cases though, I think North American politicians have adopted the word "progressive" because it implies something modern or new or good.

Indeed, I believe it has been used to connote 'better and more modern ways of doing the same things', rather than meaning change, ala liberalism.

(I find it mildly ironic that the Left, which normally eschews consumerism, would fall back on rank marketing to choose a label for its movement.)

It isn't all about getting the opiate to the masses, or whether or not you give them a choice. Ultimately they will always choose. It is all about controlling the opiates, or, weaning the masses off.

[Montgomery Burns]

I think the leftists who call themself "progressives" are trying to deceive the public again by renaming themselves. They used to call themselves liberals, but that word usually has a negative feel to it these days. Todays liberals are mostly socialists; they've ruined that word.

The people calling themselves progressives also seem to be the extreme-type of the left. They also come across as intolerant and angry. And they love their "causes" and protests. They have a low tolerance for different opinions or views. If you don't "toe the line", you are shunned, or if on a discussion forum or weblog, quickly banned. It's all lock-step stuff, living in a bubble, and then utter shock when, at election time, the public rejects them.

Does anybody remember studying Classic Liberalism in University? It doesn't resemble today's liberals.

[I Miss Trudeau]

Does anybody remember studying Classic Liberalism in University?  It doesn't resemble today's liberals.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, of course not. There aren't very many centuries old political or philosophical ideals that are alive and well today.

[Black Dog]

What is the dictionary version of progressive, or what is "progressive" code for?

Progressive is code for socialist moonbats.

So sayeth the moonbat....

Really, for a "Canadian small business owner", you sure spend an inordinate amount of time cruising U.S. lefty web sites for fodder for your spittle-flecked screeds.

Now, to the sane:

I think North American politicians have adopted the word "progressive" because it implies something modern or new or good.

Partially that and partially because of the systematic demonization of the term "liberal" (which itself mutated from its original meaning, which I'm sure you're familiar with).

Back to the kook..

They also come across as intolerant and angry. And they love their "causes" and protests. They have a low tolerance for different opinions or views. 

Freud had a term for this. It's called "projection".

If you don't "toe the line", you are shunned, or if on a discussion forum or weblog, quickly banned. It's all lock-step stuff, living in a bubble, and then utter shock when, at election time, the public rejects them.

Yeah right. There's no evidence to indicate you are capable of rational discourse or actual discussion. And if you can't understand why people would be intoleratnt of some asshat coming into their community and tellling them what a bunch of terrorist-loving hatemongers they are, then you're even dumber than you come off (no mean feat, that).

[scribblet]

MB beat me to it, I was going to say its code for left wing. I've never read DU don't have a link, don't want to either, but I have cruised on rabble, and that site is definitely on the 'moonbat' side, they allow swearing and personal attacks. The standard operating procedure seems to be calling people bigots and trolls if you don't agree with them.

However, I came to this site because it is well run and seemed to be free of that kind of thing, but there seems to some of it creeping in these days.

Happy New year

[speaker]

MB beat me to it, I was going to say its code for left wing. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that this is essentially correct as far as it goes. Progressives were the left wing of the Conservative movement. The Red Tories put up a pretty good fight trying to keep the PC party from becoming totally irrelevant and completely out of touch. Unfortunately there weren't enough people willing to put up with the ultra right within the party.

There's another thread on here that describes Harper as being just to the right of centre, this is probably true within the conservative party. If Progressive has been liberated from the conservative party I suspect that these wild and crazy "moonbats" are still to the right of the political spectrum, but likely close enough to centre to understand that there is more to life than tax cuts.

[Black Dog]

I think that this is essentially correct as far as it goes. Progressives were the left wing of the Conservative movement. The Red Tories put up a pretty good fight trying to keep the PC party from becoming totally irrelevant and completely out of touch. Unfortunately there weren't enough people willing to put up with the ultra right within the party.

There's another thread on here that describes Harper as being just to the right of centre,  this is probably true within the conservative party. If Progressive has been liberated from the conservative party I suspect that these wild and crazy "moonbats" are still to the right of the political spectrum, but likely close enough to centre to understand that there is more to life than tax cuts.

Wrong. Today's progressive is yesterday's liberal. Now, what that means depends on the individual (labels are such tricky creatures).

[speaker]

Wrong.  Today's progressive is yesterday's liberal. Now, what that means depends on the individual (labels are such tricky creatures).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Could be I'm showing my age, or my bitterness about the loss of Progressive in progessive conservative. I understand that you think it applies to liberals now. I guess the next question is ,, Is there room for liberals, progressives, in the LIBERAL party?

[August1991]

Wrong.  Today's progressive is yesterday's liberal. Now, what that means depends on the individual (labels are such tricky creatures).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Could be I'm showing my age, or my bitterness about the loss of Progressive in progessive conservative. I understand that you think it applies to liberals now. I guess the next question is ,, Is there room for liberals, progressives, in the LIBERAL party?

The perception is that the loss of the word "progressive" in the federal PCs is a reference to the loss of Scott Brison. That is, a loss of social liberality. (Liberality. Is that a word?)

I think that's unfair, and historically false. It was called the "Progressive Conservative Party" for reasons that have nothing to do with "social freedom".

Social freedom or "socially progressive" boils down to respect for gays and a woman's choice in abortion, I think. "Progressive", generally, seems to mean concern for the underdog.

Wrong. Today's progressive is yesterday's liberal. Now, what that means depends on the individual (labels are such tricky creatures).

This is one (small) example of how the Left mistakes symbols for reality. Liberal, progressive. Changing a name doesn't change the truth.

[speaker]

My perception has nothing to do with Scott Brison, but a great deal to do with the loss of social liberality. For argument sake you might google national progressive party of Canada. I would argue that changing the name does change the truth. The CCF does not exist now, nor do it's original ideals. The combination Progressive Conservative Party does not exist any more, or the Reform, Alliance, Progressives, now we have only the Conservatives which this party becomes each time it eats it's own arms in an effort to get itself elected into power.

Each time it gets to power another protest party has to form because of the betrayal of the decent people who got tricked into supporting the old power base that controls the Conservative party. When will they ever learn.

[Guest eureka]

Not the "symbols for reality" again, August. That is the preserve of the Right not the Left. Symbols, myths ,appeals to tradition and so on are all the armoury of traditional conservatism.

The Left has always been the side of rationality. Too much so.

[Black Dog]

This is one (small) example of how the Left mistakes symbols for reality. Liberal, progressive. Changing a name doesn't change the truth.

And what "turth" is that, o wise one?

[August1991]

This is one (small) example of how the Left mistakes symbols for reality. Liberal, progressive. Changing a name doesn't change the truth.

And what "turth" is that, o wise one?

Discovering an old thread hanging is like discovering a nail on a cabinet.

In teh US, the word "liberal" has negative connotations and it's not a vote-getter. So, American liberals now call themselves "progressives". In Canada, the NDP used to call themselves "social democrats" or even "socialists" but those words are now politically impossible, and somehow old-fashioned - so the NDP is now known as "progressive".

The word "progressive" has yet to be debased (but I suspect it will be).

The Left believes that if the name or symbol changes, somehow the reality will change too. The Left believes propaganda (symbols) can change the world (reality).

The Left's greatest confusion is in economics. The Left typically thinks of money as wealth when it is merely a symbol of wealth.

[JerrySeinfeld]

i'll add my two cents:

progressive is code for: do what feels good, and tolerate that which may be too much work to stand up against.

this is why so many hollywood types are "progressive". because it's easy, it's popular, it provides immediate gratification and doesn't require much thought.

think about things like naturopathic medicine. it all sounds good doesn't it? but when you think logically it doesn't make sense to let people push all kinds of remedies with absolutely NO testing or control. this is a prime example of "progressive" people neglecting to challenge new ideas or thoughts before black cheque accepting everything new, as good.

plus, who wants to be that mean old codger against the newest, hippest thing in hollywood?

most people would rather go with what "feels good", then dub the whole movement "progressive".

It's tricky, but if you think about it, its pretty darned accurate.

[tml12]

This is one (small) example of how the Left mistakes symbols for reality. Liberal, progressive. Changing a name doesn't change the truth.

And what "turth" is that, o wise one?

Discovering an old thread hanging is like discovering a nail on a cabinet.

In teh US, the word "liberal" has negative connotations and it's not a vote-getter. So, American liberals now call themselves "progressives". In Canada, the NDP used to call themselves "social democrats" or even "socialists" but those words are now politically impossible, and somehow old-fashioned - so the NDP is now known as "progressive".

The word "progressive" has yet to be debased (but I suspect it will be).

The Left believes that if the name or symbol changes, somehow the reality will change too. The Left believes propaganda (symbols) can change the world (reality).

The Left's greatest confusion is in economics. The Left typically thinks of money as wealth when it is merely a symbol of wealth.

I think August just nailed that one down...good post.

[BubberMiley]

The Left typically thinks of money as wealth when it is merely a symbol of wealth.

The Right typically thinks of natural resources as money when they are merely a symbol of...whoa, I'm too stoned to finish that one.