Harper vows to cut GST to 5%

[normanchateau]

It definitely is surprising that the Conservatives have no interest in cutting personal or business taxes.

When did the Conservatives say that they have no interest in cutting personal or business taxes?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Conservatives have said they'll reduce the GST. If they also plan to cut personal or business taxes, they've not said so. This is why numerous economists have come out today against Harper's plan to cut the GST rather than corporate and personal taxes.

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They have said in the past that they would.

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So you're saying we should look at Harper's former utterances rather than his current utterances to know where he now stands?

Does this hold for his views on putting a firewall around Alberta?

Does this hold for his former views on health care?

Does this hold for his views on Atlantic Canadians?

[tml12]

It definitely is surprising that the Conservatives have no interest in cutting personal or business taxes.

When did the Conservatives say that they have no interest in cutting personal or business taxes?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Conservatives have said they'll reduce the GST. If they also plan to cut personal or business taxes, they've not said so. This is why numerous economists have come out today against Harper's plan to cut the GST rather than corporate and personal taxes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They have said in the past that they would.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you're saying we should look at Harper's former utterances rather than his current utterances to know where he now stands?

Does this hold for his views on putting a firewall around Alberta?

Does this hold for his former views on health care?

Does this hold for his views on Atlantic Canadians?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you want to know what both federal leaders said in the past, go to stephenharpersaid.ca and paulmartinsaid.ca if they are still active. Both major federal leaders, which means our next prime minister, have made gaffes that only true politicians can make. Judge from that...

[shoop]

What he is saying is it is very reasonable to believe the Conservatives will roll out further tax cuts as they lay out further policy announcements.

Are you going to stand by your 'liar' comments? Do you really feel the rules of the board don't apply to you?

So you're saying we should look at Harper's former utterances rather than his current utterances to know where he now stands?

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[normanchateau]

Are you going to stand by your 'liar' comments? Do you really feel the rules of the board don't apply to you? 

Are you saying that calling a politician a liar when he says something false violates the rules of the board but calling a politician corrupt or criminal when he has done nothing corrupt or criminal does not violate the rules of the board?

[Kiraly]

If you want to know what both federal leaders said in the past, go to stephenharpersaid.ca and paulmartinsaid.ca if they are still active.  Both major federal leaders, which means our next prime minister, have made gaffes that only true politicians can make.  Judge from that...

I'm not sure if those sites are still up.

Found a link to a blog on another message board....

...A La Derecha

Scroll down to Martin's hidden agenda.

Seems like Martin is quite the gymnast.

[shoop]

I haven't seen anyone make those claims as blatantly as you have. If they have they are breaking the rules of the board as well.

As the old saying goes normie - Two wrongs don't make a right.

Are you saying that calling a politician a liar when he says something false violates the rules of the board but calling a politician corrupt or criminal when he has done nothing corrupt or criminal does not violate the rules of the board? 

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[Rovik]

Hmmm...the GST

The GST, introduced by the Conservatives, Liberals promised to get rid of it in '93 and didn't, The Conservatives want to cut it down now.

Ok, what does this tell me? It tells me how idiotic the Cons and the Liberals are and to vote NDP.

[Shakeyhands]

I haven't seen anyone make those claims as blatantly as you have. If they have they are breaking the rules of the board as well.

As the old saying goes normie - Two wrongs don't make a right.

Are you saying that calling a politician a liar when he says something false violates the rules of the board but calling a politician corrupt or criminal when he has done nothing corrupt or criminal does not violate the rules of the board? 

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<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

but let me add right now that three rights do indeed make a left.....

[normanchateau]

I'm trying to decide if this GST announcement is another policy-on-the-fly that Stockwell Day was so notorious of doing.

One of Preston Manning's strengths is that his economic policies were well thought out and gradually developed. He had a problem with people like Harper. That's why he made Herb Grubel the Finance critic rather than Stephen Harper.

Harper is always flipflopping on issues particularly if it will get him more votes. Health care is a perfect example. He even acknowledged that he changed his position on health care for this very reason. See the following:

http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.php/20050430091919834

[normanchateau]

I'm trying to decide if this GST announcement is another policy-on-the-fly that Stockwell Day was so notorious of doing.

One of Preston Manning's strengths is that his economic policies were well thought out and gradually developed. He had a problem with people like Harper. That's why he made Herb Grubel the Finance critic rather than Stephen Harper.

Harper is always flipflopping on issues particularly if it will get him more votes. Health care is a perfect example. He even acknowledged that he changed his position on health care for this very reason. See the following:

http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.php/20050430091919834

[Guest eureka]

I owuld rather think that the proposal to cut the GST is the desperate one - or cynical playing to their support. It is not disputable that Income Tax cuts would be fairer and more beneficial to savings and investment. That is elementary.

Further, the GST cut does not help the poorest 20% or so at all. They have little spending beyond food and rent. This money should be going into social programs not tax cuts. It should be dedicated to the elimination of the poverty that has long been promised. And it should be going to alleviate some other problems such as the failings of the health system.

[shoop]

The poorest 20% would be helped far more by a cut in the GST than in the tax cuts proposed by the Liberals. Given that many of those people will receive little, if any help, in raising the level of the basic personal exemption.

By putting money into the hands of the people it creates a much more efficient way to deal with social problems than the mess that the Liberals have created in the last 13 years.

I owuld rather think that the proposal to cut the GST is the desperate one - or cynical playing to their support. It is not disputable that Income Tax cuts would be fairer and more beneficial to savings and investment. That is elementary.

Further, the GST cut does not help the poorest 20% or so at all. They have little spending beyond food and rent. This money should be going into social programs not tax cuts. It should be dedicated to the elimination of the poverty that has long been promised. And it should be going to alleviate some other problems such as the failings of the health system.

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[Canuck E Stan]

What most of you posting here seem to forget is this is an election.

The first thing a candidate must do is get your attention.

Harper did that, your pro/con discussions on the GST has created an interest in different types of tax cuts.

Some posters have made an assumption that this is a stupid useless cut that doesn't do much for the taxpayer.Some have come to assume that this is the conclusion for cut that Harper will make.

Wrong,impatient ones.

If you would read the news carefully you will see that Harper is not finished with cutting taxes.

Harper also told supporters in Mississauga, Ont., that more tax-cut pledges are on the way - setting the stage for taxes to become a major issue in the marathon eight-week campaign.

Tax-cut fever takes over federal election campaign

Unlike the Liberals who think making grand announcements(how many of you even remember what they were?)with surpluses we never knew were there, will get more votes, I think the conservatives are giving Canadians a chance to absorb their policies throughout the eight week campaign.I think this will get the Canadian public more in tune to compare the major parties and what their policies are.

As for the GST,remember the wise words of Eddie Shack:

"Take care of the pennies, and the dollars will take care of themselves"

[tml12]

What most of you posting here seem to forget is this is an election.

The first thing a candidate must do is get your attention.

Harper did that, your pro/con discussions on the GST has created an interest in different types of tax cuts.

Some posters have made an assumption that this is a stupid useless cut that doesn't do much for the taxpayer.Some have come to assume that this is the conclusion for cut that Harper will make.

Wrong,impatient ones.

If you would read the news carefully you will see that Harper is not finished with cutting taxes.

Harper also told supporters in Mississauga, Ont., that more tax-cut pledges are on the way - setting the stage for taxes to become a major issue in the marathon eight-week campaign.

Tax-cut fever takes over federal election campaign

Unlike the Liberals who think making grand announcements(how many of you even remember what they were?)with surpluses we never knew were there, will get more votes, I think the conservatives are giving Canadians a chance to absorb their policies throughout the eight week campaign.I think this will get the Canadian public more in tune to compare the major parties and what their policies are.

As for the GST,remember the wise words of Eddie Shack:

"Take care of the pennies, and the dollars will take care of themselves"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I still would like to know, electiontime or not, the relationship between the GST, social programs, and the opinions of Canadians on the relationship between the two.

[justcrowing]

The poorest 20% would be helped far more by a cut in the GST than in the tax cuts proposed by the Liberals. Given that many of those people will receive little, if any help, in raising the level of the basic personal exemption.

By putting money into the hands of the people it creates a much more efficient way to deal with social problems than the mess that the Liberals have created in the last 13 years.

I owuld rather think that the proposal to cut the GST is the desperate one - or cynical playing to their support. It is not disputable that Income Tax cuts would be fairer and more beneficial to savings and investment. That is elementary.

Further, the GST cut does not help the poorest 20% or so at all. They have little spending beyond food and rent. This money should be going into social programs not tax cuts. It should be dedicated to the elimination of the poverty that has long been promised. And it should be going to alleviate some other problems such as the failings of the health system.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cutting GST will help everyone. Rich or poor buy clothing; rich or poor purchase cars; rich or poor purchase homes or condo's, mobile homes; rich or poor purchase school supplies and medical supplies and on and on and on!!

Name me a country that has eliminated poverty? There will always be the drug addicted, the homeless; the welfare cases; the low income earners; single parents; and on goes the list. How would you deal with these and where would all this money come from other than higher taxation which would affect purchasing power and the cycle begins.

[August1991]

I owuld rather think that the proposal to cut the GST is the desperate one - or cynical playing to their support. It is not disputable that Income Tax cuts would be fairer and more beneficial to savings and investment. That is elementary.

eureka, you are missing the point. Canadians no longer believe any politician promising income tax cuts. It is hard to know what is cut or when. The GST is highly visible.

What most of you posting here seem to forget is this is an election.

The first thing a candidate must do is get your attention.

Harper did that, your pro/con discussions on the GST has created an interest in different types of tax cuts.

I agree.

Furthermore, this cut will cost about $4.5 billion in the first year. This is perfectly feasible within the bounds of the federal budget.

The issue here is credibility about something that is easy to understand and easy to verify. Chretien played this card in 1993 but then abused people's trust.

I still would like to know, electiontime or not, the relationship between the GST, social programs, and the opinions of Canadians on the relationship between the two.

For the federal government, there is no connection between GST and programme spending.

But tml you have raised a good question - perhaps the best question: What programmes (social or otherwise) do Canadians want the federal government to fund?

I think Layton, Harper and Duceppe could have a very interesting debate about that question. IMV, Martin, unfortunately, wouldn't participate honestly.

[lovecanada]

The poorest 20% would be helped far more by a cut in the GST than in the tax cuts proposed by the Liberals. Given that many of those people will receive little, if any help, in raising the level of the basic personal exemption.

By putting money into the hands of the people it creates a much more efficient way to deal with social problems than the mess that the Liberals have created in the last 13 years.

I owuld rather think that the proposal to cut the GST is the desperate one - or cynical playing to their support. It is not disputable that Income Tax cuts would be fairer and more beneficial to savings and investment. That is elementary.

Further, the GST cut does not help the poorest 20% or so at all. They have little spending beyond food and rent. This money should be going into social programs not tax cuts. It should be dedicated to the elimination of the poverty that has long been promised. And it should be going to alleviate some other problems such as the failings of the health system.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well an income tax cut for those who don't pay income tax..if they are the poorest 20% will not help them at all. Even a kid can understand why a reduction in the GST is going to save them money when they go to spend their allowance on a toy!

[Riverwind]

Well an income tax cut for those who don't pay income tax..if they are the poorest 20% will not help them at all. Even a kid can understand why a reduction in the GST is going to save them money when they go to spend their allowance on a toy!

People who don't pay income tax get the GST tax credit. This credit will go down if the GST is cut as a result poor people will likely end up losing if the GST is reduced. If we must have taxes then consumption should be taxed - not income. Since rich people consume more taxable items so they pay more GST. Poor people spend most of their money on no taxable items like rent and food and do not pay that much GST.

[shoop]

Why would the credit go down? That hasn't been mentioned by anyone.

People who don't pay income tax get the GST tax credit. This credit will go down if the GST is cut as a result poor people will likely end up losing if the GST is reduced. If we must have taxes then consumption should be taxed - not income. Since rich people consume more taxable items so they pay more GST. Poor people spend most of their money on no taxable items like rent and food and do not pay that much GST.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[lovecanada]

Well an income tax cut for those who don't pay income tax..if they are the poorest 20% will not help them at all. Even a kid can understand why a reduction in the GST is going to save them money when they go to spend their allowance on a toy!

People who don't pay income tax get the GST tax credit. This credit will go down if the GST is cut as a result poor people will likely end up losing if the GST is reduced. If we must have taxes then consumption should be taxed - not income. Since rich people consume more taxable items so they pay more GST. Poor people spend most of their money on no taxable items like rent and food and do not pay that much GST.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/quote

The credit might or might not go down, but even if it does, a reduction in the GST still helps the poorest people..RIGHT AT THE TILL. They will not have to wait to get that cheque. And seeing as I don't see many naked people on the street, poor or not you still have to buy clothes, maybe some toys, a TV, radio?

And was this your position when the Liberals wanted to get rid of the GST?

[Riverwind]

The credit might or might not go down, but even if it does, a reduction in the GST still helps the poorest people..RIGHT AT THE TILL. They will not have to wait to get that cheque.

Poor people buy inexpensive clothes and buy less frequently than middle class or the rich. They would save little on the GST reduction but the rich would save a lot more. An increase in the person exemption for income tax could give the working poor a lot more in terms of dollars in their pocket.

And was this your position when the Liberals wanted to get rid of the GST?

Get your facts right:

Contrary to popular belief, the Liberals did not promise to remove the tax altogether. Instead, the Red Book commits to replacing the GST “with a system that generates equivalent revenues, is fairer to consumers and to small business, minimizes disruption to small business, and promotes federal-provincial fiscal cooperation and harmonization.”

When I voted Liberal in 1993 I knew they would not get rid of the GST - if they had actually said they would get rid of in the red book I would have never voted for them. Same goes for the CPC - I was going to vote for them but this show of economic irresponsibility makes that much less likely. At this point in time is the only thing they have going for them is they are slightly less irresponsible than the Liberals with their billion dollar handouts in the last few weeks. This was a big disappointment - I was expecting much better from the CPC.

Why would the credit go down? That hasn't been mentioned by anyone.

Because the CPC will be desperate to find the cash to pay for the second percentage cut - reducing the credit will be a silent way to reduce the impact of the tax cut on gov't revenues.

[Biblio Bibuli]

"Take care of the pennies, and the dollars will take care of themselves"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Penny wise, pound foolish."

[sharkman]

"Penny wise, pound foolish."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How 'bout a stitch in time saves nine. The CPC strategy so far seems pretty reasoned in comparison to the Liberal strategy of opening up the purse strings and throwing money like they think they can buy an election.

[shoop]

What's the saying about a drunken sailor on a 72 hour pass?

Mission accomplished with this plan. It has dominated a news cycle, with inane criticisms coming from 'economists' and other 'leading figures'. December 1st draws to a close, in the Eastern time zone, as another successful day for the Conservatives!

How 'bout a stitch in time saves nine.  The CPC strategy so far seems pretty reasoned in comparison to the Liberal strategy of opening up the purse strings and throwing money like they think they can buy an election.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[lovecanada]

The credit might or might not go down, but even if it does, a reduction in the GST still helps the poorest people..RIGHT AT THE TILL. They will not have to wait to get that cheque.

Poor people buy inexpensive clothes and buy less frequently than middle class or the rich. They would save little on the GST reduction but the rich would save a lot more. An increase in the person exemption for income tax could give the working poor a lot more in terms of dollars in their pocket.

And was this your position when the Liberals wanted to get rid of the GST?

Get your facts right:

Contrary to popular belief, the Liberals did not promise to remove the tax altogether. Instead, the Red Book commits to replacing the GST “with a system that generates equivalent revenues, is fairer to consumers and to small business, minimizes disruption to small business, and promotes federal-provincial fiscal cooperation and harmonization.”

When I voted Liberal in 1993 I knew they would not get rid of the GST - if they had actually said they would get rid of in the red book I would have never voted for them. Same goes for the CPC - I was going to vote for them but this show of economic irresponsibility makes that much less likely. At this point in time is the only thing they have going for them is they are slightly less irresponsible than the Liberals with their billion dollar handouts in the last few weeks. This was a big disappointment - I was expecting much better from the CPC.

Why would the credit go down? That hasn't been mentioned by anyone.

Because the CPC will be desperate to find the cash to pay for the second percentage cut - reducing the credit will be a silent way to reduce the impact of the tax cut on gov't revenues.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let's see the GST reduction amounts to 4.5B but the Liberal promised cuts in income tax alone amount to 30B? What are they going to cut to make up for these lost revenues?

Why does noone mention that the rich/middle class are paying way more GST than the poor AND they also pay a luxury tax on some goods AND they also pay more in income taxes. Do they not deserve a break too? They are the ones that are filling the government coffers and keeping our economy vibrant with their buying. What happens when they stop buying let's say GM products?? Layoffs maybe?