CdnFox Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/pro-beijing-groups-claim-credit-for-helping-olivia-chow-win-toronto-mayoralty?s=09 Two prominent community groups aligned with the Chinese government supplied numerous volunteers to the effort, a letter from one of the groups claims But evidence that the Fuqing Business Association and the Confederation of Toronto Chinese Canadian Organizations (CTCCO) worked to help get Chow elected on June 26 — even if their participation was not requested (or, arguably, needed) — raises further questions about the involvement of Beijing and its local allies in Canadian politics. Leaving aside the fact you probably shouldn't call your org the fuquing business association, this is getting more and more concerning. Now - if they didnt' spend a penny that's one thing but i bet they DID spend cash to encourage people and recruit people and so on. If that's not declared thats not ok. We desperately need that foreign agent registry Trudeau is refusing to put forward. 2 Quote There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
Guest Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, CdnFox said: fuquing Am hoping that's pronounced foo-king. Typically is in China. Nonetheless, horrible name, and wouldn't be surprised if she did get help. That definitely would explain Trudeau's excitement in working with her. Quote
CdnFox Posted July 10, 2023 Author Report Posted July 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, Perspektiv said: Am hoping that's pronounced foo-king. Only by the scots i'm afraid. 1 Quote There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
ExFlyer Posted July 11, 2023 Report Posted July 11, 2023 We have given the Chinese the perfect way to mess with our elections. We are so scared of Chinese interference all they have to do is whisper they support someone and we go into a panic. LOL Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
CdnFox Posted July 11, 2023 Author Report Posted July 11, 2023 1 hour ago, ExFlyer said: We have given the Chinese the perfect way to mess with our elections. We are so scared of Chinese interference all they have to do is whisper they support someone and we go into a panic. LOL Yeah. And if we don't go into a panic then they just mess with it the old fashioned way - with money and extortion Either way they win. It's a real problem because while i believe you were being tongue in cheek a little you were also dead right. We have no faith that our elections are safe from the Chinese interfering and we can't trust anyone who gets connected to that. We need the gov't to restore trust in our systems. That means DOING a proper investigation which they've refused so far AND passing laws immediately to prevent that kind of behavior and taking steps to assure canadians that outside gov'ts are not able to substantially interfere. Because right now without that a lot of people will look at Chow as 'questionable' or illegitimate. Probably unfairly. And that undermines our entire democracy. Quote There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
ExFlyer Posted July 11, 2023 Report Posted July 11, 2023 Just now, CdnFox said: Yeah. And if we don't go into a panic then they just mess with it the old fashioned way - with money and extortion Either way they win. It's a real problem because while i believe you were being tongue in cheek a little you were also dead right. We have no faith that our elections are safe from the Chinese interfering and we can't trust anyone who gets connected to that. We need the gov't to restore trust in our systems. That means DOING a proper investigation which they've refused so far AND passing laws immediately to prevent that kind of behavior and taking steps to assure canadians that outside gov'ts are not able to substantially interfere. Because right now without that a lot of people will look at Chow as 'questionable' or illegitimate. Probably unfairly. And that undermines our entire democracy. Lets be real and with reality. The Chinese are not the only country, group, organization that is trying to influence candidates in our elections but hey, they are easy to accuse. The Chinese have now found out how to manage subterfuge even easier. They do not have to do a thing, just say (or leak) that they are and we go into a tailspin. Just look at the Chow situation... did they or didn't they? Makes no matter, they just leaked something and everything is in doubt. As for passing laws... do you honestly think China or any country, group or organization is going to say "Oh Canada has a law so we best stay away? LOL As I have said before and will say again, a Public inquiry will be big, fat, time consuming and expensive and destined for an archive somewhere. If anyone thinks we can pass a law or make rules in Canada to prevent clandestine efforts of foreign (or domestic) electoral interference then they live in dreamland. Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
Moonbox Posted July 11, 2023 Report Posted July 11, 2023 (edited) We can pass laws, or at the very least set up systems, to mitigate their effect, no? Say whatever you want about how much or how little the Chinese influenced our elections, Trudeau's handling of the issue thus far is a good way for him to lose the next election, even against a shrill like Poilievre. Edited July 11, 2023 by Moonbox Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
CdnFox Posted July 11, 2023 Author Report Posted July 11, 2023 8 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: The Chinese are not the only country, group, organization that is trying to influence candidates in our elections but hey, they are easy to accuse. Because they're the only ones who've been caught at it. And because they actually did something substantial. If you're being "real", you won't just pretend that didn't happen. What other country did that? Show me some evidence and i'll be just as pissed at them. Quote As for passing laws... do you honestly think China or any country, group or organization is going to say "Oh Canada has a law so we best stay away? LOL Yeah. It works. IT's worked in other countries. Right now if they get caught there is nothing that Canada can do. They can't even really kick them out of the country. You can expel a diplomat or two, that's it, So - there's no reason for them not to do it agressively. BUT - with laws in place if they get caught they get arrested and tried. It's VERY embarrasing for the chinese (or whomever), they don't want to risk their people being locked up, and public opinion will turn against them in that country. So - they are MUCH MUCH more cautious. It's like any law. It doesn't eliminate the behavior but it reduces it. Quote As I have said before and will say again, Typical liberal - anything to protect the beloved leader. This is the fact - you CAN pass laws that make a difference, other countries HAVE done so and it DID make a difference, and a public enquiry HELPS RESTORE CONFIDENCE - whether it gathers dust or not after. And Confidence is something we're lacking. Your solution seems to be "just ignore it and let the chinese continue to help the liberal party if they want". Yeah - sorry, but most Canadians aren't ok with that. And i doubt you'd be saying that if it were the CPC that was getting the help. 1 Quote There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
ExFlyer Posted July 11, 2023 Report Posted July 11, 2023 (edited) 41 minutes ago, CdnFox said: Because they're the only ones who've been caught at it. And because they actually did something substantial. If you're being "real", you won't just pretend that didn't happen. What other country did that? Show me some evidence and i'll be just as pissed at them. Yeah. It works. IT's worked in other countries. Right now if they get caught there is nothing that Canada can do. They can't even really kick them out of the country. You can expel a diplomat or two, that's it, So - there's no reason for them not to do it agressively. BUT - with laws in place if they get caught they get arrested and tried. It's VERY embarrasing for the chinese (or whomever), they don't want to risk their people being locked up, and public opinion will turn against them in that country. So - they are MUCH MUCH more cautious. It's like any law. It doesn't eliminate the behavior but it reduces it. Typical liberal - anything to protect the beloved leader. This is the fact - you CAN pass laws that make a difference, other countries HAVE done so and it DID make a difference, and a public enquiry HELPS RESTORE CONFIDENCE - whether it gathers dust or not after. And Confidence is something we're lacking. Your solution seems to be "just ignore it and let the chinese continue to help the liberal party if they want". Yeah - sorry, but most Canadians aren't ok with that. And i doubt you'd be saying that if it were the CPC that was getting the help. Your contradiction is funny. "the only ones who've been caught at it". and "What other country did that? Show me some evidence" so clearly, no other country, group or organization has been caught yet. LOL So, with laws, you are going to arrest China?? C'mon dude, how stupid is that statement LOL You gonna take China to court?? And win?? And then what?? They gonna lock up the localrChinese restaurant owner?? LOL You cannot embarrass China. Do you truly think you can?? They turn things around with their propaganda as they do now and you are the one looking foolish. If the laws are not effective, how can it reduce behaviours. We have laws against robbery, drug use, drug trafficking, speeding and on and on and on... reduced?? I protect no one. Stupidity has not political boundaries. Lets remember that it was Harper that signed Canada to a 31 year FIPA agreement with China giving China access anything it want in Canada. Canada sold itself down the Yangtze River. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada-China_Promotion_and_Reciprocal_Protection_of_Investments_Agreement OK, what other countries and how much difference? As you so succinctly put is "Show me some evidence". I never once anytime anywhere was pro Chinese. All our governments have kowtowed to China. Cons and libs alike have sold this country to China. Edited July 11, 2023 by ExFlyer Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
Nefarious Banana Posted July 11, 2023 Report Posted July 11, 2023 The Communist Chinese are entrenched in Canada. Trudeau is enthralled with their type of government control, and won't lift a finger to take them on. Sad to see this country lose its backbone. We have a fool at the helm, and the country looks foolish too. The Chinese communists are here to stay. 1 Quote
eyeball Posted July 11, 2023 Report Posted July 11, 2023 48 minutes ago, Moonbox said: We can pass laws, or at the very least set up systems, to mitigate their effect, no? No. SNC Lavalin proved it in the face of Harper's Transparency and Accountability Act. Couple this with the fact there is so much partisan resistance to transparency, there's nothing at all that can be done. Best to just let it go, let it go, LET IT GO! Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
CdnFox Posted July 11, 2023 Author Report Posted July 11, 2023 54 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: Your contradiction is funny. "the only ones who've been caught at it". and "What other country did that? Show me some evidence" so clearly, no other country, group or organization has been caught yet. LOL Yeah - that's not what a 'contradiction' is. A contradiction would be if i said "here IS some evidence others have been caught at it'. If i say nobody has and also say have you got any evidence to the contrary then that's more like confirmation. Yesh. I exect to have to explain that kind of stuff to robosmith or eyeball - c'mon man step it up. Quote So, with laws, you are going to arrest China?? You mean chinese operatives in Canada, which is what we're talking about? Foreign agent registry laws are great for that. They work well. You're trying to argue that something will be ineffective that has already proven to be very effective elsewhere. That's going to be a losing fight i think. Quote We have laws against robbery, drug use, drug trafficking, speeding and on and on and on... reduced?? Yes. Reduced. And as we have seen, when we don't enforce them then the activity climbs. If there were NO speeding laws people would speed more than they do. It's not complex. Quote Lets remember that it was Harper that signed Canada to a 31 year FIPA agreement with China giving China access anything it want in Canada. Lets remember that isn't true and is kind of a stupid thing to say.' In no way does FIPA provide "access to anything they want" in the slightest. And it DEFINITELY doesn't allow them to interfere with our elections with illegal financing or coercion or extortion. What the hell is wrong with you this morning? You are so off your game it isn't funny. You usually make WAY more sense than this. If you're just having a tough morning or something lets just agree to disagree and move on. Quote There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
CdnFox Posted July 11, 2023 Author Report Posted July 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Moonbox said: We can pass laws, or at the very least set up systems, to mitigate their effect, no? Well of course we can, and fact is 'mitigation' is really all laws do at the best of times. They reduce the problem and lessen it's effect. ANd it's not like this hasn't been considered and done elsewhere. We're not talking about hypothetical stuff here. Quote Say whatever you want about how much or how little the Chinese influenced our elections, Trudeau's handling of the issue thus far is a good way for him to lose the next election, even against a shrill like Poilievre. It certainly isn't going to help him, that's for sure. But in a bigger picture this is causing people to lose faith in more than just federal elections. We've already seen it pop up with people questioning city elections and guaranteed it'll be provincial at some point - we have to restore faith in the gov't and democratic process on all levels. If we don't and people have no faith in their gov't it tends to end badly. Quote There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
ExFlyer Posted July 11, 2023 Report Posted July 11, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, CdnFox said: Yeah - ... .... lets just agree to disagree and move on. I have. Edited July 11, 2023 by ExFlyer Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
eyeball Posted July 11, 2023 Report Posted July 11, 2023 7 minutes ago, CdnFox said: ... we have to restore faith in the gov't and democratic process on all levels. If we don't and people have no faith in their gov't it tends to end badly. Gosh, you're so woke! I wish I could have woke up this way...like decades ago or something. 1 Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted July 11, 2023 Report Posted July 11, 2023 14 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: I have. You've let it go. I'm trying, it seems to get easier the older I get. You must be ancient. 1 Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
CdnFox Posted July 11, 2023 Author Report Posted July 11, 2023 12 minutes ago, eyeball said: Gosh, you're so woke! I wish I could have woke up this way...like decades ago or something. LOL - having faith in teh gov't is the OPPOSITE of woke The woke people want the gov't brought down it's not even 10:30 - i thought we agreed you woudln't be stupid till at least noon? 8 minutes ago, eyeball said: You've let it go. I'm trying, it seems to get easier the older I get. You must be ancient. You'd have to have a grasp of the concept in order to let it go..... that's not likely to happen Quote There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
eyeball Posted July 11, 2023 Report Posted July 11, 2023 36 minutes ago, CdnFox said: You'd have to have a grasp of the concept What this concept you're talking about? Interference, woke, transparency... What exactly? 1 Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
ExFlyer Posted July 11, 2023 Report Posted July 11, 2023 3 minutes ago, eyeball said: What this concept you're talking about? Interference, woke, transparency... What exactly? Whichever one allows him to argue with you more LOL 1 Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
CdnFox Posted July 11, 2023 Author Report Posted July 11, 2023 22 minutes ago, eyeball said: What this concept you're talking about? Interference, woke, transparency... What exactly? That was in response to you - are you saying you don't know what YOU"RE talking about? 19 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: Whichever one allows him to argue with you more LOL I thought we agreed you were done being stupid for the day Quote There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
eyeball Posted July 11, 2023 Report Posted July 11, 2023 10 minutes ago, CdnFox said: That was in response to you - are you saying you don't know what YOU"RE talking about? No, you're saying you don't. Well you do, but you're just pretending you don't. 1 Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
CdnFox Posted July 11, 2023 Author Report Posted July 11, 2023 5 minutes ago, eyeball said: No, you're saying you don't. I haven't said any such thing So you didn't know what you were talking about then LOL - well at least i do expect this level of dumb from you. Quote There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
Moonbox Posted July 11, 2023 Report Posted July 11, 2023 15 minutes ago, CdnFox said: I haven't said any such thing Yes you did. You brought up "the concept", but then wouldn't explain what you were referring to hen asked. 15 minutes ago, CdnFox said: So you didn't know what you were talking about then LOL - well at least i do expect this level of dumb from you. Speaking of dumb, nobody derails his own threads like you do. ? 1 Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
ExFlyer Posted July 11, 2023 Report Posted July 11, 2023 1 hour ago, CdnFox said: That was in response to you - are you saying you don't know what YOU"RE talking about? I thought we agreed you were done being stupid for the day Wasn't talking to you. Was forewarning some else about you and you did as I suspected. LOL Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
CdnFox Posted July 11, 2023 Author Report Posted July 11, 2023 @Moonbox Quote Yes you did. You brought up "the concept", but then wouldn't explain what you were referring to hen asked. No, he did. He literally said he was trying to let it go. If you're going to follow me around like a puppy could you at least be less stupid than the guy you're pretending to defend? Quote Speaking of dumb, nobody derails his own threads like you do. ? That would be you and Eyeball And it's pretty common of you to do so whenever your beloved leader Trudeau is in trouble. U and X Flyer and eyeball and to a lesser degree robosmith always dive in head first when trudeau is looking bad. It's like your cheezy attempt at cancel culture Just now, ExFlyer said: Wasn't talking to you. Didn't say you were. I said i thought you were done being stupid for the day. I guess not - please carry on 1 Quote There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
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