Average Canadian house price rose to $716,000 in April — up by $100K since January

[CdnFox]

18 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

Do not know about Canada but the construction industry is having a difficult time hiring folks especially in the Western US. The pay is great but the younger crowd is opting for the office job, technology job, etc. instead of the strenuous but rewarding work of framing, drywall, concrete, stucco, electrical, etc. They are doing so because their dad, brother, uncle is physically broken down and they do not want to be that way. Keep in mind, that there are ways to not have the bad back and bad knees but that gets left out. They simply see construction as this industry where you toil in the heat or cold, end up physical broken down, and usually have no work from late Oct. to late Feb. 

Its an issue but one we could beat easily. our problems lie elsewhere and unfortunately it's more of a knot of issues than a single thread.  How we finance construction, how we tax properties during that process, the mechanics and costs and process just to get a project approved, and a number of other things all result in a situation where it will ALWAYS be necessary to build fewer homes than we need in a growing population, regardless of what that growth is.

[Dougie93]

7 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Its an issue but one we could beat easily. our problems lie elsewhere and unfortunately it's more of a knot of issues than a single thread.  How we finance construction, how we tax properties during that process, the mechanics and costs and process just to get a project approved, and a number of other things all result in a situation where it will ALWAYS be necessary to build fewer homes than we need in a growing population, regardless of what that growth is.

another limiting factor is the cost of public services, police, fire, utilities, etc

so just because there is an empty field somewhere

doesn't mean the infrastructure is available to build a massive residential development there

[impartialobserver]

18 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Its an issue but one we could beat easily. our problems lie elsewhere and unfortunately it's more of a knot of issues than a single thread.  How we finance construction, how we tax properties during that process, the mechanics and costs and process just to get a project approved, and a number of other things all result in a situation where it will ALWAYS be necessary to build fewer homes than we need in a growing population, regardless of what that growth is.

Builders can get the financing and while the permitting is expensive.. the main issue is that they do not have enough staff. That brings up the cost of labor. The cost of labor combined with the permits make building the low profit development untenable for builders. It also does not help that most of the builders here are from CA where the cost of living is even higher. 

Edited May 17, 2023 by impartialobserver

[Dougie93]

4 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

 building the low profit development untenable for builders.

why would any developer want to build a low profit development ?

without profit, there is no investment

[impartialobserver]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

why would any developer want to build a low profit development ?

without profit, there is no investment

folks complain that the only homes being built are luxury homes. No one is building the starter home.. low price therefore lower profit. Luxury home being one is 2500 + sq ft of living space, 3 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms, 3 car garage, and usually in a gated community. They start out in the range of 750K to 850K in Sparks, 900k in Reno, and 1.5 million in Tahoe. This prices out the locals and brings in the CA expat. This entails building fewer but more profitable homes. 

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, impartialobserver said:

folks complain that the only homes being built are luxury homes. No one is building the starter home.. low price therefore lower profit. Luxury home being one is 2500 + sq ft of living space, 3 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms, 3 car garage, and usually in a gated community. They start out in the range of 750K to 850K in Sparks, 900k in Reno, and 1.5 million in Tahoe. This prices out the locals and brings in the CA expat. This entails building fewer but more profitable homes. 

I don't think that is the problem in the Canadian market

the starter home is the condo, and those are being built like hotcakes here

in fact, a lot of Boomers who are holding the fully detached here, now want to downsize into condos

[impartialobserver]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

I don't think that is the problem in the Canadian market

the starter home is the condo, and those are being built like hotcakes here

in fact, a lot of Boomers who are holding the fully detached here, now want to downsize into condos

Another limiting factor in a lot of places out West is the terrain. Building on the side of a mountain can be done.. it just makes it expensive. We have some flat land here... 50 miles to the east and it looks like this

[Dougie93]

5 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

 in Reno, in Tahoe.

the thing to understand about Canada, is that the vast majority of it is uninhabitable wasteland

the population all lives in a narrow strip along the border

so if you are willing to go north, you can find cheap real estate

the problem therein however, is that you have moved away from the jobs

[Dougie93]

17 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

Another limiting factor in a lot of places out West is the terrain. Building on the side of a mountain can be done.. it just makes it expensive. We have some flat land here... 50 miles to the east and it looks like this

but Reno, in Canada, would be in the Northwest Territories

to understand the population distribution of Canada

imagine if nobody in America could live north of Texas

if 80% of the country is uninhabitable, real estate is that much more valuable

the three most expensive real estate markets are Canada, Sweden & New Zealand

Sweden & New Zealand are obviously tiny

but Canada is also tiny

when you factor in trying to fit 40 million people all right up against the border

and the vast majority of them really crammed in, between Windsor & Quebec City

if you want a job which would pay for a house here

you have to live right along the 401 highway

once you move out of commuting distance from the 401, the prices drop sharply

but very few people can afford to live that far away from the 401

Edited May 17, 2023 by Dougie93

[RedDog]

I recall Pierre Burton writing that only government could put in a railroad (for example) because no private venture could or would serve a strip of insignificant population 3,500 miles wide by 200 miles high.

[CdnFox]

49 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

another limiting factor is the cost of public services, police, fire, utilities, etc

so just because there is an empty field somewhere

doesn't mean the infrastructure is available to build a massive residential development there

Sure. infrastructure planning is also critical.  There's a mess of issues. Some - like that one- could actually be pretty simply resolved with a bit of planning but when you put it all together it's a complex mess that just holds us back.

[Dougie93]

5 minutes ago, RedDog said:

I recall Pierre Burton writing that only government could put in a railroad (for example) because no private venture could or would serve a strip of insignificant population 3,500 miles wide by 200 miles high.

Canadians used to live much further away from the border

used to be, Canadians lived in small towns in the middle of nowhere

but ever since America became Canada's market

ever since the Provinces stop trading with each other

each one instead trading almost exclusively with America

the population has all crashed down to the border

there is a line where the prices drop way off here in Southern Ontario

and that is the line where it is too far away from the border, where all the business are located

[CdnFox]

29 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

the thing to understand about Canada, is that the vast majority of it is uninhabitable wasteland

the population all lives in a narrow strip along the border

so if you are willing to go north, you can find cheap real estate

the problem therein however, is that you have moved away from the jobs

this is one of the reasons i keep saying we should push remote working.  If it became more prevelant to work remotely then more people would be able to work in areas where it's still afforedable and take the pressure off the major metros

 

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

Sure. infrastructure planning is also critical.  There's a mess of issues. Some - like that one- could actually be pretty simply resolved with a bit of planning but when you put it all together it's a complex mess that just holds us back.

I view governance in Canada as being inherently sclerotic

the Confederation is a failed state

which is no longer capable of solving even simple problems, never mind complex

[Dougie93]

4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

this is one of the reasons i keep saying we should push remote working.  If it became more prevelant to work remotely then more people would be able to work in areas where it's still afforedable and take the pressure off the major metros

ah, but, the sort of workers who have these work from home corporate jobs

they don't want to live in Thunder Bay

they want to live right outside Toronto, if not in Toronto

so they will not be solving the problem by evacuating to the north

[RedDog]

7 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I view governance in Canada as being inherently sclerotic

the Confederation is a failed state

which is no longer capable of solving even simple problems, never mind complex

I’ve thought much of my adult life that Canada is more like a realistic 4, 5 or 6 countries pretending to be one. We’ve all seen many breaking up of boarders in our lives to realize this is not likely a finished work. 

I suppose that’s why I’ve always been a deathly loyal Albertan with near zero care for the rest of the fake charade.

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, RedDog said:

I’ve thought much of my adult life that Canada is more like a realistic 4, 5 or 6 countries pretending to be one. We’ve all seen many breaking up of boarders in our lives to realize this is not likely a finished work. 

I suppose that’s why I’ve always been a deathly loyal Albertan with near zero care for the rest of the fake charade.

I don't think it dooms us

it's just that the government is mostly useless and at times even worse than useless

thus why the provinces don't actually rely on Canada for anything

all the provinces are now in confederation with America instead of with each other

[RedDog]

2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I don't think it dooms us

it's just that the government is mostly useless and at times even worse than useless

thus why the provinces don't actually rely on Canada for anything

all the provinces are now in confederation with America instead of with each other

In a sense, an act of future survival rather than “confederation”. Sad.

[Dougie93]

7 minutes ago, RedDog said:

 deathly loyal Albertan

Princess Louise Caroline Alberta, Duchess of Argyll, VA, CI, GCVO, GBE, RRC, GCStJ

Victoria Regina Imperatrix : Pro Patria

[CdnFox]

21 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I view governance in Canada as being inherently sclerotic

the Confederation is a failed state

which is no longer capable of solving even simple problems, never mind complex

The system is fine. It's the voter that's the problem.  If you're driving down the road and you fail to keep you hand on the wheel, you can hardly blame the car if you wind up stuck in the ditch at the next curve in the road.

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

The system is fine. It's the voter that's the problem.

the problem being that the voters no longer believe in nor follow the system

they either want a Post National State

or some kind of Nationalist Republic

both will be disasters

[RedDog]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

The system is fine. It's the voter that's the problem.  If you're driving down the road and you fail to keep you hand on the wheel, you can hardly blame the car if you wind up stuck in the ditch at the next curve in the road.

Speaking for myself only, I feel a neighbourly kinship far more with the people of Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Utah, Colorado, etc to any region of Canada - aside from maybe Saskatchewan. BC is more aligned with Washington and Oregon.

Pretending we’re the same “country” as the Atlantic provinces is utterly ridiculous. Never mind OntariOWE or PAYbec.

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, RedDog said:

Speaking for myself only, I feel a neighbourly kinship far more with the people of Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Utah, Colorado, etc to any region of Canada - aside from maybe Saskatchewan. BC is more aligned with Washington and Oregon.

Pretending we’re the same “country” as the Atlantic provinces is utterly ridiculous. Never mind OntariOWE or PAYbec.

only the monarchy holds Confederation together

because Canada is not a unified country and never was

only a monarch allows all these opposing cohorts to share a central bank & associated currency

[RedDog]

5 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

only the monarchy holds Confederation together

because Canada is not a unified country and never was

only a monarch allows all these opposing cohorts to share a central bank & associated currency

No question. My issue is the “management” and distribution of (extorted) wealth.

In my dreams, Alberta is in line for a World Court case for nearly a trillion dollars in restitution.

[RedDog]

Canada or whatever still existed would be bankrupted in one legal action.