Chicago, Montana & Portland, Oregon

[August1991]

I recently travelled by train from Chicago to Portland. I stopped in Montana.

IMHO, as a Canadian, what Fox News says about Chicago and Portland is false. In Chicago, I walked downtown to the lake. Chicago is similar to Toronto (both are on lakes, three-sided cities) but Chicago has broad clean avenues. Toronto has narrow streets, and an overhead roadway blocking the way to the lake. Toronto has a greater mix of people; in Chicago, everyone was largely white - tourists.

Portland? Everyone is very rich. I walked safely on many downtown streets (as in Chicago). In Portland, there is a Mount Royal  park like in Montreal - except there are houses in the park, on the side of the mountain! The cars are Porsches.

My understanding of Portland: several billion people around the planet have bought an iPhone: $1000. About $50 goes to people in China, about $950 goes to people in northern California. By buying an iPhone, you have made a few people millionaires - and they now live in Portland.

Would I live in Portland? Chicago? No.

In Portland, there were no local coffee shops. No restaurants. This Covid pandemic means everyone works at home. IOW, no one lives in the centre.

======

Riding on the Amtrak train and elsewhere, I had chats with various Americans. You are largely good people, good neigbours, I noted nevertheless that Trump-supporters, people proud of America, are shy to show their colours. Even in Montana - you were Canadian in your deference.

I recall several times people saying to me: "Our train system is backward." Or, "Our public system is not as developed.

=====

You Americans have a serious divide. As a foreigner, when I met an American - merely looking at the person - I could predict on what side the person was.

In Portland, I described to Americans Montreal and its linguistic divide. Ironically, Americans were incredulous.

[August1991]

BTW, I ate in several restaurants along the way. Never again.

I will save my money for travel to Italy or local places in Montreal.

In America, your expensive places use too much butter and too much salt. And they don't understand bread. Better to eat at McDonalds or be invited.

=====

I have a theory about food when abroad. Eat what local people usually eat. 

[NYLefty]

55 minutes ago, August1991 said:

BTW, I ate in several restaurants along the way. Never again.

I will save my money for travel to Italy or local places in Montreal.

In America, your expensive places use too much butter and too much salt. And they don't understand bread. Better to eat at McDonalds or be invited.

=====

I have a theory about food when abroad. Eat what local people usually eat. 

Food and drink in Germany, Austria, Switzerland are top notch and sitting in outdoor cafe's you get great scenery to boot. Munich my favorite. 

[Rebound]

“In Portland, there were no local coffee shops.”

Insane. Portland has more coffee shops and roasters than you can count. 

[robosmith]

13 hours ago, August1991 said:

I recently travelled by train from Chicago to Portland. I stopped in Montana.

IMHO, as a Canadian, what Fox News says about Chicago and Portland is false. In Chicago, I walked downtown to the lake. Chicago is similar to Toronto (both are on lakes, three-sided cities) but Chicago has broad clean avenues. Toronto has narrow streets, and an overhead roadway blocking the way to the lake. Toronto has a greater mix of people; in Chicago, everyone was largely white - tourists.

Portland? Everyone is very rich. I walked safely on many downtown streets (as in Chicago). In Portland, there is a Mount Royal  park like in Montreal - except there are houses in the park, on the side of the mountain! The cars are Porsches.

My understanding of Portland: several billion people around the planet have bought an iPhone: $1000. About $50 goes to people in China, about $950 goes to people in northern California. By buying an iPhone, you have made a few people millionaires - and they now live in Portland.

Would I live in Portland? Chicago? No.

In Portland, there were no local coffee shops. No restaurants. This Covid pandemic means everyone works at home. IOW, no one lives in the centre.

======

Riding on the Amtrak train and elsewhere, I had chats with various Americans. You are largely good people, good neigbours, I noted nevertheless that Trump-supporters, people proud of America, are shy to show their colours. Even in Montana - you were Canadian in your deference.

I recall several times people saying to me: "Our train system is backward." Or, "Our public system is not as developed.

=====

You Americans have a serious divide. As a foreigner, when I met an American - merely looking at the person - I could predict on what side the person was.

In Portland, I described to Americans Montreal and its linguistic divide. Ironically, Americans were incredulous.

If you didn't see black people in Chicago, your didn't visit their neighborhoods. AKA, NOT downtown. Take the subway South. It's ONLY a few miles.

[impartialobserver]

I have had a similar impression of Portland (as well as other cities). FOX news and internet forum posters always exaggerate the negatives and make it seem like they do not have a few bad neighborhoods but rather it encompasses the entire city or metro. 

I was in NYC in August 2022 and I did not see the filth, feces, trash, etc that everybody on other forums said I would see. While it was quite congested and very different from Reno.. it was not all that bad. 

[Rebound]

Portland, Oregon is a stunningly beautiful city.  More public parks and more miles of walking trails than any other city in America.  Beautiful neighborhoods with a true small neighborhood community, independent shops, great dining… it’s a great place to live, if you can handle all the rain.  
 

Yes, there are a lot of homeless people there. And I’ve been in Portland in winter… it cannot possibly be any fun at all to be homeless there in winter!!! And liberal people? Yes, derr…. It’s a city so there will be liberal, very liberal, Uber-liberal people.  Then again, I’ve been to Salt Lake City, and there, in the Capitol city of Mormon land, there is a Harvey Milk Street.  
 

Oregon is fabulously beautiful.  So glad the Republicans are foolishly afraid to come.  

[Hodad]

3 hours ago, Rebound said:

Portland, Oregon is a stunningly beautiful city.  More public parks and more miles of walking trails than any other city in America.  Beautiful neighborhoods with a true small neighborhood community, independent shops, great dining… it’s a great place to live, if you can handle all the rain.  
 

Yes, there are a lot of homeless people there. And I’ve been in Portland in winter… it cannot possibly be any fun at all to be homeless there in winter!!! And liberal people? Yes, derr…. It’s a city so there will be liberal, very liberal, Uber-liberal people.  Then again, I’ve been to Salt Lake City, and there, in the Capitol city of Mormon land, there is a Harvey Milk Street.  
 

Oregon is fabulously beautiful.  So glad the Republicans are foolishly afraid to come.  

Eh. Five years ago Portland was a jewel of a city, an amazing place. We have a lot of history and connections in the area and I strongly considered moving there. It's currently broken. I don't mean it's all bad, or fifty square miles of hellscape or anything, but shine is off. The crime and homeless have exploded. You used to leave the airport and drive along the Columbia river. Now it's hard to see the river through the homeless RV shanty town lining the highway.

I really wouldn't consider moving there now. And again, not because it's utterly ruined. Much of what made Portland great is still there underneath the decay. But because the municipal government doesn't seem equipped to fix it. Their poor recovery is well documented at this point.

 

But yes, OP is way off base. The dining/foodie and coffee scene in Portland are still extraordinary. That's what Portland people do.

[Rebound]

51 minutes ago, Hodad said:

Eh. Five years ago Portland was a jewel of a city, an amazing place. We have a lot of history and connections in the area and I strongly considered moving there. It's currently broken. I don't mean it's all bad, or fifty square miles of hellscape or anything, but shine is off. The crime and homeless have exploded. You used to leave the airport and drive along the Columbia river. Now it's hard to see the river through the homeless RV shanty town lining the highway.

I really wouldn't consider moving there now. And again, not because it's utterly ruined. Much of what made Portland great is still there underneath the decay. But because the municipal government doesn't seem equipped to fix it. Their poor recovery is well documented at this point.

 

But yes, OP is way off base. The dining/foodie and coffee scene in Portland are still extraordinary. That's what Portland people do.

Yes, there are pockets of homelessness and there were lawless protests. But it is not a high crime city like New York, San Francisco or Chicago. I think it's a mistake to let these pockets of homelessness dissuade you from an utterly beautiful area. The people and nature are absolutely beautiful, and the social problems are confined to fairly small areas. If you go outside to Beaverton, Tigard, etc., all that is gone. 

[Hodad]

7 hours ago, Rebound said:

Yes, there are pockets of homelessness and there were lawless protests. But it is not a high crime city like New York, San Francisco or Chicago. I think it's a mistake to let these pockets of homelessness dissuade you from an utterly beautiful area. The people and nature are absolutely beautiful, and the social problems are confined to fairly small areas. If you go outside to Beaverton, Tigard, etc., all that is gone. 

Agreed, the suburbs are unchanged. It's the urb that took the hit. It was a wonderfully livable city center. Not so much anymore. Hopefully they can figure it out.

[Rebound]

Just now, Hodad said:

Agreed, the suburbs are unchanged. It's the urb that took the hit. It was a wonderfully livable city center. Not so much anymore. Hopefully they can figure it out.

Its portions of the urb. Really.  And Covid made it worse because lots of businesses shut down. 

[August1991]

On 6/14/2023 at 6:15 AM, Rebound said:

“In Portland, there were no local coffee shops.”

Insane. Portland has more coffee shops and roasters than you can count. 

Disagree.

I safely walked around.

I went to an eery empty commercial centre to buy Fried Rice.

====

As I walked in Portland (used its public trams), it struck me that this is the future.

[August1991]

On 6/14/2023 at 5:55 PM, robosmith said:

If you didn't see black people in Chicago, your didn't visit their neighborhoods. AKA, NOT downtown. Take the subway South. It's ONLY a few miles.

Along the way - in the diner car around North Dakota - a US federal bureaucrat made the same point.

====

His point was that south Chicago and west Chicago are problems.

Apparently, I was in North-East Chicago. Who knew.

Edited June 15, 2023 by August1991

[impartialobserver]

The primary reason that I have never seriously considering moving to Portland is housing cost. I could get a job there in my field (programming, data analysis) easily but the salary would not be enough to comfortably afford a house that would be close to the office (if that was needed at all). They are not as expensive as San Francisco but still quite pricey. On top of that, Oregon has the second highest property taxes in America. 

[August1991]

On 6/16/2023 at 11:37 AM, impartialobserver said:

The primary reason that I have never seriously considering moving to Portland is housing cost.

....

Compared to Montreal, I noted something.

In Portland, I was surprised by the houses in parks/apartment bldgs in good locations - but no one else nearby. NIMBY.

[impartialobserver]

On 6/17/2023 at 10:48 PM, August1991 said:

Compared to Montreal, I noted something.

In Portland, I was surprised by the houses in parks/apartment bldgs in good locations - but no one else nearby. NIMBY.

The American West is one of vastness and emptiness in comparison to the eastern parts of the US and Canada. I can be in the middle of nothing (no roads, no houses, no power lines, nada) in as little as 15 minutes. Two freeway exits east and take a left instead of a right and civilization ends. To make the connection... we can have NIMBY because of the open land and emptiness that is both part of the terrain and a selling point. 

[Guest]

On 6/14/2023 at 4:41 AM, August1991 said:

In Chicago, I walked downtown to the lake.

I think what you're saying is that the news misrepresents Chicago. 

The bulk of their murders occur on in their south side area.

I mean, I can honestly say I know Hong Kong inside and out, as not only did I visit tourist hot spots, but also wanted to see "the hood". 

I saw its best and worst, and even at the latter, it still was an insanely safe city. There isn't a city on this planet without a dark side.

I also got to see their homelessness issue in full sight, which includes their McRefugee issue, a term coined in Asia, to describe many who work, or in other ways are homeless, and stay at McDonald's overnight as the shame of sleeping on the streets would be too great. I knew I went too deep into the hood, when I saw rats the size of cats walking freely near trash. Something you just won't see in the richer areas.

I don't know. I visit every nook and cranny of a city. For me to say Hong Kong is very rich after visiting Victoria Peak only (an area that is so expensive that a millionaire would be too poor to live there--billionaires only), is not only incorrect, but literally negated 95% of the city.

Chicago isn't a dangerous city.

Its an incredibly segregated city, in that you have a predominantly minority based area that holds the bulk of their murder rates.

To say Fox was lying, is like saying your take is accurate 100% for the entirety of the city.

Ironically enough, you are decrying sensationalism, while only pointing out a mere percentile of a city like it was the entire thing.

[August1991]

On 6/20/2023 at 12:01 PM, Perspektiv said:

I think what you're saying is that the news misrepresents Chicago. 

The bulk of their murders occur on in their south side area.

===

On the train going through Wisconsin, when I described this: a guy told me that Chicago was a South and West problem. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, August1991 said:

On the train going through Wisconsin, when I described this: a guy told me that Chicago was a South and West problem. 

Some would say it's a Democrat and victimhood problem. All about perspective. 

[August1991]

9 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Some would say it's a Democrat and victimhood problem. All about perspective. 

As I learned, Chicago has four sides.

One is a lake.

Another is Indiana.

The third is Wisconsin.

====

Toronto also has four sides - but all three in the same jurisdiction.

[August1991]

On 6/15/2023 at 8:26 AM, Hodad said:

Eh. Five years ago Portland was a jewel of a city, an amazing place. We have a lot of history and connections in the area and I strongly considered moving there. It's currently broken. I don't mean it's all bad...

 

Some thirty years ago, I briefly drove by car through Portland. Very green trees

Now, I was there for a conference  - I left by plane.

=====

As in 1910 or so, there is a a fundamental divide as in 1990 or so.